Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[QUOTE=ToddCincy;4160086] The metaphor of McDonald's vs the Precinct keeps coming up. You will notice that no one tries to make those two radically different business models coexist in the same restaurant. It may ultimately be the same case here.[/QUOTE]I too have heard the McDonald's vs Precinct argument. Some would even go so far as to say, "As long as I get off, it doesn't matter what she looks like. Cum is cum. ". Using the fast food analogy, I guess those guys are saying you can get as full and crap it out later on a $10 meal at Mickey D's, than you can get spending $100 at The Precinct. What they fail to consider is that it's not about getting full. For some of us, it's about the whole dining experience; from the appetizer, to the entree, to the wine selection, to dessert, to using real silverware and not just a plastic spork. The orgasm is not the point; the whole experience is the point.

For that, you need more than just a willing and available hole in which to stick in your wicket. For that you need an enthusiastic (or one who can fake enthusiasm well) and attractive participant in the fantasy process.

You raise some very good points. I don't think that we can improve the level of quality here, but I do think that the different types of mongers can coexist. I primarily use this site for the following:

1) Stay current on what is going on in the hobby.

2) Read reviews and information on SBs. I have a current SB, but I also like to see what is out there and available.

3) Read reviews of escorts (traveling, EE's, etc), who might meet my standards.

I think that we can all agree that we all have different standards, budgets, likes, wants and needs. Some guys are happy to stick their dicks in any wet hole and have a summer teeth provider give them a gummy. Others are happy to pay for a fantasy date. I just happen to fall under the latter. Quality talent is available, we just have to dig deep to find it.

Buddha. I go back to 2003 with him. He did have some low budget talent available, but there were some gems in the old days. One in particular went on to become a very high priced traveling girl. I won't mention her name, but she had one of the finest asses in the business.

[QUOTE=ToddCincy;4160086]You may ultimately be right about the difficulty of herding the cats. But when a tranny posts (I remember it happened a few years ago) he / she was gone within hours. So it can be done. I think the issue is more one of collective will than feasibility.

Like you said, a sizable percentage of the men here seem to prefer Jenny Crack and Jenny Craig. (Or at least they're wiling to settle for them.) The ultimate answer may be that this has become a low-end venue, and there's nothing that can be done about it.

At the end of the day, online communities (just like real ones) do seem to naturally trend toward specialization. There's probably a reason why girls like Bianca Carlisle don't post here, or on the USA classified site. (I would imagine that the problem *isn't* that they don't know it's here.).

They sense, rather, that this isn't their market. Over the years, this has become a venue for cheap, low-end streetscorts and the guys who prefer them. No one specifically planned it that way, but it happened.

Do any of you remember Buddah? I dealt with him back in 2004, pre-USAG days. Back then, his girls weren't necessarily stunners, but they were solidly in the middling category.

Then he came here, and almost immediately he started hiring obese women and addicts. Like, almost overnight. I asked him about it. He basically said (I'm paraphrasing) "You can only get so much when the guys are only willing to pay $80. ".

I think the larger question, for those of us who aren't happy with the quality here, is: Is there any way to improve it? Or is it simply impossible for the two markets to coexist in the same forum / venue?

The metaphor of McDonald's vs the Precinct keeps coming up. You will notice that no one tries to make those two radically different business models coexist in the same restaurant. It may ultimately be the same case here.[/QUOTE]

I'm completely in agreement that everyone has different tastes and it's not something any of us should be judging each other on. Ultimately, we are all taking enormous risks in this hobby and whatever assistance we can lend each other is hugely beneficial. With that said, I also think some of the reviews of the "lesser attractive" ladies in the forum are absolutely insane.

I recently read a glowing review of a particular provider that sounded great. It was very well written, provided the right amount of details, and raved about how service oriented and attractive this provider was. I figured I'd give it a go. I set the date, met at her incall, walked in and HOLY FUCK. This lady was old enough to be my mom and I'm 40. Not only was she NOT attractive in the least, she was downright ugly. Fat gut, saggy tits, and obvious dental issues. I literally felt like throwing up. Now here in lies the problem. I don't like to hurt a lady's feelings so instead of just turning around and leaving, I gave her half the money and told her something came up and I had to leave. I didn't have the heart to tell her what I really thought.

Again, I get the differences in preference but how can a review be so far off base from reality? And his review wasn't the only one I read that talked this lady up. I feel like they should have said "Great time if you have a drugged out granma fetish" or "Head game is fire as long as you don't get scraped by the broken teeth". Something like that. Live and learn I guess.

Anyway, I think we need another sub-forum here for the higher end and traveling ladies. My preference is hot girls. I feel like my SO is an 8 so my dates have to be at least as attractive but preferably hotter. Again, to each their own. I'm not trying to dog anyone's taste around here. Just think we need to have a better place to research and review the top end of what's out there. Good Day!!

