"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]I found out that there are guys out there paying exorbitant rates but the majority are still in the Minimal to Practical range. Keep to your standards. Do the m&G and when the unemployed SBs need money they will sign up. More than once / week might be more of a difficulty for you. My suggestion is to aim for once / week at $200-250/ date and negotiate up for more often. Also, paradoxically, the older "SB" is more demanding. I have had better luck with the college girls. Also, stay away from the 9-10's. They are spoiled from all the attention. I like the nice 7+face /8+ body. They are less in demand and more appreciative.

Looks like the SA upgrade now includes a change to BLOCKs.

If she blocks you, the message you get is just like if she took down her profile where as bewfore it said you were blocked.

Like the change is going to spare anyone feelings.

Thanks for the feedback and alternate strategy using the service related jobs and cross referencing between sites.

My ad must be written well enough and seems to be hitting the target audience. I got home this afternoon and had three more inquiries with pictures that include full body bikini shots. I've had eleven high value coed responses and one MILF. Three coed's I've seen on SA, one of the three is an UTR, the others are fresh coed's and the MILF is divorced. Of course I'm targeting the freshie's, it must be the challenge, but that seems to be what I prefer. I've got two m&g's this week with freshie's, hopefully my game will be on point. Thanks again Richmond board! You have a beautiful thing going here.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2860428]Shaggy,

I've used a strategy akin to the one you've proposed with great success! My current rotation was filled/being filled this way, which is why I have't been active on the sugar sites. While there are downsides (e. G. Time commitment, unclear expectations, a confused pot), there are upsides (e. G. Lower likelihood of a utr, less likelihood of an SO asking why you're signed up on a sugar site, paper trail and credit card payment for a sugar site membership, etc.).

That being said, a CL ad isn't conducive to the method I've used (more on this later), but to the extent its helpful, here is the technique that I implemented, details on how I stumbled upon it, and how I came to be in my current situation.

After playing in the Bowl for a number of years now, almost all the SBs that I've gone through share one common quality. They are either students or have low paying service jobs. Most of the POTS / SBs I've encountered use SA as a means to supplement their existing income. Many of them are also signed up on various other service-job web-sites (e. G. TaskRabbit, etc.) which require them to post profiles with pictures. In my real life, I need the services that are provided by many of these different service-job related sites and while perusing the profiles of these young ladies looking for real life employment, I've come across more than quite a few profiles of young ladies who are also signed up on SA. Sure the names were different, but based on the pictures and locations, it was relatively simple to put two and two together.

I let my SA account expire, and created a new account on the service related job site I used (I can't publicly post the name of the service related job site I was using, since it would reveal more information than I'm comfortable with sharing publicly, but you're welcome to PM me for details). I then created a new profile, and filled it out using only information I used on my SA profile and attached it to an address that could only be generically associated with me (again, you're welcome to PM me for details). I paid for the subscription using a Vanilla Visa and linked all the phone information to my burner cell. Using the new account, that protected my real information, and which only used the same amount of information I've previously used on SA (with the exception of linking that profile to an address that can only be generically associated with me) I reached out to young ladies that I already knew were on SA. I then set up interviews accordingly. The interviews were essentially the same as M&G's and always set up at a coffee shop. The meetings allowed me to get a sense of the POTs, to see if they were young, eager and sweet. I was also able to verify whether pics were accurate in person. Most importantly, it let me develop rapport with the young ladies. I received responses from all the POTs I reached out to. During the meetings, after establishing rapport, I tested to see how comfortable they were with me. After the first 20 minutes, if the interaction was going well, I complimented them on something innocent, like their dress, their smile, their hair, and / or their eyes. All were asked to bring a copy of their resume to the interview, and if they reacted favorably to my compliments on their physical appearance, I asked them to pull out their resume so we could go over it together. At that point, I pulled my chair next to them to see how comfortable they were with me getting close to them physically. Five of the young ladies reacted very favorably to this, and this was the point where I initiated some very innocent physical contact. I'd ask them to point something out on their resume, and then complimented them on a ring or a bracelet they were wearing and would ask if I could take a closer look at it, while gently taking their hand in mine to get a better look. This resulted in more innocent physical contact. I set up second round interviews, and told them that because of my busy schedule, it would be easier to do the interview over dinner. In between the first and second round interviews, there were more occasional texts to build even more rapport. Two young ladies dropped out of the process at this point (maybe because my texts were too suggestive, but I prefer it this way to help avoid wasting my own time). The second round interviews were over dinner. And I also welcomed the three remaining ladies to each order as many drinks as they wanted. After a few drinks, and after each of the POTS became much more comfortable, the conversation became much more personal in nature at this point. As the conversation got more personal, I hinted at the lack of romance in my current relationship and how if I was younger, they would be the subject of my romantic interests. I also let them know that if things didn't work out with the job opportunity I had to offer, it wasn't because I didn't like them, but rather because my SO probably wouldn't be so comfortable with me working so closely with such an attractive young lady, but that regardless of the outcome, I wanted to maintain contact with them to help them out in whatever way I could.

