"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2847377]Semi-normal? What is that? No surprise that an inexperienced very young girl might get cold feet in the middle of the game? Perhaps she got found out by her roomie or BFF and when that embarrassment hit she backed out with a face saving excuse about taking money from your family? But nothing in what was reported about her sounds like she was inappropriate or "not normal."[/QUOTE]The bowl is such a mind-blower to those of us from an older generation that it's easy to get caught up in the fantasy-come-true aspect. But amidst the UTR's, the players, the GPS girls, and the way-out-there free spirits, there really are some SB's that are grounded in normalcy. It's easy to forget that behind the fantasy there can be a girl living a pretty routine life, dealing with roommates, family, friends, etc.

These girls can be quite a find, assuming you walk the fine line between enjoying the intimacy yet keeping a healthy distance.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2846120]Don't know her but with a Substantial ask and well enhanced Boobs I would go for Pro. But of course I am profiling shamelessly. She could be a clueless hottie who doen't know what Substantial allowance means, but I doubt it. Are you in the Sub. Category? Be prepared for a $5-10,000 / month ask.[/QUOTE]I do find that their expectation selection (substantial, moderate etc.) does often provide a bit of insight into what they were thinking at the time they set up (or last edited their profile), and no doubt in some cases it reflects their ongoing perception of self-value.

However I've learned to ignore it. I'm of the belief that anything that involves the female mind is ALWAYS AND UNCONDITIONALLY NEGOTIABLE. Us Men are different, much more rule-based. We set rules and boundaries and then you have to pry them from our cold dead fingers. Women don't think like that. How negotiable they are depends on the individual, the geographical region, amount of game he has, amount of game she has, chemistry between the two, etc.

Part of the fun for me is the craft of invoking ego-regression on their part. Watching them go from "So, tell me how you're going to spoil me" down the chain to "well if I could just get a couple of my bills paid each month I'd be happy with that". Sometimes all the way down to "ok it doesn't have to be about money at all I just want to meet because I'm not interested in guys my age", etc. It doesn't always go that swimmingly of course, but when it does, it's a fun thing to have been responsible for making happen.

Point is, feel free to ignore "expectation". Expectation and reality are different.

About enhanced boobs though. I've had a very different experiences here, I find boob surgery to be fairly common these days. It's cost-effective enough now that pretty much every girl that wants it already has had breast enhancement surgery. If they can afford multiple tattoos they can afford a boob job with even a little extra patience and saving. A lot of my dates over the years have had enhanced boobs, some of them so subtle there is no way you would know they'd had work done (because they didn't go overboard) until they told you. So basically these days if you see a pair of boobs that looks particularly nice, unless they feel like two bagfuls of warm butter, just assume there is some enhancement there. The good boob jobs have a naturally small look to them and just add overall perkiness and shape, they don't look like the bolt-on bubbles you see on porn stars and strippers.

I could just never associate boob jobs with being a pro. Other behaviors that have been discussed in the past are more accurate indicators I think.

I agree here. It's refreshing having a nice college super hot SB who has a normal life, looks up to you because of everything you can offer, provides all the tightness that your current SO lacks, and who doesn't bring drama.

Like Walruscl notes, the bowl is filled with undesireables that SDs deal with, but its nice having a SB that is grounded in normalcy (except for when she is with you, banging your brains out and doing everything a good girl shouldn't).

While the younger generation has a different attitude about sex, in my humble opinion, most sbs I meet would prefer one SD. That being said, the most "normal" and faithful SBs I've had were the ones that had a boyfriend or a SO.

My best sugar relationships have been situations where we were both truly an escape for each other from otherwise "normal" lives, and would have otherwise been attracted to each other - irrespective of the fact that we met through a sugar site. The prospect of sugar brings the babies to the bowl. A combination of sugar, game, and chemistry (in varying parts depending on the individuals involved) get you to the FC, and then chemistry is what keeps the sugar relationship going.

