"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

This is something I hear often. I can't speak for other men, but I know it is true for me.

When I was in my twenties, I had not achieved much success and could be insecure. I would try to hide my insecurity by showing off and trying to prove myself. I would act like a "peacock" trying to impress the women. I could also be jealous and selfish in my relationships.

Now that I am 50+, I am much more confident and do not need to show off. (I think Jim Brown, Walter Payton. Barry Sanders. They never spiked the football or did an end zone dance. They acted like they had been there before and will be there again).

I'm not jealous and am drama free. I've learned that if I please a woman she will please me 10 x. Things I used to not like to do (like oral), I now enjoy and take pride in my ability to please.

I'm also much more confident in the dominant role and find many Younger women are attracted to this. Thank you Internet porn and 50 Shades of Grey!

I eat healthy, exercise and laugh a lot. Laughter keeps you youthful, healthy and happy and is a real aphrodisiac. I don't feel much different now that when I was in my twenties.

I am more successful with woman now than I was in my twenties and many without sugar. As experienced successful men we have advantages. Women (and even more so young women) are attracted to confidence. Remember that confidence is attractive. Arrogance is ugly. The difference is that confidence is believing in your talents and abilities, and arrogance is believing that you are better than someone else because of your talents and abilities. Subtle, but important as many SBs complain about arrogant men on the site.

By knowing my strengths and having confidence in those strengths, I've attracted many women I would have never attracted in twenties. It's not true for all women, but many prefer older men and I believe I understand why.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2827554]One thing I have heard MOST often from the under 30 crowd is the men they date are clueless in bed. Even the freakiest are quite appreciative of someone who takes their time and assures their pleasure.

Plus most guys don't have their lives / acts together until their mid 30's. Don't know to buy gifts -- even if they can afford them -- let alone the little and grand gestures that make women squeal.

A lot of girls have "boyfriends" because they don't like being alone. BF by default. Who wants to be the only one of FB not showing off the fact they AREN:T attached>

Let's not forget what passes for a man amongs the 20 somethings. Have you seen these man-ginas? The poofy high hair, stubble beard and wire rimmed glasses (think the ex husband on The Blacklist) who have all been raised to be sensitive and inoffensive. They would run to their safe-space with their dicks between their legs the minute some submissive SB (and that seems to be the majority) wants to be choked or called a dirty little ****. These girls are seeking a real man, and know they won't find one under 35.

Daddy issues are pretty strong too -- had one girl go on and on about how her dad was a poor provider, unambitious etc. And all night long kept calling me Daddy and asking Daddy to fuck her ass hard. If I gave two shits about her, I'd be worried she'd spend the next decade trying to replace her failed father with meaningless degrading sexual escapades for money.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2827388]Got to remember that these unimpressive deadbeats were knocking the bottom out of these babies way before they became babies. This is what drove them to the site, tired of supporting these guys. Thats what 3 out of 4 girls tell me, especially the ones with kids and grown up responsibility. They list financial help first then down the list maybe an attraction to older guys. The older guy represents financial help, hopefully stability and no drama. I have had girls who have had long term arrangement s of over a year tell me that when it was over they was relieved because they never liked the guy. He was reliable income they could depend on. So when your telling urself how much this baby is into you, do the test. Cut off the sugar and see how long she sticks around. If she does then the daddy is a lucky guy, if she disappears and her profile pops back up then you have the answer. Oh and that depends on if her profile stays active while your seeing her. If it does then you already have the answer.[/QUOTE]Single moms have a unique plight all their own. Most of what I said before applies to them as well I'm sure, but as you said once a kid emerges from their twat, their focus shifts to providing the best possible life for said larva. Some of the best fucks I've ever had in my life were from single moms. So is it a bad thing that they are even more motivated to find a reliable provider after childbirth? I don't think it's bad at all, human nature really. Science has proven that at a biological level (as opposed to cultural, for purposes of this topic -- nature over nuture), faced with a mutually exclusive choice between financial success and physical attractiveness, women will choose financial success. Ok, never mind that so many of them have the entitled attitude and believe they deserve and will achieve both (especially when they are 18 and clueless to their future reality), but the reason goes back to wanting "smart seed" making contact with their egg instead of "cute but stupid seed". In other words given a choice between a man who looks okay but is more career successful, and a man who looks great but isn't particularly successful, a woman will choose the career guy over the bohunk because her instincts tell her the offspring (and their offspring) will take better care of her when she's of nursing home age. Simplified, it's basic mating instinct. We can observe exceptions here and there, but the biology still pulls things in one direction eventually.

