"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2829399]At Cigar.

Good point. I tend to do the same. I fish in the 7-8 range blue collar zone. These girls are a little needier, less spoiled, and more appreciative as long as they aren't Nando 1's. Drug and alcohol addiction is a no go. They are hopeless and dangerous.

My current SB is a young unwed mother who is massively improved by my reasonable allowance. Many of the college snots scoff at my offer, but who needs them? In the bedroom their pussies are no better than my 7 . I need 20 somethings and 8+ bodies, but don't need a fashion model.[/QUOTE]Yes it's nice to bang some 9-10's to basically check off the bucket list. But once you've banged a few, you realize you often get more bang for the buck with girls in the 6-8 range.

I tend to look for girls who have a genuine interest in older guys. I almost always ask if a girl has "been with an older guy before". If they answer "No, but I thought it would be cool to get help with bills and get spoiled", then it's a bit of a yellow flag. These girls probably read it about sugar daddies from a blog or a friend and just want fast money. These SBs tend to be slightly uncomfortable around SDs and like to get things over as quickly as possible.

But girls who say, "Yes I've been with an older guy" or "I haven't been with an older guy, but I always wanted to!" then those girls have good potential because the arrangement is not only giving them some money but also fulfilling a fantasy.

I agree though working class girls are the way to go. Sometimes it can be tricky working around their schedules but they definitely tend to be more appreciative. I still prefer young 20-somethings myself, but I look for the community college girls. They're not too desperate like some of the unemployed girls but they're not as stuck-up as the university girls. They also tend to live at home with their parents, so they don't need you to survive but the reasonable allowance does help them cover phone bills, gas, and other basic expenses.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2827024]CDC estimates that, annually, 776,000 people in the United States get new herpes infections. How many of you here have it? Probably more than a few. Think about the ones who don't tell us.[/QUOTE]I'm such an infrequent reader / poster here these days that I've forgotten where to find the full and comprehensive list of forum rules, but I know for a fact I've seen admins here censor posts for identifying an individual as having an STD unless there was documentable proof (I. E. A news article or something I'm guessing). I don't want to step on the toes of those who are warning other brothers in the interest of safety, but there are a few problems with this even beyond the forum rules which say don't do it:

First, when I read a comment like the one that was outing the girl who supposedly had herpes, I don't know for sure that it's being conveyed in the interest of the safety of fellow SDs. And, even if it is, it has been done at the expense of the girls privacy once her SA username is associated with it. It's an unsubstantiated rumor to anyone except the person reporting the incident. I certainly would not want someone violating my privacy with unsubstantiated rumors even if they were based in fact. Do unto others summarizes how I feel about it.

Second, the girl might have just admitted to having herpes because she intentionally wanted to repel someone. It's well documented that rape victims sometimes do this with their attackers (like saying "you don't want to do this, I have AIDS" right before she is attacked. It's a common defense technique. Just like guys sometimes lie and tell girls they have a long history of birth defects in their family in order to encourage abortion in an unwanted pregnancy, STD threats are sometimes used in dating tactics (unfortunately).

Third, while I personally go bareback pretty much exclusively, and have never tested positive for an STD, I understand and have to accept the risks before I go sport fucking. Everyone should. If there's one I'm paranoid about, it's getting throat cancer from HPV, because I have not heard too many good things about throat cancer. Herpes on the other hand has been proven to kill cancer cells, to the point that the medical community is now injecting it into patients in order to fight more serious diseases.

So put me down for a vote for no more unsubstantiated STD reports.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2829392]@ Hoya.

I agree with your need for monogamy-I demand it although I can't prove it. You are emotionally involved which makes it harder. You have 2 choices:

1) dump her on a suspicion or 2) keep her because she makes you happy. We all know a 20 something is not going to hang with a 50 something for ever. She is using you -much like a parent at home and getting her playing in as well. And she probably loves you in some capacity as well.

I would recommend having THE TALK with her. Of course she can lie her ass off, but you can read though the lines. You have reasonable expectation of fidelity since you are paying her well, she's living in your home, driving your cars, etc. Tell her your feelings and needs. You don't want a prisoner, so it is OK for her to hang out with her peer group and be a 20 yr old. It just isn't OK for her to be fucking random dudes-STDs, respect, whatever.