Just my two cents based on my experience.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2847887]The bowl is such a mind-blower to those of us from an older generation that it's easy to get caught up in the fantasy-come-true aspect. But amidst the UTR's, the players, the GPS girls, and the way-out-there free spirits, there really are some SB's that are grounded in normalcy. It's easy to forget that behind the fantasy there can be a girl living a pretty routine life, dealing with roommates, family, friends, etc.

These girls can be quite a find, assuming you walk the fine line between enjoying the intimacy yet keeping a healthy distance.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2848239]
Part of the fun for me is the craft of invoking ego-regression on their part. Watching them go from "So, tell me how you're going to spoil me" down the chain to "well if I could just get a couple of my bills paid each month I'd be happy with that". Sometimes all the way down to "ok it doesn't have to be about money at all I just want to meet because I'm not interested in guys my age", etc. It doesn't always go that swimmingly of course, but when it does, it's a fun thing to have been responsible for making happen.

Point is, feel free to ignore "expectation". Expectation and reality are different.
[/QUOTE]I have to fully agree here. There have been cases where they asked High and settled for.

Wow I can really have a climax with a male. I never had one.

Plus YES thank you for helping me with my resume.

Plus thanks for texting me back so quickly always (my friends sometimes take 6 hours before they respond).

And Oh I only need my car payment paid every month ($150).

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2846055]Hey Folks,

I need some help. I have a M&G set up with a girl here in RVA and I have not been able to find out anything about her. I have her number and access to her private pics but my regular search process has not revealed any results. So I need to ask if anyone has seen or met with Scarlet J12 in the RVA area. I know some of you guys don't like to share info, but if you would be willing to PM me with any info I will be very grateful. She is a 27 year old blonde. I suspect she could be UTR or a pro and would like to know what I am walking into. She has not asked for any $ but just looking for info.

Thanks,

Starkey.[/QUOTE]Lately. I often can't find out much about a POT. Just make sure and meet in a public place, and be aware of your surroundings. Trust your gut!

[QUOTE=FScott;2846005]Holy shit, Bike! I just downloaded this and gave it a test spin. It's fantastic. It pulled up two hotel rooms near me for a third of what they would normally rent for overnight, indicated they were available immediately and I could book through the app and pay when I checked in!

I'm certain another SD invented this app, and I'll kiss him too!

Peace,

Scott.[/QUOTE]LOL. A drink will suffice! Or introduce me to that yoga teacher from way back! .

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2848239]
Part of the fun for me is the craft of invoking ego-regression on their part. Watching them go from "So, tell me how you're going to spoil me" down the chain to "well if I could just get a couple of my bills paid each month I'd be happy with that". Sometimes all the way down to "ok it doesn't have to be about money at all I just want to meet because I'm not interested in guys my age", etc. It doesn't always go that swimmingly of course, but when it does, it's a fun thing to have been responsible for making happen.
[/QUOTE]Kind sir, I think elucidation on the techniques used in this ego-regression process might be quite illuminating for the thread.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2848893]Kind sir, I think elucidation on the techniques used in this ego-regression process might be quite illuminating for the thread.[/QUOTE]First I have found that most girls on sa have know idea as to what substantial or any of them actually means. For each and everyone its something different and most are negotiable unless they are a seasoned hardcore sb who has had a very good arrangement. The negotiating of them down is not hard but then became they do come down we pat ourselves on the back thinking how much this girl is into us. As long as she is taking are money don't be fooled. Cut the money off and if she is still fucking you then pat urself on the back and well played.

Still a rookie here. I have received some good advice, which I appreciate. Can someone steer me to the sites you use to post and search profiles? Thanks!