OK, I'll admit I am a bargain hunter. I realize a lot of guys are satisfied with nothing less than a 10, and they're willing to shell out thousands of dollars a month or several hundred dollars a visit to get it. I used to be that guy. I have been on SA for a while, and now I don't pay for meet and greets, offer monthly retainers, or pay more than $200 for a romp. But that means I am not scoring in the 10+ category, either. And you know what? I don't miss the high-end sugar babies a bit.

Mostly I dabble in the 5-6-7 range, including some BBWs. Most of them are chicks ages 30 and up who have poor-paying jobs, kids, and struggle like hell just to make ends meet. Although they are not all eye candy, some of the performances in the sack have been off the charts.

There is no point to this post except to say for other lurkers that there is good ROI at the lower end of the scale. Make no mistake, I tried the 10+ subar babies in their 20's, but as a guy entering his sixties I often felt rushed and ripped off. These days I find myself much happier playing at the other end of the scale.

Been having a steady relationship with my SB turned SO. I explained I'd been tempted to cum inside lately. A week later she went to the gyno for a routine check up. We don't have any STDs and have been relying on the pull out method. There haven't been any slip ups or close calls. She inserted the IUD a week ago. Would you trust the IUD to start unloading inside? She's been having girl nights and occasionally not coming home. I have no proof that she's stepped out on our "exclusive" relationship, but my intuition says maybe she has other relationships. She's early 20's and is a 10/10/10. I don't know if I should cut her lose due to my gut feeling or not. The subconsious is powerful. The fact I've been checking her panties lately has me thinking that I either don't trust her and there's a reason or I'm super paranoid. She's guarded about her phones sometimes and I've never been the type to ask for a phone check, but I have my suspiciousness that it's a landline. Asking to see her phone would show a lack of confidence. I'm considering just ending it and moving on based on a gut feeling. I enjoyed the relationship because I had a hot girl and more time to focus on work. She was my personal pleasure. Now with the distance and her spending time with her 20's peer group, it makes me uneasy. I don't want to go back to sugar dating, but it would be good to find another 10/10/10 replacement.

Do you guys end it based on gut feeling or give it more time to play out. Financially if I left it would hinder her. She's a full time grad student and has all the perks of dating a successful older guy. She drives either my new Range Rover or my Porsche to class everyday. I know she's loving the stability and the lifestyle of dealing with a guy like me, but I'm unsure if she'd compromise it by having a side relationship. I'm really close to cutting her lose. I know I'd be sad to see her go, but my intuition tells me something isn't right. When do you guys cut your babies loose. I'm willing to offer her a couple weeks of $$$ just to let her adjust. I think this SB / SO experiment has run its course.

Thoughts from the BRO Commission?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2827024]CDC estimates that, annually, 776,000 people in the United States get new herpes infections. How many of you here have it? Probably more than a few. Think about the ones who don't tell us.[/QUOTE]I always hear that this is common, but I've only ran across one girl that had it and was open about it. As soon as she told me, I ended the relationship. We never had sex. The babies I've dealt with admiringly had some sexual history. I've only barebacked based off a conversation about STDs and never had any issues. When I read forums on it, the consensus is that it's not a big deal, but I always thought it'd be an inconvenience to have. After a year of BB, the thought of going back to dating new girls and wearing condoms sucks. It's making me hesitant to get back in the game with new babies. The 20 yr olds in the DC metro area are probably all having sex with multiple partners similar to guys. If I end it with my "one-on-one" SB, I may take a break from sex for awhile.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2828869]Been having a steady relationship with my SB turned SO. I explained I'd been tempted to cum inside lately. A week later she went to the gyno for a routine check up. We don't have any STDs and have been relying on the pull out method. There haven't been any slip ups or close calls. She inserted the IUD a week ago. Would you trust the IUD to start unloading inside? She's been having girl nights and occasionally not coming home. I have no proof that she's stepped out on our "exclusive" relationship, but my intuition says maybe she has other relationships. She's early 20's and is a 10/10/10. I don't know if I should cut her lose due to my gut feeling or not. The subconsious is powerful. The fact I've been checking her panties lately has me thinking that I either don't trust her and there's a reason or I'm super paranoid. She's guarded about her phones sometimes and I've never been the type to ask for a phone check, but I have my suspiciousness that it's a landline. Asking to see her phone would show a lack of confidence. I'm considering just ending it and moving on based on a gut feeling. I enjoyed the relationship because I had a hot girl and more time to focus on work. She was my personal pleasure. Now with the distance and her spending time with her 20's peer group, it makes me uneasy. I don't want to go back to sugar dating, but it would be good to find another 10/10/10 replacement.

