"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2881914]Most of these girls are bi and jump at the chance. Most like to point this out in their profiles and alot state in the profile that they can bring a gf. It usually don't long into texting whether they are up to it or not. Its not hard to find or set up.[/QUOTE]Very different from my experience. Maybe 20% of the girls I meet on SB sites admit to either having experimented or a willingness to. Maybe the true number is higher, perhaps they are lying and just don't want to share me with another?! LOL. One way of looking at it. The percentage of bi strippers I meet is much higher. Maybe even 60%.

There are a lot of girls that indicate interest in other girls in their profile, but its far from most of them in my searches. I'd say even less than the 20% that admit when asked. But, there is a wide range of types of girls on SB sites across different cities. Some of the girls I meet would cut off communication almost immediately if you start talking sex in the initial conversations. At the other end of the spectrum there is the UTRs and escorts that label themselves SB. Very different category of girl though.

If you look at girls in LA, Vegas etc. And you'll find girls describing exactly what type of sex toys they want you to cram in their cooch right there in their profile or other preferences. LOL. If I wanted high volume wild girls I'd go to BP and get it cheaper. They have sites like AFF for that, kind of a shame to see the SD sites cluttered up with that crap.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2882161]Very different from my experience. Maybe 20% of the girls I meet on SB sites admit to either having experimented or a willingness to. Maybe the true number is higher, perhaps they are lying and just don't want to share me with another?! LOL. One way of looking at it. The percentage of bi strippers I meet is much higher. Maybe even 60%.

There are a lot of girls that indicate interest in other girls in their profile, but its far from most of them in my searches. I'd say even less than the 20% that admit when asked. But, there is a wide range of types of girls on SB sites across different cities. Some of the girls I meet would cut off communication almost immediately if you start talking sex in the initial conversations. At the other end of the spectrum there is the UTRs and escorts that label themselves SB. Very different category of girl though.

If you look at girls in LA, Vegas etc. And you'll find girls describing exactly what type of sex toys they want you to cram in their cooch right there in their profile or other preferences. LOL. If I wanted high volume wild girls I'd go to BP and get it cheaper. They have sites like AFF for that, kind of a shame to see the SD sites cluttered up with that crap.[/QUOTE]I'm a much older giy and my definition of a sb probably doesn't match most here. The sb sites are already cluttered with pros, utr, strippers, cam girls etc. Not sure what age you go for but the college girls are more than happy to describe their drunken exploits of being fucked silly by 2 or more guys and their first time with a gf. I was very surprised by this but hey the younger generation. Anyway SA is full of these girls who have multiple sds and guys they are fucking for free. Anywhere money is the main objective your going to find someone who is going to provide a service for it, so the SD sites provide that opportunity for most.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2881967]Is there a risk of the hotel telling on the phone that a room is available but is not when you show up? May be someone showed up at the front desk before me!

Also what is your preferred site / app for booking a room?[/QUOTE]It hasn't happened to me. I always ask the name of the person with whom I'm speaking when I call- often they're there when I check-in. In case of a problem at check-in, say you spoke with so and so and ask for a manager. Don't get upset just act confused.

Unless the hotel was full the night before, they'll have rooms before noon. Even if they were full, they'll have rooms after noon and likely before (especially near major airports).

I just went through this at a hotel in a major city while traveling for work. I arrived at 2 pm, and they said check-in is at 3 pm and my room wasn't ready. I asked a few questions (all in a nice tone) such as 'ok so your maid service is cleaning all of the rooms in the last hour'. A manager over heard the conversation and came over. Surprisingly, I was given a room once a manager came over.

I've elite status with several of the chains so I use [URL]hotels.com[/URL] to find the cheapest and start there. I typically book through the chain's website for the points (I'm a points ***** and yes it is a paper trail, but if my SO goes that far I'm already toast). I try to get a nice room, but not over pay. In a major city, that's tough some times.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2882207]I'm a much older giy and my definition of a sb probably doesn't match most here. The sb sites are already cluttered with pros, utr, strippers, cam girls etc. Not sure what age you go for but the college girls are more than happy to describe their drunken exploits of being fucked silly by 2 or more guys and their first time with a gf. I was very surprised by this but hey the younger generation. Anyway SA is full of these girls who have multiple sds and guys they are fucking for free. Anywhere money is the main objective your going to find someone who is going to provide a service for it, so the SD sites provide that opportunity for most.[/QUOTE]The availability of porn and general sexual discussion on the net has made even the young ones grow up fast, by the time they are 18-19, there's not much you could do that's going to be their first rodeo. If they aren't practiced from doing it, they are practiced from watching it on porn sites. On the other hand I can remember being in HS many decades ago and meeting freshmen that did pretty much everything I saw in porn films at the time, even though porn was much less ubiquitous then, so I'm not sure the Internet is the only culprit. They start young, and by the time they get to college the good looking ones are far from angels (at least if they are on an SB site its a guarantee). That said, I'm not sure it makes their sexuality (i.e. bisexual or open to threesomes) disproportionate to the general population in all cases. On a national scale, I'm sure SBs tend to be a little more sexually adventurous than the general population, but as I mentioned you can see a lot of variance from city to city, some cities just seem to have a higher level of promiscuity tendency. Maybe it even has to do with the size of the city and how "anonymous" and liberated they feel.

