"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]I would have had to ask her why, if she wants only fun and not looking for financial aid, would she then try to qualify someone based on how much they spend on something petty like accessories (as opposed to a more meaningful and difficult-to-fake like their car)? She's already contradicting herself.

I've shown up to M&G's in sneakers before, but not like sneakers I've been wearing all day or have mud and grass stains on them like I've been doing yardwork or anything. If there's a chance the date will extend somewhere like a nightclub I would never do that, because I don't want to get shot down on dress code at the door, but in terms of what the girl thinks of me, one of the best aphrodisiacs on the planet for a female is an alpha male that just doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of him. Meaning, whatever you wear should be worn with the attitude that you couldn't care less what anyone thinks about your wardrobe, you do things your way and everyone else can go fuck themselves. THAT will make her hornier than any other factor combined. Doesn't mean you should show up looking shabby (and above all, good hygiene is critical), but if for one moment you give off the vibe that you're working to impress her, you're already behind in the game. You want to show up with the attitude that she needs to win YOUR attention. She should be focusing on whether she's good enough for you rather than vice versa.

I just mention this because sometimes they play these games where they want to see if they can get a cause and effect reaction from you, like if you'll show up with better shoes or a watch next time it's an indication you're their puppet, it's possible that's what she's doing. Or maybe she just has a fixation about accessories or something. Unless sneakers were inappropriate for the location I really wouldn't worry about it. No, it's not the norm for them to judge you by your watch or your shoes -- they notice a lot of things but neither of those are deal breakers. Wear whatever looks good on you and is appropriate to the event.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2926189]I would have had to ask her why, if she wants only fun and not looking for financial aid, would she then try to qualify someone based on how much they spend on something petty like accessories (as opposed to a more meaningful and difficult-to-fake like their car)? She's already contradicting herself.

I've shown up to M&G's in sneakers before, but not like sneakers I've been wearing all day or have mud and grass stains on them like I've been doing yardwork or anything. If there's a chance the date will extend somewhere like a nightclub I would never do that, because I don't want to get shot down on dress code at the door, but in terms of what the girl thinks of me, one of the best aphrodisiacs on the planet for a female is an alpha male that just doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of him. Meaning, whatever you wear should be worn with the attitude that you couldn't care less what anyone thinks about your wardrobe, you do things your way and everyone else can go fuck themselves. THAT will make her hornier than any other factor combined. Doesn't mean you should show up looking shabby (and above all, good hygiene is critical), but if for one moment you give off the vibe that you're working to impress her, you're already behind in the game. You want to show up with the attitude that she needs to win YOUR attention. She should be focusing on whether she's good enough for you rather than vice versa.

I just mention this because sometimes they play these games where they want to see if they can get a cause and effect reaction from you, like if you'll show up with better shoes or a watch next time it's an indication you're their puppet, it's possible that's what she's doing. Or maybe she just has a fixation about accessories or something. Unless sneakers were inappropriate for the location I really wouldn't worry about it. No, it's not the norm for them to judge you by your watch or your shoes -- they notice a lot of things but neither of those are deal breakers. Wear whatever looks good on you and is appropriate to the event.[/QUOTE]It's actually something ALL or most women do in real life and not just in the SB / SD world. All women want to feel protected and that means physically and financially.

Even the ones you meet in the civi world. A lot of my female friends tell me that they do look at how a guy dresses for many reasons.

1. To see if he is serious about the date. They want to see if they took the time to "dress up". Lets face it guys, women don't want to be out with a guy they think just.

Got out of bed or has on a stained shirt.

2. Yes they also try to determine if they have money. However, it has to be more obvious like if they are wearing cuff links, fancy watch, good clothes. Now I don't know if.

Any of them can pick out a real vs. Fake rolex. But if they are looking at that then they are just shallow gold digging ******. Yes even in real life.

3. The way a guy dresses can also give a clue to see if they may match. If the guy likes to be in t-shirts and shorts and the girl likes to get dressed up then maybe it may not.

Be a match. I once met a girl off of match for dinner and I came right from work so I was dressed in business casual. She did make a mention as to how she likes to dress.

Down. Clearly she thought business casual was too fancy. Well that tells me something about her.

