"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I jumped into the bowl last summer and after reading many helpful posts on this forum basically started off with the 5 step approach (courtesy of HWG). Feel like I have had moderate success with 14 in the FC (most w / o M & Gs), of which 8 have been multiple visits. I would be interested to hear opinions from the forum brothers regarding the idea of setting up a 2nd page. Obviously there is an additional cost (SA and a 2nd burner phone).

Here are 3 reasons that led me to adding a 2nd page two months ago. First I was second guessing my 5 step approach since a high % were either ignoring my initial message or flaking out after a few good messages. Wanted to give it the bill murray / groundhog day "redo"and revisit some of my favorite picks. The 2nd reason was to create a completely different persona for my second page. My first page was more of a rebel type whereas my second page allowed my to go with a button down shirt kind of look. Now I have some options on which page to use for certain POTs. Also if they don't respond to the first one or I strike out on the convos I have a planB available.

The third reason is one that popped into my head a couple of weeks after setting this up and is one that may have some brothers either shooting arrows at me (ethics) or applauding me. At the time I was in my fourth week with a 18 yr old new to SA. We were seeing each other weekly for either two short nites (5 pm - 11 pm) or one overnight in local hotels. I was budgeting about 1200 a month for her, plus hotels and diner type meals but I was her only source of income (no car, no fixed place to stay accept with grandparents or friends) and I knew it was not enough. I started to encourage her to consider getting a second SD (or a job LOL), partly bc I knew she was still active on SA, but she adamantly made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me. When I commented about her being on her SA site almost every day she replied she had given account access to a GF. Well, you know where I am going with this. I reached out to her thru my 2nd page and frankly it was one of the easiest hotel dates I have ever set up. Not only did she reschedule one of our dates to meet SD # 2 she even had the balls to message him (me) one morning after an overnight during breakfast (I matched up the SA time line). I thought long and hard about showing up for the SD # 2 date but elected to cancel the hotel date the day before. Without getting into extra details the end of this story has her admitting she was trying to add a SD # 2 and we agreed to take a break for a while. She has since texted me several times about restarting which I probably will seriously consider.

A 2nd page obviously requires extra expense and good organization. My SD # 1 phone is a burner w / o data but my SD # 2 phone is a smart phone with both accounts set up on it, so when it "ding dings" I can see which page got the hit. I give out separate cell #s and email addresses according to whichever page the POT is connecting to me on. I keep excel sheets for both pages to track the history of both who I meet and who I have cell # on, FB pages etc. Is it worth it in the long run? I don't know, but it does add an extra twist to the game. Thoughts? Comments?

[QUOTE=Rdudreaming;2835729]StormyTuesday;2835010 First please accept my apologies for skipping off this valuable forum the past 8 months. Jumped into the bowl last summer after a year or so playing with reviewed BP girls. Won't go back to BP but I will admit the bowl requires some emotional fortitude. Last summer I posted some suggestions on inexpensive subscription websites for researching the POTs. Here is some extra detail. I am a headhunter by vocation and have used these sites for years. But it starts with getting their cell # (email address is good but I rely on the cell # Usually on my first or second SA message I will include my cell number and email address along with my name. Some will text me right off the bat, some I need to ask for it after a couple of more messages. Most of us know by now we can then go to FB and plug in the number to see if it pulls up her name and page. But if it doesn't then that is where these sites can greatly increase your chances of getting her actual full name so that you can go back to fb. Often you will have to go the Find Friends section and put in the town you think she lives in. These 3 sites can all do the same but I have found they each have their particular strength. [URL]www.peoplesmart.com[/URL] (23.40 a year) is my favorite for plugging in cell numbers, [URL]www.spokeo.com[/URL] (23.70 a year) is my favorite for plugging in email addresses (and pulling up court records and other social media) and [URL]www.intelius.com[/URL] (100 a year for 200 uses) is good for finding family members, age, and current / past addresses. Usually when they text me the first time they will give me their real first name which is a common denominator through the research process Although the spokeo court records does not specify the actual offense if there are a lot of arrests for fun I will google their name & "mugshot" (yes a few have popped up with their mugshot!) but better yet I stop by my local courthouse.

