"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2835199]Just my take: by the time you're at this point in things, where sentences start with "if you don't believe me then. " or "well I don't do _ when you _ " , then you are at THE POINT in the relationship..... you have reached the inflection point that makes married men want to search for something on the side. The beauty of it is, you were already on the side you just over extended your stay a bit.

Cut and run man. Willing women are everywhere. The less time you spend with each one the more skilled you get in acquiring new ones.

Yes I have a real relationship to keep my feet on the ground and my money in the bank. If I didn't have that, I would long for something real too, but looking for it among the sugar baby population is asking for a tough ride. Pluck the prime fruit from the tree and move to the next orchard. Rinse, repeat, and enjoy.[/QUOTE]I agree with JL. You've reached the beginning of the end, or maybe the middle of the end. Any time I've gone past this point, when it finally ends (and it WILL end), I've felt two things. Relief and regret. Relief it's finally over and regret I let it go past the shelf life.

JMHO. Good luck.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2834850]Had the talk. Told her I'd like to end things. She got defensive and into this rant about me being paranoid. Says when she's not with me she's at school, or hangouts with girlfriends. She asks me to GPS track her if I'm concerned about her whereabouts so much (don't think I'd ever do that).

The convo continues on and she explains how she gives me the benefit of the doubt when I don't pick up my phone or when I'm out at bars alone. She's basically telling me to cool out, there's no other guy (s). Addressing meeting as an SB specifically, she says stop treating it like we're SB / SD and she doesn't need $$, she wants more emotional support. Outwardly, I'm late 30's so on the surface it's not known that we met under "sugar" pretenses.

A few days after this blowup she's more informative about where she's at when out with friends. A couple days after the dust settles she jokingly brings up a "us with child" scenario. She even brings up that it's about time for me to meet her family.

Sounds like bringing up my uneasiness helped in some ways. It could be that it's fear on her side. In any case, got back in the SA game and have a couple M&Gs set up. I figure I'll see what else is out there and to take my mind of things.[/QUOTE]I've literally heard almost that exact same story. It's kind of cookie cutter. Amazing. Go to your M & G's. Keep moving forward. If things turn around then let it happen down the road. She needs time off to wake up to how well she has been taken care of. It all can be a process of reeling her in. Go back now and she won't respect you.

My two cents. For whatever its worth.

If you M&G then be prepared to end things. Your SB is really a SO. She's been your SO for quite some time. A few months back you mentioned that she was talking about baby names (child not sugar baby). That was a clear signal that she wanted to take things to the next level.

When you did not, she appears to have taken the other route to get you to shit or get off the pot. Namely by going out any partying to make you jealous.

She is playing for keeps. If you meet her family, then her next steps will be to push for a ring. If you continue to M&G, she will walk out the door.

A woman like this understands that she is in her window to land a man of her choice right now while she is hot and her pussy is still fresh. In her mind, she's given you enough time for you to make up your mind. Also, while she knows you are a good catch she also wants the security of a future with you, and if you're not willing to take things to the next level by meeting her family, then she will walk and have a new profile up on SA in a heartbeat. Mainly with the expectation of getting your attention.

The next steps are yours to make. You can delay by meeting her family, but it will increase the pressure on you. If you start to m&g then expect her to escalate as well. You of course have the advantage because she lives with you, but if things go badly, expect the craziness to come out. Like cutting up the upholstry in your range rover and porsche, or her bringing another guy to your bed. Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn.

If you want to know whether I've m&g'ed with her recently pm me (assuming of course that her SA profile is still active. Which I am assuming is not, otherwise I suspect you would've kicked her to the curb months ago).

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2834850]Had the talk. Told her I'd like to end things. She got defensive and into this rant about me being paranoid. Says when she's not with me she's at school, or hangouts with girlfriends. She asks me to GPS track her if I'm concerned about her whereabouts so much (don't think I'd ever do that).

The convo continues on and she explains how she gives me the benefit of the doubt when I don't pick up my phone or when I'm out at bars alone. She's basically telling me to cool out, there's no other guy (s). Addressing meeting as an SB specifically, she says stop treating it like we're SB / SD and she doesn't need $$, she wants more emotional support. Outwardly, I'm late 30's so on the surface it's not known that we met under "sugar" pretenses.

A few days after this blowup she's more informative about where she's at when out with friends. A couple days after the dust settles she jokingly brings up a "us with child" scenario. She even brings up that it's about time for me to meet her family.

