"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2901038]Most are utr. If they have more than one daddy they are utr. A lot get straight to the point because they have been screwed over but the smart ones play the innocent card. Great selling tool and usually brings higher bucks.[/QUOTE]Been doing more detective work than I should. I found a receipt in her luggage for some high-priced Louis Bouton (*sp) shoes. They cost about $1,000. The guy sent them to her college apartment address. I did some intel on the guy's name. He's married, late 50's, a COO position and is local to the area where me and my LTR SB / SO live. I thought about contacting him and having a man-to-man talk about the extent of their relationship. I'm glad I refrained from doing so. The guys doesn't seem like competition to me. I can't imagine a guy spending that type of cash with no sex though. I never confronted her about it. The receipt was around the time we started getting serious "exclusive". I don't know if she's in contact with the guy still or not. Since she doesn't flaunt or wear gifts other than the stuff I bought her I assume it was something from her past.

She's never asked me for expensive gifts straight up. She's hinted only. I figure because I'm late 30's and because I've met a couple of her girlfriends that she's probably more genuine in our SB / SD / SO status. There was one time that I was entertaining her and a GF at my place. The GF's date came up to my place to meet her friend. The guy was late 50's, married and was into the girlfriend. It was obvious that it was a SB / SD situation. It appears her GF probably has a SB profile up. My SB never introduced me as a SD, because I'm still pretty youthful we fly under the radar. I think she actually likes that aspect of our relationship. She wanted me to meet her parents a few times, which makes me think that she saw me more of a "rich" boyfriend type.

Anyways, she's been distant. I think it's because I started questioning her about when she's missing for a few days out of the week. Her response is that she needs time away to hang with friends. Basically, she's saying I'm the first guy she's lived with and the commitment is more than what she's ready for. I take it she's confused. She's hinted at marriage and a kid. In my mind, she's calculating the student loan debt she'll have after school. The security and support I offer vs what she could find if she dated her age and gambling on finding a better deal somewhere else. She's early 20's, body still firm and may think she's got better options. My doubt comes in when I think if I we just and old guy that she's stringing along to give her some perks while she's in grad school. I've come to realize that the cost of college is expensive. For some SB / SD is a job for them. Maybe she's just playing the game to make sure her expenses are covered. Realistically, I'll never really know if this is just a job for her or not.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2899625]A first for me having a 22 yo VCU SB end up as a UTR. We are at our M&G dinner at a steakhouse. Things are going great with both of us laughing and would not have a clue that we just met. While waiting for the check, she starts rubbing my leg with her foot and saying she wasn't in a hurry to get back to studying for exams. I winked at her and said there a hotel across the street. She said let's go!

No mention of money beforehand so I am thinking I'm finally going to get some sugar for just the cost of dinner. So we get in the elevator and she's already kissing me. Once in the room it's clothes flying off and we end up on the bed all wrapped in each others arms and kissing like crazy. After a few minutes we end up with her on top of me rubbing her shaved kitty on my shaft. She leans in close and whispers in my ear that it is $ for a BJ and $$ for a fuck. Of course by now my little head is in full control and I say fuck. She rolls off me and grabs her purse. Out comes the condom and some lube. Then she proceeded to ride me. I think she was thinking that being an old guy and she being so young that I would pop quick. But I made her work for it and she was getting real tired when I finally shot my load.