After the second interview, I confirmed with all five that after my SO saw their picture and profile, she wasn't comfortable with how attractive they were. Three of the five dropped out at that point and have not actively responded to my last few texts (at least right now). Of the remaining two, one of the young ladies came out to me that she was on SA and asked me if a sugar relationship was something that I had ever considered. She is now actively in my rotation. Extremely low sugar allowance, where I help her out with things and provide her with nice gifts from time to time. She seems very happy to have found a way to establish a sugar relationship with someone who she thinks is a normal guy and someone she thinks she converted to a SD. Because she thinks she initiated the sugar relationship with a normal guy - I think she is happy to accept much less than what I would've normally offered to convert her to a SB. I also think that she got ultra competitive at the thought that my SO would've vetoed her for the real job I was offering, and this is her way of getting back at my SO (I purposely told them that my SO vetoed them because this sort of competition is something I expected).

I've met the second other young lady a few times since the second interview to provide mentorship and career advice. We've also gone out a few times for coffee, meals and drinks. Her comfort with me is growing and she routinely locks arms with me and gives me a hug and kiss before and after our time together. Within the next few weeks, I plan on telling her something along the lines of "this is really awkward, but I'm on SA and I think I found your profile there as well. I put my SA account in an hidden status because I hadn't had much luck recently with any of the ladies I met the past few month, but have really enjoyed our time together and wanted to see if you might be interested; since I've had a few good sugar relationships in the past, but they were mainly with young ladies like yourself ".

As previously mentioned, there are lots of downsides. It takes a lot of work to cross reference profiles. I also would never try the approach with a lady who isn't already on a sugar site. If you don't live in a major city, the cross over between a regular service job website and a sugar site are probably very low. Despite the downsides, I've found the payoff and upside to be what I'm looking for. Generally UTRs or pros are not going to also be looking for a real jobs. Making contact via another web-site, outside of the world of sugar sites allows me to message these POTs, and their subscription fees are often much lower than the fees of the sugar sites. At the end of the day, that's why we're paying SA and the other sugar sites. To give us a means to make contact with POTs, right? It also means that I don't have to worry about a POTs background information. Since most of these job service sites do a background verification anyway. Additionally, I'm able to protect all my real information and be about as anonymous as I was on SA since the service job site I use protects the information of the individuals who are offering jobs.

A few caveats that might make my situation different than yours. First, you need to find a service related job that has profile picture of the potential employee so you can cross reference profiles and reach out to them - which CL doesn't offer. After playing in the bowl for a few years, I'm very comfortable in my game, which is why interacting with these young ladies at the first and second interviews was very easy for me. Also, having spent so much time on SA previously, I'm familiar with many of the profiles, and only need to check newly created profiles for cross referencing pictures now. As it pertains to POTs being attracted to me, I'm younger than 40, in decent shape, and have been told that I'm relatively easy on the eyes.

Based on your posts, it seems like you've got a plan and intend to execute it. Frankly I'm of the opinion that every decision comes with trade-offs and at the end of the day, each individual has to perform his / her own risk / reward analysis. To those that would tell you that your plan is flawed because of too many downsides. I would respond by telling them that they mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger.

Good luck and happy hunting. Hopefully you or others will find the information above useful. If you implement the technique I've used, or a version of it, I'd be interested to hear about your successes or failures, since I suspect that information would be useful to me, to help refine my own techniques.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]I like that you're looking for LT with SB. In my opinion this is the way to go. It's more bang for the buck. Because you're in the Midwest, you may have to deliver $ugar upfront to get them to buy in. On the east coast, I've found girls don't want to shop around much if there's some commonality and a bit of attraction. With LTR the sugar demands tend to fade and it's more about companionship and the GF experience. With all things there's a bit of game and a social dynamic at play. My LTR SB had to realize that I had options and that I could easily replace her if I choose. If you've vested time in your SB and your not getting "attention that you deserve" my advice is to have a talk and be able to walk away and mean it. If she sticks around she'll be more accomodating and will come to her senses. If she's truly not interested she'll walk and there's no harm, no foul.

I started back in The Bowl after some months of neglect from the LTR SB. Once I started devoting more time to seeing other girls and not being as available, my SB came to her senses. She's now doing the things I like. I'm getting the random BJ while watching TV. She's initiating sex when she comes over more often.