Great post, great suggestions.

I too am in NC and use this site often:

[URL]http://www1.aoc.state.nc.us/www/calendars/CriminalQuery.html[/URL]

However, it seems to provide current charges, not historic charges or convictions. Do you have another site to recommend?

Thanks![/QUOTE]I tried this govt website but had no luck with it. I would recommend signing up for Spokeo with the court record option. It won't specify the nature of the offense but then you have the option to go to a local court of clerk office.

[QUOTE=Bowtie;2841116]Mad is spot on, this forum is a good place to start. Actually, this entire site is. If its just a physical void you are looking to fill, there are many options from street walkers to high end escorts. I've dabbled a bit in these areas but I'm looking for emotional connection as well. You may get that to some extent with the previous mentioned categories, but a true girlfriend or sugar baby fills my void better. I need the daily greetings, chit chat, understanding what's going on in their lives and family etc. That's just my thing, what I'm missing in my 30+ year marriage. Having that closer connection makes the physical side that much better, and its better on the soul. I've not heard too much on here regarding that. I've been at this pretty hard for 4 or 5 years now, it can be tough on ya plus I don't want to negatively effect my young friends. I want to help them, make it a good experience for them. Not just taking money to f some old dude. I help every one of them in some positive way, that is what I use to justify it in my mind. Right or wrong, I don't know, but I do know I will never stop. Just got back from a road trip to spend some time with a beautiful 25 yo friend. OMG, we rocked each others world. She was very surprised in fact. I'm not, keep in mind the guys of her generation can hardly take care of themselves let alone a young lady.[/QUOTE]Actually I used to write about this quite a bit here. It wasn't always well received because different people dabble in the bowl for different reasons, and discussions about SBs or SDs that wanted relationships versus the type that just want to play, versus all of the other varieties (UTR girls, escorts posing as SBs, etc.). Unfortunately most of what I and others wrote is buried in an unmanageably long thread, some of it probably referenced in the index thread, but not all. So I will try to summarize my thoughts as well as possible here.

A married SD (or one like myself who has a permanent long-term girlfriend) probably dabbles in the bowl purely for sexual variety, at least I can say variety is my primary goal. I usually see the best moves an SB has on her first trip to the FC. She is trying hard to prove to me she's worthy, and the sex is usually fantastic. Beyond that, I have trouble justifying seeing the same girl twice because I don't see the sex getting any better and to continue seeing her contradicts the end game of increasing the variety in my sex life. I don't want the companionship, I get that from my GF. My search for SBs is actually made tougher by the fact that it takes extra work to avoid clingy girls or ones that want to cuddle all night and wake up in my arms. I'm sure there are some SDs with SO that also seek out something more than just sex from an arrangement, but it's because they are missing that element in the rest of their life (I. E. Maybe they are with a wife they can't stand, but fear the financial implications of a divorce).

A single / divorced SD is typically different in the sense that he is also interested in the companionship, or perhaps the "loving daddy" role, or just a pretty face to look at, beyond just the sexual activity.

I am the type that doesn't like to be alone. I like to have someone around to do things with, simple stuff like just watching TV together, going to eat or to movies or concerts. But, when I am outside of a relationship I seek to fulfill that need FIRST. Time is limited, and I know that if I spend all of my free time and money on dating someone half my age, the chances of finding a fulfilling long term relationship are pretty much zero. Finding someone that's relationship-worthy is tough even if you don't introduce the extra challenge of trying to fulfill sexual needs or fantasies simultaneously.

So, perhaps the natural tendency is to solve the problem by trying to satisfy the sex addiction and the relationship need all at once -- why not a long term SB with relationship potential? Because in my mind, the chances of any of them ever being true relationship material with their SD are so slim, the possibility must be dismissed immediately. Women are very attuned to HOW THEY MET their partner. The fact that you two met on an "arrangement" site has already jinxed the setup. She came into the relationship with the expectations of an entitled princess, and that is the type of girlfriend she will ultimately be (even if she hides it long enough to get the ring on the finger and the child in the oven). I say don't do it.

