"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;2907400]I let her pick the time and place. Sends me a message 15 minutes after we are supposed to meet. "I slept in". 10 am? You slept in? Never said she was sorry. And the best thing is her profile says "first impressions are important".

GPS has inflected these girls' brains.[/QUOTE]Yeah, flakiness seems to be "normal" for the 20-something girls. It is something to expect out of them and plan for. Some dudes double book in case a SB flakes.

Hardest thing for me was getting use this "style" in these girls. I guess if they were go-getters and able to schedule / plan, they might be otherwise employed? Then again, have seen them flake with their peers and think nothing of it.

So learning to put up with a bit of this flakiness is part of the process. Not to say one should put up with a BUNCH of bad behavior, but expecting normal business etiquette might be a bit of a stretch.

Nothing to do at work today so been online most of it. Messaged a "10" in the Norfolk area for the hell of it. Turns out she is UTR. She texted me some private pics and we are meeting at Williamsburg hotel tonight. I really don't care if she is SB or UTR. Going to cost me the same and actually cheaper as no dinner M&G! She texted me just now confirming so I hope my drive from Richmond is worth it.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2906002] Also just curious because you mentioned diminished erections -- late 30's is too early for that, are you exercising often? If not, ramp that up. I got lazy when I was married and got back into working out a lot when I was in my 30's. It makes a huge difference, if I stopped working out tomorrow, in about 4-6 weeks my entire cravings for sex, erections etc. Would start to diminish. As long as I work out regularly my sex drive is everything is was when I was a teenager, probably more so. If you haven't read it, look up my post on exercise (I think its in the FAQ index) and the importance of it to sexual function. Main thing is cardio for circulation, and some weight training for keeping your T levels high. Stay at it and you can go into your 80's without erectile dysfunction.[/QUOTE]Great post, Jeez. I'm very much interested in keeping my T levels high and would really love to read your post on this. I did seriously search in the FAQ but couldn't find it. It'd be very helpful if someone could post the link. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Lebruno;2908343]Great post, Jeez. I'm very much interested in keeping my T levels high and would really love to read your post on this. I did seriously search in the FAQ but couldn't find it. It'd be very helpful if someone could post the link. Thanks.[/QUOTE]The exercise post (or at least one of them) is referenced in post #7 of the Index and FAQ thread: [URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ[/URL].

There were some other posts I wrote on the value of exercise but that's at least one of them, not sure the others are indexed and they would be hard to dig up otherwise. I really would encourage Googling around to read about the effect of exercise on T levels from more authoritative sources, I'm just one person with my own anecdotal experiences.

Here's one link to get started: [URL]http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspx[/URL].

Basically the only way to know how your T levels are is to get them tested by a doctor via lab work. If you do have low T (which by the official definition is actually fairly rare) you can definitely boost it through exercise and eating right, not to mention you need to do that anyway for overall good physical and mental health. But even if your T levels are average or above average, you still benefit sexually from intense exercise.

There's not too many things in life as good as getting text messages from some 19 year old you just gave a good solid fucking too, starting with about 15 minutes after she gets home after your date and spanning the next 2-3 days going on and on about how amazing the night was and how she'd never had sex like that in her life. It makes all the aches and pains of the exercise worthwhile. Yes I have dabbled with Viagra a little bit too, but it is just a supplemental for-fun thing and a backup plan for extenuating circumstances, not a necessity at this point or anything remotely close.

Word of caution: expressing a sudden interest in exercise or fitness is a big red flag to any SO. Wasn't an issue for me because it's a long-term thing that I've been into since the 80s. Work your way up to it slowly if married. A side benefit is that you can shower up and change clothes at the gym, and go home smelling like you didn't just fuck a 19 year old.

Hot Sexy Venus 29 wants 5 bills for dinner and date. [URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/ad67672f-1ded-4a6c-b398-95f32c17a9ab[/URL].

