"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2755448]

Yes! The sharing of needles by intravenous drug users is or was one of the primary modes of transmission of HIV. But today many states have needle exchange programs and the sharing of needles by hardcore, street level users has been eliminated.



But to assume just because a girl is using opiates that she has HIV or presents a risk is narrow-minded thinking. [/QUOTE]The sharing of needles is indeed one of the primary modes of HIV transmission and also Hepatitis. And while you would think that all states would have a needle exchange program, many do not. Virginia, for instance, does not. This in fact does lead to the addicts sharing needles. Because of this, I think you need to rethink your narrow minded comment. The bottom line is that in many states, like Virginia, the addicts can have a difficult time finding clean needles.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2755373]Mike7704 - Man I feel your pain and you wrote a lot, so a long reply.

From what you wrote it sounds like you feel more for this girl than the typical Sb used for fun. Trips, overnights and snuggling surely took their toll. While one of the rules is 'never fall in love with a working girl', I'm not judging you on that. It happens. Shoot been there done that. Sometimes you can't help it!

Now as far as her situation goes. Dude! If she moves in with 3-4 other drug users she is on the slippery slope to destruction. Way TOO many peer presures to degrade to the lowest common denominator! When the money runs out and the Jonesing starts, there is only one solution. The streets and whatever greaseball dude rolls up. Not your job to fix that but if one can help her avoid that situation, that's a first step.

I hear all of the calls for "getting her in rehab" and just sigh. I would have been one of those, until I read up on Heroin use and rehab. Send 'them to rehab, lock 'them up or just get them away from me! Out of sight out of mind. Then I would have thought, "they did this to them self, its' their fault, they need to do a fix them self. I was ignorant (lacked knowledge). Life is never that simple.

There are MANY people who are sick of being on drugs that go to rehab, come out and relapse and die. The problem is that most rehab is a joke. While the body might be rid of the drugs in 30-days the brain has NOT recovered from the changes caused by long-term H use. THAT might take 6-months or more. Then there are societal and cultural pressures that need to be addressed or relapse occurs. It isn't an easy process and not as easy as going to rehab or taking a pill (like you might do with another disease). But still I seem to think it was that easy.

So to run someone through a 30-day program and pronounce them "cured" is a joke. Second, MOST ALL rehab programs follow the 12-step model. While this might work for a few, it is largely ineffective and has a very high failure rate ( 90% Oh, sure, as a non-addict it is easy to sit back and agree with the philosophy that "if you really want to change, you can change. " This is a chemical alteration of the brain, that needs time to heal and no amount of personal will power can over come those changes. Also, 12-step philosophy forbids anyone from using any sort of drugs to address their addiction. A patient can get kicked out of the 12-step community for doing so. Now that is sad, since there are drugs like methadone, Subutex and Suboxone that ARE effective for treating opiate addiction. In fact, Suboxone acts in the body such that IF a patient takes opiates they get no high from them. But use those and the 12-step people shun you and any support network established is gone. They see it as substituting one drug for another. It isn't that simple. We need compassion and like my case, needed to get my head out of our right-winged azz! Pulling one's self up by their own boot straps isn't the answer to drug addiction! Final problem with opiate addiction is that more times than not the behavior (drug use) started because of some psychological issue. With out treating that and resolving it the triggers remain. Simply push the "cleaned-up" patient back into environments that helped them start drug use, is doomed to fail. So you run a person through a 30-day program, pronounce them "cured" and toss them right back into the same environment that spurred the drug use in the first place. Brilliant!

I thought I was fairly "in the know" on drug use and rehab. Boy was I wrong!? An open mind and and a read of this article sure demonstrated that! So I'll suggest it here for anyone who wishes to cure ignorance. Yeah, I know it is L-O-and-G, but a good education is never easy! It is eye-opening!

[URL]http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/dying-to-be-free-heroin-treatment[/URL]

But I have to laugh and cry about the reason a baby was dumped. That she lied? REALLY? All addicts lie, all of the time. She is embarrassed by her use and wanted to hide it. We, who are paying girls to date u,s are going to judge an addict for lying? Seriously? So dump her out and remove from her a stable & safe source of income. What is she going to do next?