Anyway, it was a nice evening and she sure knew how to play me. We will meet up again next week when I plan to sample her full menu. Willing to share her info with other senior members who have college cuties to trade info on in the Richmond / Charlottesville area.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a good deal. She was straight-forward so you know what you're getting into. In my experience, the SBs never come off like that. I reject the ones that her focused on a set sugar amount. I only had one SB that was upfront about pricing. I met her at her college library. She was definitely a student. When I pressed about the FC, she explained she only makes out and offers "massages" for a set price. I didn't pursue it further because there's too many SBs that are happy with $ or $$ after a date and then the FC. Better to know its UTR than playing the innocent SB, getting emotion involved and not knowing what she's really after. I think most college SBs are driven by fantasy and movies. The reality of their expenses set in and the clumsily chart their way into "arrangements". I suppose that after a few M&Gs with bad POT SDs they adjust their strategy. In my case, I come off as more of a boyfriend type, so my experiences are more GFE and minimal sugar. I suspect because I don't press for FC and be because I don't need to sneak around in hotels that their behavior is more in line with normal dating. For all I know I could be converting UTRs to mask as GFE.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2904671]Been doing more detective work than I should. I found a receipt in her luggage for some high-priced Louis Bouton (*sp) shoes. They cost about $1,000. The guy sent them to her college apartment address. I did some intel on the guy's name. He's married, late 50's, a COO position and is local to the area where me and my LTR SB / SO live. I thought about contacting him and having a man-to-man talk about the extent of their relationship. I'm glad I refrained from doing so. The guys doesn't seem like competition to me. I can't imagine a guy spending that type of cash with no sex though. I never confronted her about it. The receipt was around the time we started getting serious "exclusive". I don't know if she's in contact with the guy still or not. Since she doesn't flaunt or wear gifts other than the stuff I bought her I assume it was something from her past.

She's never asked me for expensive gifts straight up. She's hinted only. I figure because I'm late 30's and because I've met a couple of her girlfriends that she's probably more genuine in our SB / SD / SO status. There was one time that I was entertaining her and a GF at my place. The GF's date came up to my place to meet her friend. The guy was late 50's, married and was into the girlfriend. It was obvious that it was a SB / SD situation. It appears her GF probably has a SB profile up. My SB never introduced me as a SD, because I'm still pretty youthful we fly under the radar. I think she actually likes that aspect of our relationship. She wanted me to meet her parents a few times, which makes me think that she saw me more of a "rich" boyfriend type.

Anyways, she's been distant. I think it's because I started questioning her about when she's missing for a few days out of the week. Her response is that she needs time away to hang with friends. Basically, she's saying I'm the first guy she's lived with and the commitment is more than what she's ready for. I take it she's confused. She's hinted at marriage and a kid. In my mind, she's calculating the student loan debt she'll have after school. The security and support I offer vs what she could find if she dated her age and gambling on finding a better deal somewhere else. She's early 20's, body still firm and may think she's got better options. My doubt comes in when I think if I we just and old guy that she's stringing along to give her some perks while she's in grad school. I've come to realize that the cost of college is expensive. For some SB / SD is a job for them. Maybe she's just playing the game to make sure her expenses are covered. Realistically, I'll never really know if this is just a job for her or not.[/QUOTE]Hoya. I really don't know where to start.

You clearly care for this girl a great deal. This is good in relationships, and bad in the bowl. My advice (not that it is worth anything) is to decide if you want her as your gf or sb. If you want a real relationship with her you, then need to start communicating better with her. If you want her as your SB, then you need to lay down some ground rules and start to detach.

Personally, I'd walk if I were you. You sound very successful (nice condo and luxury cars). You're in your late 30's, and single. That's prime hunting age for the mid to late 20's girls SB or not. Have confidence in yourself that you're attractive to women, and find a couple of replacements for her. You may not find a 10/10/10, but I'd take a lower number with less drama. You're tearing yourself up worrying about her, and ultimately she's replaceable.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2904479]Haven't had a FC with my LTR SB in some time. We linked up recently after she came over from a night clubbing. She was more explicit than ever before and porn star quality. It was the best sex I ever had and she I oh oh oh r 1was doing just about everything. I had no idea she had this type of performance in her. She was vocal and saying stuff like "this pussy is yours, no one else's", etc. You get the picture. The session left me mind-boggled. Was she holding back all the times before? Was it because she felt I was drifting away? I'm not sure, but she's been distant after the session and it left me wanted MORE.

I have no idea if she's back playing the field and learnt some new thing from one of the Bros. Or what. Anyways, she's leaving for a few months for a summer school program. She made no requests for sugar and I don't know if she's ready to move back in as the SB / SO / GFE role. I've been trying to replace her, but SA hasn't been too fruitful as far as inventory. I'm stuck at this point.

She left most of her clothes and belongings at my place, same as before we had a falling out. The main reason for our break-up was she spent far too much time with her peer group. While we were living together she had a habit of disappearing. She'd claim she would be staying at a girlfriends. We haven't seen much of each other because she claimed she needed space and living together with my "rules" was too much for her. She hasn't had access to my sugar and I don't know how she's dealing with bills.