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2909027]Hot Sexy Venus 29 wants 5 bills for dinner and date. [URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/ad67672f-1ded-4a6c-b398-95f32c17a9ab[/URL].[/QUOTE]GPS is relative but I would certainly include her ask as belonging to that category. I pretty much ignore all girls who ask for more than Practical. If they are throwing a dart at the SD Board hoping to get a big spender any adjustment downward to see me would leave them disappointed and feeling gypped. Who needs to start off with a girl who has already compromised. There are just too many SBs who are listing Practical to bother with the others. I realize that some of them are not expecting big bucks but are hopeful. But that is just the wrong attitude. Also posing with a Rolls sends the wrong message. I want a cutie who is sitting in her 10 yr old VW Beetle who will be impressed when I roll up in an my Series 5 BMW and not be disappointed because it wasn't a 7 Series. Now $500/ visit falls within the Practical range if the arrangement is on and FC activity is expected.

I was in a small metro area last week that I'm visiting regularly now. By small, I mean there are really only about 12 active profiles on SA for the 50 mile radius. I was fortunate and hit pay dirt early on with a 10/10/10. She's an unmarried pediatrician, spinner, and cross-fitter. I have no idea what she sees in me, but I'm not fighting it. We see each other often, and we're heading to Asia for a few weeks this summer together.

My regular was out last week for a family emergency, and I'm in the town that time forgot. I hopped on SA, and immediately had a bite from one of the few cuties in town. We set-up a meeting via txt for the hotel bar (yeah the town isn't that small), and I wait. Twenty minutes passed the meeting time, I txt her ' She replies 10 minutes. Forty minutes later (now an hour after the meeting time), I tell her to forget it. I'm not into games, and drama. I head out to a local pub, and knock back a few. While at the pub, I get a txt that she's at the hotel bar and wants to see me. This is followed by a voice mail. The voice mail sounds like she's high. I take away my private pics on SA.

I head back to the hotel after about two hours at the pub, and a car from the local police is at the front door. I park and head-up the back stairs just out of an abundance of caution. I check SA, and five minutes prior to my arrival at the hotel she requested my private pics. She now calls my number. I block her on Google voice and SA.

I either avoided a sting (unlikely), or more likely a NANDO 1. She arrived at the hotel bar and made a scene, and so the locals were called. She told them she was meeting a guy at the hotel, and thus her desire to see my pics and call.

The moral of the story is don't let your little head think on SA. Due your diligence before setting up a meeting.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2907333]I hate to tell you Hoya, but your LTR is playing the volume game. Who knows how many SDs she has -obviously at least one -and maybe many more. You either have to be OK with her being a Pro SB, or let her go. She has tasted the good life and probably can't give it up. It is easy money. The addiction for them is similar to that for us. We can't give up young pussy for age appropriate relationships, and they can't give up the money. A similar thing happened to me. I was "in love" with my 22 yr old and found out that she was working 3 of us. We parted ways. Does your LTR "love you " ? Maybe -in a way. But not enough to be monogamous to you.[/QUOTE]I had been hinting about letting her go and she would always say that I didn't mean it. She'd even go as far as saying we'd be together forever, etc. It was borderline psycho how she wouldn't agree to ending things. We've had no contact for a little over a week. She surprised me by cutting it off with me. I thought I'd be saddened, but I felt tons of relief. I realize that this girl may have Borderline Personality Disorder. Everything I've read on it matches up with her. It was a toxic relationship. I'm feeling better. Since I got off the sugar I'm looking forward to having more free cash too.

In summary, the emotion and the sugaring was all for an experience. It added some fun to my life. I haven't totaled up how much I've spent in this "hobby", but in retrospect it was worth it. I came out better than I did in my divorce 😃. Cheers to The Bowl. I know I can't go back to dating my age. Overall this has been an experience of a lifetime. I showed some colleagues pictures of my SB / SO and they were floored. I never imagined this lifestyle when I was married. Gents, in some ways we've found the holy grail and a medicine for vitality.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2909532]I had been hinting ....... I showed some colleagues pictures of my SB / SO and they were floored. I never imagined this lifestyle when I was married. Gents, in some ways we've found the holy grail and a medicine for vitality.[/QUOTE]NO ONE will believe the hotties I'm getting, even I showed them the pics.

Heck, I don't believe it, some days.