The benefit of LTR SB is that you're no longer taking a hit paying an allowance. I cover her basics, similar to a boyfriend with humble means. I'd say I spend between $500-$1000 a month. That's normal dating (dinner, drinks and small gifts) As with girls that are on a SD dating site, they have their issues. The speeding ticket comes up, the plane ticket to visit family happens. Those are emergencies that a normal boyfriend couldn't handle. Expenses like that are unavoidable even with vanilla dating. The LTR doesn't get or even ask for a monthly stipend. She's just happy that finances are available if she needs them and that you're pleasant and not a prick.

The new girls do have some demands, but they are more pay for play at this time. They don't hold a candle in terms of looks and personality to my LTR SB, but I don't mind paying the minimal allowance to keep them around. They are basically hedging my relationship with my LTR. When my LTR is back fully and no longer causing headaches I'll go back to her fully. Right now, it's a break to play the field a bit and to end my neediness and attachment that I've developed.

In hindsight, my neediness is what caused her to stray and spend more time with her "girlfriends" partying and neglecting my needs. She swears she's never cheated and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because I've never caught her. I see my faults in putting her on a pedestal and becoming the "knight in shining armor". These girls want the alpha stud, which is why they sought out "Daddy" if you don't want your girl to lack in attention I realized you have to become the best version of yourself and not they guy waiting for her to call or text. I started creating a more successful and busier life and everything appears to be working itself out.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2847887]The bowl is such a mind-blower to those of us from an older generation that it's easy to get caught up in the fantasy-come-true aspect. But amidst the UTR's, the players, the GPS girls, and the way-out-there free spirits, there really are some SB's that are grounded in normalcy. It's easy to forget that behind the fantasy there can be a girl living a pretty routine life, dealing with roommates, family, friends, etc.

These girls can be quite a find, assuming you walk the fine line between enjoying the intimacy yet keeping a healthy distance.[/QUOTE]The Bowl is definitely a mind blower. I fell for a few since starting. The first girl admitted that she tried escorting. After a few months of dealing with her I found she was living with her step-dad or she'd be homeless. After prying a bit more found out her real name and a few criminal charges for underage DWI and some battery-assault charges.

Starting out coming across these type of girls. It was a relief finding a "normal SB" that had a few bills, and needed money for books. This site sort of poisoned our relationship because I was so untrusting of her. When she wasn't with me I assumed she was cheating or seeing some other SD. This was way after I had her delete her SA profile. It's best to not get too involved, but hey shit happens. When your SB starts crying because you're about to leave or threatening to break up it gets to you. I'm still unsure if LTR is possible with an SB. We all have baggage, just not sure how forgiving you should be. If you cut the sugar out and she's still around, that's telling. I did the same with my SB who became SO and she passed the test. I just have to get over being divorced and my attitude since finding this site. I assumed if my LTR SB was talking she was lying and if she's breathing, she's cheating. You have to protect yourself, but to a fault you can become abusive. I realized what I became and took a step back. Ultimately whichever girl you choose, just make sure its FUN and good times.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2862251]In hindsight, my neediness is what caused her to stray and spend more time with her "girlfriends" partying and neglecting my needs. She swears she's never cheated and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because I've never caught her. I see my faults in putting her on a pedestal and becoming the "knight in shining armor". These girls want the alpha stud, which is why they sought out "Daddy" if you don't want your girl to lack in attention I realized you have to become the best version of yourself and not they guy waiting for her to call or text. I started creating a more successful and busier life and everything appears to be working itself out.[/QUOTE]This. It's a tragic fact of dating that you can never, ever, relinquish psychological control to a woman and come out ahead. If some mad scientist ever finds a way to take the unconditional loyalty of a dog and inject it into a woman, then we have solved the problem of the ever-eroding traditional family unit. Until then, the only way to maintain a woman's loyalty is to make sure she always knows you don't really need it.

My SBs, strippers, FWBs etc. And I become fond of each other on various personal levels. But making sure I always have options and am never needy is an essential ongoing requirement even in my relationship with my "real" GF. Over time she will start to become complacent, maybe even entitled. Then occasionally something happens that brings her down to earth. The most recent event was a hot Russian hostess that flirted with me aggressively at our dinner table right in front of her, saying "if she's not your wife I can give you my number right?" (yes she was kidding but it was awkward and I was just as surprised as my GF was at her behavior, but in a different way. I was glad it happened and she was not. LOL). Or maybe I get a text from a previous ex-GF or FWB (its increasingly rare but still happens sometimes -- my SBs contact me on a different number she doesn't know about), or she looks up one of my ex-GFs on FB.

An event like that triggers her jealousy reflex and pretty much guarantees good behavior on her part for some period of time. Then complacency sets in again, and I'm reminded that being in the driver's seat of a relationship is an always on job, and it's not wise to hand the steering wheel over to anyone unless you're okay with them "forgetting" to give you a ride.

