"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Had a meet with my SB th either day. Great sex. Then some cuddle and a nap!. Great afternoon. And my CTF is down to like $1200 now. LOL. Suppose to do an overnight this weekend. My SO is out of town. So my CTF will be even better!.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2744349]We had met briefly at a restaurant and she caught my eye. Saw her on FB but she moved back home to Texas for awhile then returned about 4 mths ago. And I connected with her at that time. and your right about high end escort dollars.. but form getting to know her and watching her FB for awhile she has not dated a lot.. single mom.. child.. was going to school ..work etc.. not saying she is an angel..lol.. but the attraction here is I am not up her ass all the time like guys her age would be.. she does not have time for that so we have fun and communicate but its casual and enjoyable..but still a connection..

As as I have mentioned.. I am definitely looking for a long term newbie so willing to make an investment for a long term return![/QUOTE]

Anyone set up an account under their alias and then book under Air bnb?. Glancing through the site I see where a cc is charged but one could use a VANILLA CC I am guessing. And they just send you a code for the door lock so you never have to meet the host. Any thoughts?

[URL]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/deadline-miami/article53995175.html[/URL]

Glad she was not at my place.

Wondering if she tried to get the cops to give her money for urinating on them and punching them. Some of these pots are like backpage girls and try to upsell everything. Based on some of my conversations with these girls, some of you brothers are willing to pay top dollar for watersport play and rough bdsm.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2752597][URL]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/deadline-miami/article53995175.html[/URL]

Glad she was not at my place.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2748851]So the other day I'm in the FC with my SB. We finished round one and were cuddling, talking and playing, waiting for time for round 2. She gets up and heads to the can and grabs her purse along the way. Now she's in there a LONG time so I jokingly ask her if she had fallen in. Got the "I'll be out in a minute" reply. Some more time goes by.

Then I remembered what dudes told me about what was going on with the BP girls when they were in the can that long. In fact, had a couple of other girls tell me if a girl is in the can for more than 5-minutes, it ain't good.

So I creep over to the door and very quietly open it a crack. I can see the sink and the water is running but she isn't standing at the sink. Open the door a bit more and see her crouched on the floor with her back to me. I peer over her shoulder and can see a syringe in her one hand aimed at her other hand. I quietly backed out.

Man I was shocked, who would have thought this of a girl like that? Later, in the after glow of Rnd 2 I asked her is she was diabetic? (no) Asked if she liked to party and got the standard 'weed' reply. Asked about hard drugs and that was denied. Maybe an innocent reason, maybe not?

Anybody else run into this?[/QUOTE]Man, your post is prophetic. Yes I ran into this. On Sunday night I cut loose my ATF, because I was able to pretty much confirm that she is a Heroin and Meth user. I just wish I was more nosey and did what you did by going into the bathroom so I had first hand proof. Just Saturday night she got up from bed and spent about 20 minutes in the bathroom. I got up and went to the doorway but did not open it. I'm kicking myself for not doing so. While she was sleeping I wanted to take her purse into the other room and go through it to see if I could find Heroin or Meth and the paraphernalia.

I was clued into her use back in November by her friend's mother of all people. Her mother got ahold of her friend's phone and saw my number and called it. She wanted to know who I was and all that. She went on to ask me if I knew that my girl has a Heroin problem and has been to rehab. I told her no and that was the first I knew she was using. After hanging up I text my girl about it, and she denied it by accusing the mother of being an alcoholic. After some days she finally admitted it and told me how she used so much that she ran out of veins to use. She showed me all the scars on her hands, wrists, and feet. She lied to me about her working at a job, when the last time she worked was in September of 2015 when she was fired for calling off work too much. So all those times when she said she couldn't see me that she had to work the next day was a lie. Just this past Sunday morning I asked if she had to work and she said yes at 12 noon. That was a lie. And in the past when she didn't answer my texts she said while at work she can't. Well that was a lie because she doesn't have a job right now. Just so many lies and I was being too naive.

You know the comment you made about others saying that if a girl is in the bathroom longer than 5 minutes then it's probably not good. I won't get the opportunity to bust her red handed by walking in on her, since I cut her loose. It did force me to do a lot of reading up on the Heroin and Meth addictions. I couldn't believe how many symptoms she had. The people I talked to about it who I knew had more knowledge than I all used the term "it's the devil" in referring to Heroin. It so consumes the user's mind that all they can think of is when they are going to do their next hit after the initial euphoria sets in after an injection. They become really good at manipulating people if it can aid them into buying more of it.