Now if she gets clean, one way for her to move to a situation where she is away from the old triggers is an organization known as Oxford House. Started by former addicts in halfway house- when the state funds ran out. Instead of shutting down they figured out how to run the pace on their own. They built a model; and it has spread. One strict absolute rule. You use, you are out. It is a good model with some success, much better than 12-step alone, but no panacea. I have heard mixed things from girlsa off the street about Oxford House. Many sing its praises and agree it is the way to go.

An education on Oxford House:

[URL]http://www.oxfordhouse.org/userfiles/file/purpose_and_structure.php[/URL]

So the baby I wrote about has a mother, father, sister and brother. All are respectable high paying professionals. I am certain the behaviors demonstrated have been around for years and everyone is aware. But therein probably lies the key and trigger? Some expectation or pressure? Maybe just wild youth experiences and experimentation gone amuck? But until some underlying issues are resolved the addiction will continue or be repeated. No amount of my "tough love" is going to do anything to change that. For me to "tell her to get into rehab" is only useful if it makes me feel better and I can pat myself on the back for "having done something!"

I'm just sayin'.

Last summer I lost an ATF UTR girl. An (former) addict. She was clean and had been for years. She had a job, they loved her and she had a perfect attendance record. She had a daughter she lived for and had saved up enough to get her own place and things were looking bright for her future. Then one day her birthday came along and she decide to "celebrate. " One instance where her diligence slipped would be her last act. The addict is as normal looking as you or I, not all of them are criminals, thieves or robbers. It is easy to "classify" them, stigmatize them and push them away or blame them: but they all need our support and sympathy as they fight this terrible disease. Would you bash someone with lung cancer or give them empathy?

I'll get down off the soapbox now....[/QUOTE]I must not have communicated very well. I can't stress enough that it isn't about love at all. A deeper than normal caring because of her addiction and wanting to get better drew me in. But it is also normal for a daddy to take a baby traveling. It does convey a closer daddy / baby relationship than your normal weekly meet up girl. And we do both enjoy our time together. She is fun to be with and she has really gotten comfortable and also is finally trusting of me.

Agreed. I told her on more than one occasion that she will fall being in that situation. And it is my belief fall hard. She started texting me late last night then continued again early (6 am) in the morning doing her manipulation to keep me in the game.

Regarding all of the calls of get her to rehab. You mentioned it is not that simple. What is your take on it? My take from what I've learned in this short time is they have to want to quit. Then a good rehab place has to be found. I'm guessing most people think all rehabs are the same and it doesn't matter which on is used. I don't believe this. Just like any doctor or other professional. There are bad drug rehab clinics.

When you said the body can be rid of the drug in 30 days it made me think this is why she is so adamant knowledge of the process of ridding the body of heroin. Most rehabs are a joke? Then what is a person to do if that's the case? All good points. Are you implying you were caught in it at one time? So again if most rehabs are a joke then what's the answer for an addict?

Really profound stuff you wrote in the next two paragraphs including chiding me- But I have to laugh and cry about the reason a baby was dumped. That she lied? REALLY? All addicts lie, all of the time. She is embarrassed by her use and wanted to hide it. We, who are paying girls to date you, s are going to judge an addict for lying? Seriously? So dump her out and remove from her a stable & safe source of income. What is she going to do next?" I didn't take this the wrong way. It logically makes sense. You caused me to rethink my approach and mindset to the situation. Kind of selfish approach on my part, when at the same time I would like to help a person. Thanks for that. It was an eye opener Cephalapod.

In your last paragraph regarding your former ATF. So it appears she fell into addiction again and not dead? I just re-read your paragraph and understand that she lost her life. Great read and I’m sorry for your loss. Thanks for the time you put into it.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2755448]While I understand and support getting tested. Never a bad idea, the underlying currents bother me.

Yes! The sharing of needles by intravenous drug users is or was one of the primary modes of transmission of HIV. But today many states have needle exchange programs and the sharing of needles by hardcore, street level users has been eliminated.

The other thing is that the low income H user, if they don't have the funds to manage their habit, are going to head to the street. When a girl is desperate for her "meds" (Jonesing. Starting into withdrawal) she will do about anything. Which includes unsafe sex practices. Bareback sex. So a girl who is on the street and an opiate addict could be providing BBFS and as such represents a particukar risk. Well all choose how we manage risks.