So as an update, I pushed our M&G to next week. Just to give me more time. To see if info was available about her and to see how my other meetings go this week (I may not need to bother). Based on her pics, BTW, I'm not 100% sure that they are fake. But I agree with Jeez's point. That's what makes her a bit tough to peg. She's been nothing but great in our conversations. She has not been pushy or demanding. She has not brought money up at all (and neither have I). Frequently, I find that the Pros seem to bring up money quickly. We are scheduled to have lunch next week at a very public restaurant and my only investment is paying for that lunch. Frankly, I'm not sure I have anything to lose. If a hot chick wants me to take her to lunch, I'll go. If she drops some ridiculous amount during our discussions I'll just say thanks and walk away. But with most of the pros or really GPS chicks I've dealt with in the past, money comes up early in the conversation. Who knows, maybe she has been a victim of her appearance. We all tend to look at a bombshell and assume she's going to require a shit load of money and have lots of demands. This girl has shown no attitude at all so far. So I guess I'll let you know how it goes.

Stark.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2848239]I do find that their expectation selection (substantial, moderate etc.) does often provide a bit of insight into what they were thinking at the time they set up (or last edited their profile), and no doubt in some cases it reflects their ongoing perception of self-value.

However I've learned to ignore it. I'm of the belief that anything that involves the female mind is ALWAYS AND UNCONDITIONALLY NEGOTIABLE. Us Men are different, much more rule-based. We set rules and boundaries and then you have to pry them from our cold dead fingers. Women don't think like that. How negotiable they are depends on the individual, the geographical region, amount of game he has, amount of game she has, chemistry between the two, etc.

Part of the fun for me is the craft of invoking ego-regression on their part. Watching them go from "So, tell me how you're going to spoil me" down the chain to "well if I could just get a couple of my bills paid each month I'd be happy with that". Sometimes all the way down to "ok it doesn't have to be about money at all I just want to meet because I'm not interested in guys my age", etc. It doesn't always go that swimmingly of course, but when it does, it's a fun thing to have been responsible for making happen.

Point is, feel free to ignore "expectation". Expectation and reality are different.

About enhanced boobs though. I've had a very different experiences here, I find boob surgery to be fairly common these days. It's cost-effective enough now that pretty much every girl that wants it already has had breast enhancement surgery. If they can afford multiple tattoos they can afford a boob job with even a little extra patience and saving. A lot of my dates over the years have had enhanced boobs, some of them so subtle there is no way you would know they'd had work done (because they didn't go overboard) until they told you. So basically these days if you see a pair of boobs that looks particularly nice, unless they feel like two bagfuls of warm butter, just assume there is some enhancement there. The good boob jobs have a naturally small look to them and just add overall perkiness and shape, they don't look like the bolt-on bubbles you see on porn stars and strippers.

I could just never associate boob jobs with being a pro. Other behaviors that have been discussed in the past are more accurate indicators I think.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2848929]First I have found that most girls on sa have know idea as to what substantial or any of them actually means. For each and everyone its something different and most are negotiable unless they are a seasoned hardcore sb who has had a very good arrangement. The negotiating of them down is not hard but then became they do come down we pat ourselves on the back thinking how much this girl is into us. As long as she is taking are money don't be fooled. Cut the money off and if she is still fucking you then pat urself on the back and well played.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, but we all go back and forth excusing these little lovelies for "not knowing" what the lifestyle expectations mean. But most of them can read and click on the section that they want to put in their Profile. I believe that many-possibly most--throw a hail mary looking for the Unicorn in the end zone, but are at least realistic enough to adjust to a market price offered. Some are playing around and will never deal, thinking that putting in writing "their worth" will validate them to the world at large. Others don't want to sell themselves to the highest bidder but an amount of money so large that it would seriously change their life is too good to pass up. Sadly, the Unicorn seldom comes along and they fade away into ignominy. The bottom line is -everyone has their price -and you only have to ask to find out.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2848893]Kind sir, I think elucidation on the techniques used in this ego-regression process might be quite illuminating for the thread.[/QUOTE]I have actually written an embarrassing amount here in this thread about my techniques. I say an embarrassing amount because I always told myself I would never give up the amount of information I've released into the wild here over the last couple of years. The problem with secrets to success in running game on women is that the moment you give them away, you undermine your own future success. It's kind of the same feeling of the magician doesn't want to reveal the secrets behind a magic trick, even to an elite group of private friends, because he knows sooner or later the tricks will be devalued by word of mouth.