We are also biased by our own behavior, preferences, search filters, and ultimately the girls we end up with. There are tons of rampant hos on there -- but sometimes I forget they are there because I tend to not waste seconds looking at them once identified. In recent days I had 2 separate girls in different cities indicate to me they are open to doing anal, in their first couple of messages to me. I would have completely forgot about them, because anyone that says something like that to someone she hasn't met yet is clearly a pro, UTR at minimum. I barely acknowledge them, forget they are even there. A real SB will typically reserve any sexual details until she has met you in person and decides if she WANTS to fuck you or not. That's probably the most important single distinguishing factor. Not being interested in SB wannabes, I just forget those kind of girls are even on these sites at all, but of course they are.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2881033]I want to try this one of these days, but if I do this, it would be close to home which means I would need to be hitting the same hotel (s) up with the same sob story of a long drive, which would be hard to explain living close by. Plus they are going to be wonder why is this guy taking a new college girl to his room for only a few hours each time he stays here with that same old story. LOL.[/QUOTE]It depends on your area. If you're near a major city (or airport), then it is easy.

As for the girl, I never check in with the girl. She waits outside, and I check-in / I text her the room number. She follows. Yes there is a chance she'll bolt, but it hasn't happened to me yet.

There was one week I stayed at the same hotel for three nights. The same employee checked me in two of the times, and she said on the second time "you're back again? I just laughed and said yeah my client is a pain in the ass. She laughed and that was the end of it.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2881914]Most of these girls are bi and jump at the chance. Most like to point this out in their profiles and alot state in the profile that they can bring a gf. It usually don't long into texting whether they are up to it or not. Its not hard to find or set up.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I agree, Apparently sexually with the 20-somethings is fluid or was fluid at one point. Have been "vertical" dating the Mom's of these girls and have been shocked when they tell me their daughters all go through a phase where at one point they are gay, then straight, then switch to bi-sexual and switch around several times before finally settling on one orientation / identity. So unlike most of us SD types who would be appalled it the idea of a same-sex interaction I suspect a large majority of the 20-something girls have had same-sex experiences and are wired to be non-judgemental and accepting of such.

Thus a girl who may identify as straight might not object to visiting some FMF play, especially if she is trying to please her SD. Again, it is hard to not impose one's experiences and views on the situation at hand, even though the younger generation has established different mores.

My brothers,

Here was my MO, for what it's worth: I created a new profile on SA specifically stating that I was an experienced SD and that my current baby had asked me to find another girl to join us from time to time. I also included things about me. Like to go out, like to stay in with a bottle of wine and a blanket, blah blah blah. And I also included a brief description of my baby.

I then contact ANY pot I was attracted to, regardless of whether they said they were interested in women as well as men, and regardless of their sugar anticipations. My thought was that this was a unique situation I was proposing, and so would be negotiated outside the bounds of what they might be expecting.

In my contact message, I re-iterated what I was looking for, and indicated that if they were not interested in a threesome, I'd be happy to have a more traditional SD / SB arrangement anyway, because I found them so incredibly attractive. Can't hit if you don't swing, right?

I let them know that they would be meeting me alone first, and if things went well and there was a connection, then the three of us would meet for coffee or a drink and see how THAT went. If all seemed rosy, we would plan our next meeting for the FC. At each step I was keeping my SB up to speed, getting her excited to meet the POT and so forth. I made sure to have pics on my phone of my baby to show the new girl, and vice versa. My thinking was to work the third in gradually, giving her a couple of opportunities to bail, at least in her mind, so as not to spook her.

In all honesty, many candidates did not make it past the first m&g. A lot of them were a little rough around the edges, and a few slipped by my Pro-dar, but all in all it was a pretty easy process, all things considered.

As I said, the hardest part was arranging everyone's schedules to meet in the FC.

