"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2930751]Girls are vengeful little creatures. I make them leave me if I am done. I will cut their allowance due to business slump, SO discovery, whatever. Tell her you really love being with her and you hope she will be understanding. Keep cutting until she leaves -and she will. If she is willing to take you on for free, then you got a deal. Remember the term "going Postal?" These fired employees went back and shot people because they were so distraught at the perceived unfairness of being let go. Let them fire you.[/QUOTE]I use the same excuses as Fred. If the baby is into me, then I use the SO approach. She cares for me so she'll understand and want me to be safe. If she views me as an ATM, I use a business excuse.

You might be surprised what happens. One of my free baby's started out on the payroll, and she became a bit too demanding. I told her business was getting bad, and I needed to cut her off. Two years later, she's still in the rotation without being on payroll. Every other baby, however, has disappeared.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2931093]I use the same excuses as Fred. If the baby is into me, then I use the SO approach. She cares for me so she'll understand and want me to be safe. If she views me as an ATM, I use a business excuse.

You might be surprised what happens. One of my free baby's started out on the payroll, and she became a bit too demanding. I told her business was getting bad, and I needed to cut her off. Two years later, she's still in the rotation without being on payroll. Every other baby, however, has disappeared.[/QUOTE]A reduction in allowance is a good strategy overall, too. I've had it backfire on me a couple of times in the past, where it brought out kind of a nurturing side of them in the ones that were looking for something real (they started trying to demonstrate how understanding they can be, assuring me not to worry and they'll be there for me through hard times, etc which I assume is their way of presenting themselves as good GF or wife material), so I'd say this is a good strategy if you do like the idea of keeping them around but off the payroll. Free GF pussy is not a bad thing to have, it's just not my goal since I already have that at home. With me it's rarely about money, when I want to cut ties it typically means I don't want to see them or hear from them at all.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2931044]While there are still females on the planet that are not vindictive by nature, it is safe to assume that any girl you meet on an SD site has the potential to go sideways. The same daddy issues, sense of entitlement, lack of work ethic and other elements that land them on a website searching for an SD (combined with their age & maturity) are the same elements that make them highly prone to going sideways emotionally. No matter how sweet or stable they seem, it's best to assume that they WILL go off the rails under the right conditions. One of those conditions that occurs frequently is when you cut them loose.

Just as FM says, it's best to learn the art of making them want to avoid you. I have not mastered the art yet, but I can speak about what has worked for me and what hasn't. When it's time to cut ties, I try to actually start contacting them more frequently instead of the natural tendency to contact them less. Contacting them less frequently will just invoke the "pursuer" instinct in them, make them wonder what's wrong and gear their mind toward "scorned" mode. You want the opposite, for them to feel pursued. This makes them gravitate toward others (boyfriends their age, other SDs, or just their friends in general). Ideally you'd like them to feel a bit smothered or overwhelmed, but I find that to require an unrealistic amount of my time (especially texting them constantly).

Sometimes I will just lead conversation down some path that will inevitably lead to some sort argument. Sometimes it's enough, but sometimes it backfires. It's better to simply find what repels them. Sometimes it's anything that requires them to think logically, or explain themselves in a way that requires complete truth. Cite their contradictions, send them cut-and-paste evidence (or phone screenshots of what they said prior) to call them out on all the times they said something you knew wasn't true. A lot of them are repelled by truth -- they live a life that is based on how they want to perceive things rather than the truth, so when presented with conclusive evidence of truth, they are unable to process it any other way than by making themselves scarce, and this is what you want. You want THEM to decide it's over and the sugar is no longer worth the time and effort.

What about the girls that are honest, forthright, what-you-see-is-what-you-get people who deal with truth every day? Well if you ever meet one of those on an SD site, let me know. But if you do, you won't have to worry about the tactics mentioned above, because they are not the type that will go sideways on you, they are the type where you can say exactly what's on your mind and they will understand.