But to assume just because a girl is using opiates that she has HIV or presents a risk is narrow-minded thinking. It sounds like you were essentially supporting her and she was high functioning. So no high risk behaviours.[/QUOTE]Regarding your last paragraph. Now this is where you are wrong. My assumptions are sound. I've only known her since August of 2014. She is 23 years old and has been using since right out of high school at 19 years old. The window of when I did not know her was much larger, so a higher percentage of risk of HIV and Hepatitis. I don't know if she was a higher risk candidate, but you also cannot say she was lower risk either. Sound judgement dictates a more conservative approach i.e. getting checked for those diseases.

Got to agree with Mike here. Sure, sterotypes suck, and making decisions and assumptions about individuals solely based on information about generalities on the macro scale are for the most part inappropriate.

That being said, sterotypes exist for a reason - which is because there is often a nugget of truth behind the sterotype. It also helps to provide information to our human brains more quickly.

While it may not be politically correct, I wouldn't fault anyone who assumed that an Asian person ate rice, the person wearing the head dress was a sihk, or expected that the Muslim woman they were going to meet for the first time was going to be wearing a jihab. Now if the Asian girl told me that she was adopted and was allergic to rice, if the person wearing the head dress told me it was a Halloween costume or the Muslim told me she did not subscribe to the part of that religion that mandates the wearing of a jihab, that would be a different story.

Likewise, as recommended by Mike in his post, I think sound judgement dictates caution in a circumstance where someone was engaged, or suspected to be engaged in high risk activity (like iv drug use or unprotected sex) especially when failing to account for the information provided by the sterotype/generality could have a serious permanent impact on ones physical health (I. E. Transmission of Hiv).

I know, its messed up, but if I was about to board a flight, and there were 50 males of middle eastern descent, who looked angry and were carrying korans, I might have second thoughts about boarding that plane.

Just my two cents.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2755849]Regarding your last paragraph. Now this is where you are wrong. My assumptions are sound. I've only known her since August of 2014. She is 23 years old and has been using since right out of high school at 19 years old. The window of when I did not know her was much larger, so a higher percentage of risk of HIV and Hepatitis. I don't know if she was a higher risk candidate, but you also cannot say she was lower risk either. Sound judgement dictates a more conservative approach i.e. getting checked for those diseases.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2755768]
Agreed. I told her on more than one occasion that she will fall being in that situation. And it is my belief fall hard. She started texting me late last night then continued again early (6 am) in the morning doing her manipulation to keep me in the game.
[/QUOTE]Yes, manipulation is one of the things that tends to go hand-in-hand with opiate addiction. Unless an addict is highly compensated and can afford their daily "meds" then they quickly learn how to manipulate people to get what they need.

The key point for you is to draw a line in the sand for yourself. A HARD line. You can be compassionate, caring and helpful to a point, but you can let the nature "White Knight"/ Savoir mentality help you operate in a way that she drags you down with her.

My Baby was playing that - "Oh rescue me" game in the beginning. Since I've "been there and done that" I quickly recognized the game and wasn't up for it! So in subsequent meetings we had a conversation about that. I drew a line in the sand for myself and let her know about it. Since then she quit calling me every time there was an "emergency. " Oh, she still plays that game, as a buddy sees her too and he runs out at the drop of a hat to give her a see-Note. But hey, to him it is worth it! Not me, not what I'm looking for AND now that I discovered what I discovered the "emergencies" make sense.

So figure out how you can help. But draw a line in the sand for yourself.

Hi fellas,

I have been on this site for several years was only doing BP, Avex sites. But for the past year I have been inspired by you guys to take the plunge, So far it has been great after dozen or more encounters on SA, here is my report. Hope to hear from you guys, any input or critique is appreciated.

First ever: really hot bodied college blk girl 21, saw her several times, each episode for an hour or less damage $$ +. Was excellent in the bed, Got bored and moved to others still have the contact info.

#2 : nice looking MILF turned out be a semi pro based on midlo one episode and following an offer to have a duo with her friend almost did it but backed out at the last minute due to the location, deleted the number.