Do you guys end it based on gut feeling or give it more time to play out. Financially if I left it would hinder her. She's a full time grad student and has all the perks of dating a successful older guy. She drives either my new Range Rover or my Porsche to class everyday. I know she's loving the stability and the lifestyle of dealing with a guy like me, but I'm unsure if she'd compromise it by having a side relationship. I'm really close to cutting her lose. I know I'd be sad to see her go, but my intuition tells me something isn't right. When do you guys cut your babies loose. I'm willing to offer her a couple weeks of $$$ just to let her adjust. I think this SB / SO experiment has run its course.

Thoughts from the BRO Commission?[/QUOTE]Hey, I don't get this this- expecting a 20-something to be in an "exclusive relationship" with a SD? Huh?

1) I can't see any girl signing up for such unless it is a tremendous amount of sugar, like 5-grand a month or something. No way to tell if she's dating others, but I'd assume she probably is. While I don't want my SB sleeping around, I'm not naive enough to think she isn't doing it. I wouldn't want an "exclusive" relationship with her unless we were crossing the marriage line.

2) Why care if she dates others? IS one concerned about STDs from this kind of situation? Me thinks this is the roll of the dice that goes with SB / SD dating? Point is that the incedences of STDs is a VERY low percentage to start with and unless she's a drug addict or pro sex worker the chances of catching anything are low. But hey, one can always cover up and protect themself.

3) Would I trust just an IUD? Depends on how young & fertile I was. As a mature dude, I'm not shooting the gallons I once did as a 20-pup. Frequency and TIMING are another consideration- remember the old "rhythm method" of birth control, before the pill was wide spread? But hey, if you are concerned, you could add some spermicide to your foreplay and get an added level of protection. Spermicide alone, not so good, combined with another form of contraception = EXCELLENT!

Good luck and stay safe!

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2828869]Been having a steady relationship with my SB turned SO. I explained I'd been tempted to cum inside lately. A week later she went to the gyno for a routine check up. We don't have any STDs and have been relying on the pull out method. There haven't been any slip ups or close calls. She inserted the IUD a week ago. Would you trust the IUD to start unloading inside? She's been having girl nights and occasionally not coming home. I have no proof that she's stepped out on our "exclusive" relationship, but my intuition says maybe she has other relationships. She's early 20's and is a 10/10/10. I don't know if I should cut her lose due to my gut feeling or not. The subconsious is powerful. The fact I've been checking her panties lately has me thinking that I either don't trust her and there's a reason or I'm super paranoid. She's guarded about her phones sometimes and I've never been the type to ask for a phone check, but I have my suspiciousness that it's a landline. Asking to see her phone would show a lack of confidence. I'm considering just ending it and moving on based on a gut feeling. I enjoyed the relationship because I had a hot girl and more time to focus on work. She was my personal pleasure. Now with the distance and her spending time with her 20's peer group, it makes me uneasy. I don't want to go back to sugar dating, but it would be good to find another 10/10/10 replacement.