BikeRider. That's a scary situation. I am glad you made the right moves at the end.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2909380]I was in a small metro area last week that I'm visiting regularly now. By small, I mean there are really only about 12 active profiles on SA for the 50 mile radius. I was fortunate and hit pay dirt early on with a 10/10/10. She's an unmarried pediatrician, spinner, and cross-fitter. I have no idea what she sees in me, but I'm not fighting it. We see each other often, and we're heading to Asia for a few weeks this summer together.

My regular was out last week for a family emergency, and I'm in the town that time forgot. I hopped on SA, and immediately had a bite from one of the few cuties in town. We set-up a meeting via txt for the hotel bar (yeah the town isn't that small), and I wait. Twenty minutes passed the meeting time, I txt her ' She replies 10 minutes. Forty minutes later (now an hour after the meeting time), I tell her to forget it. I'm not into games, and drama. I head out to a local pub, and knock back a few. While at the pub, I get a txt that she's at the hotel bar and wants to see me. This is followed by a voice mail. The voice mail sounds like she's high. I take away my private pics on SA.

I head back to the hotel after about two hours at the pub, and a car from the local police is at the front door. I park and head-up the back stairs just out of an abundance of caution. I check SA, and five minutes prior to my arrival at the hotel she requested my private pics. She now calls my number. I block her on Google voice and SA.

I either avoided a sting (unlikely), or more likely a NANDO 1. She arrived at the hotel bar and made a scene, and so the locals were called. She told them she was meeting a guy at the hotel, and thus her desire to see my pics and call.

The moral of the story is don't let your little head think on SA. Due your diligence before setting up a meeting.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2909573]

Heck, I don't believe it, some days.[/QUOTE]If SA existed 15 years ago -- when I had 2 x the income and all the trappings of a corporate tool --I don't think I ever would have dated again or gotten married.

Even the "dating" side of SA -- the messaging, M&Gs, flakes, test drives that prove less than anticipated -- is far less time and money than I spent on traditional dating.

Of course, 20 years ago, 20 something hotties were not yet of the mindset of mindless NSA hook ups that they exhibit now.

I think it's worthwhile to remember that SB / SD scene has been around since the beginning of time. I "experimented" in the bowl even when I was in my 20's, and was not old enough or successful enough to be anything remotely resembling a true sugar daddy. One of my favorite moments from back in the early 90's involved handing a POT an envelope with some cash because she had been complaining about paying the bills and such. I could see her sit there in the passenger seat of my car, literally feeling the thickness of the envelope with her fingers for a number of seconds, silently trying to guess what was behind door number three. Well ultimately she handed me back the envelope without opening it, and saying she would not take my assistance because she didn't want it to become like a sugar daddy scenario, she wanted a real relationship with me. Later she brags to one of her friends (who told a friend of mine) that about how she turned down a $1000 handout from me (remember, she never opened the envelope, she didn't realize there were a bunch of fives in there, and maybe 125 bucks total. LOL). But yes some of her friends were fucking 50+ year old men who were giving them weekly allowances. It's not a new practice at all.

Fast forward and the only thing that has changed is the process of meeting SBs has been made more efficient via the Internet and specific SD websites. Even before SA and such, sugar babies could be found on any of the early dating websites, and even before the Internet that in bars, nightclubs, the servers at restaurants, etc. Before most folks were online, some SDs used to troll for SBs using newspaper classifieds (although I never personally tried that method).

The problem with the newfound efficiency is that it is also drawing escorts / UTRs and guys who want that sort of thing, jeopardizing the future of these sites. A year ago, most of the chatter around the SB / SD scene was taking place here in the Richmond forum, and maybe one or two other forums on USASG. Now, every day when I look at the front page I see SD discussions taking place in dozens of different city forums, sometimes with "sugar babies" in the title, sometimes with SA in the title, etc. Often times what's actually being discussed in those threads has nothing to do with SBs at all, it's just guys swapping info about UTR escorts, and about back page girls that are polluting the scene, because they've discovered that with a bit of acting skill they can get paid more, choose their customers, and fuck less often for same income.