Since then, I have added one of the thirds to my regular stable, and it turns out - surprise - she has a friend who's interested in joining us, and my regular SB, who got the whole thing rolling, is once again pining for some pussy, so I will be back on the hunt in the coming weeks. In all communications, I was extremely polite and deferential in terms of broaching the topic to POTs, and many of them commented that it gave them a good feeling from the start.

In terms of percentages, I'd say maybe 20% of the girls I contacted initially responded, while the others read my message, looked at my profile, and then went dark. My thinking there is that I can always circle back using my regular profile and hit them up again, but honestly this whole threesome thing is providing me with more pussy than I can comfortably handle at this point. There were a few who were not interested in a threesome, but were so impressed by my politeness, and comforted by the fact that I already had an SB and thus was "vetted", that it was child's play to get them to the FC and put them on occasional rotation status.

As for sugar, I did give them a tiny bit more than I give my regular SB, but was upfront about it with both of them, explaining that since this was an occasional thing, it merited a little more sugar, but since I was seeing my regular once a week, she was coming out ahead. By the time we got to discussions of sugar, the third was already smitten by my baby, and possibly by me as well, so she was seeing it as a bonus on top of something she was already looking forward to. In all honesty, I did encounter a couple who wanted exorbitant amounts of sugar, and I politely declined and moved on. Truly, there was no shortage of thirds to choose among, the only issue was which one my baby wanted to fuck.

It did take a fair amount of game to get this all set up, but like anything, the more you do it the better at it you get.

Hope this is helpful. PM me if you have questions you don't want out here in the journal.

Keep up the good work, my friends, and don't forget to write!

Scott.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2882801]
Thus a girl who may identify as straight might not object to visiting some FMF play, especially if she is trying to please her SD. Again, it is hard to not impose one's experiences and views on the situation at hand, even though the younger generation has established different mores.[/QUOTE]This is a good point that may highlight an important difference in my earlier statistics gathering. How the question is asked often plays a big difference in how the subject answers the question. I never say "would you be willing to do it to please me?" If I defined bisexuality by the willingness to answer yes to that question, I suspect a much higher percentage of the girls I've known would then be considered bi. In their mind though, I don't think this makes them identify as bi or even bi-curious.

When I talk to them about it, it is usually along the lines of whether they want and / or crave other girls, not the more vague "have you ever experimented with girls before" or similar. That last question opens up a lot of possibilities that I suspect it would be hard for most girls to answer no to, depending on the definition of experiment.

Willingness to please daddy is something different. Reminds me of all the retired porn stars that later admit they never really craved women (a high number of them), they just did girl-girl action because it was good for their career.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2877571]Way to go. It appears you're back in control. I agree after going back to the college lifestyle she remembered how good she had it.

As far as the other one wanting a cell phone so early on and she is a 10/10/10 I would say no if you're giving her 600.[/QUOTE]New POT was adamant about cash for a new phone. Set up another date to hit the mall and check phones out. Her credit is shot and can't get the finance option. Gave her. 2 $ for a phone repair and we hung out a bit for the day. A real GFE experience. Movies and dinner. We set this weekend up for dinner and FC. She has a roommate, so will likely have to cover hotel.

Meanwhile, SB / SO that's been on probation has gotten better and better. We've been seeing each other for awhile now, so I appreciate the familiarity. No sugar, the girl is like family now. She wants LTR. I always thought she was gaming me, so I treated her poorly. Oddly, this technique is what brought her closer. It's a shame I had to be more of a douchebag to get her in line. We're in a cooling off period, but I suspect she's counted my condoms (we don't use them). I noticed she's slowly bringing articles of clothing and hair products back into my house 😉. Considering going back to her full-time due to convenience, ease and the level of effort required. My plan is to wait till end of summer, but do enough to keep her close. If she's still on good behavior and no longer causing problems I'd be fine with taking this back to live-in GF and all the perks she had before.

Seriously? You solved the 600 new phone request with. 20 phone repair offer. Pretty smart move. Good luck w the weekend FC date.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2883328]New POT was adamant about cash for a new phone. Set up another date to hit the mall and check phones out. Her credit is shot and can't get the finance option. Gave her. 2 $ for a phone repair and we hung out a bit for the day. A real GFE experience. Movies and dinner. We set this weekend up for dinner and FC. She has a roommate, so will likely have to cover hotel.
[/QUOTE]

So, obviously different girls are different but how much does one expect to spend, say, per encounter with a SB?

With an escort it can be something like $150-400/ hour (for 95% of what's available in RVA). Say you have 4 visits a month, so that's $600-$1,600. Thoughts on what a range for a SB would likely be??