#3 : nicely proportioned W 19 college girl, seen her once damage 3 no more.

#4 : Cutest and hottest latina ever 22 seen her twice for 3, still has the contact and trying to get back to being regular, think she might have moved on. Ok in the sack.

#5 : College student 18 W, tight and hot body, gothic type girl with no deodorant use stunk up to high heavens! So sad loved it with one time holding my breath, she stll want to meet but I am done. Like a robot in the sack.

#6 : 24 W beautiful girl once and cost me more than 4 for an hour meet, had to find some one else and I did ok in the sack.

#7 : 33 latina great in bed seen twice and still have cotact damage 3.

#8 : 20 Blk, great body too many piercings but small and tight package, seen once will see again near future. Damage 2.

#9 : 18 S asian college girl, very kinky and by far the most nympho type ever had, so responsive play with the top comes 2 or 3 times, avg body but amazing in the sack, seen he few times still have the contact will see her again damage 3.

#10:18 blk latina hot college girl great body great in bed seen once, don't know will see again damage 3.

#11:19 W MILF may be prego but greatest oral ever had! And very submissive is ready for anything, will see her again 3 damage.

#12:19 W the best of all body and face to die for told her she belongs in a magazine seen her once and seeing her soon, excellent in every way. This one is akeeper for long time to come. Damage 3+ worth every bit of it.

#13:20 blond tight body hot looks like a porn star with tats all over very taste full and piercings a little far to reach, has restrictions and asked me for more for oral or kissing and said it will be more next time, 3 for the one time seen and asking me for the second time assume will cost me more, may be not any more.

#14:19 college student Blk little off in the cranium seen once and never went back.

#15:23 chubby W least desirable of all seen once and done.

Several others in the pipe line from SA always in search of new talent. I don't like to stick with the same one more than couple of times I don't know about you guys! I think I may be missing some others.

Let me know what you guys think.

Good hunting.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2755768]
Regarding all of the calls of get her to rehab. You mentioned it is not that simple. What is your take on it? My take from what I've learned in this short time is they have to want to quit. Then a good rehab place has to be found. I'm guessing most people think all rehabs are the same and it doesn't matter which on is used. I don't believe this. Just like any doctor or other professional. There are bad drug rehab clinics.

When you said the body can be rid of the drug in 30 days it made me think this is why she is so adamant knowledge of the process of ridding the body of heroin. Most rehabs are a joke? Then what is a person to do if that's the case? All good points. Are you implying you were caught in it at one time? So again if most rehabs are a joke then what's the answer for an addict?
[/QUOTE]Yes, an addict has to want to recover and get better or they won't start the process or follow through. I think it is convenient and easy to blame those that are victimized by this sickness and dismiss them by saying they failed rehab because they didn't want it badly enough! I know I use to think like that - before I got clued in. WTF!

No I realize that no one really likes living with a monkey on their back? I know that before I got an education that I certainly would have bought in to the premise proffer by the 12-Step mentality: that failure meant they didn't try hard enough. The data suggests that the 12-step model and "abstinence only" philosophy is deeply flaw and has a failure rate of 90%. I'm not so naive as to think that only 10% of people who go to rehab are lacking in desire or fortitude? Perhaps it is the treatment method that is flawed?

So yeah, you probably won't have success treating opiate addiction if one drags an unwilling participate and plants them in a rehab place.

Now as far as rehab places go. You read the article. 90% failure rate on "abstinence only" and the confrontation approach. A bunch of addicts sitting around in a circle shouting at each other over who has bought in enough to the "method" doesn't work. These people need professional counseling to get their lives straightened out and, as the data shows, the non-professional approach isn't very good. Also a "good" rehab facility is one that allows the use of or encourages Suboxone. Get the cravings under control, allow the brain to heal, all while fixing the psychological problems that make the person vulnerable to addiction.

So my definition of a "joke" when it comes to rehab centers is:

They use solely a version of the 12-step program, a procedure that was not designed for opiate addiction and has a dismal success rate!

They forbid the use of Suboxone or other drugs that medical science has demonstrated to have high efficacy.

