"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2910797]
The problem with the newfound efficiency is that it is also drawing escorts / UTRs and guys who want that sort of thing, jeopardizing the future of these sites. A year ago, most of the chatter around the SB / SD scene was taking place here in the Richmond forum, and maybe one or two other forums on USASG. Now, every day when I look at the front page I see SD discussions taking place in dozens of different city forums, sometimes with "sugar babies" in the title, sometimes with SA in the title, etc. Often times what's actually being discussed in those threads has nothing to do with SBs at all, it's just guys swapping info about UTR escorts, and about back page girls that are polluting the scene, because they've discovered that with a bit of acting skill they can get paid more, choose their customers, and fuck less often for same income.

I believe it's only a matter of time before the influx of escorts and johns who are using SD sites as an escort alternative results in legal attention that causes problems for SA and the like.

[/QUOTE]Exactly! Seems I recall some discussion on the concept of what is a SD-SB relationship and plenty jumped on the bandwagon of saying it was cool to date a girl once and toss her aside. As they say a stiff one has no brains. Guess in the long run that "style" will diminish the pool they are playing in.

Agree with JL, but the reality for most of us is -freestyling won't work. #1) I have an SO and don't have the work lifestyle to go to bars and actually court 2) While I am attractive in all aspects do not have the previous experience bar hopping. 3) do not have the inclination or freedom to go to Strip clubs and 4) have a high profile job and local presence and can't get the rep of hitting on young girls in coffee shops, etc. I know I speak for many of us here. So if the Sugar sites go down I will probably have to give up my favorite hobby. Having said that, Vice is all over CL and BP, but they are still operating, so I am sure that Sugar sites will continue to exist and function. Here's the thing. Stings happen in situations where LE can control the scene -right? They are not going to send an agent out on a freestyle date to a location that they are not supporting and do not have backup. So a solo date with a Pot where a deal is made would be too risky. As always, don't be a Dodo and mention sex and money in the same sitting. Also control the M&G as well as the FC site. If the Pot already has a hotel room be a little suspiscious.

I know there are LE Mongers who enjoy the same thing that we all do. They have the benefit of being in the know about department stings I would guess, but there are multiple agencies involved so maybe it isn't that easy. I would like to hear from them here -or maybe if someone has LE friends who can actually opine on this topic from an inside level.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2911521]Agree with JL, but the reality for most of us is -freestyling won't work. #1) I have an SO and don't have the work lifestyle to go to bars and actually court 2) While I am attractive in all aspects do not have the previous experience bar hopping. 3) do not have the inclination or freedom to go to Strip clubs and 4) have a high profile job and local presence and can't get the rep of hitting on young girls in coffee shops, etc. I know I speak for many of us here. So if the Sugar sites go down I will probably have to give up my favorite hobby. Having said that, Vice is all over CL and BP, but they are still operating, so I am sure that Sugar sites will continue to exist and function. Here's the thing. Stings happen in situations where LE can control the scene -right? They are not going to send an agent out on a freestyle date to a location that they are not supporting and do not have backup. So a solo date with a Pot where a deal is made would be too risky. As always, don't be a Dodo and mention sex and money in the same sitting. Also control the M&G as well as the FC site. If the Pot already has a hotel room be a little suspiscious.[/QUOTE]Admittedly it can be harder if you have an SO, and particularly risky if you're doing it close to home (but that's true of any level of cheating, really).

I really wasn't necessarily talking about bar hopping or even strip clubs. Strip clubs are for takeout, and generally not really for SBs (although flipping one who doesn't do takeout into an SB can be fun).

I was referring to simply not relying on SD websites to do what has been done since the beginning of time. A single guy in his 30's can score SBs who don't even know they are SBs all day long on Match, Tinder, POF, etc. When your game is good, you can find POTs anywhere you look. There are young ladies who "need help" everywhere. It's kind of a shame to see some guys building a dependency on SA and the like, and forgoing the opportunity to polish their game in a way that will benefit them if the SD world should collapse.

I think for the most part, if married guys had to stop this hobby tomorrow, they would simply go back to back page or escorts and be no worse for wear, so that particular audience probably has less to worry about.