Kind of sad in another way, because she turned into my ATF. We started to settle into a nice relationship (daddy style of course) where her trust grew in me, and mine in hers naively (as I found out later). The trip to Vegas solidified our connection. I loved the way while at sleep she gets up close and cuddling under me practically. She could get any closer. That was nice. We arrived back in town on the 2nd, and by the 10th came to learn of some lies. The biggest one other than her using was her lying about her employment to me. That pretty much was the straw that broke the camel's back. One caveat when I was taking her home in the late morning, because she had to be at work by 12 noon, when actually it was to get her next fix we were small talking, and with her trusting me more and loosening up she made the comment without thinking that sometimes her and her girlfriend will stay up two to three days in a row without sleeping. I instinctively looked at her and said "what drug helps you do that? And her reply was "nothing". It caught me off guard for me to reply in a negative way. When I mentioned it to a good friend of mine he immediately said "that is meth". Admittingly I am nave to Heroin and Meth. Other drugs not so much. I told her early on in our relationship that I can handle pretty much anything, but I cannot tolerate someone lying to me. I made that known on more than one occasion. After pretty much laying out my reasons I terminated her, or as Trump would say "You're fired". It will be her loss, because I moved her from a per meeting arrangement to covering all her monthly expenses, and was ready to wipe out her debt, and buy her a car. It would have allowed her to either quit her job or work part time if she wanted to, and concentrate on school only. And she knew this. Either she has some regret, or she's thinking about her next hit or injection. Sad all the way around. But to look at her no one without seeing the scars would say she was an addict. Specifically I mean when looking at her face. She doesn’t ever look strung out.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2749196]OK, so where is the line between a SB and an escort? Does the plain fact of drugs disqualify her as a SB?

She is in school working on a MA. But doubt the escorting part. On several occasions have offered to introduce her to several of my reliable friends, which would expand her pool / income in a safe way, but that has always been turned down. Now I know ain't paying her enough to support a habit.

But yes, the HIV risk that an addict brings to the table is across the line of safety for me. Always ascertain that risk with BP girls and have dropped many before play started when that was obviously the case. Started in the bowl since most all SWers and many BP girls are addicts. An addict will do anything for a next fix and that just isn't safe.

But who thought they'd run into drugs on this level with this quality of a girl?[/QUOTE]My girl is high functioning and bright, but not studying for an MA like your girl. Mine is just starting a nursing degree.

After reading this last night of what you and Fred wrote I made an appointment with my doctor today to check for HIV, Hepatitis, and STD's because I didn't use condoms. Fred you are correct that she cannot do it herself or anyone else for that matter. She needs to go to rehab. Having said that I come to find out my girl was busted in 2013 for possession and possessing the paraphernalia. One a 1st degree misdemeanor and the 2nd a 2nd degree misdemeanor, both happened same night. I was working on getting it expunged, so when she applies for her license someday she will get it.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2749196]OK, so where is the line between a SB and an escort? Does the plain fact of drugs disqualify her as a SB?

She is in school working on a MA. But doubt the escorting part. On several occasions have offered to introduce her to several of my reliable friends, which would expand her pool / income in a safe way, but that has always been turned down. Now I know ain't paying her enough to support a habit.

But yes, the HIV risk that an addict brings to the table is across the line of safety for me. Always ascertain that risk with BP girls and have dropped many before play started when that was obviously the case. Started in the bowl since most all SWers and many BP girls are addicts. An addict will do anything for a next fix and that just isn't safe.

But who thought they'd run into drugs on this level with this quality of a girl?[/QUOTE]"SWers and many BP girls are addicts" What is "SWers"?

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2749938]

Run far, run fast.[/QUOTE]Two people I know that are in the know about Heroin and Meth said the same to me. Don't think you can get them off it. They will rob, cheat, steal, and escort to feed their habit. It took my one good friend to finally slap my face (not literally) to wake me up. That I was being naive.

[QUOTE=HankMoody;2749959]Unfortunately, I have seen this first hand. Needle use, and spending ALOT of time in the bathroom are sure tell signs of heroin use. She should also have scabs, open soars, track marks, but they are good at trying to hide these. They cannot quit this addiction by themselves. They either need to be arrested (forced rehab) or go to a rehab facility (very expensive, most cannot afford). You need to worry about HIV and Hepatitis when having unprotected sex with a needle user. Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]


Yeah mine went to forced rehab or go to jail for possession back in 2013. She relapsed and two family members intervened and took her to another facility located in Vegas in February of 2015. And listen to this. Now this is in my girl’s words. She said her friend picked her up at the airport after spending 45 days in rehab and when my girl got in the car her girl friend had Heroin there and ready to be injected. My girl said to me “what was I going to do?”. I said you say no. So they went to a gas station parking lot, injected themselves and passed out in the car while it was running, and they didn’t know how long they were out. Now I said that was in my girl’s words. It also could have been that my girl called her friend and told her to have it ready for when she got off the plane. You see you can’t really trust their word when they are that deep in it. But how stupid of my girl. She was forced to rehab by the court, and if a policeman pulled up at that gas station and found they had Heroin in the car, then my girl would have been in court all over again.