I've asked my girlfriend many times in the past, if I got hit by a truck and became a drooling vegetable tomorrow, would she still take care of me? As guessed, she says "of course". We all know better. To qualify that, I'm not an SD to my current GF. She has a decent job and earns her own keep. Buys my lunch about half the time and pays her own bills. I wouldn't stay with a single woman any other way. If I have to pay for it, why not have 2-3 different ones each week? But, my point is, would she pass the true test of love and "keep me" if I really needed it? For a while maybe, long-term all bets off.

The key there is "needing it". As a male we cannot afford to be needy. At all.

What's up with the pictures of (usually) 18 yr old SBs sticking their tongues out in their profile headliner? Are we suppose to imagine that they are open for oral? Or ready to take our cum down the hatch? IDK about you guys but I find it rather repulsive.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2864365]What's up with the pictures of (usually) 18 yr old SBs sticking their tongues out in their profile headliner? Are we suppose to imagine that they are open for oral? Or ready to take our cum down the hatch? IDK about you guys but I find it rather repulsive.[/QUOTE]When I see that, unless they have some great follow up photos, I just assume they are making a face to mask their ugliness or unworthiness to be a true sugar candidate. I'm sure that's not always the case, but yeah I don't particularly like to see it either. If there is one "goofy face" photo embedded within many "normal" ones, then I'm not too turned off by it. Another one is the fucking duck face phenomenon. I'm really not sure how it's been able to still be a thing this long. I've seen some that are making the duck face in every. Single. Photo.

I always try to think outside the box and consider theories other than my best guess. Some of them may be intentionally screwing up their faces in order to make themselves less recognizable. Some of them may be trying to make the goofiest face possible so that if someone recognizes them, they can say "oh I was just playing around on that site, did that photo look like I was serious? And so forth.

But even if they appear to be a good looking girl, it raises kind of a maturity red flag right off the bat. I'd rather they just block out part of their face and send better photos privately -- I'm more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how they describe themselves in their profile than I am to reverse damage done by the image a really stupid headline photo leaves in my mind.

Another increasingly popular annoyance is weird hair (dreadlocks on white girls, extremely odd colors etc).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2864439]When I see that, unless they have some great follow up photos, I just assume they are making a face to mask their ugliness or unworthiness to be a true sugar candidate. I'm sure that's not always the case, but yeah I don't particularly like to see it either. If there is one "goofy face" photo embedded within many "normal" ones, then I'm not too turned off by it. Another one is the fucking duck face phenomenon. I'm really not sure how it's been able to still be a thing this long. I've seen some that are making the duck face in every. Single. Photo.

I always try to think outside the box and consider theories other than my best guess. Some of them may be intentionally screwing up their faces in order to make themselves less recognizable. Some of them may be trying to make the goofiest face possible so that if someone recognizes them, they can say "oh I was just playing around on that site, did that photo look like I was serious? And so forth.

But even if they appear to be a good looking girl, it raises kind of a maturity red flag right off the bat. I'd rather they just block out part of their face and send better photos privately -- I'm more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how they describe themselves in their profile than I am to reverse damage done by the image a really stupid headline photo leaves in my mind.

Another increasingly popular annoyance is weird hair (dreadlocks on white girls, extremely odd colors etc).[/QUOTE]At 18 they are still giggly ass kids LOL. The different hair doesn't bother me. What I don't get into is anyone who acts or plays ghetto. Major turn off.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2864591]At 18 they are still giggly ass kids LOL. The different hair doesn't bother me. What I don't get into is anyone who acts or plays ghetto. Major turn off.[/QUOTE]FB comes in handy (sometimes) in eliminating those types. I care not only about how they act but the company they keep. Some girls post classy looking pictures of themselves, but their RL behavior and their choice of friends is anything but. I may have dodged a few bullets literally just by investing in research.

What are you guys putting as budget on your SA profile? I paid no mind to it and put practical. Well today a POT that I had been messaging asked how can I afford up 3,000 a month based on my income I was showing. I told her how many guys do you think are posting their real income. I don't post mine as I am not looking to attract greedy babies. She read it but didn't reply so I guess that date ain't going to happen.

Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2867641]Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?[/QUOTE]Take them to NC and see what bathroom they use.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2867641]Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?[/QUOTE]Some of the "women" are straight up adn will say on their profile that they are transitioning.

One way to tell for sure, women do not have adam's apple, the enlargement of the thyroid cartilage surrounding the larynx.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2867121]What are you guys putting as budget on your SA profile? I paid no mind to it and put practical. Well today a POT that I had been messaging asked how can I afford up 3,000 a month based on my income I was showing. I told her how many guys do you think are posting their real income. I don't post mine as I am not looking to attract greedy babies. She read it but didn't reply so I guess that date ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]I think it is fair to assume any girl asking that question isn't worthy of a reply. Any girl asking up front about money, shows where her focus is. Don't sweat it just go to the next one.