They subscribe to that method of "treatment" that is group sessions with no mental health professions, just addicts screaming at each other (the Synanon-style).

They do not track their rate of recidivism.

Unfortunately the stated "joke" criteria represents a majority of the facilities our tax dollars are waste on.

Now as to my personal experience. No, I am not and addict nor ever have been. But I have had a number of UTR girls that had been through that experience and were willing to share their experiences. My last UTR, a gorgeous Italian girl, was on Soboxone and doing well. But she had a BF who kept forcing drugs on her or wanting her to do them with him. (environmental factors, triggers) One day she showed up and snorted 3 bags of H off my night stand. THAT was the last time I dated her.

The UTR I mention in my prior post was clean, had been sober for 3+ years. I knew it because she could cite instantly the date of her sobriety when queried. But like they say, "Once a Marine, always a Marine" or once an "Alcoholic always and Alcoholic," the same is true for an addict. So yes this girl was clean! She had a job, she had a daughter she had lots to live for. But she died, when on her birthday, she did something human and made a mistake. The mistake of "trying some" dope and she OD'ed and it killed her.

Your last question is the crux of the issue! Why are we spending tax dollars on programs that have such a high failure rates. It is only acceptable because we as a society have taken to blaming the victim and are willing to write them off as "not trying hard enough" when the flawed treatment we offer them doesn't work. So yeah, what indeed are addicts suppose to do? Maybe with Obama care covering some level of mental health counseling, and IF one can find a Suboxone doctor, and one can change their environment to escape old "triggers," maybe, just maybe one might be able to cobble together for them self a treatment that actually works. Throwing you faith into a system with 90% failure is kind of bleak.

[QUOTE=HankMoody;2755642]The sharing of needles is indeed one of the primary modes of HIV transmission and also Hepatitis. And while you would think that all states would have a needle exchange program, many do not. Virginia, for instance, does not. This in fact does lead to the addicts sharing needles. Because of this, I think you need to rethink your narrow minded comment. The bottom line is that in many states, like Virginia, the addicts can have a difficult time finding clean needles.[/QUOTE]Sorry that you live in a state that does not allow for needle exchanges. Looks like VA is one of only 12 not offering exchanges (1). Too bad, do you think that is a result of that over all narrow political thinking that I think the HuffPost article demonstrates is flawed?

So yeah, if one lives in such a situation, that would be key information to know. Probably more important for mongers who are picking up SWers, CL girls and BP girls. But a high functioning Baby like the one I mentioned, isn't sharing her needle with anyone.

Always wise to stay safe and avoid risk. But how we perceive and manage risk is always a personal choice.

(1) "[I]Federal law forbids use of federal funds to support needle exchanges nonetheless, exchanges operate in 38 states. "[/I].

[URL]https://www.aclu.org/needle-exchange-programs-promote-public-safety[/URL]


I'll get off my soapbox - Prolly should get back to discussing SBs!

[QUOTE=S2568;2756939]
Several others in the pipe line from SA always in search of new talent. [b]I don't like to stick with the same one more than couple of times[/b] I don't know about you guys! I think I may be missing some others.

Let me know what you guys think.

Good hunting.[/QUOTE]I think that what you want isn't what a typical SB is looking for. The girls are looking for on-going arrangements with gents, not serial dating. Serial dating makes them feel cheap and used. Many are OK with the idea of building a SD / SB relationship as there are perks and other things that go into it that aren't available from a BP client. So for many the idea of one off dates is abhorrent. THAT they equate with prostitution. It is a fine line in their mind that allows them to justify the behavior.

So IMHO, what you are doing is OK, if you are up front with the girls and tell them "I don't like to stick with the same one more than couple of times" so that they can decide if they wish to play the game under your conditions.

[QUOTE=S2568;2756939]Hi fellas,

I have been on this site for several years was only doing BP, Avex sites. But for the past year I have been inspired by you guys to take the plunge, So far it has been great after dozen or more encounters on SA, here is my report. Hope to hear from you guys, any input or critique is appreciated.

