"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Yes I stand corrected, I have been seeing this beauty who I missed last week due to that time of the month. Well saw her middle of last week, WOW!! She was in heat after the hormonal surge it was clear she was not making an excuse, thoroughly enjoyed the session. Unfortunately she lost her job now, sounds like she is solely dependent on me. I am always looking for new prospects but I really would not mind to keep this one for a while.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2766657]I need to clarify. You may of missed the rest of the story. Short version here. Hand picked girl been watching for 2 years. Not on a site looking for a SD. Spent 2. 5 mths meeting with her and helping her at that time w / o panties on the floor. So when we first had a FC engagement I was in for maybe 2 k. But now that we have had a number of FC engagements my CTF is going down. I have her on a regular allowance about 200 wk. We see each other 1-2 x a week. It was more of the upfront investment that has driven the CTF so high but decreases now each time we meet. More details if you care to search my posts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SouthShoreAlex;2770535]So recently I've been flirting it up pretty good with a couple of different bartenders, the thought occurred to me that either of these young ladies would make.

Perfect sugar babies. Since I'm in a relationship (ring included) and significantly older (20+ years) than these girls, the idea of making a straight.

"lets go out" move just fly's in the face of reality. I would love to hear from anyone with experience with broaching this sensitive subject.

For that matter any help or real life experience stories about moving into a UTR or sugar baby relationship that didn't originate from a baby site would be.

Helpful.[/QUOTE]JeezLizard is the most experienced PUA that I recall on this Board. If he is still lurking he would be the best to talk to. He no longer posts -at least in a while. Drunks trying to pickup the cute barmaid is a cliche'. You will be one of many I'm sure . OTOH ,if you have private time with her and have gotten to know her a little I would just come right out and ask her . Ask if she knows what a SB is. If she says yes, then ask if she would ever consider being one . If she says yes then you are golden to make your pitch. You can meet her for a drink after work and educate her. If she says no ,then see if she wants to know . Then you can educate and pitch her .

SugarDaddyX-I would not waste your time trying to convert a Platonic. The likelihood of success is slim and your money / efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2770637],if you have private time with her and have gotten to know her a little I would just come right out and ask her . Ask if she knows what a SB is. If she says yes, then ask if she would ever consider being one . If she says yes then you are golden to make your pitch. You can meet her for a drink after work and educate her. If she says no ,then see if she wants to know . Then you can educate and pitch her.[/QUOTE]Don't bring up the term SB. Why be ring allowances or p4 p into it at all?

Think of it as dating, but no real "dates" will be forthcoming -- just shagging. Get her out of the workplace -- invite her to lunch. Broad daylight, nicer place than she can probably afford. Get to know her. Find out what her situation is (I know a smokin' hot chick that bartends one night a month because she knows she can make $500 in tips, easy. Drunks over tipping hot bartenders is the BIGGEST cliche) -- she may not need cash, so the idea of bringing up sugar opens a door you may not need to open. Maybe she knows what an SB is and thinks they are ****** -- don't insult her.

Maybe she doesn't want to be a bar tender any longer, but does not know how to make the transition, needs help with her college applications, or maybe would need support to give up a lucrative gig that is not long term viable anyway so she can start taking classes.

The key to any negotiation is finding out what the other party values, then providing it at a cost to you lower than the value to them.

A $2,000 purse is wasted on a girl who can't afford a $200 one, but she will be over the moon appreciative of a $200 purse as a gift. Means little to you, means the world to them (as in yes you can give me anal for the first time world).

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2770318]How does she feel when the ticket seller at the movie theatre asks you if you want the Senior Discount?[/QUOTE]Ouch! That was a good one. LMAO. Fortunately I can purchase the movie tickets online using Fandango.

Does she know your real identity? If so will that be an issue?. Can you walk away from ever going to that location again if things go wrong?? Just some thoughts.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2770637]JeezLizard is the most experienced PUA that I recall on this Board. If he is still lurking he would be the best to talk to. He no longer posts -at least in a while. Drunks trying to pickup the cute barmaid is a cliche'. You will be one of many I'm sure . OTOH ,if you have private time with her and have gotten to know her a little I would just come right out and ask her . Ask if she knows what a SB is. If she says yes, then ask if she would ever consider being one . If she says yes then you are golden to make your pitch. You can meet her for a drink after work and educate her. If she says no ,then see if she wants to know . Then you can educate and pitch her .

SugarDaddyX-I would not waste your time trying to convert a Platonic. The likelihood of success is slim and your money / efforts would be better spent elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

Great advice here without being condescending. Figuring out what makes her tick is key.

As an aside, two trades that I've found are tough to crack are bartenders and strippers. Most of these ladies make a living off selling the idea of sex with them.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2770787]Don't bring up the term SB. Why be ring allowances or p4 p into it at all?

Think of it as dating, but no real "dates" will be forthcoming -- just shagging. Get her out of the workplace -- invite her to lunch. Broad daylight, nicer place than she can probably afford. Get to know her. Find out what her situation is (I know a smokin' hot chick that bartends one night a month because she knows she can make $500 in tips, easy. Drunks over tipping hot bartenders is the BIGGEST cliche) -- she may not need cash, so the idea of bringing up sugar opens a door you may not need to open. Maybe she knows what an SB is and thinks they are ****** -- don't insult her.