Do you guys end it based on gut feeling or give it more time to play out. Financially if I left it would hinder her. She's a full time grad student and has all the perks of dating a successful older guy. She drives either my new Range Rover or my Porsche to class everyday. I know she's loving the stability and the lifestyle of dealing with a guy like me, but I'm unsure if she'd compromise it by having a side relationship. I'm really close to cutting her lose. I know I'd be sad to see her go, but my intuition tells me something isn't right. When do you guys cut your babies loose. I'm willing to offer her a couple weeks of $$$ just to let her adjust. I think this SB / SO experiment has run its course.

Thoughts from the BRO Commission?[/QUOTE]A lot of what you described I went through with my Ex. Without turning this post into a about me note, the advice I'm giving you is to follow your gut. Sounds like She has started to play and you don't want to be the Man doing panty checks at 4 am. Money is totally your call but I'd advice stepping up to covering a month's expenses for her to move out and on. Not because of any feeling of generosity but simply to make it more likely legal crap won't start up. Follow your gut, my friend.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2828466]OK, I'll admit I am a bargain hunter. I realize a lot of guys are satisfied with nothing less than a 10, and they're willing to shell out thousands of dollars a month or several hundred dollars a visit to get it. I used to be that guy. I have been on SA for a while, and now I don't pay for meet and greets, offer monthly retainers, or pay more than $200 for a romp. But that means I am not scoring in the 10+ category, either. And you know what? I don't miss the high-end sugar babies a bit.

Mostly I dabble in the 5-6-7 range, including some BBWs. Most of them are chicks ages 30 and up who have poor-paying jobs, kids, and struggle like hell just to make ends meet. Although they are not all eye candy, some of the performances in the sack have been off the charts.

There is no point to this post except to say for other lurkers that there is good ROI at the lower end of the scale. Make no mistake, I tried the 10+ subar babies in their 20's, but as a guy entering his sixties I often felt rushed and ripped off. These days I find myself much happier playing at the other end of the scale.[/QUOTE]Good post, your exactly right and there is quite a bit of gems out there if your not hung up on the 10 s that cost little to nothi g. They just want to be treated good and shown some respect.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2829026]Hey, I don't get this this- expecting a 20-something to be in an "exclusive relationship" with a SD? Huh?

1) I can't see any girl signing up for such unless it is a tremendous amount of sugar, like 5-grand a month or something. No way to tell if she's dating others, but I'd assume she probably is. While I don't want my SB sleeping around, I'm not naive enough to think she isn't doing it. I wouldn't want an "exclusive" relationship with her unless we were crossing the marriage line.
[/QUOTE]This.

And it's not necessarily sugar, especially if you've crossed over into a non-SD / SB style of relationship. All sorts of factors play into this, and can blindside you in even the most seemingly unlikely ways.

I've certainly made my own life complicated, and don't want to publicly overshare. It's been a wild, educational ride for me, PM me if you're interested. One that's not over yet, and even though I know what a lot of the seniors would say, I'm still conflicted about where I go from here.

If I get enough interest, I'll craft a short summary of the past 12 months. One that I've been meaning to write and post but never pulled the trigger since it didn't seem broadly relevant and is nearly impossible to do without the overshare problem.

@ Hoya.

I agree with your need for monogamy-I demand it although I can't prove it. You are emotionally involved which makes it harder. You have 2 choices:

1) dump her on a suspicion or 2) keep her because she makes you happy. We all know a 20 something is not going to hang with a 50 something for ever. She is using you -much like a parent at home and getting her playing in as well. And she probably loves you in some capacity as well.

I would recommend having THE TALK with her. Of course she can lie her ass off, but you can read though the lines. You have reasonable expectation of fidelity since you are paying her well, she's living in your home, driving your cars, etc. Tell her your feelings and needs. You don't want a prisoner, so it is OK for her to hang out with her peer group and be a 20 yr old. It just isn't OK for her to be fucking random dudes-STDs, respect, whatever.

Another option is to put a PI on her and see if she is cheating, or just socializing. I know my kids -when they were 20 something, had friends of both sexes and weren't sleeping with them. Maybe you are worrying for nothing, but then again, she might be riding the Cock Carousel. One thing for sure, you don't want to lower yourself to sniffing her undies, checking her phone, etc. Get a Pro to check her out. She could be innocent.

At Cigar.