Good hunting.[/QUOTE]Welcome to the Sugar Bowl. What area of the country do you Sugar? My thoughts are that you are paying more than you need to-the average seems to be $300. Unless you live in NYC, Boston, or Miami most contributors here seem to be successful in the $150 -200 range. As CPod said the ideal Sugar relationship is longer term and the SBs will take a lower allowance for a regular contributor.

OTOH, since you come from the Monger lifestyle, pump and dump is a strategy also, and if you like it and are obviously having success then keep on keeping on. Unless you travel to different markets or have a huge influx of new talent you will run through the P&D girls and might start having trouble finding new girls.

Welcome to the bowl brother. Glad to hear you're enjoying it.

Like you, I consider variety to be the spice of life. If I didn't, I'd be happy sitting at home with my SO.

FM, is correct, at least on this board, most brothers stay within a certain allowance range. That being said, allowance varies significantly from region to region. For example, allowance in NYC / DC are anywhere between 50 - 200 percent higher than their sister cities of Philly / Baltimore, which are only about an hour away. Regardless of local though, there are folks out there with ridiculous amounts of money, and so while you might be providing an allowance that is more than others, there is always someone out there who will be willing to pay more.

Like you, I tend to be a serial dater and ladies often do not last in my rotation for very long. In my humble opinion, I don't see anything wrong with that since like any relationship, if one doesn't like the other person enough to want to maintain contact, they shouldn't be feel obligated to see them regularly just because they met on a sugar site vs. Another means (e.g. tinder or backpage - although back in the day, I did have a regular or two from bp that I saw when they were in my town or when I was in theirs). Besides, its tough to know whether you want to see someone on a regular basis until you've sampled their skills, and its a tough sell to convince a pot to go to the FC if you tell her that if she doesn't live up to expectations that she will be kicked to the curb.

The main downside to this is that once many of these young ladies leave the bowl entirely if they go to the FC with one of us but never hear back because the skills behind closed doors wasn't worth the allowance that would be required for a long term sugar relationship.

While this is unfortunate for other brothers who may not have had a chance to sample the young lady's skills because she felt jilted by the fact that she felt like someone "hit it and split it," by no means does that make me feel badly for her. I always provide the allowance that I promise, and while they may feel badly that I never called them again, and other brothers may be upset they feel my actions caused a young pot to leave the bowl. I am unapologetic.

At the end of the day, the sugar bowl is what it is. I've had a few long term arrangements that have lasted over six months. A majority of my FC trips were one and done though, and yes, unless the baby was a utr, more often than not, the baby removed their profile or the profile has remained unchecked for months.

Long story short, congrats on your success in the bowl. Enjoy it for what its worth. After having played in it for what I would consider a decent amount of time, I have reached the conclusion that every sugar relationship is different and is tailored to the SB / SD.

Best of luck to you, and keep reporting back on your experiences, sucesses and most importantly, your failures, since it will help is all improve upon our own game.

[QUOTE=S2568;2756939]Hi fellas,

I havebeen on this site for several years was only doing BP, Avex sites. But for the past year I have been inspired by you guys to take the plunge, So far it has been great after dozen or more encounters on SA, here is my report. Hope to hear from you guys, any input or critique is appreciated.

First ever: really hot bodied college blk girl 21, saw her several times, each episode for an hour or less damage $$ +. Was excellent in the bed, Got bored and moved to others still have the contact info.

#2 : nice looking MILF turned out be a semi pro based on midlo one episode and following an offer to have a duo with her friend almost did it but backed out at the last minute due to the location, deleted the number.

#3 : nicely proportioned W 19 college girl, seen her once damage 3 no more.

#4 : Cutest and hottest latina ever 22 seen her twice for 3, still has the contact and trying to get back to being regular, think she might have moved on. Ok in the sack.

#5 : College student 18 W, tight and hot body, gothic type girl with no deodorant use stunk up to high heavens! So sad loved it with one time holding my breath, she stll want to meet but I am done. Like a robot in the sack.

#6 : 24 W beautiful girl once and cost me more than 4 for an hour meet, had to find some one else and I did ok in the sack.

#7 : 33 latina great in bed seen twice and still have cotact damage 3.

#8 : 20 Blk, great body too many piercings but small and tight package, seen once will see again near future. Damage 2.