What's worse about spending your time / energy / money on SBs is not only the loss of time itself that could be spent finding something real. It's the fact that hot young women are addictive, and it ruins you. You will no longer be able to see the beauty of that cute but plain, girl next door type who has a good job who never expected handouts from anyone, and you'll never get to know her long enough to find out how much you have in common or how happy you could make each other. Your dick is now conditioned to respond only to 19 year olds that look like porn stars, and everybody else looks homely by comparison. You've undermined your own chances at a relationship that might have made you happy, all at the expense of a sex addiction.

So basically, I made up my mind I was going to play the game and not let the game play me. I won't give in to the addiction. My relationship always comes first in priority, and everything I do, even how I interact with SBs, revolves around that goal. It can be severely limiting in the sense that I can't go fuck a new random girl every night or two, but that's one of life's tradeoffs. Yes it sucks sometimes that I can't go sport fucking whenever I feel like it, but that's how a mature and self-disciplined mind works.

And, at the end of it all I know that when I am 85 or whatever and my dick doesn't work anymore, or I get to the point where I don't care if it does or not, there is a very good chance I still have a nice life partner to enjoy my days with.

One way or another, even for the best of us, once we get past 65-70 or so, SB opportunities are going to dwindle off unless you've got Hugh Hefner money. I don't see dying old and alone as a goal I want to aim for. Even if my relationship doesn't work out, and I do end up alone at that age, at least I can sleep well knowing I tried my best rather than just buckling and caving into addiction.

May need to know this.

SB was talking about her having sex in the car with her husband some years back and cops busted them.

She said you better know the name of the partner if that happens to you.

They separate you and ask and if you don't know the name of the other party, you get arrested, for solicitation.

I'm not a awyer but that makes sense to me.

So, yet another twist in SB knowing who you are, or not.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2841350]Actually I used to write about this quite a bit here. It wasn't always well received because different people dabble in the bowl for different reasons, and discussions about SBs or SDs that wanted relationships versus the type that just want to play, versus all of the other varieties (UTR girls, escorts posing as SBs, etc.). Unfortunately most of what I and others wrote is buried in an unmanageably long thread, some of it probably referenced in the index thread, but not all. So I will try to summarize my thoughts as well as possible here.

A married SD (or one like myself who has a permanent long-term girlfriend) probably dabbles in the bowl purely for sexual variety, at least I can say variety is my primary goal. I usually see the best moves an SB has on her first trip to the FC. She is trying hard to prove to me she's worthy, and the sex is usually fantastic. Beyond that, I have trouble justifying seeing the same girl twice because I don't see the sex getting any better and to continue seeing her contradicts the end game of increasing the variety in my sex life. I don't want the companionship, I get that from my GF. My search for SBs is actually made tougher by the fact that it takes extra work to avoid clingy girls or ones that want to cuddle all night and wake up in my arms. I'm sure there are some SDs with SO that also seek out something more than just sex from an arrangement, but it's because they are missing that element in the rest of their life (I. E. Maybe they are with a wife they can't stand, but fear the financial implications of a divorce).

A single / divorced SD is typically different in the sense that he is also interested in the companionship, or perhaps the "loving daddy" role, or just a pretty face to look at, beyond just the sexual activity.

I am the type that doesn't like to be alone. I like to have someone around to do things with, simple stuff like just watching TV together, going to eat or to movies or concerts. But, when I am outside of a relationship I seek to fulfill that need FIRST. Time is limited, and I know that if I spend all of my free time and money on dating someone half my age, the chances of finding a fulfilling long term relationship are pretty much zero. Finding someone that's relationship-worthy is tough even if you don't introduce the extra challenge of trying to fulfill sexual needs or fantasies simultaneously.