Mind you I knew nothing of Heroin use until the end of November.

nm nm nm nm

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2750505]Heroin is becoming an epidemic. First, these young people get addicted to painkiller pills like Vicodin and OxyContin. These opiates can be pretty pricey at sometimes $100/ pill on the street, so they end up switching to heroin which gives the same euphoria because it is also derived from the poppy. A similar dose of heroin is only about $10 or less. The problem lies that heroin is a street drug, so the user does not know whether it will be strong or weak or be laced with something else. There is no way of knowing until it has been injected. It wouldn't surprise me if there are some SB's using heroin. This drug is no longer just for ghetto junkies; it is taking over the suburbs and rural areas.

I was getting a lap dance from a stripper once, and she literally fell asleep on me in the middle of the lap dance. Sure enough I saw scabs all over her arms. One of the symptoms is that users are drowsy and nod off easily.

Cephlapod, if you are able to confirm that your SB is injecting heroin, try to get this SB help. It is only a matter of time before she ends up killing herself. I had a friend kill herself a little over two years ago, and it haunts me every day that I was not able to do anything to save her. She was raped at a party and subsequently started taking pain pills to deal with the trauma. She pawned almost all of her possessions to get more pills and even started stealing valuables from friends and family to finance the habit. Eventually she switched to heroin and ended up overdosing.[/QUOTE]Yeah my girl would nod off. Sometimes out of just no where in the middle of a conversation. I was so dumb to Heroin at the time I had no idea it was that. She would always say she was tired from work. It was believable to me, so I didn't give it any thought.

SugardaddyX you mentioned to Cephlapod about trying to help. I am also thinking about having regret if she dies. She just recently as of November moved out of her friend's mother's house and into a house with three other young women and a young guy. The others are users including Meth. My girl is high functioning and bright and wants to become a nurse to follow her mother who is a Director of Nursing at a large facility in Florida. She has tried to quit as recently as December. She has practically begged me to give her a pee test so she can prove to me she is clean, but I tell her that she cannot live in a house where Heroin was present. She will relapse. Now she might have after I just cut her loose. If you have any information I could use I would like to know, because everything I've read is that a high percentage of the time a heroin user cannot quit on her or his own, but needs a skilled rehab facility. My girl has been to rehab and again when she relapsed. I see someone who is getting pretty deep in a whole and might never come out. So I would like to know if there is another way. If not then she's on her own.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2750631]I know someone else commented on this but I am seeing more Pros on SA than ever before. Is anyone else experiencing this? I like SA because of the appeal of.

Not meeting a pro. I guess I'll keep looking but I do amit some of these pros look good LOL.[/QUOTE]Yes I've experienced it just last night in a meet.

SWers = street walkers. An acronym for a lady that you can pick up on the side of the road. It was how the oldest profession used to operate before the internet.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2754433]"SWers and many BP girls are addicts" What is "SWers"?[/QUOTE]

Mike7704 - Man I feel your pain and you wrote a lot, so a long reply.

From what you wrote it sounds like you feel more for this girl than the typical Sb used for fun. Trips, overnights and snuggling surely took their toll. While one of the rules is 'never fall in love with a working girl', I'm not judging you on that. It happens. Shoot been there done that. Sometimes you can't help it!

Now as far as her situation goes. Dude! If she moves in with 3-4 other drug users she is on the slippery slope to destruction. Way TOO many peer presures to degrade to the lowest common denominator! When the money runs out and the Jonesing starts, there is only one solution. The streets and whatever greaseball dude rolls up. Not your job to fix that but if one can help her avoid that situation, that's a first step.

I hear all of the calls for "getting her in rehab" and just sigh. I would have been one of those, until I read up on Heroin use and rehab. Send 'them to rehab, lock 'them up or just get them away from me! Out of sight out of mind. Then I would have thought, "they did this to them self, its' their fault, they need to do a fix them self. I was ignorant (lacked knowledge). Life is never that simple.

There are MANY people who are sick of being on drugs that go to rehab, come out and relapse and die. The problem is that most rehab is a joke. While the body might be rid of the drugs in 30-days the brain has NOT recovered from the changes caused by long-term H use. THAT might take 6-months or more. Then there are societal and cultural pressures that need to be addressed or relapse occurs. It isn't an easy process and not as easy as going to rehab or taking a pill (like you might do with another disease). But still I seem to think it was that easy.