#9 : 18 S asian college girl, very kinky and by far the most nympho type ever had, so responsive play with the top comes 2 or 3 times, avg body but amazing in the sack, seen he few times still have the contact will see her again damage 3.

#10:18 blk latina hot college girl great body great in bed seen once, don't know will see again damage 3.

#11:19 W MILF may be prego but greatest oral ever had! And very submissive is ready for anything, will see her again 3 damage.

#12:19 W the best of all body and face to die for told her she belongs in a magazine seen her once and seeing her soon, excellent in every way. This one is akeeper for long time to come. Damage 3+ worth every bit of it.

#13:20 blond tight body hot looks like a porn star with tats all over very taste full and piercings a little far to reach, has restrictions and asked me for more for oral or kissing and said it will be more next time, 3 for the one time seen and asking me for the second time assume will cost me more, may be not any more.

#14:19 college student Blk little off in the cranium seen once and never went back.

#15:23 chubby W least desirable of all seen once and done.

Several others in the pipe line from SA always in search of new talent. I don't like to stick with the same one more than couple of times I don't know about you guys! I think I may be missing some others.

Let me know what you guys think.

Good hunting.[/QUOTE]

Friday: M&G coffee with young 20's college grad. Good chemistry.

Weekend: browse and contact SA girls, arrange dates for the week.

Monday: call off Monday morning meeting due to work obligations. After work, meet POT for late drink M&G with late 20's short curvy girl, huge rack. Totally hit it off. Awesome personality, pretty, funny. Excellent make out session in parking lot. Should have retired here, but grass is always greener.

Tuesday: evening date with young 20's girl at her place. Get to see her without coat on. Huge rack, curvier than I expected for her age, but I like a little meat. Some kissing and make out activity but no FC. Claims it is that time but pretty sure it is because arrangement hasn't been discussed yet. (I did bring wine and dinner. *) Bizarre closed mouth kissing at first (though she eventually opened up). Definite interest. Later in the week, emailed her a lowball monthly allowance offer. Just got an email that she accepted it. I should have gone lower! But I guess since she can host I will just increase frequency of visits. If I see her once a week I'll end up in HWG territory. Certainly worth one month allowance to take her for a test drive. Esp if she can host.

Wednesday: afternoon coffee with young mid20's BBW sex therapist and sexpot. Read her blog and stuff in advance, knew she would be kinky, and she lined up with all of my faves. Not entirely my cup of tea (has a partially shaved head on one side, and a little too millennial for my tastes), but she invited me back to her place so why not. Extensive oral and manual play. She told me today that I literally broke her. Might play again if opportunity arises, but longer drive than I would like.

Wednesday night. Flaked on by older mature divorced cougar. Suspected that she would do so, and only pissed because I would have preferred to stay home myself and flake on her!

Thursday: book business trip to Boston, line up one of my three regulars (who will bring a friend) and explore potential alternatives.

Friday: meet with well-reviewed mature fit sexpot at her place. Disappointment. Sex is too rough (not in a good way) and her dirty talk was too forced. Waste of the gift (and a nice bottle of Barolo*) but at least she lived close by.

Week in review: two cups of coffee, one drink, one dinner, and one 300 gift yields two FC trips, two good POTs, and one really great upcoming business trip. Sorry about the lack of work, boss.

*for the Tuesday night girl, bought a bottle of red (really nice Barolo) and bottle of white (much more reasonable sav blanc). Tuesday girl is allergic to red wine. So I actually took it back with me, Costanza style, and brought to Friday woman, who will likely appreciate it. Good wine is truly wasted on the young.

Your wine comment hit me! I brought along a top shelf tequila to my 1st fc meet with one of my babies, a 25 yo beauty. Just happened to be in the trunk from a business trip to Mexico. I about had a heart attack when she poured it into a diet coke! I didn't say anything, but she knew she f'd up! She tried it straight per my suggestion (as I prefer everything), and surprised herself how smooth it was. Applying a countermeasure, putting a lower shelf bottle in the trunk for next time.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2758569]Friday: M&G coffee with young 20's college grad. Good chemistry.

Weekend: browse and contact SA girls, arrange dates for the week.