Maybe she doesn't want to be a bar tender any longer, but does not know how to make the transition, needs help with her college applications, or maybe would need support to give up a lucrative gig that is not long term viable anyway so she can start taking classes.

The key to any negotiation is finding out what the other party values, then providing it at a cost to you lower than the value to them.

A $2,000 purse is wasted on a girl who can't afford a $200 one, but she will be over the moon appreciative of a $200 purse as a gift. Means little to you, means the world to them (as in yes you can give me anal for the first time world).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SouthShoreAlex;2770535]So recently I've been flirting it up pretty good with a couple of different bartenders, the thought occurred to me that either of these young ladies would make.

Perfect sugar babies. Since I'm in a relationship (ring included) and significantly older (20+ years) than these girls, the idea of making a straight.

"lets go out" move just fly's in the face of reality. I would love to hear from anyone with experience with broaching this sensitive subject.

For that matter any help or real life experience stories about moving into a UTR or sugar baby relationship that didn't originate from a baby site would be.

Helpful.[/QUOTE]The title of this post caught my eye. I have tried this with several "friends" of friends. Hot chicks that like to flaunt their stuff on facebook and they like to post those memes talking about getting paid and what not for their peice of a $$. 9. 99 times out of 10 they are full of sh at t! It appears some girls want to talk the big stuff until confronted. I'm almost 50 and I am at the point in life where I just come right out and say it. " don't be offended but are you up for getting paid for sex" or something along that nature depends on how well I know them. I think alot of young girls "like" the idea of it but when it comes up in reality they freak out.

On the other hand I have approached middle age women with the "can we have an affair" and damned if that doesn't work! Age difference I suppose. I prefer the middle aged to the younger ones anyway they just know how to screw better and appreciate, until you mess up and get a psychotic one.

I am pretty sure hoyasvnfgr's set up is already "permanent" since she is a live in SO who met him off SA.

It also sounds like he is / was looking for something more than NSA fun.

While I think her behavior is a little crazy, his story is what brings these girls to the site in droves: I. E. SB, bragging to her friends about meeting a rich successful daddy off the site.

[QUOTE=S2568;2765933]Holy shit!!

She sounds like she is behaving like a wife, she is getting her way by throwing temper tantrums and letting you get close to her. You might as well get a permanent set up man!! I thought we are in this fot No Strings attached fun relationship. I care about them and mean well for them but not as much as them controlling my life. Feel sorry for you man. Good luck, I think it is time for you to move on and find another one.

My two cents.[/QUOTE]

There is a couple on SA, if you want to know PM me, be warned these two or more in to each other than you, will milk you as much as they can and leave you dry.

Don't waste your time or money. Gave them a try for a while and did not get anything out of it but some nudes pics. There aren't many on there any way you can easily guess who they are.

S2568.

Saw a girl today from SA, seen her a very long time ago during the glory days of avex and *********. Will be seeing her more often in the future. Went like, military boycame home after a long away from home and pleasures of life.

Some of you who have been in this for a while will recognize her if you know the name, still goes with the same and profile picture too.

[QUOTE=S2568;2772400]Saw a girl today from SA, seen her a very long time ago during the glory days of avex and *********. Will be seeing her more often in the future. Went like, military boycame home after a long away from home and pleasures of life.

Some of you who have been in this for a while will recognize her if you know the name, still goes with the same and profile picture too.[/QUOTE]Sorry my brother, but how is this in the least bit helpful to anyone? Are you warning us, or touting her? It's just all a bit too vague for this old timer.

[QUOTE=SouthShoreAlex;2770535]So recently I've been flirting it up pretty good with a couple of different bartenders, the thought occurred to me that either of these young ladies would make perfect sugar babies. Since I'm in a relationship (ring included) and significantly older (20+ years) than these girls, the idea of making a straight. "lets go out" move just fly's in the face of reality. I would love to hear from anyone with experience with broaching this sensitive subject.
For that matter any help or real life experience stories about moving into a UTR or sugar baby relationship that didn't originate from a baby site would be helpful.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2770637]JeezLizard is the most experienced PUA that I recall on this Board. If he is still lurking he would be the best to talk to. He no longer posts -at least in a while. Drunks trying to pickup the cute barmaid is a cliche'. You will be one of many I'm sure . OTOH ,if you have private time with her and have gotten to know her a little I would just come right out and ask her . Ask if she knows what a SB is. If she says yes, then ask if she would ever consider being one . If she says yes then you are golden to make your pitch. You can meet her for a drink after work and educate her. If she says no ,then see if she wants to know . Then you can educate and pitch her .
[/QUOTE]I sometimes scan posts but almost never read entire posts unless something catches my eye (as the moniker reference above did), and as you said just don't post anymore. I just got to a point where it seemed like all the important things had been said and archived, so it didn't seem like an effective use of time. However, I don't think I ever discussed opinions about bartenders as SBs, so. Why not.