The way a guy dresses does say a lot about the man and women do pay attention to that. I don't think it will determine the relationship but it does make an impact.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2926225] The way a guy dresses does say a lot about the man and women do pay attention to that. I don't think it will determine the relationship but it does make an impact.[/QUOTE]Yes they do notice and it does have an impact, but they notice confidence more.

Given a choice between a guy in a $1500 suit that has "I sure hope you like me" written all over him and a guy that shows up in stylish casual that exudes confidence, the latter will win every time.

All things being equal? Displays of status are a good thing. But a smart woman will look at your car and your house, not your watch and your shoes which are easy to fake. The others aren't so smart, and if you're a player you'll end up with whatever you want from them no matter what.

I guess what I'm saying is don't overspend on a watch and shoes thinking it will make a big difference with SBs. These girls wouldn't be able to spot a fake Rolex and they won't be able to tell a $100 pair of shoes from a $1 k pair unless they see the brand tag (which is rarely on the outside).

And even if they do identify you as a high-dollar item, it's going to amplify their game as a high-dollar-pussy, so it will only cost you more.

I'd rather run game and get them to fuck me because they want to fuck me, not what's on my wrist or feet.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]I wonder what she'd think of all the guys who do not care to wear a watch, but rather carry a cellphone. I have heard the shoes thing before from strippers.

The issue I see with my SB's is that we are at different places in life. These SB's are all about brands and showing off those brands. They will pay 1,200 dollars for a Louis Vuitton bag just for the name. After you've grown old, you could care less what people think of you. I buy things that are practical. I could easily afford a Lamborghini, but much rather drive a five year old Expedition. In the eyes of some of these GPS bitches, I must be broke.

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2926870]I wonder what she'd think of all the guys who do not care to wear a watch, but rather carry a cellphone. I have heard the shoes thing before from strippers.

The issue I see with my SB's is that we are at different places in life. These SB's are all about brands and showing off those brands. They will pay 1,200 dollars for a Louis Vuitton bag just for the name. After you've grown old, you could care less what people think of you. I buy things that are practical. I could easily afford a Lamborghini, but much rather drive a five year old Expedition. In the eyes of some of these GPS bitches, I must be broke.[/QUOTE]No watch for me. I sit in front of a computer all day and have my phone other times. I usually go straight from work to my dinner date with casual wear from Walmart. Even more frugal is that I drive a Chevy Cobalt. But I am meeting up with women who think $200 is fine for dinner and a trip to the FC. I prefer to present myself as a thrifty old guy. Then when I surprise them with a gift, they seem appreciative.

My general rule of thumb is that if you want to spend money on nice things because you like them, or you're a connoisseur of expensive watches or shoes or whatever, you're a lover of Lamborghinis, then by all means indulge if it makes you happy. What I would never recommend to anyone is spending money on things that you wouldn't otherwise buy, just for the sole purpose of trying to impress women -- if you try to impress them by external displays of success, they read it as a sign of trying to compensate for other insecurities. Makes you a bleeding fish among sharks.

Personally I tend to like nice things, like cars. But I didn't buy a nice car to impress ladies, honestly maybe only half of them ever see what I drive (sometimes I'll schedule dinner within walking distance to wherever I'm staying, or my car is tucked away in a parking deck somewhere). And the ones that do just bug me to let them drive it, so I'd rather keep it out of their sight as much as possible.

I once knew a girl that told me about a neighbor she used to look out the window and lust after. She said he was constantly in his driveway cleaning his motorcycle, always polishing it, etc. She said he wasn't all that cute and the motorcycle was nothing spectacular, she said what was attractive was just watching how passionate he was about something. So yeah, if you drop a fat dime on a nice yacht, and she can tell you have a passion for the water and didn't just buy it to impress women, she will probably be impressed by the boat. More than that she will probably just want pics of herself on the boat to post to Facebook to show off for her friends, effectively taking advantage of the backdrop. LOL.