Then there are other, less fair ways I'm sure like telling her you just got diagnosed with an STD, or just disappearing, and so on but I do believe in karma and most of those tactics have some sort of potentially unpleasant side effect. If you want to break clean the above method works as well as anything I've found.[/QUOTE]Clearly all or some of the things mentioned before will work alone or in combination, but I don't find it that complicated. Over the years I've learned if you want to get rid of a woman just take a dump on something that is clearly very close to her and sit back and wait.

It can be Jesus / religion (really, laugh at a girl that believes a boat half the size of a football field held all the animals on the earth. Well, you get it). Or it can be the brother that got bounced out of the Air Force (that's an easy one). It can also be the father on disability that isn't disabled. Bottom line, just pick one that she loves and smear it. I've managed to get a chick to break up with me over lunch.

I just don't think it's necessary to to pull the Wyle E. Coyote thing to get it done. Just my opinion.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2931433]Clearly all or some of the things mentioned before will work alone or in combination, but I don't find it that complicated. Over the years I've learned if you want to get rid of a woman just take a dump on something that is clearly very close to her and sit back and wait.

It can be Jesus / religion (really, laugh at a girl that believes a boat half the size of a football field held all the animals on the earth. Well, you get it). Or it can be the brother that got bounced out of the Air Force (that's an easy one). It can also be the father on disability that isn't disabled. Bottom line, just pick one that she loves and smear it. I've managed to get a chick to break up with me over lunch.

I just don't think it's necessary to to pull the Wyle E. Coyote thing to get it done. Just my opinion.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]Each of our opinions are shaped by our own personal experiences. The one thing I've learned is that the dynamics of interpersonal relationships is complex and can vary greatly from individual to individual.

Back in the day when I was married, I couldn't figure out why every time I had a fling, and that fling had run its course and it was time to move to another, the girl always ended up either stalking me, hiring a detective to figure out how to contact my wife or whatever, or just spreading the word among people who knew me back in the days of the bar and niteclub scene that they were going to out me and fuck up my relationship with my wife. I couldn't figure out if I just had a knack for attracting psycho girls or what.

A buddy of mine who was also married had a completely opposite experience. First he rarely ever really turned them loose, he just didn't move from girl to girl as fast as I did. But, when he did break ties, he never had any stalker issues to deal with.

Then once, even after swearing he would never take any of my seconds or discards, I encouraged him to hook up with a girl that I had cast aside (they already knew each other through me, and she had once commented that she thought he was nice looking, so I told him he should go for it because she's not bad in bed). Well I dated her about 3 weeks. He dated her for like 1. 5 years. When I dumped her she was threatening to slap the fuck out of my new girl, threatening to contact my wife, etc. When he stopped seeing her there was no such drama. Same girl, just different interpersonal dynamic.

So, cutting girls free and being absolutely sure they aren't going to key my car or whatever later is not quite as easy as insulting something dear to her. In fact the times I've tried that, it sort of fuels the future fire but does not directly send them away. It just gives them one more thing to be pissed at me about after the shit really hits the fan.

But, as always, anyone's mileage on this stuff will vary. This is why I always describe my experiences as one man's opinion, and only that. Nobody should expect to experience the exact same life as anyone else, everyone has to find what works best for them. For those who have a history of low-drama reactions from women upon breakup, I envy you, but it's rarely a smooth process for me.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2931523]Each of our opinions are shaped by our own personal experiences. The one thing I've learned is that the dynamics of interpersonal relationships is complex and can vary greatly from individual to individual.

Back in the day when I was married, I couldn't figure out why every time I had a fling, and that fling had run its course and it was time to move to another, the girl always ended up either stalking me, hiring a detective to figure out how to contact my wife or whatever, or just spreading the word among people who knew me back in the days of the bar and niteclub scene that they were going to out me and fuck up my relationship with my wife. I couldn't figure out if I just had a knack for attracting psycho girls or what.

A buddy of mine who was also married had a completely opposite experience. First he rarely ever really turned them loose, he just didn't move from girl to girl as fast as I did. But, when he did break ties, he never had any stalker issues to deal with.