Sounds like bringing up my uneasiness helped in some ways. It could be that it's fear on her side. In any case, got back in the SA game and have a couple M&Gs set up. I figure I'll see what else is out there and to take my mind of things.[/QUOTE]

I was in the same predicament and looked up on craigslist for some options and found some office space that was up for rent for 225 bucks a month with no lease required. This office was built inside a home and had 2 rooms with a separate bathroom, one room was empty and the other had a desk and chairs and the beauty was it was very private. Told the guy I needed the space to meet clients sometimes and he didn't question anything, next stop was Pier 1 where I bought a futon for the second room and had a spare TV at home which came in handy. Now I have a room at my beck and call 24/7 and life couldn't be any better. Over six months and have never heard from the landlord as I pay my rent timely. I'm just loving it.

[QUOTE=DownTime15;2835483]Have loved reading this board for quite some time. I'm outside of Richmond and not even in Virginia, but love following this thread. Personally I have found SA to be a great site with wonderful success. For me, SA has led to all sorts of experiences that were out of this world both as far as meeting high quality people and having awesome playtime without having to endure the hangovers and circles under the eyes from the bar & nightlife pickup scene or dealing with the drama of hookups through work and social circle connections. Most SA things fizzled out over time, but none ended badly. Lately, I've been thinking more about trying to branch out to coffee shop employees, retail workers, etc since in my city (like most) they tend to be very attractive and receptive to flirty conversation. Would love to hear any advice on connecting with potential SB's through everyday life (vs. Online) and ways to get to a proposal for an arrangement in some sort of gracious smooth way without scaring them away.

So my main area where I'm looking for advice here. I've found that having logistics ready (meaning a location ready for potential spontaneous playtime) is turning out to be a huge nightmare. For many reasons, my place would not be an option due to complex family situation and my desire to maintain privacy.

Whenever I negotiate and things get transactional, it tends to go nowhere, or the transaction discussion starts to proceed in such a way that I start to think I'm dealing with a professional escort or UTR (deal breaker for me and not interested). On the other hand, I have found that when I have a place available, virtually every genuine potential SB I meet from SA will have drinks and go back to my place with absolutely no mention of $. After any fun, I'm always generous with some allowance when we're saying goodbye.

Having a hotel room ready in advance is a waste if things don't go well. If things do start to go well, it's difficult to scramble to set up a hotel room. Have been thinking about maintaining a separate little corporate studio apartment or perhaps rent out a separate suitably set up cozy office with a nice little couch and bar set up. AirBnB might be another option and haven't learned much about it yet. A final idea would be to rent a room from someone (for example take the time to go visit rooms for rent off Craigslist and try to find a cool dude that keeps a place presentable), so it's ready when I need it. The challenge is I want to avoid any sort of lease or long term commitment and also keep the monthly cost to $500 or less, total, . And always have a second place available. In other words, some place that's always available to hang out, have a drink, etc and see if things escalate and turn into playtime. Thank you for any ideas or wisdom![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2836862]My two cents. For whatever its worth.

If you M&G then be prepared to end things. Your SB is really a SO. She's been your SO for quite some time. A few months back you mentioned that she was talking about baby names (child not sugar baby). That was a clear signal that she wanted to take things to the next level.

When you did not, she appears to have taken the other route to get you to shit or get off the pot. Namely by going out any partying to make you jealous.

She is playing for keeps. If you meet her family, then her next steps will be to push for a ring. If you continue to M&G, she will walk out the door.

A woman like this understands that she is in her window to land a man of her choice right now while she is hot and her pussy is still fresh. In her mind, she's given you enough time for you to make up your mind. Also, while she knows you are a good catch she also wants the security of a future with you, and if you're not willing to take things to the next level by meeting her family, then she will walk and have a new profile up on SA in a heartbeat. Mainly with the expectation of getting your attention.

The next steps are yours to make. You can delay by meeting her family, but it will increase the pressure on you. If you start to m&g then expect her to escalate as well. You of course have the advantage because she lives with you, but if things go badly, expect the craziness to come out. Like cutting up the upholstry in your range rover and porsche, or her bringing another guy to your bed. Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn.