I believe it's only a matter of time before the influx of escorts and johns who are using SD sites as an escort alternative results in legal attention that causes problems for SA and the like. For that reason, I don't think any of us should plan our future around SA or depend on its existence for our happiness. It very well might go away some day. Learning how to find SBs off regular dating sites is a good skill to have if the landscape should change and the SD sites get shut down, or worse if the good websites start charging three hundred per month for membership due to increased SD demand and just because they can.

Personally, I'd like to envision USA learning from other countries and becoming more lenient about the world's oldest profession rather than wasting legal resources trying to stop it, but unless that happens I do believe that there is a risk of SD sites being identified as a facilitator for illegal activity, and with enough bad luck that can result in big problems for them.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2910797]I think it's worthwhile to remember that SB / SD scene has been around since the beginning of time. I "experimented" in the bowl even when I was in my 20's, and was not old enough or successful enough to be anything remotely resembling a true sugar daddy. One of my favorite moments from back in the early 90's involved handing a POT an envelope with some cash because she had been complaining about paying the bills and such. I could see her sit there in the passenger seat of my car, literally feeling the thickness of the envelope with her fingers for a number of seconds, silently trying to guess what was behind door number three. Well ultimately she handed me back the envelope without opening it, and saying she would not take my assistance because she didn't want it to become like a sugar daddy scenario, she wanted a real relationship with me. Later she brags to one of her friends (who told a friend of mine) that about how she turned down a $1000 handout from me (remember, she never opened the envelope, she didn't realize there were a bunch of fives in there, and maybe 125 bucks total. LOL). But yes some of her friends were fucking 50+ year old men who were giving them weekly allowances. It's not a new practice at all.

Fast forward and the only thing that has changed is the process of meeting SBs has been made more efficient via the Internet and specific SD websites. Even before SA and such, sugar babies could be found on any of the early dating websites, and even before the Internet that in bars, nightclubs, the servers at restaurants, etc. Before most folks were online, some SDs used to troll for SBs using newspaper classifieds (although I never personally tried that method).

The problem with the newfound efficiency is that it is also drawing escorts / UTRs and guys who want that sort of thing, jeopardizing the future of these sites. A year ago, most of the chatter around the SB / SD scene was taking place here in the Richmond forum, and maybe one or two other forums on USASG. Now, every day when I look at the front page I see SD discussions taking place in dozens of different city forums, sometimes with "sugar babies" in the title, sometimes with SA in the title, etc. Often times what's actually being discussed in those threads has nothing to do with SBs at all, it's just guys swapping info about UTR escorts, and about back page girls that are polluting the scene, because they've discovered that with a bit of acting skill they can get paid more, choose their customers, and fuck less often for same income.

I believe it's only a matter of time before the influx of escorts and johns who are using SD sites as an escort alternative results in legal attention that causes problems for SA and the like. For that reason, I don't think any of us should plan our future around SA or depend on its existence for our happiness. It very well might go away some day. Learning how to find SBs off regular dating sites is a good skill to have if the landscape should change and the SD sites get shut down, or worse if the good websites start charging three hundred per month for membership due to increased SD demand and just because they can.

Personally, I'd like to envision USA learning from other countries and becoming more lenient about the world's oldest profession rather than wasting legal resources trying to stop it, but unless that happens I do believe that there is a risk of SD sites being identified as a facilitator for illegal activity, and with enough bad luck that can result in big problems for them.[/QUOTE]IMHO if the day comes the sd site disappear then so will the biggest part of the sds on these sites. There will always be women who need financial help but once the sites are gone it will take more looking and time. It will be more of a civy type search which is a pain in the ass for most. The other big problem will be for the older guy who hunts the youngest sb's. Are they hanging out in the college bars, shopping malls trying to find these girls. The sites put the girls and money in the same place which makes it so convenient. If they disappear that takes the ease of finding them requiring the guys to actually have some sort of game. Big problem for most.

Most of the women with kids are going to be the easiest converts but bringing the subject up will take time. Then if your that comfortable with them why not get it for free? That leads us back to relationships and having the time and game. Most guys don't want that.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2910855]IMHO if the day comes the sd site disappear then so will the biggest part of the sds on these sites. There will always be women who need financial help but once the sites are gone it will take more looking and time. It will be more of a civy type search which is a pain in the ass for most. The other big problem will be for the older guy who hunts the youngest sb's. Are they hanging out in the college bars, shopping malls trying to find these girls. The sites put the girls and money in the same place which makes it so convenient. If they disappear that takes the ease of finding them requiring the guys to actually have some sort of game. Big problem for most.