So, perhaps the natural tendency is to solve the problem by trying to satisfy the sex addiction and the relationship need all at once -- why not a long term SB with relationship potential? Because in my mind, the chances of any of them ever being true relationship material with their SD are so slim, the possibility must be dismissed immediately. Women are very attuned to HOW THEY MET their partner. The fact that you two met on an "arrangement" site has already jinxed the setup. She came into the relationship with the expectations of an entitled princess, and that is the type of girlfriend she will ultimately be (even if she hides it long enough to get the ring on the finger and the child in the oven). I say don't do it.

What's worse about spending your time / energy / money on SBs is not only the loss of time itself that could be spent finding something real. It's the fact that hot young women are addictive, and it ruins you. You will no longer be able to see the beauty of that cute but plain, girl next door type who has a good job who never expected handouts from anyone, and you'll never get to know her long enough to find out how much you have in common or how happy you could make each other. Your dick is now conditioned to respond only to 19 year olds that look like porn stars, and everybody else looks homely by comparison. You've undermined your own chances at a relationship that might have made you happy, all at the expense of a sex addiction.

So basically, I made up my mind I was going to play the game and not let the game play me. I won't give in to the addiction. My relationship always comes first in priority, and everything I do, even how I interact with SBs, revolves around that goal. It can be severely limiting in the sense that I can't go fuck a new random girl every night or two, but that's one of life's tradeoffs. Yes it sucks sometimes that I can't go sport fucking whenever I feel like it, but that's how a mature and self-disciplined mind works.

And, at the end of it all I know that when I am 85 or whatever and my dick doesn't work anymore, or I get to the point where I don't care if it does or not, there is a very good chance I still have a nice life partner to enjoy my days with.

One way or another, even for the best of us, once we get past 65-70 or so, SB opportunities are going to dwindle off unless you've got Hugh Hefner money. I don't see dying old and alone as a goal I want to aim for. Even if my relationship doesn't work out, and I do end up alone at that age, at least I can sleep well knowing I tried my best rather than just buckling and caving into addiction.[/QUOTE]Very well put. Thanks Jeez.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2841465]May need to know this.

SB was talking about her having sex in the car with her husband some years back and cops busted them.

She said you better know the name of the partner if that happens to you.

They separate you and ask and if you don't know the name of the other party, you get arrested, for solicitation.

I'm not a awyer but that makes sense to me.

So, yet another twist in SB knowing who you are, or not.[/QUOTE]Yes, we can speculate and create a scenario where danger lurks everywhere.

[i][color=gray]Look, while I appreciate the well meaning intent of the post, when I see the phrase "makes sense to me" used in a situation where it appears to be a lack of knowledge, it trips my hot button. Appearance isn't the law. I guess society relies on views like that to be prevalent to scare people' and dictate behaviors? But anyone contemplating the Bowl with such views needs to adjust or stay out. So I apologize for what follows. [/color] [/i]

But sure, the police can charge you with anything- and no one has control over that.

Whether or not a charge sticks in court is another thing. But it is guys that think they can smooth talk their way out of a bust with LE that are the ones that run their mouth and incriminate them self and create the real trouble. If one doesn't know how to talk to LE, they are at a disadvantage. LE has been specifically trained to get you to incriminate your self. If one isn't a lawyer, is one smarter than their training? Shoot most lawyers aren't smart enough to keep their mouth shut when they encounter LE.

Unless LE sees or hears you offer sex for money, they do not have a case. They might have a suspicion, but last I checked, they can't read you mind or intent. So as long as you don't admit to some illegal act, you have nothing to worry about.

Then again, I hope that none of the gentlemen here are paying these girls for sexual relations as that is illegal. It is NOT illegal to pay a girl for legitimate services like companionship (time), massages, dancing, stripping, modeling or reading poetry to you! The point is that IF a legitimate service is engaged, then how can anyone prove that what two consenting adults engage in was in fact terms of the agreement? As long as you don't say so, there is an up hill battle battle- and last I checked the prosecutor has the burden of proof.