If you want to know whether I've m&g'ed with her recently pm me (assuming of course that her SA profile is still active. Which I am assuming is not, otherwise I suspect you would've kicked her to the curb months ago).[/QUOTE]I forgot about that. I do remember the baby name issue a long time ago. I could see the scenario you mentioned, but I will add on to it. I would not, under any circumstances marry under the state. A man as all should know here is essentially giving up all his power. If they do decide they want to spend the rest of their life together, then the test would be to ask her to marry in the church, but keep the state out of the marriage. Both can buy rings and go through the motions. If she insists on the state blessing the marriage then I say walk and don't hesitate at all. If she really loved him she should not care about the state. If both agree to a contract then fine, but under no circumstances should anyone for that matter marry under the state. If her response is "I don't care honey I know you love me and I believe we'll spend the rest of our life together" then you know you found a good one. Just my two cents. He also would not have to worry about alimony if they married under the state.

Another issue all together is if they have kids. A man is pretty much screwed under that scenario.

LOL. This is exactly what I was thinking of doing. Glad to know that it has worked out very well for you. At 225 with no lease and 2 private rooms with bath is a terrific deal, any day. How often do you get to use this place for meeting with SBs each month? And, how do you avoid any paper trail for paying the rent. Or is it something that you don't need to worry about.

[QUOTE=PeteS;2837891]I was in the same predicament and looked up on craigslist for some options and found some office space that was up for rent for 225 bucks a month with no lease required. This office was built inside a home and had 2 rooms with a separate bathroom, one room was empty and the other had a desk and chairs and the beauty was it was very private. Told the guy I needed the space to meet clients sometimes and he didn't question anything, next stop was Pier 1 where I bought a futon for the second room and had a spare TV at home which came in handy. Now I have a room at my beck and call 24/7 and life couldn't be any better. Over six months and have never heard from the landlord as I pay my rent timely. I'm just loving it.[/QUOTE]

My one constant in this game has been that my gut is never wrong. You should trust yours as well.

Common law marriage isn't something to enter lightly. If you are married by common law and then decide to end the relationship, you will still require a legal divorce.

In this way, common law marriages are similar to regular marriages: they are usually easier to get into than to get out of. Legal zoom.

While there are some protections from just "living together" It is prudent to get some legal verbiage to protect the innocent. And if there are kids involved, you are fucked.

Mike. You are 100% right on all your points.

Based on what hoya has described, she is playing for keeps. Like almost every woman I know, she sounds like she wants to be married with children. Maybe not right now, but she probably wants to set it up so that it happens down the line.

Avoid the wedding and the kids. Save the $50 k that you would've spent on the wedding to rent out the spearmint rhino.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2838002]I forgot about that. I do remember the baby name issue a long time ago. I could see the scenario you mentioned, but I will add on to it. I would not, under any circumstances marry under the state. A man as all should know here is essentially giving up all his power. If they do decide they want to spend the rest of their life together, then the test would be to ask her to marry in the church, but keep the state out of the marriage. Both can buy rings and go through the motions. If she insists on the state blessing the marriage then I say walk and don't hesitate at all. If she really loved him she should not care about the state. If both agree to a contract then fine, but under no circumstances should anyone for that matter marry under the state. If her response is "I don't care honey I know you love me and I believe we'll spend the rest of our life together" then you know you found a good one. Just my two cents. He also would not have to worry about alimony if they married under the state.

Another issue all together is if they have kids. A man is pretty much screwed under that scenario.[/QUOTE]

Here is my response to Hoyas post a few months back about baby names.

Sounds like she is using her recent bad behavior to push the meeting with the family.

If Hoya wants to drag things out, then he should start by meeting the siblings, which should buy a few months, and then work up from there.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2704134]It first starts with her moving in, then talk about baby names, before you know it, you'll be putting a ring on her finger (or at least that's what she thinks). It's all a test to see where she stands with you and how far she can take things. If you shut down during the baby talk conversation, it will likely lead to her pouting.

She is starting out slow (kind of like spreading the cheeks a little wider) then the baby name talk will turn into invites home to meet the parents over the holidays (like putting the tip in) and next thing you know, you're having your second wedding.

More power to you brother. As an unmarried, relatively young player in the bowl, its all about how much fun you're having. Hell, who knows, if she's good for daddy, why not see how far you can take it without putting a ring on that finger? Your situation lets you enjoy aspects of the bowl that most others cannot. For that I envy your position, but wouldn't trade spots with you.

As for reaching this point with my babies? No, I make it clear that they are the other woman and that I won't be changing that situation. It prevents having the same kind of emotional relationship you have with your SB/so, but makes it infinitely easier when I decide to drop any one of them from my rotation.[/QUOTE]

I know there's nothing simple about it, but how does one go about finding a playmate? I am 48 and unwilling to spend the rest of my life unfulfilled. Looking for a nice girl who likes to please and wants to be pleased. I have no idea how to get started. Any advice is appreciated.

