"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]The problem with that approach is you are playing into the "What's Your Price" model of older-younger dating. WYP girls expect money (100-200) for platonic dinner dates. Doing that and it seems one is setting themself up to be rinsed by a smart girl. Sounds like all of them got a nice free dinner out of you, something they wouldn't get from their peers.

The nice thing about the SB sites is that the girls have already self identified as being available for the SB model.

Maybe others will provide techniques one can use? But at some point one has to decide if it is the bait or one is fishing in the wrong pond? Fwiw.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]Jeez. Once again your answer nailed it. My field is human resources / recruiting / interviewing and that would def be the human nature response of the "candidates".

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]The wrong girl responding for a job that takes offense might put you on uncle LEO radar. I would love to hear that conversation LOL.

I'd stick with the sites that cater to what your looking for.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I think there is a possibility to find yourself arrested using this model. I read an article a while back (that I can't find now) about a UC cop that went after someone doing what you're doing. He was arrested. Be careful.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I appreciate you'll taking the time for advising and giving your inputs on strategy. JL, I'm not as eloquent with the phrasing of the ad, you have a gift, but I did use words that hint at this not being a typical job, include was, in not the same words, a requirement to be my companion for varied social activities, travel and alone time, required physical characteristic, intelligence level, age range and preference on college girls. I believe that is what peaks the curiosity and has enabled the M&Gs. They are fully aware on the job requirements long before we get to that point. I think the pond I'm fishing in is the girls who have thought or are curious about being a SB, but don't want to do it publicly on a site. The young lady who backed out of the arrangement still texts me all the time, I just think she was not fully comfortable and is building that comfort now. I'm going to make another run at her soon. After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. I've had a few fresh SBs, but the time and effort weeding them out is as difficult as my other approach. Getting laid by a low volume utr is not a problem, I'm looking for something with less mileage.

Thanks brothers, really appreciate all the feedback, valuable stuff in this game.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2859816]The problem with that approach is you are playing into the "What's Your Price" model of older-younger dating. WYP girls expect money (100-200) for platonic dinner dates. Doing that and it seems one is setting themself up to be rinsed by a smart girl. Sounds like all of them got a nice free dinner out of you, something they wouldn't get from their peers.

The nice thing about the SB sites is that the girls have already self identified as being available for the SB model.

Maybe others will provide techniques one can use? But at some point one has to decide if it is the bait or one is fishing in the wrong pond? Fwiw.[/QUOTE]I agree, using a SB site does cut the red tape by a lot. However, I have met a few SB off of a SB site and they were very sweet and you can tell they haven't done this.

Before. Then at the last minute they get cold feet. I was lucky enough to take a cute young college girl to the Fuck Chamber a few times and not pay for it.

However, she eventually got cold feet. So bottom line is going to a SB site does cut the red tape but there are some SB on those sites that may get cold feet.

However, I am very interested in your ad approach. I may have to test that one. I did do something similar a few months back. I put an ad on CL looking for a "dating coach".

I actually got two responses but when they sent me their pic I had to pass. LOL What other ideas have people tried. This could be an interesting topic.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I just wanted to say that this is a great idea! I completely agree about being a little more forward in the ad. Damn I wish I was still in the game so I can try this shit out LOL.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2860176] After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. [/QUOTE]I'm a big fan of tweaking tactics for specific geographic regions, I have found that I have to adjust my game for different cities. Aside from the traveling UTR type (who will largely behave however she does because she lives out of hotel rooms and is disconnected from her environment), women are influenced by where they reside, the male / female ratio in that city, etc. And customizing your game for a region pays off big. If you aren't comfortable divulging the area publically, I'll leave open the option of PMing me the area, and once I understand the playing field a little better I may be able to help somewhat. My first thought is that if you don't have enough college girls in your area to populate the sites with college babies, you'll have trouble filling your employment positions with similarly-minded college babies, but it's hard to know without further examining the situation in that city a bit.

Geography aside, the real challenge here is that you're going after a very specific type of girl, using a very specific method of doing it (in a market that may already have inherent challenges). This means that no matter the amount of game you develop, your successes may be few and far between. Cast a wide net for fishing at large and you'll catch lots of fish. Use a specific type of unique bait to target a very specific species of fish, and you'll need lots of patience. Sure, you can strike gold and you probably will in time, but developing a method for consistent results is going to be somewhere between difficult and impossible.