Then once, even after swearing he would never take any of my seconds or discards, I encouraged him to hook up with a girl that I had cast aside (they already knew each other through me, and she had once commented that she thought he was nice looking, so I told him he should go for it because she's not bad in bed). Well I dated her about 3 weeks. He dated her for like 1. 5 years. When I dumped her she was threatening to slap the fuck out of my new girl, threatening to contact my wife, etc. When he stopped seeing her there was no such drama. Same girl, just different interpersonal dynamic.

So, cutting girls free and being absolutely sure they aren't going to key my car or whatever later is not quite as easy as insulting something dear to her. In fact the times I've tried that, it sort of fuels the future fire but does not directly send them away. It just gives them one more thing to be pissed at me about after the shit really hits the fan.

But, as always, anyone's mileage on this stuff will vary. This is why I always describe my experiences as one man's opinion, and only that. Nobody should expect to experience the exact same life as anyone else, everyone has to find what works best for them. For those who have a history of low-drama reactions from women upon breakup, I envy you, but it's rarely a smooth process for me.[/QUOTE]For sure, our beliefs and expectations are shaped by our experience. Only twice have I experienced a breakup [B]that I initiated[/B] as a drama free experience. I also take your point that following my lead my lead to fuel on the fire and all, but I probably made it sound too simple.

At the risk of sounding misogynistic, the fact is that women tend to be linked in for some sort of long term vision. Once you toss something out there that is "unfixable" you "break" that vision. I mean, if you don't respect her deeply held beliefs, where can it possibly go? You think her family are lowlifes? In what scenario would you think they aren't?

You get the idea. Just create the truth that there's no overcoming the obstacle that lies in front of her. She will move on.

Anyway, as you said, our own experiences and all.

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2931546]For sure, our beliefs and expectations are shaped by our experience. Only twice have I experienced a breakup [B]that I initiated[/B] as a drama free experience. I also take your point that following my lead my lead to fuel on the fire and all, but I probably made it sound too simple.

At the risk of sounding misogynistic, the fact is that women tend to be linked in for some sort of long term vision. Once you toss something out there that is "unfixable" you "break" that vision. I mean, if you don't respect her deeply held beliefs, where can it possibly go? You think her family are lowlifes? In what scenario would you think they aren't?

You get the idea. Just create the truth that there's no overcoming the obstacle that lies in front of her. She will move on.
Anyway, as you said, our own experiences and all.[/QUOTE]It's not that I disagree with what you've said, in fact I could convey an anecdotal experience that completely confirms it. I once had a serious long-term girlfriend that might have been the best girlfriend I ever had: We got along so well, she was such a no-drama person which I need and appreciate, and to this day she remains my favorite fuck of all time. Not only was the sex itself top of the charts, but I never got tired of sex with her during our entire relationship, something I've never experienced with anyone else before or since (including current girlfriend). She's kind of the gold standard for fucking that I compare all other women to. But, she was religious, and would not miss Sunday church if her life depended on it. I'm about as far from a follower of organized religion as you can get, I wouldn't step foot in the place with her not even once and I made it clear I never would. I never asked her to give up her faith, but I let her know I would never join it, ultimately the reason the relationship ended. So it's exactly what you are saying, I basically disrespected that which is most important to her and it gave her the strength to walk. I have no regrets and I'm sure she doesn't either, it was a drama-free split.

But she wasn't an SB, and I'm pretty sure wouldn't be caught dead on an SB site as she never had that sense of entitlement, nor ever asked for financial help from me. No daddy issues or sense of entitlement, she was hot enough to be a 10 on the SB charts but wasn't of that ilk -- she earned her own keep in life.

The methods I described for "getting myself fired" from SBs are only that -- methods that should only be used on SBs. I've never come close to an emotional attachment with an SB so I don't think it's fair if they get attached to me. The worst they could do to me is flake on a date (not show up), go dark or disappear, etc. And if they do it's all fair in the bowl. The way I see it, if I choose to I should be able to do the same without fear of some vendetta.