So to run someone through a 30-day program and pronounce them "cured" is a joke. Second, MOST ALL rehab programs follow the 12-step model. While this might work for a few, it is largely ineffective and has a very high failure rate ( 90% Oh, sure, as a non-addict it is easy to sit back and agree with the philosophy that "if you really want to change, you can change. " This is a chemical alteration of the brain, that needs time to heal and no amount of personal will power can over come those changes. Also, 12-step philosophy forbids anyone from using any sort of drugs to address their addiction. A patient can get kicked out of the 12-step community for doing so. Now that is sad, since there are drugs like methadone, Subutex and Suboxone that ARE effective for treating opiate addiction. In fact, Suboxone acts in the body such that IF a patient takes opiates they get no high from them. But use those and the 12-step people shun you and any support network established is gone. They see it as substituting one drug for another. It isn't that simple. We need compassion and like my case, needed to get my head out of our right-winged azz! Pulling one's self up by their own boot straps isn't the answer to drug addiction! Final problem with opiate addiction is that more times than not the behavior (drug use) started because of some psychological issue. With out treating that and resolving it the triggers remain. Simply push the "cleaned-up" patient back into environments that helped them start drug use, is doomed to fail. So you run a person through a 30-day program, pronounce them "cured" and toss them right back into the same environment that spurred the drug use in the first place. Brilliant!

I thought I was fairly "in the know" on drug use and rehab. Boy was I wrong!? An open mind and and a read of this article sure demonstrated that! So I'll suggest it here for anyone who wishes to cure ignorance. Yeah, I know it is L-O-and-G, but a good education is never easy! It is eye-opening!

[URL]http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/dying-to-be-free-heroin-treatment[/URL]

But I have to laugh and cry about the reason a baby was dumped. That she lied? REALLY? All addicts lie, all of the time. She is embarrassed by her use and wanted to hide it. We, who are paying girls to date u,s are going to judge an addict for lying? Seriously? So dump her out and remove from her a stable & safe source of income. What is she going to do next?

Now if she gets clean, one way for her to move to a situation where she is away from the old triggers is an organization known as Oxford House. Started by former addicts in halfway house- when the state funds ran out. Instead of shutting down they figured out how to run the pace on their own. They built a model; and it has spread. One strict absolute rule. You use, you are out. It is a good model with some success, much better than 12-step alone, but no panacea. I have heard mixed things from girlsa off the street about Oxford House. Many sing its praises and agree it is the way to go.

An education on Oxford House:

[URL]http://www.oxfordhouse.org/userfiles/file/purpose_and_structure.php[/URL]

So the baby I wrote about has a mother, father, sister and brother. All are respectable high paying professionals. I am certain the behaviors demonstrated have been around for years and everyone is aware. But therein probably lies the key and trigger? Some expectation or pressure? Maybe just wild youth experiences and experimentation gone amuck? But until some underlying issues are resolved the addiction will continue or be repeated. No amount of my "tough love" is going to do anything to change that. For me to "tell her to get into rehab" is only useful if it makes me feel better and I can pat myself on the back for "having done something!"

I'm just sayin'.

Last summer I lost an ATF UTR girl. An (former) addict. She was clean and had been for years. She had a job, they loved her and she had a perfect attendance record. She had a daughter she lived for and had saved up enough to get her own place and things were looking bright for her future. Then one day her birthday came along and she decide to "celebrate. " One instance where her diligence slipped would be her last act. The addict is as normal looking as you or I, not all of them are criminals, thieves or robbers. It is easy to "classify" them, stigmatize them and push them away or blame them: but they all need our support and sympathy as they fight this terrible disease. Would you bash someone with lung cancer or give them empathy?

I'll get down off the soapbox now....

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2754432]
After reading this last night of what you and Fred wrote I made an appointment with my doctor today to check for HIV, Hepatitis, and STD's because I didn't use condoms. Fred you are correct that she cannot do it herself or anyone else for that matter. She needs to go to rehab. Having said that I come to find out my girl was busted in 2013 for possession and possessing the paraphernalia. One a 1st degree misdemeanor and the 2nd a 2nd degree misdemeanor, both happened same night. I was working on getting it expunged, so when she applies for her license someday she will get it.[/QUOTE]While I understand and support getting tested. Never a bad idea, the underlying currents bother me.

Yes! The sharing of needles by intravenous drug users is or was one of the primary modes of transmission of HIV. But today many states have needle exchange programs and the sharing of needles by hardcore, street level users has been eliminated.

The other thing is that the low income H user, if they don't have the funds to manage their habit, are going to head to the street. When a girl is desperate for her "meds" (Jonesing. Starting into withdrawal) she will do about anything. Which includes unsafe sex practices. Bareback sex. So a girl who is on the street and an opiate addict could be providing BBFS and as such represents a particukar risk. Well all choose how we manage risks.

But to assume just because a girl is using opiates that she has HIV or presents a risk is narrow-minded thinking. It sounds like you were essentially supporting her and she was high functioning. So no high risk behaviours.