I'm always hands-off with my SBs. I don't call or text them too often. I do this to not seem needy. I think I fell for her, especially after a round of renewing my SA and not finding the same 10/10/10 quality out there. This girl gave me the emotional, sexual connection I needed. The complete package and everything I wanted out a SB. I'm wondering if she found a better SB or if she's changed her mind about our SB / SD as an exclusive SO arrangement. I'm only hopeful that she'll come back around for the fall semester.

Any suggestions to fix this drought I'm in?[/QUOTE]I feel your pain. My read on the girl is that she is driven by sex in the same degree as most of us guys are. Likes the variety and when she wants it she wants it now. We need to accept the fact that some girls are addicted to sex as much as we are. I recently reached out to bi-curious SBs on SA that would be interested in fmf with some bdsm overtones and had a 19 yr old co-ed girl out a 3 page questionnaire on her experiences and desires / interests. Brought it to the m&g with my bi-SB and me. Compared to her sweet and innocent FB page you would say no way. Went to the FC 20 minutes later. Had a great time but now she has gone dark.

My only advice to surviving the emotional roller coaster these 18-25 single no-kid types put us thru is to work towards always having 2 good # 2's. Never have an exclusive # 1.

I can't have a live in because I have a SO but even if I could I wouldn't. But that's because I don't want a gf, I want multiple SBs.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2905130]Hoya. I really don't know where to start.

You clearly care for this girl a great deal. This is good in relationships, and bad in the bowl. My advice (not that it is worth anything) is to decide if you want her as your gf or sb. If you want a real relationship with her you, then need to start communicating better with her. If you want her as your SB, then you need to lay down some ground rules and start to detach.

Personally, I'd walk if I were you. You sound very successful (nice condo and luxury cars). You're in your late 30's, and single. That's prime hunting age for the mid to late 20's girls SB or not. Have confidence in yourself that you're attractive to women, and find a couple of replacements for her. You may not find a 10/10/10, but I'd take a lower number with less drama. You're tearing yourself up worrying about her, and ultimately she's replaceable.[/QUOTE]Hoya I'd second BikeRider's comments and even take it a step further. If you are late 30's, you're still quite young, and if you have financial success at that point in your life you have a lot of options at your fingertips, many of which are better than the SD sites. When I was in my mid-late 30's I was coming out of a divorce situation, and at the time the idea of compensated companionship didn't appeal to me at all, so I stuck to civy dating. While I did dabble a bit in the bowl (not so much actually providing allowance as much as seeking out the type of girls who want it, and using "dangle the carrot" tactics to my advantage), it was really just a pass time. Back then I was legitimately looking for a partner -- I missed that feeling of something real. I was looking not only for pussy but someone I would want to be around outside the bedroom, and what's more I wanted someone who was into me -- not just a gold digger or a girl that's only happy when she's traveling or shopping. Cheesy as it sounds I wanted someone who laughed at my jokes, enjoyed my company, provided the kind of unconditional loyalty you usually get from a dog... lol. Okay expecting that level of loyalty from a woman is a bit of a stretch, but I got close enough to my goal.

So here I am now, I found her -- my soulmate -- or the closest thing to it. Someone I can potentially see myself with the rest of my life. It doesn't stop me from pursuing strange pussy, I go through varying cycles of remorse and guilt, but for now I have just conceded that my need to fuck new girls occasionally is just bigger than me and not a solvable problem, the only thing I can do is satisfy the craving while being as careful as possible. I guess in a way I am living proof that it is possible to have your cake and eat it too, as long as you are self-disciplined enough to be careful and not get too addicted or carried away. I did the same thing back in the day when I was married, yet she never caught me once (the marriage failed for unrelated reasons).

I guess what I'm saying is that you're young enough that I think you should be taking advantage of all the free pussy available to you, while looking for the partner that you seem to want -- play the field but keep an eye out for a winner. When it comes to quality women, none of them are on the SD websites. Every single one of those girls believes they are entitled to something beyond a traditional relationship and hard work. The very fact they signed up to be an SB in the first place indicates a sense of entitlement or an expectation of sorts that is a minefield in a relationship. Sure, some of them are just sweethearts with daddy issues but those daddy issues come back to haunt you in a real relationship -- any issues they have, if they take the easy way out the issues never get solved.