After all, what if you take a girlfriend out to dinner, she tells you a sob story about her financial hardship, you give her some money and at the end of the date the goodnight kiss turns into more- Are you guilty of solicitation? Or you hire the neighbor girl (over 18) to do some cleaning for you and one thing leads to another and your are b@lls deep in her - Are you guilty of solicitation?

Now all of that said, one would hope that the SB one takes up with has enough smarts to NOT tell LE, when stopped, "Oh, he is paying me to F his brains out?" If you think she is susceptible to that kind of tongue slip then educate her or make sure she understands that you have engaged her to use her best sultry voice to verbalize some Emily Dickinson poetry. (have your copy handy!)

There are a plethora of resources out there to give you a fighting chance with an LE stop. I realize most will never use these resources, because most of the gents here are lawyers and/or are smarter than a cop anyway. Plus I recognize "getting educated" up front takes time, and no one has the time for that- it is much better to just learn "experientially" in the School of Hard Knocks. Much easier to learn what you should have done, when that solicitation arrest is on your record, than the hours it might take beforehand. For those dumb enough to want to learn something: Here is a start.

[URL]https://youtu.be/yqMjMPlXzdA[/URL]
[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?6626-Ten-Things-NOT-to-do-if-Arrested&p=883646&viewfull=1#post883646[/url]

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2841465]May need to know this.

SB was talking about her having sex in the car with her husband some years back and cops busted them.

She said you better know the name of the partner if that happens to you.

They separate you and ask and if you don't know the name of the other party, you get arrested, for solicitation.

I'm not a awyer but that makes sense to me.

So, yet another twist in SB knowing who you are, or not.[/QUOTE]Car sex brings out different problems. Even if married you can be charged under some type of indecency laws, whatever your state or city has on the books. Your at the mercy of LEO whethether they cite you or laugh abd say have a good day and drive off. Most questions are going to center around whether she is there on here own free will unless she is a known pro.

[QUOTE=Bowtie;2841116]Mad is spot on, this forum is a good place to start. Actually, this entire site is. If its just a physical void you are looking to fill, there are many options from street walkers to high end escorts. I've dabbled a bit in these areas but I'm looking for emotional connection as well. You may get that to some extent with the previous mentioned categories, but a true girlfriend or sugar baby fills my void better. I need the daily greetings, chit chat, understanding what's going on in their lives and family etc. That's just my thing, what I'm missing in my 30+ year marriage. Having that closer connection makes the physical side that much better, and its better on the soul. I've not heard too much on here regarding that. I've been at this pretty hard for 4 or 5 years now, it can be tough on ya plus I don't want to negatively effect my young friends. I want to help them, make it a good experience for them. Not just taking money to f some old dude. I help every one of them in some positive way, that is what I use to justify it in my mind. Right or wrong, I don't know, but I do know I will never stop. Just got back from a road trip to spend some time with a beautiful 25 yo friend. OMG, we rocked each others world. She was very surprised in fact. I'm not, keep in mind the guys of her generation can hardly take care of themselves let alone a young lady.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info, Bowtie. Sounds like we are in similar situations. I am just now realizing that I don't want to live this way for the rest of my life. I'm looking for something steady, fun and good for both of us. Just haven't figured out how to find that young lady who wants to play. Open to advice, thanks.

Hi Fellow mongers.

What do you do when you get asked for pics? I am getting less response for saying no sharing of pic. I keep telling SBs that we can meet over coffee and see in person.

I hate to share pics which can easily provide some social profile. Somewhere. I feel like I forgot my way of being SD.

How do you handle that?

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2842311]Hi Fellow mongers.

What do you do when you get asked for pics? I am getting less response for saying no sharing of pic. I keep telling SBs that we can meet over coffee and see in person.

I hate to share pics which can easily provide some social profile. Somewhere. I feel like I forgot my way of being SD.

How do you handle that?[/QUOTE]Take some pics of yourself & post and then destroy the originals so they don't get shared with anyone or posted on social media. On SA you can restrict access to the clearest face pics. Let her see pic of you playing hoops, ball or in the bar - from a distance- that shows profile & shape.