I see bartenders as no good for SBs *if* you meet them at their place of work. There are some important reasons bartending differs from other server industry jobs -- they are more invested in their actual skillset than for example a stripper, waitress or hostess. Some states require certification, and even in states that don't require it they usually are certified and trained to do their job. This means they are less transient in their jobs, and often work at the same place for years at a time. Their job is a bit more authoritative in nature than the others (they become sort of like babysitters or lifeguards for the drunks), and this tends to bring out the maturity factor and sense of responsibility in them (or perhaps draw that kind of person to the job role). They often make better money than a typical server, and they are in an intentionally non-sexual role (unlike a stripper). That said, I have met bartenders on SB websites before, so yes there are some who would like to upgrade their lifestyle, it's just that approaching them at work is probably working against you in more cases than not.

If you have a bartender that you think is sending strong vibes (it definitely does happen, sometimes they just like you and you'll see the difference in how they treat you vs. Other customers) then by all means pursue it if you don't have other reasons not to. I've had this happen to me in the past, and the only reason I didn't follow up on the opportunities was because it always seemed to happen at some of my favorite haunts. I didn't want to date an employee of bars that I regularly went to and hooked up with random women, because regardless of whether things went well or not she's always going to be there behind the bar while I'm trying to operate. I felt the same way about dating waitresses at some of these places -- no matter how strong they came on I would avoid if it was a place I liked to keep going back to. The number of random women coming through the doors of the places was always many times greater and offered far better variety than the same set of bartenders or waitresses at any given place, no matter how hot they were.

As far as to how to test the waters to see if a girl can be flipped to an SB, just bring up the subject of arrangements with her in a way that doesn't involve her directly. As you're talking, you're trying to read her to see what pushes her buttons (sometimes none of it does but you don't know until you try), then if she starts responding positively you start working your way more toward the idea of trying something between the two of you. I wouldn't directly suggest going out, because that makes it too personal and requires her to think about the idea of genuine fondness for you if it sounds like a date. Gravitating the conversation toward the concept of an arrangement seems is less risky, it implies a NSA just for fun sort of thing where you both get what you want then part ways. What works (or whether it works at all) is different for every girl (and even your own personal style of dealing with them). Strip clubs are good for practicing this, simply because of the sheer number of opportunities per hour. Note I didn't say it's a good place to find an SB, unless she's already used to doing takeout, strippers are tough. But they are good for sharpening the dialog, and because they are so difficult to get what you want it makes you better when dealing with everyone else (because non strippers will seem less challenging by comparison). It's just salesmanship at the end of it all, and rejection is a part of it. The goal is to reduce the frequency of rejection to the point that you've always got a stream of multiple projects in flux, not to try to eliminate rejection entirely.

I decided to change my location in my profile on SA to a much larger southern city to see how different the activity was.

In less than 12 hours I received nearly 20 messages. Half were from girls reaching out to me after seeing I viewed their profile and the other half were from girls I had not even viewed. Very aggressive! 5 provided contact information in their opening message. Some even opening up with "let's meet, here is my number. ". Clearly a lot of pros and UTR's, but several that seem much more of a true SB nature.

My home territory is much smaller with fewer SBs in the area, and only a few new ones of interest every week. I almost always initiate the contact by messaging them first. I have a pretty high hit rate, but need too because the options are limited.

It's clear the bowl varies greatly by location. I will update if anything interesting comes of it.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2774474]I decided to change my location in my profile on SA to a much larger southern city to see how different the activity was.

In less than 12 hours I received nearly 20 messages. Half were from girls reaching out to me after seeing I viewed their profile and the other half were from girls I had not even viewed. Very aggressive! 5 provided contact information in their opening message. Some even opening up with "let's meet, here is my number. ". Clearly a lot of pros and UTR's, but several that seem much more of a true SB nature.

My home territory is much smaller with fewer SBs in the area, and only a few new ones of interest every week. I almost always initiate the contact by messaging them first. I have a pretty high hit rate, but need too because the options are limited.

It's clear the bowl varies greatly by location. I will update if anything interesting comes of it.[/QUOTE]Location is everything, works the same for the girl who is stuck in the middle of nowhere unless your willing to travel or pay to bring her to you.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2771671]I am pretty sure hoyasvnfgr's set up is already "permanent" since she is a live in SO who met him off SA.

It also sounds like he is / was looking for something more than NSA fun.

While I think her behavior is a little crazy, his story is what brings these girls to the site in droves: I. E. SB, bragging to her friends about meeting a rich successful daddy off the site.[/QUOTE]Shit happens. I whored in The Bowl so greatly that I grew tired. My situation is more amusing than anything. Between divorce and an SB, I learned more about the nature of women in this last year than anything. I got back in the hunt recently to soften the blow if things go south with my SB / SO.

As soon as I'm getting interest from POTS, my girl hits me with this talk about "our relationship isn't about $$ Don't buy me high dollar items anymore". I swear women have internal radar when you're starting to chat up other women. She still wants the relationship, but doesn't want to feel controlled by my money. I don't know what to make out of this, but if anything I've learned to never get oneitis and always keep one foot in the game.