While its true the 18-20 year olds would be harder to come by if they aren't already sugar-minded, at your age there is a LOT of pussy available that's free and clear of any allowance expectation to a successful guy in his 30's with some game, especially if you look for girls in the late 20's to early 30's bracket. The problem is that once you enter the bowl you are spending time and resources on women who are never going to be good soulmate or wife material, and what's more you're spoiling yourself such that age-appropriate pussy is going to seem unattractive (it shouldn't. The best sex partner I ever had was in her early 30's).

I'm just offering my two cents because you seem to want a partner. I can relate, I'm the same way and if I split from my SO tomorrow I would keep a stable of strippers and SBs ready to satisfy my physical needs but I would look elsewhere for something real. I've just come to accept that my physical and emotional needs are two very different things. The women that satisfy my physical needs can be different individuals than the one who satisfies my emotional needs. In fact in my case, they have to be. I just need to make sure they don't know about each other.

Also just curious because you mentioned diminished erections -- late 30's is too early for that, are you exercising often? If not, ramp that up. I got lazy when I was married and got back into working out a lot when I was in my 30's. It makes a huge difference, if I stopped working out tomorrow, in about 4-6 weeks my entire cravings for sex, erections etc. Would start to diminish. As long as I work out regularly my sex drive is everything is was when I was a teenager, probably more so. If you haven't read it, look up my post on exercise (I think its in the FAQ index) and the importance of it to sexual function. Main thing is cardio for circulation, and some weight training for keeping your T levels high. Stay at it and you can go into your 80's without erectile dysfunction.

I like to message fresh faces as they show up on SA. Here lately it seems many never reply. I'm sure most get swamped with messages but I usually write an extended greeting. More than one have commented that was what made them interested in seeing me.

I was running around 75% replying, now only 40%. Add in the current batch that mention seeking platonic only, it has been a slow three weeks on my current monthly membership. Only one new that made it to the FC. Hope it picks up soon as I have lots of free afternoons in the next 30 days.

To all my brothers on here, THANK YOU. I am a long time lerker. I am going to now be a frequent poster. I feel that I can offer some help and ask for help myself.

First thing, do you guys text your POTs everyday? I think I messed up two situations by not texting them everyday. They both cancelled their profiles and I figured I was the guy. We did meet, everything went well. I never discussed sex or money, I thought that was the right approach (maybe not? I think their little brains just get sidetracked and not we don't text at all. I wonder what went wrong.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2906150]I like to message fresh faces as they show up on SA. Here lately it seems many never reply. I'm sure most get swamped with messages but I usually write an extended greeting. More than one have commented that was what made them interested in seeing me.

I was running around 75% replying, now only 40%. Add in the current batch that mention seeking platonic only, it has been a slow three weeks on my current monthly membership. Only one new that made it to the FC. Hope it picks up soon as I have lots of free afternoons in the next 30 days.[/QUOTE]I'm guessing a lot of the college SBs are getting summer jobs and are not as desperate for sugar. Or just being more selective.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2904671]Been doing more detective work than I should. I found a receipt in her luggage for some high-priced Louis Bouton (*sp) shoes. They cost about $1,000. The guy sent them to her college apartment address. I did some intel on the guy's name. He's married, late 50's, a COO position and is local to the area where me and my LTR SB / SO live. I thought about contacting him and having a man-to-man talk about the extent of their relationship. I'm glad I refrained from doing so. The guys doesn't seem like competition to me. I can't imagine a guy spending that type of cash with no sex though. I never confronted her about it. The receipt was around the time we started getting serious "exclusive". I don't know if she's in contact with the guy still or not. Since she doesn't flaunt or wear gifts other than the stuff I bought her I assume it was something from her past.

.[/QUOTE]I hate to tell you Hoya, but your LTR is playing the volume game. Who knows how many SDs she has -obviously at least one -and maybe many more. You either have to be OK with her being a Pro SB, or let her go. She has tasted the good life and probably can't give it up. It is easy money. The addiction for them is similar to that for us. We can't give up young pussy for age appropriate relationships, and they can't give up the money. A similar thing happened to me. I was "in love" with my 22 yr old and found out that she was working 3 of us. We parted ways. Does your LTR "love you " ? Maybe -in a way. But not enough to be monogamous to you.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;2906240]To all my brothers on here, THANK YOU. I am a long time lerker. I am going to now be a frequent poster. I feel that I can offer some help and ask for help myself.