Another option is to put a PI on her and see if she is cheating, or just socializing. I know my kids -when they were 20 something, had friends of both sexes and weren't sleeping with them. Maybe you are worrying for nothing, but then again, she might be riding the Cock Carousel. One thing for sure, you don't want to lower yourself to sniffing her undies, checking her phone, etc. Get a Pro to check her out. She could be innocent.[/QUOTE]Not sure this applies in this situation but for those of us who are curious if our "monogamous" SB is looking for more SDs I periodically check their page (w / o viewing them. I filter down to their specs) to see if they are or were online that day. The downside of this is that it could increase your sense of jealousy. I recently had a 18 yr old SB for 2 months that I was seeing twice a week including $ 300 overnights. I knew I wasn't covering her living expenses so I encouraged her to try to get a second SD. She adamantly would say she would not ever do that while she was my SB. But I could see she was on the site almost every day. So to have some (cruel) fun with her story I set up a second SB page. Sure enough, it was the easiest hotel date I ever set up except I canceled at the last moment. I thought about going through with it but I knew she kept a box cutter in her purse and I didn't want her to cut me. LOL.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2828869]Been having a steady relationship with my SB turned SO. I explained I'd been tempted to cum inside lately. A week later she went to the gyno for a routine check up. We don't have any STDs and have been relying on the pull out method. There haven't been any slip ups or close calls. She inserted the IUD a week ago. Would you trust the IUD to start unloading inside? She's been having girl nights and occasionally not coming home. I have no proof that she's stepped out on our "exclusive" relationship, but my intuition says maybe she has other relationships. She's early 20's and is a 10/10/10. I don't know if I should cut her lose due to my gut feeling or not. The subconsious is powerful. The fact I've been checking her panties lately has me thinking that I either don't trust her and there's a reason or I'm super paranoid. She's guarded about her phones sometimes and I've never been the type to ask for a phone check, but I have my suspiciousness that it's a landline. Asking to see her phone would show a lack of confidence. I'm considering just ending it and moving on based on a gut feeling. I enjoyed the relationship because I had a hot girl and more time to focus on work. She was my personal pleasure. Now with the distance and her spending time with her 20's peer group, it makes me uneasy. I don't want to go back to sugar dating, but it would be good to find another 10/10/10 replacement.

Do you guys end it based on gut feeling or give it more time to play out. Financially if I left it would hinder her. She's a full time grad student and has all the perks of dating a successful older guy. She drives either my new Range Rover or my Porsche to class everyday. I know she's loving the stability and the lifestyle of dealing with a guy like me, but I'm unsure if she'd compromise it by having a side relationship. I'm really close to cutting her lose. I know I'd be sad to see her go, but my intuition tells me something isn't right. When do you guys cut your babies loose. I'm willing to offer her a couple weeks of $$$ just to let her adjust. I think this SB / SO experiment has run its course.

Thoughts from the BRO Commission?[/QUOTE]
Hoya,

I saw your post when you wrote it, but was out of town and didn't have a chance to respond. I'm getting in kind of late, but here is my take, because I've been in this situation before. Not that I made the right decision, but I can offer what I think you should do based on my past mistakes perhaps.

Let me first say that there is a saying that I believe to be true and it goes like this " The person who holds the control in a relationship is the one who cares the least". She knows that by staying out it will bother you. She's playing a head games and jockeying for control. She might not be having another thing going with someone else either male or female, but then again she might be. Guarded about her phone sometimes? Yes she is hiding something for sure. You parked your dick for a while and it was nice with a 10, but it is time to move on. In my opinion it has run its course, however you have the issue of taking care of her. I think she has become complacent and forgot where she came from. It is time to cut her lose move out and maybe give her one month allowance or maybe not. I say maybe not, because you shouldn't feel concerned about her financial well being. Listen a woman will do a 180 degree on us and cut our throat if it suits them not considering what it does to us. So I say drop the hammer and let her suffer financially. She forgot where she came from and you need to establish who the boss is. He who has the sugar rules. It is time to cut her throat. If you have a problem with it I will help you. Women today go through our society and do what they want without any consequences legally or from men in general. It is so easy for us to be kind and compassionate because after all she is a woman right? Men need to change that stance in some circumstances and this is one of them. It is 2016 and we have given women more power then ever. Remember if she gets finished with the relationship before you then she will not hesitate to cut your throat. Don't be afraid to do it yourself and don't feel regret. She should have at least said something to you about staying out till the next day. Not that you would have believed her, but the courtesy to do so should have been exercised by her. If she didn't that is blatant disrespect (Personally I made the mistake on not acting on my past baby's disrespect). You did say that you two were being exclusive right? She has gotten complacent and is testing who has control of the relationship. I have to say a while back you talked about walking then. Your intuition was right apparently. You should have walked then. Maybe she also expected you to, but when you didn't maybe she lost a little respect for you and is questioning who has the power in the relationship. Just my take. It might be difficult, but it has to be done. Easier said than done. Personally I wish I could turn back the clock and make a different decision. I didn't and it still pisses me off that I didn't act when I saw the red flags.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2828876]I always hear that this is common, but I've only ran across one girl that had it and was open about it. As soon as she told me, I ended the relationship. We never had sex. The babies I've dealt with admiringly had some sexual history. I've only barebacked based off a conversation about STDs and never had any issues. When I read forums on it, the consensus is that it's not a big deal, but I always thought it'd be an inconvenience to have. After a year of BB, the thought of going back to dating new girls and wearing condoms sucks. It's making me hesitant to get back in the game with new babies. The 20 yr olds in the DC metro area are probably all having sex with multiple partners similar to guys. If I end it with my "one-on-one" SB, I may take a break from sex for awhile.[/QUOTE]Yeah maybe a break is in the cards, but don't stay away too long. You must get back in the game.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2829392]@ Hoya.