I've talked about this in great depth before, but when I speak of LE attention I'm not speaking about individual stings, I doubt that's ever going to happen to the SD sting. I really don't want to become a broken record here and reiterate things that I wrote volumes about many months back, but the biggest threat to the likes of SA would be if the banks decide to stop doing business with them and make it hard to process credit cards. Or, as I said in a recent message, all it would take is some negative media attention to attach a hooker-stigma to the SD scene that would make all but the hardened escorts stay away. So once again, forget about regional stings. I'm talking about something on a much bigger scale, like what happened to Napster and music sharing.

There was a recent discussion on the Tampa strip club forum about a class action lawsuit brought against a prominent strip club from three former dancers, and they are going after millions in back payment against the owners for a number of things ranging from misclassification of employees as independent contractors, to snagging modeling photos from their facebook pages without their permission. I don't see that particular case winning in court based on what I know about it, but even more frivolous lawsuits than that have been won against Florida strip clubs, and when the courts start swinging in one direction, it can result in a lot of strip clubs closing shop. So, this is what I mean when I discuss how legal attention can result in a threat to the hobby -- if the courts start siding with the girls that they are employees and not independents, it could have widespread impact on whether or not strip clubs continue to exist in this country at all.

The same sort of thing could happen to the SD sites. Forget about individual LE stings, vice cops, etc. I don't see them as large scale threats, maybe isolated cases but certainly not a part of the big shutdown threat.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2911512]Exactly! Seems I recall some discussion on the concept of what is a SD-SB relationship and plenty jumped on the bandwagon of saying it was cool to date a girl once and toss her aside. As they say a stiff one has no brains. Guess in the long run that "style" will diminish the pool they are playing in.[/QUOTE]I have a slightly different take on one night stands than I do the escort-posing-as-SB problem, at least I see it as a completely different issue. To me, one night stands have always been a part of dating. Most of these girls on the SD sites already have boyfriends anyway, and even though yes they sometimes do get emotionally attached, I find that rarely happens after a single date. They are used to casual hookups and one-nighters, and fucking carpe diem style.

True that many of them would like something ongoing and reliable, but that same crowd is as flaky as they are hopeful. They disappear and go dark just like we do.

My golden rule is just not to mislead anyone, don't make promises I have no intention of keeping, etc. I am usually traveling when I bang an SB, so I tell her I will contact her when I'm going to be in town again. They are usually like "sure, anytime". Sometimes they hint they want more, want to visit me at home, sometimes send text or mail asking when I will see them again, but it's nothing they will shed a tear over.

I suppose if anyone ends up mistreated (or even feeling mistreated), it's going to leave a bad impression on them, but I haven't really run into that kind of situation yet.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2911597]
My golden rule is just not to mislead anyone, don't make promises I have no intention of keeping, etc. I am usually traveling when I bang an SB, so I tell her I will contact her when I'm going to be in town again. They are usually like "sure, anytime". Sometimes they hint they want more, want to visit me at home, sometimes send text or mail asking when I will see them again, but it's nothing they will shed a tear over.

I suppose if anyone ends up mistreated (or even feeling mistreated), it's going to leave a bad impression on them, but I haven't really run into that kind of situation yet.[/QUOTE]I, too, and a traveling SD, rarely playing on my home field. While it may be harder to find an SB comfortable with a one-and-done scenario, I have never had a problem finding plenty of fine, affordable candidates, for my style of fun and all of whom have been up for a repeat performance should I wander that way again and not found a different options.

Sometimes it takes a little work to get them to commit to that which they are already comfortable in a more traditional hook up scenario. A) I'll usually mention a "premium" for the one-time aspect of the affair (7-11 charges more for smaller sizes and mere convenience) vs. Simply taking the allowance expectation, diving by 4 for allowance per week and then by 1. 5 or 2 for frequency of meeting. Fortunately for me, my suppliers and friends in business have a steady supply of things SBs love (spa and restaurant gift cards, beauty products etc) so it is a no-cash out of pocket premium. $500 in cash, $250 in prizes for an overnight play date. B) it never hurts to use a little humor to diffuse the transactional nature of a hook up -- and I apologize in advance for the many who have already read this from me -- but to paraphrase Dennis Miller's justification for Monica blowing Bill. -think of all the zeros and jerks you will blow or sleep with over the course of your dating life and having nothing to show for the experience other than some mental scars. If you have the chance to have a nice evening with a reasonably good looking guy, have great sex and walk away with your groceries for the month, I say Go For It! YOu can't end up any worse off than your next mistake. ".