I once had a gem of a Filipina girl who never expected more of me financially than buying her a few drinks. In fact, if I visited her at her work, she would bring me free food. She loved sex and would rock my balls raw, but she had a serious aversion to semen and sucking cock, therefore (and I was honest about this) she was never going to be anything to me but a friend and occasional booty call, as she did not have that 100% daddy-pleasing attitude I require. Our quid pro quo became simply sex for sex, we both liked it equally even though I was missing what I really want. One day she tells me she started a house cleaning business for extra income, and said if I let her clean my place, she will fuck me silly whenever I want and not even get in the way of me and "my girlfriends" as she put it. I had a better idea, I decided to advertise for a housekeeper / cook etc. , with wording specifically designed to narrow down my preferred demographic. I got tons of bites, did a few interviews but ultimately came to the conclusion that the general freelance housekeeper population is not really hot enough for the type of role I had in mind (I also got tired of listening voice mails from 60 yr old AA women who didn't or couldn't read between the lines of the ad wording), so I dropped the idea. Too small a net, too specific a target, too much work to find what I wanted to fulfill the fantasy. I see what you're trying to do as a similarly challenging task as my search for a hot fuck-maid was.

Also I agree with others, advertising a legit job then introducing the sexual requirement could attract unwanted legal attention, so it's something to approach carefully.

Shaggy,

I've used a strategy akin to the one you've proposed with great success! My current rotation was filled/being filled this way, which is why I have't been active on the sugar sites. While there are downsides (e. G. Time commitment, unclear expectations, a confused pot), there are upsides (e. G. Lower likelihood of a utr, less likelihood of an SO asking why you're signed up on a sugar site, paper trail and credit card payment for a sugar site membership, etc.).

That being said, a CL ad isn't conducive to the method I've used (more on this later), but to the extent its helpful, here is the technique that I implemented, details on how I stumbled upon it, and how I came to be in my current situation.

After playing in the Bowl for a number of years now, almost all the SBs that I've gone through share one common quality. They are either students or have low paying service jobs. Most of the POTS / SBs I've encountered use SA as a means to supplement their existing income. Many of them are also signed up on various other service-job web-sites (e. G. TaskRabbit, etc.) which require them to post profiles with pictures. In my real life, I need the services that are provided by many of these different service-job related sites and while perusing the profiles of these young ladies looking for real life employment, I've come across more than quite a few profiles of young ladies who are also signed up on SA. Sure the names were different, but based on the pictures and locations, it was relatively simple to put two and two together.

I let my SA account expire, and created a new account on the service related job site I used (I can't publicly post the name of the service related job site I was using, since it would reveal more information than I'm comfortable with sharing publicly, but you're welcome to PM me for details). I then created a new profile, and filled it out using only information I used on my SA profile and attached it to an address that could only be generically associated with me (again, you're welcome to PM me for details). I paid for the subscription using a Vanilla Visa and linked all the phone information to my burner cell. Using the new account, that protected my real information, and which only used the same amount of information I've previously used on SA (with the exception of linking that profile to an address that can only be generically associated with me) I reached out to young ladies that I already knew were on SA. I then set up interviews accordingly. The interviews were essentially the same as M&G's and always set up at a coffee shop. The meetings allowed me to get a sense of the POTs, to see if they were young, eager and sweet. I was also able to verify whether pics were accurate in person. Most importantly, it let me develop rapport with the young ladies. I received responses from all the POTs I reached out to. During the meetings, after establishing rapport, I tested to see how comfortable they were with me. After the first 20 minutes, if the interaction was going well, I complimented them on something innocent, like their dress, their smile, their hair, and / or their eyes. All were asked to bring a copy of their resume to the interview, and if they reacted favorably to my compliments on their physical appearance, I asked them to pull out their resume so we could go over it together. At that point, I pulled my chair next to them to see how comfortable they were with me getting close to them physically. Five of the young ladies reacted very favorably to this, and this was the point where I initiated some very innocent physical contact. I'd ask them to point something out on their resume, and then complimented them on a ring or a bracelet they were wearing and would ask if I could take a closer look at it, while gently taking their hand in mine to get a better look. This resulted in more innocent physical contact. I set up second round interviews, and told them that because of my busy schedule, it would be easier to do the interview over dinner. In between the first and second round interviews, there were more occasional texts to build even more rapport. Two young ladies dropped out of the process at this point (maybe because my texts were too suggestive, but I prefer it this way to help avoid wasting my own time). The second round interviews were over dinner. And I also welcomed the three remaining ladies to each order as many drinks as they wanted. After a few drinks, and after each of the POTS became much more comfortable, the conversation became much more personal in nature at this point. As the conversation got more personal, I hinted at the lack of romance in my current relationship and how if I was younger, they would be the subject of my romantic interests. I also let them know that if things didn't work out with the job opportunity I had to offer, it wasn't because I didn't like them, but rather because my SO probably wouldn't be so comfortable with me working so closely with such an attractive young lady, but that regardless of the outcome, I wanted to maintain contact with them to help them out in whatever way I could.