Another option is to put a PI on her and see if she is cheating, or just socializing. I know my kids -when they were 20 something, had friends of both sexes and weren't sleeping with them. Maybe you are worrying for nothing, but then again, she might be riding the Cock Carousel. One thing for sure, you don't want to lower yourself to sniffing her undies, checking her phone, etc. Get a Pro to check her out. She could be innocent.[/QUOTE]I would also agree with this. You could go the PI route to verify your suspicions.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2833914]I would also agree with this. You could go the PI route to verify your suspicions.[/QUOTE]Personally, if you have reached the point where your spidey-sense is telling you to get a PI, then you've crossed the Rubicon. You don't trust her and should cut your losses.

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2834126]Personally, if you have reached the point where your spidey-sense is telling you to get a PI, then you've crossed the Rubicon. You don't trust her and should cut your losses.[/QUOTE]One thing at Hoya, it is worth giving her a chance to explain herself and clear the air. She has provided good service and is special to you. Yes, maybe she has gone off the reservation, but she might be willing to straighten up -at least for a little while longer. It is a big hit to lose all that you are giving her. Just know that she won't be with you forever -that day always comes with these age inappropriate youngsters.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2829071]A lot of what you described I went through with my Ex. Without turning this post into a about me note, the advice I'm giving you is to follow your gut. Sounds like She has started to play and you don't want to be the Man doing panty checks at 4 am. Money is totally your call but I'd advice stepping up to covering a month's expenses for her to move out and on. Not because of any feeling of generosity but simply to make it more likely legal crap won't start up. Follow your gut, my friend.[/QUOTE]Had the talk. Told her I'd like to end things. She got defensive and into this rant about me being paranoid. Says when she's not with me she's at school, or hangouts with girlfriends. She asks me to GPS track her if I'm concerned about her whereabouts so much (don't think I'd ever do that).

The convo continues on and she explains how she gives me the benefit of the doubt when I don't pick up my phone or when I'm out at bars alone. She's basically telling me to cool out, there's no other guy (s). Addressing meeting as an SB specifically, she says stop treating it like we're SB / SD and she doesn't need $$, she wants more emotional support. Outwardly, I'm late 30's so on the surface it's not known that we met under "sugar" pretenses.

A few days after this blowup she's more informative about where she's at when out with friends. A couple days after the dust settles she jokingly brings up a "us with child" scenario. She even brings up that it's about time for me to meet her family.

Sounds like bringing up my uneasiness helped in some ways. It could be that it's fear on her side. In any case, got back in the SA game and have a couple M&Gs set up. I figure I'll see what else is out there and to take my mind of things.