First thing, do you guys text your POTs everyday? I think I messed up two situations by not texting them everyday. They both cancelled their profiles and I figured I was the guy. We did meet, everything went well. I never discussed sex or money, I thought that was the right approach (maybe not? I think their little brains just get sidetracked and not we don't text at all. I wonder what went wrong.[/QUOTE]I'm new here as well but have been lurking for over a year and read a lot of the tips elsewhere on this site. I doubt many text their SB's daily. I try to not seem needy with any that I contact. Usually I move my POTs over to email asap. Works better in my situation and gives me another option for background searching on them. Back to your question. Every situation is different but you should be able to quickly determine what the baby likes. I've got one that emails me every day. Been going on for 6 weeks now. Only seen her twice in that time and she is still active almost every day on SA. Usually its a "thinking of you" or "what are you watching on TV tonight". I assume its her usual approach with guys. Most I just message once a week and see every other.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2907333]I hate to tell you Hoya, but your LTR is playing the volume game. Who knows how many SDs she has -obviously at least one -and maybe many more. You either have to be OK with her being a Pro SB, or let her go. She has tasted the good life and probably can't give it up. It is easy money. The addiction for them is similar to that for us. We can't give up young pussy for age appropriate relationships, and they can't give up the money. A similar thing happened to me. I was "in love" with my 22 yr old and found out that she was working 3 of us. We parted ways. Does your LTR "love you " ? Maybe -in a way. But not enough to be monogamous to you.[/QUOTE]I had something similar happened to me as well. I met this Ukrainian girl on match and she insisted that we become exclusive. I did and after two months I find out that she currently has an account on SA. I'm fine with my sugarbaby seeing other guys what I don't like it is when you try to pass yourself off as a civi date but then become a sugarbaby behind my back. She goes by the name Nicole and she's on that right now.

I let her pick the time and place. Sends me a message 15 minutes after we are supposed to meet. "I slept in". 10 am? You slept in? Never said she was sorry. And the best thing is her profile says "first impressions are important".

GPS has inflected these girls' brains.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2907379]I had something similar happened to me as well. I met this Ukrainian girl on match and she insisted that we become exclusive. I did and after two months I find out that she currently has an account on SA. I'm fine with my sugarbaby seeing other guys what I don't like it is when you try to pass yourself off as a civi date but then become a sugarbaby behind my back. She goes by the name Nicole and she's on that right now.[/QUOTE]I tried exclusive once with a monthly allowance. She went 19 days without being active. Back on the day after my monthly membership ended and I deactivated my account. She didn't know I had a second account ready to use so I saw her online daily after that. I got my months worth out of her and let her go. She didn't protest too much so I figure she had another daddy going by then.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;2907400]I let her pick the time and place. Sends me a message 15 minutes after we are supposed to meet. "I slept in". 10 am? You slept in? Never said she was sorry. And the best thing is her profile says "first impressions are important".

GPS has inflected these girls' brains.[/QUOTE]If they don't have a job, they won't wake up. Has happened to me numerous times, as late as 1 pm.

Well. Had a little trip with my SB and went well. I did try to break it off with her on our return though. Just not enough sex going on the last few months. None of this is really her fault. Health issues and a serious family situation she had to leave town for a bit. All verified issues but now I forsee some other issues still coming up so have been looking on SA. FYI. She was a bit more upset than I thought she would be when I tried to break it off. We talked and I caved. LOL. But am on the hunt and am sure it will be easier if I have another definitely lined up so I have been on SA and had a couple dates with one late 20's which I really prefer for drama reasons. All seemed well. We talked allowance she seemed like it was adequate. And I likely would of done a little more if asked but then went ghost!. Oh well. Back on the hunt and now I have 2 20 yr olds I am working (yeah yeah. I'm not wired for 220. Har har har) anyway one lives in my area and the other an easy drive but about an hour away. Suppose to have meets this week. I have a preference for one over the other just because she is a tiny spinner type but we will see if the meets happen and how we click. Both attractive and fit though. Wish me luck!