So the advice I was giving here is really just vendetta-avoidance for those who need it. Not everyone will. Hoya is in a position where his divorced status will designate him as boyfriend / hubby material for a lot of these girls, and some of them will get pissed if they don't get what they want. At the same time not having the threat of being outed as a cheating husband works to his advantage as well, he simply has less to lose. A keymark down the side of the car can be repaired.

That story actually reminds me of my worst car-damage encounter. I actually had a situation where the shouting turned into her getting physical (in a public parking lot) and I didn't want to be arrested on some sort of domestic charge so I got in my car to leave. After I closed the driver side door, this little Latina, all of about a slim 5'2 literally punched my car door once, then kicked it before I could back out and get away. Given her size, the fist-dent was rather impressive, and the boot-imprint was severe enough that it was beyond what a typical paintless dent repair person could handle. As they say, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Better to let them fire you.

I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2929932]You can PM me.

Stark.[/QUOTE]I have received strange info from Daisy. I also met with Veronica SA. Is that who you're talking about? We had a great visit, all was going smoothly, then she went totally dark. Would love to know the deal. PM me if you have Intel.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]My first instinct was to say yes why not, but if the wife visits you there at all (even planned and announced) then I probably would say risk level too high--because you can never control whether SBs show up unannounced during a planned wifey visit. Unless it's the kind of place where guests need specific approval to make it past the doorman, I probably wouldn't do it, personally, at least not regularly. But even still you don't want someone from security knocking on your door when the wife is there saying there's some young lady that insists she's having your baby, etc.

If the wife literally never visits there and you're sure she never will, then no reason I can see not to.

If you decide to bring your SB back to your place, you have more stones than me. I would never do it. The cost of hotels is high. The cost of divorce is higher.

If I were single and had a long term SB that was like a SO, than maybe (think hoyasvnfgr), but letting a SB know where you live is inviting trouble, in my humble opinion.

For example, your wife gives you the heads up that she's coming, so you don't schedule anything with your SB, but that makes your SB mad. The SB shows up the same day as your wife and makes a scene. Now your sugar lifestyle is exposed.

Hotels are the way to go for SDs with SOs. Alternatively rent a spot specifically for the bowl.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]

I had an apartment in another city for 2 years and it was very nice. Babies were more at ease and I routinely had them sleep over. My wife visited twice but I traveled so much a baby had no idea when I was home or not. It was way better than hotels. One baby worked nites and I would just leave the door open. Generally woke up with her lips wrapped around my cock. Very nice.

Never had any problem. But thought about it.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]

Definitely nice not to deal with hotels. But having an apartment is costly as well.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2932907]I had an apartment in another city for 2 years and it was very nice. Babies were more at ease and I routinely had them sleep over. My wife visited twice but I traveled so much a baby had no idea when I was home or not. It was way better than hotels. One baby worked nites and I would just leave the door open. Generally woke up with her lips wrapped around my cock. Very nice.

Never had any problem. But thought about it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JWHere;2932161]I have received strange info from Daisy. I also met with Veronica SA. Is that who you're talking about? We had a great visit, all was going smoothly, then she went totally dark. Would love to know the deal. PM me if you have Intel.[/QUOTE]Not sure she was VeronicaSA. But definitely went by Veronica. She has deactivated her account. This girl's real name is Haley. She's brunette spinner, very tan, who used to dance at Pure Pleasure (she's been discussed on other forums before, so she is really more UTR). She's hot as balls, a great lay, and laid back personality. She is real college student and I really like her. But last time I saw her I caught her trying to lift one of the room keys while I was cleaning up in the bathroom. Guess she planned on coming back later. To do who knows what. I called her on it. She came clean, but then went dark. I also found a social media account where she discusses her shoplifting habit. Recently I think she reconciled with her loser boyfriend. Oh well. I will miss banging her.

Stay Safe.

Stark.

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