Good point. I tend to do the same. I fish in the 7-8 range blue collar zone. These girls are a little needier, less spoiled, and more appreciative as long as they aren't Nando 1's. Drug and alcohol addiction is a no go. They are hopeless and dangerous.

My current SB is a young unwed mother who is massively improved by my reasonable allowance. Many of the college snots scoff at my offer, but who needs them? In the bedroom their pussies are no better than my 7 . I need 20 somethings and 8+ bodies, but don't need a fashion model.

I think it is totally unrealistic to expect monogamy from a 20 something lady. Especially if she is in college. You have to accept that she has friends and a social world entirely different from yours that you can never be part of. You can demand monogamy until you're blue in the face, but it just isn't going to happen. I find it especially amusing the number of guys who are running 3 or4 babies at a time and expect them to be monogamous. As long as your baby is being attentive, reliable and rocking your world in bed, I think you're better off just enjoying the ride. As has been mentioned, these are temporary relationships. Hoya's situation is a bit different since she's crossed that line to SO from SB and she's living with him. Still, if she still shows him respect and affection, I think he should overlook an occasional dalliance with someone in her peer group.

I'm polyamorous so strive to be accepting of my babies' lives outside of our relationship. Do I ever get jealous? Absolutely, but you need to think things through logically and realize that jealousy is really a stupid emotion, especially in these types of relationships. I do draw the line at supporting deadbeat boyfriends though. If I ever get an inkling that my funds are supporting some loser that's pimping out his GF to an SD to support his lifestyle, the party is over.

Just my thoughts.

Good Hunting!

Travelin.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2829472]I think it is totally unrealistic to expect monogamy from a 20 something lady. Especially if she is in college. You have to accept that she has friends and a social world entirely different from yours that you can never be part of. You can demand monogamy until you're blue in the face, but it just isn't going to happen. I find it especially amusing the number of guys who are running 3 or4 babies at a time and expect them to be monogamous. As long as your baby is being attentive, reliable and rocking your world in bed, I think you're better off just enjoying the ride. As has been mentioned, these are temporary relationships. Hoya's situation is a bit different since she's crossed that line to SO from SB and she's living with him. Still, if she still shows him respect and affection, I think he should overlook an occasional dalliance with someone in her peer group.

I'm polyamorous so strive to be accepting of my babies' lives outside of our relationship. Do I ever get jealous? Absolutely, but you need to think things through logically and realize that jealousy is really a stupid emotion, especially in these types of relationships. I do draw the line at supporting deadbeat boyfriends though. If I ever get an inkling that my funds are supporting some loser that's pimping out his GF to an SD to support his lifestyle, the party is over.

Just my thoughts.

Good Hunting!

Travelin.[/QUOTE]Your exactly on point. I was shocked at the way these young girls party, especially the college crowd. Most of them drink till they pass out and have no idea what happens after that or remember have 2-3 guys going at them before they pass out. Alot of guys here are happy if their baby has 4-5 daddy's thinking this is better and safer than an escort. They don't take in the possibility of the gang bangs they experience while partii g.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2829558]Your exactly on point. I was shocked at the way these young girls party, especially the college crowd. [/QUOTE]One of my SBs worked at a local beauty salon. She told me girls would come in to get their vag's waxed on Friday afternoon "in case" they hooked up Friday night.

One came in super hungover Saturday AM to get cleaned up for her formal that night and her belly and vag area were crusted in cum -- "oh, sorry, forgot I hooked up last night" More like, just remember "I was ridden like Seattle Slew by the lacrosse team last night".

And this is the hoity toidy UVA crowd!

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2829472]I'm polyamorous so strive to be accepting of my babies' lives outside of our relationship. Do I ever get jealous? Absolutely, but you need to think things through logically and realize that jealousy is really a stupid emotion, especially in these types of relationships.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I was pretty amazed at how strong and poisonous jealousy can be. Haven't really been in too many life situations where that was triggered, but the my recent blindsiding was educational. There were lots of pragmatic reasons for me to have a negative opinion on the events that were unfolding (obviously involving indiscretion on her part), but the raw jealousy component took me by surprise. So much so that I admitted that, yeah, it's a factor. That I wished I could be "above it all" in that regard, but no such luck.