You will find most of your answers in this thread. There is a convenient index to useful reports included on the Richmond board. Read it and learn.

Good luck and report back on your experience.

Max.

[QUOTE=JWHere;2840659]I know there's nothing simple about it, but how does one go about finding a playmate? I am 48 and unwilling to spend the rest of my life unfulfilled. Looking for a nice girl who likes to please and wants to be pleased. I have no idea how to get started. Any advice is appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Mad is spot on, this forum is a good place to start. Actually, this entire site is. If its just a physical void you are looking to fill, there are many options from street walkers to high end escorts. I've dabbled a bit in these areas but I'm looking for emotional connection as well. You may get that to some extent with the previous mentioned categories, but a true girlfriend or sugar baby fills my void better. I need the daily greetings, chit chat, understanding what's going on in their lives and family etc. That's just my thing, what I'm missing in my 30+ year marriage. Having that closer connection makes the physical side that much better, and its better on the soul. I've not heard too much on here regarding that. I've been at this pretty hard for 4 or 5 years now, it can be tough on ya plus I don't want to negatively effect my young friends. I want to help them, make it a good experience for them. Not just taking money to f some old dude. I help every one of them in some positive way, that is what I use to justify it in my mind. Right or wrong, I don't know, but I do know I will never stop. Just got back from a road trip to spend some time with a beautiful 25 yo friend. OMG, we rocked each others world. She was very surprised in fact. I'm not, keep in mind the guys of her generation can hardly take care of themselves let alone a young lady.

[QUOTE=JWHere;2840659]I know there's nothing simple about it, but how does one go about finding a playmate? I am 48 and unwilling to spend the rest of my life unfulfilled. Looking for a nice girl who likes to please and wants to be pleased. I have no idea how to get started. Any advice is appreciated.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2619899]One of FM's prior posts (about how the tough part of the bowl is finding high quality pots at BP expectation amounts), and NiceGuy's post got me to thinking. This go around, I've had a lot of luck finding high quality babies who have much lower expectations. I couldn't figure out, but it might be because when setting up my profile, I have significantly reduced my "net worth and annual salary amounts.

Previously I had listed my actual net worth and salary. I remember reading a post a few months back about how one brother set up a profile with much lower figures to give him a better starting point from an allowance perspective.

This go around, when setting up my "mercenary" profile, I dropped the numbers and put it all out there because I have my swim instructor and so it was more of just a "testing the waters" kind of thing. I also incorporated the advice from the brother about listing lower figures for net worth and salary.

In hindsight, when viewing things from the perspective of a college aged pot, even listing a net worth that is half my actual must seem pretty nice to them, compared to college aged boys who are drinking kegs of Natty light and eating ramen noodles in the dorm.

In any case. Thanks to the OP who posted about his tactic for establishing a better starting point. I think I may have figured out why expectations this go around are so much different than the last two rounds.

As an aside, a few posts back, I had been waffling about whether to go with a "tear down and rebuild" strategy for my profile, or renewing my existing account. There was a thread on the subject a few months back with different folks advocating for one or the other, based on different reasons. I am now firmly in the "tear down and rebuild" strategy. Mainly because it allows me to "groundhog day" pots. Just like the move with Bill Murray, I am now able to reach out again to pots that were not receptive to my prior profile, or restart conversations that died using info collected in the last round, and knowing not to make the same mistakes again (e. G. This pot will go dark if you try to reschedule the first M&G with her, etc.) It is also another huge benefit of not sharing face pics until the M&G. This way, a pot from a prior round that you were trying to get to the FC, but didn't make it to the M&G with has no idea that you were chatting her up a few weeks ago.

Just my two cents though, I'm sure there are a variety of differing opinions out there.[/QUOTE]Re: rebuild the profile page or add a 2nd page.

I am starting a new report on this topic and had already planned to use the groundhog day analogy. Will be interested in your thoughts on my report / topic.

I have found there are more pros getting this site. Just ran in to one last week, looked like she ate the girl in the picture from profile. Shit my the* stops working. This happened twice for me.

Any one else have noticed and had seen, I think we should start reporting to the SA admin, since it says if you are an escort do not go on SA.

The DC. MD. VA list is doing great, lots of insights on the good ones and the bad and ugly once to avoid. It is very helpful.

Got a the lunch date with college freshman today will report how it goes.

S2568.