My thoughts are as long as the sb is getting her agreed on arrangement she could care less what you have or show up in. If you show up in expensive clothes and cars and trying to put them on a pb&jelly arrangement then to most your a dick, vain, arrogant who thinks your better than them. Then these same guys classify them as GPS. All these girls want is a good arrangement that's fair and to be treated with respect. The arrangement is all that matters to most because after its all said and done you are paying them. Most doesn't even like you and put on a good show because you are paying well. When you think you have game cut the sugar off and see how long they hang. There are always exceptions to everything but to most as long as they feel that the arrangement is good for them they will tolerate you.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2926258]Yes they do notice and it does have an impact, but they notice confidence more.

Given a choice between a guy in a $1500 suit that has "I sure hope you like me" written all over him and a guy that shows up in stylish casual that exudes confidence, the latter will win every time.

[/QUOTE]There's nothing wrong with dressing well. I have the suits, watches, and shoes. Some times I wear them, and some times I don't. Confidence is the key, but looking the part is also. First impressions are lasting.

I had a friend in SF about a decade ago that was a fashionista. I asked her on a date one night what she looked at on a guy during the first date. Her answer was interesting. She mentioned shoes, general level of dress, and then she said his nails. She said that she could tell how a guy would take care of her based on how he took care of his nails. I thought it was rubbish, but I've since heard from other women about dates with guys with long dirty nails. Maybe she was on to something.

Another baby in the rotation that just wants romance and a nice shag - 24 bisexual latina with curves. Lunch one day last week followed by three hours in the FC. Total cost (not including room) $40 for lunch.

Hopefully. Everyone is having this sort of luck!

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927473]There's nothing wrong with dressing well. [/QUOTE]Agreed, I was just saying that the definition of "dressing well" is to dress appropriately for the occasion, and more importantly wear what looks good on you. I once had a buddy that let a female dictate his wardrobe for him. He gave her a budget of a few thousand and a list of his sizes to go shopping for him in NYC. Every single item she brought back looked rediculous on him, he sent most of it back and I don't think wore any of it. None of it conicided well with his character or personality. Just because its brand name doesn't mean it looks good on everyone.

The main point I was making to Hoya is that it seemed like this girl was pushing his buttons by saying she "judged his qualifications" by his watch and shoes. It sounds like she was negging him because she didn't like his sneakers, and this was coming from someone who was telling him she doesn't need sugar. Much bigger story behind my post than just clothes and watches. It's never a good idea to show up looking like a bum.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927473]
I had a friend in SF about a decade ago that was a fashionista. I asked her on a date one night what she looked at on a guy during the first date. Her answer was interesting. She mentioned shoes, general level of dress, and then she said his nails. She said that she could tell how a guy would take care of her based on how he took care of his nails. I thought it was rubbish, but I've since heard from other women about dates with guys with long dirty nails. Maybe she was on to something.[/QUOTE]The nails thing is a whole different story, that comes under the category of grooming / hygiene and like I said this always needs to be top notch, its not a matter of compensating for insecurities or anything like that. Women will definitely look at your fingernails, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it -- those fingers might end up in her cooch and ass later on.

They don't want to see hangnails and rough or hard skin on the sides of your fingers -- think about it, it would be painful, and be annoying for them during foreplay. Same goes for dirty / discolored nails, that's a good way to scare them off. I have a white collar career, but my hands are prone to getting calluses from working out at the gym (even with gloves on). A callus remover and filing off rough skin is about the best solution for that. Even women who say they like their men rugged don't want crusty hands feeling them up. The softer the better, and it sometimes takes work to get them there. I always do a last minute hangnail check before a date. As far as having perfectly oiled cuticles or anything like that, that may be overkill if not a little too metrosexual - to the point of being prissy / feminine / gay, which is a turn off for most women. So I don't think they are expecting a professional manicure, just nice and clean nails that demonstrate the guy takes care of his body. If a guy is a schlub that doesn't exercise and eat well, but shows up with perfectly manicured nails, he is kind of defeating the purpose of the well-kept nails.

Nooo. Nothing like that.

They are all greedy over here. Dang.

Enjoy.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927478]Another baby in the rotation that just wants romance and a nice shag - 24 bisexual latina with curves. Lunch one day last week followed by three hours in the FC. Total cost (not including room) $40 for lunch.