Monday: call off Monday morning meeting due to work obligations. After work, meet POT for late drink M&G with late 20's short curvy girl, huge rack. Totally hit it off. Awesome personality, pretty, funny. Excellent make out session in parking lot. Should have retired here, but grass is always greener.

Tuesday: evening date with young 20's girl at her place. Get to see her without coat on. Huge rack, curvier than I expected for her age, but I like a little meat. Some kissing and make out activity but no FC. Claims it is that time but pretty sure it is because arrangement hasn't been discussed yet. (I did bring wine and dinner. *) Bizarre closed mouth kissing at first (though she eventually opened up). Definite interest. Later in the week, emailed her a lowball monthly allowance offer. Just got an email that she accepted it. I should have gone lower! But I guess since she can host I will just increase frequency of visits. If I see her once a week I'll end up in HWG territory. Certainly worth one month allowance to take her for a test drive. Esp if she can host.

Wednesday: afternoon coffee with young mid20's BBW sex therapist and sexpot. Read her blog and stuff in advance, knew she would be kinky, and she lined up with all of my faves. Not entirely my cup of tea (has a partially shaved head on one side, and a little too millennial for my tastes), but she invited me back to her place so why not. Extensive oral and manual play. She told me today that I literally broke her. Might play again if opportunity arises, but longer drive than I would like.

Wednesday night. Flaked on by older mature divorced cougar. Suspected that she would do so, and only pissed because I would have preferred to stay home myself and flake on her!

Thursday: book business trip to Boston, line up one of my three regulars (who will bring a friend) and explore potential alternatives.

Friday: meet with well-reviewed mature fit sexpot at her place. Disappointment. Sex is too rough (not in a good way) and her dirty talk was too forced. Waste of the gift (and a nice bottle of Barolo*) but at least she lived close by.

Week in review: two cups of coffee, one drink, one dinner, and one 300 gift yields two FC trips, two good POTs, and one really great upcoming business trip. Sorry about the lack of work, boss.

*for the Tuesday night girl, bought a bottle of red (really nice Barolo) and bottle of white (much more reasonable sav blanc). Tuesday girl is allergic to red wine. So I actually took it back with me, Costanza style, and brought to Friday woman, who will likely appreciate it. Good wine is truly wasted on the young.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2757732]I think that what you want isn't what a typical SB is looking for. The girls are looking for on-going arrangements with gents, not serial dating. Serial dating makes them feel cheap and used. Many are OK with the idea of building a SD / SB relationship as there are perks and other things that go into it that aren't available from a BP client. So for many the idea of one off dates is abhorrent. THAT they equate with prostitution. It is a fine line in their mind that allows them to justify the behavior.

So IMHO, what you are doing is OK, if you are up front with the girls and tell them "I don't like to stick with the same one more than couple of times" so that they can decide if they wish to play the game under your conditions.[/QUOTE]I've been seeing a 21 year old SB for about six months. She is graduating this semester and plans to work overseas. So I know there will be an end to our relationship. I see her every other week. On the off weeks I rotate between two UTRs from the mongering side of the house. Once the 21 year old leaves I will renew my SA subscription or try to hook up with some prior SBs. Seems to work for me.

Thank you all for your kind words, my selection has been so far current college students decent to excellent type so I assumed they are not going to be cheaper. I do think you guys are correct if I did stick to a regular that will bring my costs down. I get excited of the prospects of some one new makes me move on to the next one. The one I have and seeing her today might be the one for long term, she is hot as hell! I have had few of them asking me for 500 per meet told me I am not in there budget, just to be open I amnot bad looking or fat, very easy on the eyes. When they start at that level how do you deal with that. I have had one asked me 1250!! Not kidding.

Now I have come across a couple of SA finds, used to be separate now in the same listing, seen them together and separate several times and even got them gifts beyond compensation, but never got to the base more than kissing, they are milking guys. I am sureyou will find them easily, don"t waste your time on them.

I am based right here in Richmond and occasionally go to NOVA. Also I would love to share info about the ones I have had experience with if you do the same. I have not had any luck with Asians and middle eastern girls for some reason. Any pointers. Now I do take pictures some times for my keep sake, what are your thoughts, let me know. PM if some thing to share.

Happy hunting.