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2911521]Agree with JL, but the reality for most of us is -freestyling won't work. #1) I have an SO and don't have the work lifestyle to go to bars and actually court 2) While I am attractive in all aspects do not have the previous experience bar hopping. 3) do not have the inclination or freedom to go to Strip clubs and 4) have a high profile job and local presence and can't get the rep of hitting on young girls in coffee shops, etc. I know I speak for many of us here. So if the Sugar sites go down I will probably have to give up my favorite hobby. Having said that, Vice is all over CL and BP, but they are still operating, so I am sure that Sugar sites will continue to exist and function. Here's the thing. Stings happen in situations where LE can control the scene -right? They are not going to send an agent out on a freestyle date to a location that they are not supporting and do not have backup. So a solo date with a Pot where a deal is made would be too risky. As always, don't be a Dodo and mention sex and money in the same sitting. Also control the M&G as well as the FC site. If the Pot already has a hotel room be a little suspiscious.[/QUOTE]+1 - I had a POT once that wanted me to come straight to her hotel room in an area know for stings. I passed. I also normally don't do a FC on the first date unless things are moving very fast. It's unlikely LE is going to wait.

Also, SD sites won't disappear. They'll just become an interactive BP. Sadly, that's kind of happening now and scaring some of the girls away after a few days.

SD sites disappear? Yeah. And the sky is falling. Your post is 100% on point. My experience has been that if you don't catch them within the first few weeks of signing up, a few things will happen: 1. They will leave the site, or never log in again, after the first 100 guys proposition them like they would a woman off backpage; 2. If they meet a guy that convinces them to get to the FC, then if the sugar relationship doesn't last (e. G. Once and done, the pay per date doesn't turn into a monthly allowance, etc,) then they leave the site or become utr, or 3. Meet a guy who gives into all their demands and turns them Gps.

It's easy to figure out which new profiles are utr / backpage girls masquerading as a baby. After that, its all about the game.

Just set your search filter to search for newest profiles. If you play the game long enough, it becomes easy.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2912191]+1 - I had a POT once that wanted me to come straight to her hotel room in an area know for stings. I passed. I also normally don't do a FC on the first date unless things are moving very fast. It's unlikely LE is going to wait.

Also, SD sites won't disappear. They'll just become an interactive BP. Sadly, that's kind of happening now and scaring some of the girls away after a few days.[/QUOTE]

FM, your post is on point. With limited resources, why would any entity waste resources focusing on the bowl when BP and CL are rampant. If an entity was concerned about the sex trade, there are much easier targets.

And the simple reality of it is, even if an entity decided to focus on the sugar world, any SD who got caught, was someone that was treating it like BP or CL.

Being afraid of getting stung in the bowl is like being afraid of getting hit by a car when you cross the street. If you take some common sense precautions, like looking both ways, its not likely to happen.

While it might benefit certain SDs to spread fear about the potential for a sting or LE action in the bowl to reduce the competition because they lack the skills to close, remember to take advice from a Monger forum with a grain of salt.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2911521]Agree with JL, but the reality for most of us is -freestyling won't work. #1) I have an SO and don't have the work lifestyle to go to bars and actually court 2) While I am attractive in all aspects do not have the previous experience bar hopping. 3) do not have the inclination or freedom to go to Strip clubs and 4) have a high profile job and local presence and can't get the rep of hitting on young girls in coffee shops, etc. I know I speak for many of us here. So if the Sugar sites go down I will probably have to give up my favorite hobby. Having said that, Vice is all over CL and BP, but they are still operating, so I am sure that Sugar sites will continue to exist and function. Here's the thing. Stings happen in situations where LE can control the scene -right? They are not going to send an agent out on a freestyle date to a location that they are not supporting and do not have backup. So a solo date with a Pot where a deal is mde would be too risky. As always, don't be a Dodo and mention sex and money in the same sitting. Also control the M&G as well as the FC site. If the Pot already has a hotel room be a little suspiscious.[/QUOTE]

Got this message today from a girl with a real shitty attitude.