After the second interview, I confirmed with all five that after my SO saw their picture and profile, she wasn't comfortable with how attractive they were. Three of the five dropped out at that point and have not actively responded to my last few texts (at least right now). Of the remaining two, one of the young ladies came out to me that she was on SA and asked me if a sugar relationship was something that I had ever considered. She is now actively in my rotation. Extremely low sugar allowance, where I help her out with things and provide her with nice gifts from time to time. She seems very happy to have found a way to establish a sugar relationship with someone who she thinks is a normal guy and someone she thinks she converted to a SD. Because she thinks she initiated the sugar relationship with a normal guy - I think she is happy to accept much less than what I would've normally offered to convert her to a SB. I also think that she got ultra competitive at the thought that my SO would've vetoed her for the real job I was offering, and this is her way of getting back at my SO (I purposely told them that my SO vetoed them because this sort of competition is something I expected).

I've met the second other young lady a few times since the second interview to provide mentorship and career advice. We've also gone out a few times for coffee, meals and drinks. Her comfort with me is growing and she routinely locks arms with me and gives me a hug and kiss before and after our time together. Within the next few weeks, I plan on telling her something along the lines of "this is really awkward, but I'm on SA and I think I found your profile there as well. I put my SA account in an hidden status because I hadn't had much luck recently with any of the ladies I met the past few month, but have really enjoyed our time together and wanted to see if you might be interested; since I've had a few good sugar relationships in the past, but they were mainly with young ladies like yourself ".

As previously mentioned, there are lots of downsides. It takes a lot of work to cross reference profiles. I also would never try the approach with a lady who isn't already on a sugar site. If you don't live in a major city, the cross over between a regular service job website and a sugar site are probably very low. Despite the downsides, I've found the payoff and upside to be what I'm looking for. Generally UTRs or pros are not going to also be looking for a real jobs. Making contact via another web-site, outside of the world of sugar sites allows me to message these POTs, and their subscription fees are often much lower than the fees of the sugar sites. At the end of the day, that's why we're paying SA and the other sugar sites. To give us a means to make contact with POTs, right? It also means that I don't have to worry about a POTs background information. Since most of these job service sites do a background verification anyway. Additionally, I'm able to protect all my real information and be about as anonymous as I was on SA since the service job site I use protects the information of the individuals who are offering jobs.

A few caveats that might make my situation different than yours. First, you need to find a service related job that has profile picture of the potential employee so you can cross reference profiles and reach out to them - which CL doesn't offer. After playing in the bowl for a few years, I'm very comfortable in my game, which is why interacting with these young ladies at the first and second interviews was very easy for me. Also, having spent so much time on SA previously, I'm familiar with many of the profiles, and only need to check newly created profiles for cross referencing pictures now. As it pertains to POTs being attracted to me, I'm younger than 40, in decent shape, and have been told that I'm relatively easy on the eyes.

Based on your posts, it seems like you've got a plan and intend to execute it. Frankly I'm of the opinion that every decision comes with trade-offs and at the end of the day, each individual has to perform his / her own risk / reward analysis. To those that would tell you that your plan is flawed because of too many downsides. I would respond by telling them that they mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger.