[QUOTE=BlitzTea;2883717]So, obviously different girls are different but how much does one expect to spend, say, per encounter with a SB?

With an escort it can be something like $150-400/ hour (for 95% of what's available in RVA). Say you have 4 visits a month, so that's $600-$1,600. Thoughts on what a range for a SB would likely be??[/QUOTE]Per hour it's a lot cheaper than an escort because the FC encounters run multiple hours. At least for me. I've read per month / allowance would be the cost of a one bedroom apt in your area. I have been going per meet in the $. 5 to $$. 5 range inclusive of a room if I have to get one. I'd love to hear others opine on this too.

[QUOTE=Spider2112;2884081]Per hour it's a lot cheaper than an escort because the FC encounters run multiple hours. At least for me. I've read per month / allowance would be the cost of a one bedroom apt in your area. I have been going per meet in the $. 5 to $$. 5 range inclusive of a room if I have to get one. I'd love to hear others opine on this too.[/QUOTE]Spider summed it up perfectly -- SBs are way more cost effective not only in terms of cost per hour but overall bang for buck. SBs (at least real ones) are not so focused on how many hours they are with you. If they like you and there's some genuine attraction (which is supposed to be the whole point), there will be times you want some "me" time and won't be able to get rid of them. If you broke it down to cost per hour or cost per fuck, the numbers could potentially be all over the map.

$$ is my average gift to the girl, maybe more depending on circumstances (I. E. She drives a long way to meet me, etc). But I'm usually spending more than that on drinks, dinner, that's not part of fixed overhead (the hotel). If she's a little too princess and orders ridiculous amounts of expensive appetizers or drinks and jacks up the bill just because she can, she might get below standard gift unless she makes up for it in the FC (honestly they usually do so that's not a common problem).

But, what I get for that can really vary. The quality of sex, the amount of time, etc. Is all going to depend mostly on how well I game the situation. It's not uncommon to get an all-nighter and multiple fucks (and or epic long single fucks that last 1-1. 5 hrs) for the standard $$ gift.

Recently met an amazing stripper, agreed to $$. 5 to come home with me (risked losing her job and cut her shift short. She would have made more than that off of a single VIP room sucker ..I mean customer....if she had stayed that night and finished her shift). A week later I text her I'm in town again, she wants a real date night, she has the night off work, no tip-out required so I'm only on the hook for dinner and drinks. Her yoga class ran late so I ate alone, no dinner cost. She's got membership at the niteclubs she wanted to go dancing at, we don't have to wait in line and I don't have to pay cover. Total damage about $$$. 5 for two nights of unrelenting, epic sex with an ultra hot stripper half my age, full GFE, bareback, bbbjcim whatever I wanted she just likes to please daddy. Now granted, that's not something that originated on an SD website but it's all running the same kind of game. Cannot beat that kind of experience by booking backpage girls if your life depended on it.

But all of this illustrates why I don't make offers up front, I gift on performance. If I put a number out there early on, she's going to always expect that number and I just become an ATM machine that dispenses the designated fee at timed intervals and I don't want that, it takes the fun out of the game for me.

[QUOTE=BlitzTea;2883717]So, obviously different girls are different but how much does one expect to spend, say, per encounter with a SB?

With an escort it can be something like $150-400/ hour (for 95% of what's available in RVA). Say you have 4 visits a month, so that's $600-$1,600. Thoughts on what a range for a SB would likely be??[/QUOTE]Most of mine are $$ plus dinner first. An hour for dinner and 2 at the FC. Although the last one I contacted wanted 600 monthly allowance. Which didn't sound too bad but then she added she needed $$. 5 per visit on top of that. The 6 was her "exclusive" fee. Like for sure I am going to believe I'm the only she would be seeing. Scratch that one off the list.

I know there has been discussion over guys who overpay and promote the GPS we run into. Here is an example of that. There's an SB I met off SA 3 years ago. We hit it off na saw each other for a few months at $$ per meet. We got to be really close friends and at the same time she decided to go more the pro route. We ended our formal SD / SB relationship, but remained friends. We do get together for a roll in the hay on occasion, plus she gives a killer massage, but mostly just get together for brunch every couple of months.

Anyway, in addition to doing body rubs off BP, she's also still on SA. She related that she just landed this guy that after one M&G just met her for an FC date. The agreed on amount was $400. In her words from a text to me, "I forgot condoms, he didn't have any. Fooled around for like 20 minutes. Was there for not even 2 hrs, $400. I plan on keeping this guy around, LOL".

There are guys out there who apparently have money to burn, LOL.

Good hunting!

Travelin.