Most of the women with kids are going to be the easiest converts but bringing the subject up will take time. Then if your that comfortable with them why not get it for free? That leads us back to relationships and having the time and game. Most guys don't want that.[/QUOTE]Agreed on all points. To be clear on my position, I just don't want the SD scene to become so overrun with escort activity that it attracts LE attention. The tenfold uptick in discussions of SBs here on USASG over the last few months just demonstrates how real this risk is. Not only will LE attention increase the risk of website closures, but once the stigma is attached to it such that the line is blurred between younger women dating successful men and flat out escorting, the real sugar babies won't want to be a part of the sites. And even if they do stay open, nothing but high volume UTRs and escorts pretending to be SBs will be left.

My main point is that a SD should always see himself as a confident player and in charge of his own destiny -- and never become too reliant on the current status quo to define our social life. Getting pussy is always a lot of work no matter how you do it, however anyone who has some reasonable combination of:

(a) game with meeting & talking to women.

(b) financial success.

(c) confidence in themselves.

(d) sexual skill / physical fitness.

Will always have a reasonable amount of fine young pussy depending on how strong they are in each area (note many of them go hand-in-hand, for example B breeds C, and so does D, and all three of them help enable A, so they aren't really distinctly separated traits).

But above all a SD should not get totally dependent on SA or some other specific website to be the center of their pussy-obtaining strategy. Brandon Wade's net worth is estimated around $35 million, and he is now married. With that kind of money in the bank, all it would take is one Ashley-Madison scale hack job and the associated lawsuits to make him say "fuck it, time to pack up and go home".

There will be other SD sites but that is part of my point, there will always be SDs and always be SBs if you know where to look. It might be harder work, but at the same time back before the SD sites were available, there was also less SD competition for the SBs. Judging by the proliferating interest observed on USASG, it's starting to look like its becoming a saturated, high-volume market. Good for Brandon Wade but also probably pushing him closer to the quit-while-ahead point where he decides to retire before the class action lawsuits or other legal troubles pour in.

My advice is simply that pussy is always there if you know where to look. Remain adaptable to changing times, because times always change.

Thank you for sharing. This is very useful and timely for what I was searching for. Now I'm going to work to tune myself up to be in condition to have a mind-blowing sex with a 19 yo. LOL.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2908948]The exercise post (or at least one of them) is referenced in post #7 of the Index and FAQ thread: [URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ[/URL].

There were some other posts I wrote on the value of exercise but that's at least one of them, not sure the others are indexed and they would be hard to dig up otherwise. I really would encourage Googling around to read about the effect of exercise on T levels from more authoritative sources, I'm just one person with my own anecdotal experiences.

Here's one link to get started: [URL]http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspx[/URL].

Basically the only way to know how your T levels are is to get them tested by a doctor via lab work. If you do have low T (which by the official definition is actually fairly rare) you can definitely boost it through exercise and eating right, not to mention you need to do that anyway for overall good physical and mental health. But even if your T levels are average or above average, you still benefit sexually from intense exercise.

There's not too many things in life as good as getting text messages from some 19 year old you just gave a good solid fucking too, starting with about 15 minutes after she gets home after your date and spanning the next 2-3 days going on and on about how amazing the night was and how she'd never had sex like that in her life. It makes all the aches and pains of the exercise worthwhile. Yes I have dabbled with Viagra a little bit too, but it is just a supplemental for-fun thing and a backup plan for extenuating circumstances, not a necessity at this point or anything remotely close.

Word of caution: expressing a sudden interest in exercise or fitness is a big red flag to any SO. Wasn't an issue for me because it's a long-term thing that I've been into since the 80s. Work your way up to it slowly if married. A side benefit is that you can shower up and change clothes at the gym, and go home smelling like you didn't just fuck a 19 year old.[/QUOTE]