Good luck and happy hunting. Hopefully you or others will find the information above useful. If you implement the technique I've used, or a version of it, I'd be interested to hear about your successes or failures, since I suspect that information would be useful to me, to help refine my own techniques.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2860176]I appreciate you'll taking the time for advising and giving your inputs on strategy. JL, I'm not as eloquent with the phrasing of the ad, you have a gift, but I did use words that hint at this not being a typical job, include was, in not the same words, a requirement to be my companion for varied social activities, travel and alone time, required physical characteristic, intelligence level, age range and preference on college girls. I believe that is what peaks the curiosity and has enabled the M&Gs. They are fully aware on the job requirements long before we get to that point. I think the pond I'm fishing in is the girls who have thought or are curious about being a SB, but don't want to do it publicly on a site. The young lady who backed out of the arrangement still texts me all the time, I just think she was not fully comfortable and is building that comfort now. I'm going to make another run at her soon. After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. I've had a few fresh SBs, but the time and effort weeding them out is as difficult as my other approach. Getting laid by a low volume utr is not a problem, I'm looking for something with less mileage.

Thanks brothers, really appreciate all the feedback, valuable stuff in this game.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2860292]I agree, using a SB site does cut the red tape by a lot. However, I have met a few SB off of a SB site and they were very sweet and you can tell they haven't done this.

Before. Then at the last minute they get cold feet. I was lucky enough to take a cute young college girl to the Fuck Chamber a few times and not pay for it.

However, she eventually got cold feet. So bottom line is going to a SB site does cut the red tape but there are some SB on those sites that may get cold feet.

However, I am very interested in your ad approach. I may have to test that one. I did do something similar a few months back. I put an ad on CL looking for a "dating coach".

I actually got two responses but when they sent me their pic I had to pass. LOL What other ideas have people tried. This could be an interesting topic.[/QUOTE]

Stormy. Apologies for not responding sooner to your post about my "groundhog day" method. Things have been a bit crazy, as I've been busy implementing other ideas.

As an aside, if you find a POT who is on SA that wouldn't M&G with you, but who has a profile up on a different non-sugar service job website you might find that she is much more willing to meet with you for an interview for a real job. This is important because if you search my prior posts, look for one titled "MoneyBowl", where I broke down my FC success to failure ratio based on messages sent out, replies received, and then M&G's that were established. In a nutshell, I've found, based on the numbers and the stats, that setting up the M&G/face-to-face meeting is the toughest part of getting to the FC. Once you meet in person, getting to the FC is just a matter of your game. Especially when a young lady already has it in her head that she's willing to consider the sugar lifestyle.

I know that some will criticize the method for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day, I only offer real-job interviews to ladies who I already know are on sugar sites. Also, if they truly impress me, I probably would consider offering them a position for the real life job, although that would mean that I couldn't play with them in the bowl (because they would know my real information at that point). At the end of the day, I offer them a choice, and if they're willing to consider, or want, a sugar relationship rather than the real job, who am I to say no?

Finally, one other benefit of using a real-service job website to reach out to ladies who are also on SA, is that you generally don't need to post a profile picture with the real job websites to generate interest for a face to face meeting. Then when you do meet face to face, if the young lady finds you attractive, all the more power to you.


[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2841307]I jumped into the bowl last summer and after reading many helpful posts on this forum basically started off with the 5 step approach (courtesy of HWG). Feel like I have had moderate success with 14 in the FC (most w / o M & Gs), of which 8 have been multiple visits. I would be interested to hear opinions from the forum brothers regarding the idea of setting up a 2nd page. Obviously there is an additional cost (SA and a 2nd burner phone).

Here are 3 reasons that led me to adding a 2nd page two months ago. First I was second guessing my 5 step approach since a high % were either ignoring my initial message or flaking out after a few good messages. Wanted to give it the bill murray / groundhog day "redo"and revisit some of my favorite picks. The 2nd reason was to create a completely different persona for my second page. My first page was more of a rebel type whereas my second page allowed my to go with a button down shirt kind of look. Now I have some options on which page to use for certain POTs. Also if they don't respond to the first one or I strike out on the convos I have a planB available.