Basically I am guessing the girl wants to see you aren't 5'4" and 350+ pounds. She wants some idea you don't look sloppy or like a creep. You aren't necessarily attracting as not getting ruled out.

The only other option is catfish it and find some dudes' photos and use them. Fake pics often get you in more trouble when a girl feels you are hiding or dishonest.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2842311]Hi Fellow mongers.

What do you do when you get asked for pics? I am getting less response for saying no sharing of pic. I keep telling SBs that we can meet over coffee and see in person.

I hate to share pics which can easily provide some social profile. Somewhere. I feel like I forgot my way of being SD.

How do you handle that?[/QUOTE]Fake pics are the only way. Catfish baby! Make sure of 2 things 1) the pics actually look like you and 2) they don't reverse search.

To anyone-like a modelling agency or an actor. A long time ago I had an escort I became friends with and she comped me whenever she came to town on tour. We shared a lot of advice and one was the subject of pics. She picked out 3 for me that she said looked like me. Sure enough, I have used them for years and never once has any of my hundreds of girls I've meet questioned them. Just make sure a girl picks them out for you and that they are realistic-not 20 yrs ago or 40 lbs lighter.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2841307]I jumped into the bowl last summer and after reading many helpful posts on this forum basically started off with the 5 step approach (courtesy of HWG). Feel like I have had moderate success with 14 in the FC (most w / o M & Gs), of which 8 have been multiple visits. I would be interested to hear opinions from the forum brothers regarding the idea of setting up a 2nd page. Obviously there is an additional cost (SA and a 2nd burner phone).
....
[/QUOTE]Dump the first phone and keep the second burner with data. You can get additional numbers from a variety of sources (Google Voice, Line, etc) and save the expense and issues with carrying around so many phones.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2842470]Fake pics are the only way. Catfish baby! Make sure of 2 things 1) the pics actually look like you and 2) they don't reverse search.

To anyone-like a modelling agency or an actor. A long time ago I had an escort I became friends with and she comped me whenever she came to town on tour. We shared a lot of advice and one was the subject of pics. She picked out 3 for me that she said looked like me. Sure enough, I have used them for years and never once has any of my hundreds of girls I've meet questioned them. Just make sure a girl picks them out for you and that they are realistic-not 20 yrs ago or 40 lbs lighter.[/QUOTE]Your hundreds of girls might not have said anything but that is one of the biggest complaints, fake pics. Mongers don't like it so why should the girls. I don't post a pic and wait for the girl to ask. If she does ask then I send her a current pic. If she doesn't ask for a pic then she is a pro. No one likes to be cat fished.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2842588]Your hundreds of girls might not have said anything but that is one of the biggest complaints, fake pics. Mongers don't like it so why should the girls. I don't post a pic and wait for the girl to ask. If she does ask then I send her a current pic. If she doesn't ask for a pic then she is a pro. No one likes to be cat fished.[/QUOTE]I hear you. You do what works -or doesn't work -for you. I am prominent in my community -as many of you are -and it would be a disaster to be discovered. Remember the AM fiasco? So I do not give a flying * what the girls like or do not like. When they meet me and engage in an arrangement they are well taken care of per the agreement. The SDs who get complaints obviously are using inaccurate pics that do not resemble them at all. If you are single put a nice pro shot up there and rock your truthfulness. If you are like most of us and have an SO then stealth is the key to protect you and your lifestyle as you know it. What happens when your SO makes a profile and sees your pics in the private section-Boom! You're busted.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2842470]Fake pics are the only way. Catfish baby! Make sure of 2 things 1) the pics actually look like you and 2) they don't reverse search.

To anyone-like a modelling agency or an actor. A long time ago I had an escort I became friends with and she comped me whenever she came to town on tour. We shared a lot of advice and one was the subject of pics. She picked out 3 for me that she said looked like me. Sure enough, I have used them for years and never once has any of my hundreds of girls I've meet questioned them. Just make sure a girl picks them out for you and that they are realistic-not 20 yrs ago or 40 lbs lighter.[/QUOTE]In other words, don't post this:

If you really look like this.