Hopefully. Everyone is having this sort of luck![/QUOTE]

Hoya. You're meeting is typical of what most sbs and ladies in general look for. You're correct, these days, most younger sbs and younger women in general can't tell the difference between a timex and tag heur. But they're not in the bowl (more often than not at least) to find their future husband. They play in the bowl because they are looking for a guy that will drop money on them.

I've found that women in general are more complex than men. Younger girls aren't generally looking for solid reliable men who invest their money wisely in solid real estate and avoid spending on frivolous things. They are looking for guys who will drop $300 on a dinner at a trendy restaurant so that they can brag to their friends. Ideally, that same guy will be so loaded with cash that he will also have a waterfront vacation home as well.

We all know that men who have the ability to afford both are few and far between. Given a choice though, the average young woman will choose the guy who is willing to drop money on frivolous items because it shows that the guy will be willing to spend money on her.

Later in life though, these same girls will evolve to desire a guy that spends money on things like a nice house and investments, because at that point they will desire security over fun.

So yes, if you're looking to have sex with a young lady, best to wear nice clothes and have the latest expensive items that depreciate in value quickly (e. G. Nice cars, newest phones, etc.). These girls expect to be taken to nice hotels for the FC, so most won't give a rats ass if you live in a one room shack or a mansion, so long as you're driving a Porshe, have a look that compliments them well on the pictures they post on their Twitter feed, and are taking them to the four seasons for the FC sessions.

Eventually they will want to settle down though and make babies, and then they will think that they can convince that same guy to spend the money they were once dropping on Rolex watches and expensive cars, on a nice house in a good school district.

But at the end of the day, bike rider put it best. A guy wearing a $15,000 armani tailored suit doesn't hold a candle to a guy who is casually dressed in something tasteful and who exudes real confidence.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]

Based on bike riders posts, I get the impression that he plays in some of the same regions that we play. I think I remember him posting that he plays, at least in part, in the ny market. That is a city that I have yet to have much success in.

My educated guess is that the force is strong with this Jedi Knight.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2927554]Nooo. Nothing like that.

They are all greedy over here. Dang.
Enjoy.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2927905]Based on bike riders posts, I get the impression that he plays in some of the same regions that we play. I think I remember him posting that he plays, at least in part, in the ny market. That is a city that I have yet to have much success in.

My educated guess is that the force is strong with this Jedi Knight.[/QUOTE]LOL. Just an average lucky padawan.

I some times think the clueless brothers on SA (none from this board, of course, since you've already RTFM) are my biggest allies. I've an upcoming date with a young lady that only wants small gifts so she can hit the spa, or get a mani. She texted me while she was on her first date from SA. Her first message was "OMG save me I'm on a date with a moron". The gentleman had presented himself as a man of means. Yet, he asked the lady to pick him up from a sketchy strip mall. While in the car, he asks if she'll drive to a park (it was pouring rain) for "privacy". She refuses, and they hit Fridays. It went down hill from there. All I could think of was. I appreciate the prep-work mate!

Learning points from the moron: #1 Don't claim to be something if you aren't, or can't fake incredibly well. The moron failed on this from his lack of transportation, trying to steer his date towards car sex, and ending up at Fridays. #2 Don't bring up sex, and especially don't try for it until you've built up some chemistry and attraction. I'll usually bring up sex obliquely during a conversation. This is non-threatening to your date / POT. She'll either ignore it in which case you've a lot more work to do, or she'll run with it. This allows your date / POT to bring up the topic! In fact, I had one date where the discussion was very explicit. My date stops at one point and says "I can't believe we're talking about this. We should stop! I looked at her and said "you brought it up". She laughed. Tossed her hair back, and continued speaking explicitly. Another good response would have been "and yet you seem to like it so much!" The point here is I didn't apologize. Some guys are concerned that they've offended the girl, and apologize. This will backfire on you every time. Instead, I put it back on her and challenged her. Women don't want to be with a weak guy. They also don't want to be with a jerk. There's a fine line between confidence and being a jerk. The key is to get as close to the line as you can and not cross it.

I love NY, and it is honestly the easiest city for me. I can easily find overnight's for $300 or less with non-UTRs. I'm not fishing there right now as I've more than I can handle currently (all freebees except for one, but she's already said I don't have to help her much any more). PM me, and I'll forward the intel I have that is still accurate.