The third reason is one that popped into my head a couple of weeks after setting this up and is one that may have some brothers either shooting arrows at me (ethics) or applauding me. At the time I was in my fourth week with a 18 yr old new to SA. We were seeing each other weekly for either two short nites (5 pm - 11 pm) or one overnight in local hotels. I was budgeting about 1200 a month for her, plus hotels and diner type meals but I was her only source of income (no car, no fixed place to stay accept with grandparents or friends) and I knew it was not enough. I started to encourage her to consider getting a second SD (or a job LOL), partly bc I knew she was still active on SA, but she adamantly made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me. When I commented about her being on her SA site almost every day she replied she had given account access to a GF. Well, you know where I am going with this. I reached out to her thru my 2nd page and frankly it was one of the easiest hotel dates I have ever set up. Not only did she reschedule one of our dates to meet SD # 2 she even had the balls to message him (me) one morning after an overnight during breakfast (I matched up the SA time line). I thought long and hard about showing up for the SD # 2 date but elected to cancel the hotel date the day before. Without getting into extra details the end of this story has her admitting she was trying to add a SD # 2 and we agreed to take a break for a while. She has since texted me several times about restarting which I probably will seriously consider.

A 2nd page obviously requires extra expense and good organization. My SD # 1 phone is a burner w / o data but my SD # 2 phone is a smart phone with both accounts set up on it, so when it "ding dings" I can see which page got the hit. I give out separate cell #s and email addresses according to whichever page the POT is connecting to me on. I keep excel sheets for both pages to track the history of both who I meet and who I have cell # on, FB pages etc. Is it worth it in the long run? I don't know, but it does add an extra twist to the game. Thoughts? Comments?[/QUOTE]

In order to avoid from having to answer too many PMs here are ten of various occupations that many if not most of the POTs I've encountered list or engage in while also trying to land a SD:

1. Personal Trainer, 2. Nurse, 3. Nanny, 4. Baby Sitter, 5. Tutor, 6. Pet Sitter, 8. Housekeeper / cleaner, 9. Model, 10. Administrative assistant.

I've only perused a few of the websites below, and so have no idea how the communications systems work, but assume the websites simply act as a conduit to put you in touch with the person looking for employment.

1. [URL]https://www.acefitness.org/acefit/trainer_results.aspx?searchtype=byzip&country=US&zip=20006&radius=100&sortBy=Distance&sortOrder=A&province=[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles for personal training needs.

2. [URL]https://petsitter.com/pet-sitters/richmond[/URL], virginia.

When you want to browse profiles for pet sitting needs.

3. [URL]http://www.varsitytutors.com/tutors-washington_dc-dc?mobile=false&page=3&proto=http%3a%2f%2f[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of tutors.

4. [URL]https://www.care.com/nannies/arlington-va[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of nannies.

5. [URL]https://www.taskrabbit.com/tasks/a/recommendations?uuid=78cdb974-0bd9-4900-a39d-b0f754b76a40[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of cleaners.

6. http://www.modelmayhem.com/browse/model/us/maryland/baltimore?sr_token=f2bd2dc4768de1aadf66b36c31e29e7c&fm_action=search&show_advanced=0&artist_type%5B%5D=1&member_name=&f_gender=Female&display=details&sort_by=1&country=US&state=4102&city=2745539&zipcode=&radius=0.25&submit=

When you want to browse profiles of "models." And btw, anyone with a DSLR camera can call themselves a photographer these days...a decent one will run around $1 K and is well worth the investment.

I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]Allowances are goi g to be negotiable as to what is e pected. Not everyone has the same needs so allowances are going to run for little or nothing to big money. Now for the bid money you should have pretty close to 24/7 at your beckon call. Women can put on good shows so thinking you have a connection can be misleading. I have talked to numerous girls who had ltr and was there because of the money. Most didn't even like the guy.

Now my test is after reaching an agreement will tell them after 3-4 months that something came up and the sugar is gone. If they bolt then you know its the money, if they hang you have a connection. Now most guys here are just hit it and move on. If that's your taste plenty of utr and pros here at BP prices.