Even still, I revealed an insane number of my tricks here. Problem is, a few of them are referenced in the index thread, a lot of them are not, so they have become buried in the sheer volume of the thread and probably difficult to mine without reading lots of the contextual posts around them. I suspect it would be a test of time and patience to sort it all out, but doing so would be beneficial toward getting an understanding of the philosophies required to properly execute ego-regression on a young lady.

However, it's important to note that it comes down to just that -- it's the grasp of the philosophies that leads to repeated successes. There is no 5-step form letter that can be bulk mailed that will do it, there is no failsafe approach that works with all ladies. Each female is different and what pushes the right buttons of one might repel another. It is a complex psychological process that becomes refined through practice and focus, and learning to say the right thing at the right time.

There is a "poor man's" version of ego-regression that used to be discussed in the PUA community known as "negging", which is basically an underhanded insult veiled as a compliment that is designed to weaken her ego without her realizing what you're doing. To be honest I do see value in the technique, but it's primary value is in that it's good training-wheels for guys who have very limited experience gaming women. Ego-regression is related to negging, but it's more of an advanced technique (harder to describe how to do than negging, much more difficult to pull off, but with a much higher potential return on effort).

I'll try to illustrate with an example:

1. Beginner PUA decides to execute a "neg", so he chooses a feature he feels she may be insecure about, maybe her boob size, so he says "I really like your boobs", hoping to both gain points for complimenting her while at the same time amping up her insecurity to his advantage.

2. JL decides to run some ego-regression on her, instead of focusing on body parts, takes the conversation down a road that lets her to talk about herself and her future plans (which she loves, egos love to talk about themselves), but simultaneously he is really leading her to a place where she is describing herself in 10 years, after the beauty has faded, and he's painting her into a corner where she is forced to imagine what her future life will be like if she simply lives for the highest bidder of the day, as opposed to going forward and sliding into the fuck chamber with JL, who is clearly not the highest bidder but might actually be the guy who is still interested after the beauty fades. Yet, he didn't say it. She did. Her own ego lead her to imagine a bleak future for herself. Do you see how both forces are at work there? Her ego candle is being burnt at both ends.

The negging in #1 will often backfire, first of all because a lot of these girls know what it is (they invented it, they've been using it against guys for hundreds of years). The ego-regression in #2 is impervious to the same flaw, because we all know men get better with age and life's success, thus are not subject to "beauty fades syndrome".

That's just one example, but it really is a combination of philosophy and psychology. The most important thing to remember is game is game. It doesn't matter if it's traditional dating, sugar dating, or hunting for takeout in strip clubs. Women actually know when they've been properly gamed, but rather than feel used or manipulated they actually not only RESPECT this in a man, they actively seek it out. They WANT a guy who is a master manipulator of women.

As I said though, there is not a laundry list of techniques that will work in all situations. The second scenario above would completely backfire with certain girls. The most important part of the game is learning to recognize what technique will work on which girl, and modifying the technique slightly to tailor it to the situation.