"Well I start out my arrangements by getting to know each other, usually a few dinners or events, before anything intimate is on the table. I've previously been paid between 500-1000 per meeting or 2000-4000 if paid per month".

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;2913077]Got this message today from a girl with a real shitty attitude.

"Well I start out my arrangements by getting to know each other, usually a few dinners or events, before anything intimate is on the table. I've previously been paid between 500-1000 per meeting or 2000-4000 if paid per month".[/QUOTE]I got this from one yesterday: "I treat my body like a temple, and don't become intimate with just anyone. It is on the table but I like to be fully comfortable with the person before taking it to that level, which can take on average 1. 5-2 months. ".

I have gone both ways. Quick and drawn-out. One of my best SBs required 2 dates over 8 weeks before the FC. Then she was spectacular. The latest. A wonderful 25 yo. Has taken 3 dates. All drinks in a bar. Before the FC. Over a 3 month period. Wonderful time and thrilled with the allowance (of course for now. LOL). I think the less they lean to UTR the longer it may take for the FC.

I agree. Some of my best experiences have been with girls that were very cautious about the bowl. It took several dates over time to get them to the FC. I never pay for their time, but I do pay for all food and drinks for the date. I make sure they understand there is no allowance until the panties hit the floor, but give them time to get comfortable with the idea.

Doesn't always work, but I enjoy the chase as much as the catch.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2913898]I have gone both ways. Quick and drawn-out. One of my best SBs required 2 dates over 8 weeks before the FC. Then she was spectacular. The latest. A wonderful 25 yo. Has taken 3 dates. All drinks in a bar. Before the FC. Over a 3 month period. Wonderful time and thrilled with the allowance (of course for now. LOL). I think the less they lean to UTR the longer it may take for the FC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Graham111;2913898]I have gone both ways. Quick and drawn-out. One of my best SBs required 2 dates over 8 weeks before the FC. Then she was spectacular. The latest. A wonderful 25 yo. Has taken 3 dates. All drinks in a bar. Before the FC. Over a 3 month period. Wonderful time and thrilled with the allowance (of course for now. LOL). I think the less they lean to UTR the longer it may take for the FC.[/QUOTE]I kind of admire anyone with this level of patience. I never had that kind of patience, but I also think my lack of it is part of what motivated me to up my game to the point where I can very quickly assess them sexually. I'm also thankful for that because about 1 out of 30 is a dud in bed or has weird restrictions or lack of skills in a certain area -- I'd hate to spend two months plus cash to find out she's a dead fish in bed.

Some SBs have told me after the FC visit things to the effect of "I usually don't have sex on the first date", etc. But of course every woman wants to present themselves as a saint so I never know what to believe. It's not like I'm going to respect them any less for solving my immediate dilemma. In fact, quite the opposite. The one and only time that an SB M&G ever did has not resulted in a successful trip the FC after dinner, the POT said she wanted to end our nighttime date early after a couple of drinks at a bar, and reschedule our date for the next day when her energy levels were better. I said thanks but no thanks -- it was partially lack of patience on my part but also because I had another M&G scheduled for the next day. I was also a little pissed that I had let her pick the evening, and she specifically picked that night because she had the next day off work, so I felt it was her problem and not mine. I also felt like she was texting someone else and there was something else going on (I. E. Her boyfriend or whatever was demanding to see her that night etc).

I once took a virgin to the FC within only a couple of hours of meeting her online (civy dating find). My current live-in girlfriend gave it up the first night I met her, and to this day still jokes to the effect of "I don't know how you did that", so she's in the category of the "OMG I never do that on the first date" girls. But I guess the fact that I'm still with her all these years is living proof that I really do respect them in the morning. LOL.