First please accept my apologies for skipping off this valuable forum the past 8 months. Jumped into the bowl last summer after a year or so playing with reviewed BP girls. Won't go back to BP but I will admit the bowl requires some emotional fortitude. Last summer I posted some suggestions on inexpensive subscription websites for researching the POTs. Here is some extra detail. I am a headhunter by vocation and have used these sites for years. But it starts with getting their cell # (email address is good but I rely on the cell # Usually on my first or second SA message I will include my cell number and email address along with my name. Some will text me right off the bat, some I need to ask for it after a couple of more messages. Most of us know by now we can then go to FB and plug in the number to see if it pulls up her name and page. But if it doesn't then that is where these sites can greatly increase your chances of getting her actual full name so that you can go back to fb. Often you will have to go the Find Friends section and put in the town you think she lives in. These 3 sites can all do the same but I have found they each have their particular strength. [URL]www.peoplesmart.com[/URL] (23.40 a year) is my favorite for plugging in cell numbers, [URL]www.spokeo.com[/URL] (23.70 a year) is my favorite for plugging in email addresses (and pulling up court records and other social media) and [URL]www.intelius.com[/URL] (100 a year for 200 uses) is good for finding family members, age, and current / past addresses. Usually when they text me the first time they will give me their real first name which is a common denominator through the research process Although the spokeo court records does not specify the actual offense if there are a lot of arrests for fun I will google their name & "mugshot" (yes a few have popped up with their mugshot!) but better yet I stop by my local courthouse. NC has recently upgraded their clerk of court system. All I need is to type in their name into the computer (usually have 3 or 4 available) and in 5 seconds get every arrest record detail state wide with the option to send the record to my email address. But the real key for me is getting to the fb page. That way I can see real pics, past (and current) relationships and see if some of her friends are gangbangers from the hood. There have been times when I still could not find the POT on fb but often if I sit there for a couple of minutes and think of a creative angle and give it a second effort I will find it. For example, I will look at family member's names on intelius and then look them up on fb and see if they are connected to the POT. I have read some posts where a SD will simply ask for their fb page but I personally don't want them to know I am checking them out. I would be very interested in hearing of any other ideas or approaches on researching the POTs. And I promise to be a more active contributor so that some day I can earn the right to be a "senior member. ".

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2834850]Had the talk. Told her I'd like to end things. She got defensive and into this rant about me being paranoid. Says when she's not with me she's at school, or hangouts with girlfriends. She asks me to GPS track her if I'm concerned about her whereabouts so much (don't think I'd ever do that).

The convo continues on and she explains how she gives me the benefit of the doubt when I don't pick up my phone or when I'm out at bars alone. She's basically telling me to cool out, there's no other guy (s). Addressing meeting as an SB specifically, she says stop treating it like we're SB / SD and she doesn't need $$, she wants more emotional support. Outwardly, I'm late 30's so on the surface it's not known that we met under "sugar" pretenses.

A few days after this blowup she's more informative about where she's at when out with friends. A couple days after the dust settles she jokingly brings up a "us with child" scenario. She even brings up that it's about time for me to meet her family.

Sounds like bringing up my uneasiness helped in some ways. It could be that it's fear on her side. In any case, got back in the SA game and have a couple M&Gs set up. I figure I'll see what else is out there and to take my mind of things.[/QUOTE]Just my take: by the time you're at this point in things, where sentences start with "if you don't believe me then. " or "well I don't do _ when you _ " , then you are at THE POINT in the relationship..... you have reached the inflection point that makes married men want to search for something on the side. The beauty of it is, you were already on the side you just over extended your stay a bit.

Cut and run man. Willing women are everywhere. The less time you spend with each one the more skilled you get in acquiring new ones.

Yes I have a real relationship to keep my feet on the ground and my money in the bank. If I didn't have that, I would long for something real too, but looking for it among the sugar baby population is asking for a tough ride. Pluck the prime fruit from the tree and move to the next orchard. Rinse, repeat, and enjoy.

Have loved reading this board for quite some time. I'm outside of Richmond and not even in Virginia, but love following this thread. Personally I have found SA to be a great site with wonderful success. For me, SA has led to all sorts of experiences that were out of this world both as far as meeting high quality people and having awesome playtime without having to endure the hangovers and circles under the eyes from the bar & nightlife pickup scene or dealing with the drama of hookups through work and social circle connections. Most SA things fizzled out over time, but none ended badly. Lately, I've been thinking more about trying to branch out to coffee shop employees, retail workers, etc since in my city (like most) they tend to be very attractive and receptive to flirty conversation. Would love to hear any advice on connecting with potential SB's through everyday life (vs. Online) and ways to get to a proposal for an arrangement in some sort of gracious smooth way without scaring them away.

So my main area where I'm looking for advice here. I've found that having logistics ready (meaning a location ready for potential spontaneous playtime) is turning out to be a huge nightmare. For many reasons, my place would not be an option due to complex family situation and my desire to maintain privacy.

Whenever I negotiate and things get transactional, it tends to go nowhere, or the transaction discussion starts to proceed in such a way that I start to think I'm dealing with a professional escort or UTR (deal breaker for me and not interested). On the other hand, I have found that when I have a place available, virtually every genuine potential SB I meet from SA will have drinks and go back to my place with absolutely no mention of $. After any fun, I'm always generous with some allowance when we're saying goodbye.