If there is one tip that I find is a constant, is that regardless of our age we need to be in the best physical shape we possibly can (and I don't mean being a natural born body builder or anything, I just being our in-shape selves as opposed to our "comfortable" selves. There is a lengthy post somewhere in this thread on the importance of healthy diet and exercise to running game, from the circulatory benefits to natural testosterone boosting benefits. Being in the best shape you possibly can is probably the only tip I could offer that can be summarized in a sentence or two. It has benefits that pays dividends over and over, not only in terms of raw sexual performance, but it greatly influences our personality and confidence in how we interact with women. Plus, they can see it and smell it on you when you're in great shape, and if you're older but well preserved it just makes them that much hornier.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2848929]First I have found that most girls on sa have know idea as to what substantial or any of them actually means. For each and everyone its something different and most are negotiable unless they are a seasoned hardcore sb who has had a very good arrangement. The negotiating of them down is not hard but then became they do come down we pat ourselves on the back thinking how much this girl is into us. As long as she is taking are money don't be fooled. Cut the money off and if she is still fucking you then pat urself on the back and well played.[/QUOTE]This is all very true. I don't seek girls that play the dollar amount game. SA is more show and tell. Be somewhat decently dressed and a nice cologne and you're in and nearly all cases. Girls don't want to be winners, they prefer to date a winner. In my LTR SB situation the sugar gradually funneled to $0. After maintaining the illusion that you're a great catch and of course treating her nicely she's more inclined to feel privileged that you're available. This combined with the realization that women operate on emotion 90% of the time you've got your POT under wraps.

I started SA and also a [URL]match.com[/URL] profile at the same time. I've had some M&Gs with early 30's and it's been unfulfilling. I've become addicted to a firmer body and the 20's nativity and over-confidence. Another technique I've been using is keeping emotions in a constant up and down state. I'll cancel a meet, go dark for a few days. When we meet I'll wine and dine, go over the top. If I take them out or to a shopping center for example I make sure to buy myself something really nice. For them, I'll buy a bottle of perfume or some trinket jewelry. It's a war of control and always appearing as a high value man. My techniques aren't fool proof. There's girls with game too, but if they like you enough they'll ignore your vices and signs of weakness.

My SB / SO is no longer living with me. She's still coming by for overnights and lunch dates. I no longer wag my tongue when sex is a possibility. In fact, I don't even try to initiate it anymore (very tough!) Since I've started back in The Bowl it's almost like she senses it. She's been much more interested and showing better behavior since a little distance is in between us. I'm not saying we're over, but I definitely won some points by willing to call it quits and finally meaning it. Admittingly the other girls don't hold a candle to her, but the new girls occupy some time and are a good break while I figure things out.

One pointer I had to learn the hard way. Don't get in the habit of being a texter. Dealing with girls now they are always glued to their phones. She's probably texting and sending pics to 5-10 guys at a time. Earlier I'd text novels and all types of chatty back and forth. After witnessing girls going dark and ignoring my text I took a different approach. I barely respond unless it's to deal with directions or setting times to meet up. If I'm on the move or doing something fun I'll include that. Don't respond to every text. Sometimes it's difficult to do, but I'm learning it's always about action. It's also good to always judge her actions never what she says. I've had the SB cut of communication with me for a several days on a whim. In my mind, she's banging some other guy or another SD. The reality is she's probably screenshot my text to her girlfriends and is debating what her next move is. Pretty girls have some deep insecurities. Learn to use it to your advantage. Keeping busy in the gym or reading new books helps the anxiety. It also keeps your mind off the uncertainty and if you're being played.

Juggling other girls helps, but I refrain from M&Gs that are a waste of time. I'm building a database of thoroughbred SBs. If I can narrow down to 2-3 good girls 10/10/10/10 I'd be in good shape. Having another girl keeps all the others interested and competitive. You'll cut your net spend down as well.

Biggest thing I've learned is always have FUN. Be light and a bit of humor, joking insults help. Make a point to bring things back sexual as well. I do this just to make sure we're never considered "friends". I'm the guy that will bang you, feed you and make sure you look and feel good when we're together. We're not TEXT buddies. When she gets back to her peer group, she's wondering what you're doing.

[B]Beauty sues sugar daddy for $1.5M after he dumps her | New York Post[/B]

[URL]http://nypost.com/2016/03/26/beauty-files-1-5m-suit-after-sugar-daddy-kicks-her-out-of-loft[/URL]

I know, it's the NY Post and all, but if nothing else it proves some points about SB / SD relationships. With those fucking Crocs he's rocking, could he get laid without being rich?