Having a hotel room ready in advance is a waste if things don't go well. If things do start to go well, it's difficult to scramble to set up a hotel room. Have been thinking about maintaining a separate little corporate studio apartment or perhaps rent out a separate suitably set up cozy office with a nice little couch and bar set up. AirBnB might be another option and haven't learned much about it yet. A final idea would be to rent a room from someone (for example take the time to go visit rooms for rent off Craigslist and try to find a cool dude that keeps a place presentable), so it's ready when I need it. The challenge is I want to avoid any sort of lease or long term commitment and also keep the monthly cost to $500 or less, total, . And always have a second place available. In other words, some place that's always available to hang out, have a drink, etc and see if things escalate and turn into playtime. Thank you for any ideas or wisdom!

[QUOTE=Downtime15;2835483]
Having a hotel room ready in advance is a waste if things don't go well. If things do start to go well, it's difficult to scramble to set up a hotel room. Have been thinking about maintaining a separate little corporate studio apartment or perhaps rent out a separate suitably set up cozy office with a nice little couch and bar set up. AirBnB might be another option and haven't learned much about it yet. A final idea would be to rent a room from someone (for example take the time to go visit rooms for rent off Craigslist and try to find a cool dude that keeps a place presentable), so it's ready when I need it. The challenge is I want to avoid any sort of lease or long term commitment and also keep the monthly cost to $500 or less, total, . And always have a second place available. In other words, some place that's always available to hang out, have a drink, etc and see if things escalate and turn into playtime. Thank you for any ideas or wisdom![/QUOTE]One might be surprised how many hotels offer "short stay" rooms. Might be more prevalent during daytime hours when cleaning crews are still around as the marginal cost of another cleaning is very low and additional revenue is always welcome.

Depending on the location, star ranking of the property and how booked they are determinants as to evening availability for ST.

So call around and see who offers ST rooms. I suspect if one is a frequent visitor or gets to know the manager well, that rules might be bent. A little "grease" always gets the wheels moving smoother!

StormyTuesday;2835010 First please accept my apologies for skipping off this valuable forum the past 8 months. Jumped into the bowl last summer after a year or so playing with reviewed BP girls. Won't go back to BP but I will admit the bowl requires some emotional fortitude. Last summer I posted some suggestions on inexpensive subscription websites for researching the POTs. Here is some extra detail. I am a headhunter by vocation and have used these sites for years. But it starts with getting their cell # (email address is good but I rely on the cell # Usually on my first or second SA message I will include my cell number and email address along with my name. Some will text me right off the bat, some I need to ask for it after a couple of more messages. Most of us know by now we can then go to FB and plug in the number to see if it pulls up her name and page. But if it doesn't then that is where these sites can greatly increase your chances of getting her actual full name so that you can go back to fb. Often you will have to go the Find Friends section and put in the town you think she lives in. These 3 sites can all do the same but I have found they each have their particular strength. [URL]www.peoplesmart.com[/URL] (23.40 a year) is my favorite for plugging in cell numbers, [URL]www.spokeo.com[/URL] (23.70 a year) is my favorite for plugging in email addresses (and pulling up court records and other social media) and [URL]www.intelius.com[/URL] (100 a year for 200 uses) is good for finding family members, age, and current / past addresses. Usually when they text me the first time they will give me their real first name which is a common denominator through the research process Although the spokeo court records does not specify the actual offense if there are a lot of arrests for fun I will google their name & "mugshot" (yes a few have popped up with their mugshot!) but better yet I stop by my local courthouse.

Great post, great suggestions.

I too am in NC and use this site often:

[URL]http://www1.aoc.state.nc.us/www/calendars/CriminalQuery.html[/URL]

However, it seems to provide current charges, not historic charges or convictions. Do you have another site to recommend?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2835656]One might be surprised how many hotels offer "short stay" rooms. Might be more prevalent during daytime hours![/QUOTE]You should ask for a "half day" rate. This is what hotels call it when you want a late checkout, but they have lots of incoming guests and can't give you the free extra time.

If you are worried about looking a little sleazy, or why you're checking into a hotel when you live locally-since I do check your I'd at check in. Tell them you recently moved but we're coming back to the area because your business is still here, I have to sell your house, etc.

Sometimes I've called the hotel and said one of my employees is flying in from the West Coast and needs to check in early to freshen up before presentation or whatever.