[QUOTE=DNut;4160674]I too have heard the McDonald's vs Precinct argument. Some would even go so far as to say, "As long as I get off, it doesn't matter what she looks like. Cum is cum. ". Using the fast food analogy, I guess those guys are saying you can get as full and crap it out later on a $10 meal at Mickey D's, than you can get spending $100 at The Precinct. What they fail to consider is that it's not about getting full. For some of us, it's about the whole dining experience; from the appetizer, to the entree, to the wine selection, to dessert, to using real silverware and not just a plastic spork. The orgasm is not the point; the whole experience is the point.

For that, you need more than just a willing and available hole in which to stick in your wicket. For that you need an enthusiastic (or one who can fake enthusiasm well) and attractive participant in the fantasy process.[/QUOTE]FOR YOU. The whole experience is the point. The fantasy that some young attractive woman whom is normally well beyond your means wants to worship the ground you walk on, you sexual beast, you!

That's not what everyone's wanting out of it. I'm sure there are some cheap, maybe fixed income folks on here. Personally, I don't do fantasy. Even if I am as attractive, or better than the girl I'm doing something with, that doesn't mean that that girl would fuck me legitimately. I have no misgivings. Said girl is doing this because I have dollars, therefore all I want is to use that body to cum. I don't care about any fake bullshit. I don't need to pretend that I'm on a porno set, or that this girl actually likes or loves me. Also, because she's a convenience, not an upgrade, it's worth less to me.

Also, no one can do anything about who posts ads, and I'm sure 'high end' girls are not avoiding USAA because cheap. AFAIK, doesn't cost anything, and I'm sure if you say 250+/ hr, no one that only wants 80/ hr is going to try to get you to do 80.

There is now thread for the folks that are like the latter you mentioned.

[QUOTE=Willow1535;4160902]You raise some very good points. I don't think that we can improve the level of quality here, but I do think that the different types of mongers can coexist. I primarily use this site for the following:

1) Stay current on what is going on in the hobby.

2) Read reviews and information on SBs. I have a current SB, but I also like to see what is out there and available.

3) Read reviews of escorts (traveling, EE's, etc), who might meet my standards.

I think that we can all agree that we all have different standards, budgets, likes, wants and needs. Some guys are happy to stick their dicks in any wet hole and have a summer teeth provider give them a gummy. Others are happy to pay for a fantasy date. I just happen to fall under the latter. Quality talent is available, we just have to dig deep to find it.

Buddha. I go back to 2003 with him. He did have some low budget talent available, but there were some gems in the old days. One in particular went on to become a very high priced traveling girl. I won't mention her name, but she had one of the finest asses in the business.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HobbyNewbie197;4161884]

Anyway, I think we need another sub-forum here for the higher end and traveling ladies. My preference is hot girls. I feel like my SO is an 8 so my dates have to be at least as attractive but preferably hotter. Again, to each their own. I'm not trying to dog anyone's taste around here. Just think we need to have a better place to research and review the top end of what's out there. Good Day!![/QUOTE]If I'm not mistaken the original threads were devised that way; being USA reviews were just for that, escort reviews were for other higher end girls, backpage was for those particular girls, etc. Somewhere at sometime things got intermingled. My case in point is Aribaby just being reported on the escort thread when it probably should be on backpage thread.

[QUOTE=ToddCincy;4158486]But sure enough, there is a rave review on Trixie, from a guy who's seen her multiple times recently, and loves the fact that the loss of her teeth due to heavy drug use enables her to do a "gummy". (Similar remarks have been made about Cristen Cremes in the past.).

My thoughts: You're kidding me, right? (No, he isn't kidding.).

Not to judge another hobbyist's taste (trying not to, anyway), but this illustrates yet again a real gap among us in terms of minimal standards.

There is a certain percentage of hobbyists who are just looking for cheap providers who will do almost anything, without any discernible quality standards.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Willow1535;4158623]I read his review of Trixie and was able to get through most of it, until he mentioned DATY. Thinking of that made me want to puke. To each his own. One thing that I am grateful for is that he wrote the review. At a minimum, I can go back and look at his history of posts and try to avoid anyone that he has been with.[/QUOTE]Whats UNBELIEVABLE is how many are here talking crazy. Its a FUNNY thing Not one person bashing my name has seen me. EVERYONE that has love me. Many come back I will tell you this IF this shoe fits lace it up ANYONE with craziness to say message me ill see you on MY OWN TIME donation free just to make my point I am and have always been QP ANYONE that has ACTUALLY seen me will tell you the same. I do things at my rate for a reason I'm new back to the area and have to re-establish myself. It don't make sense to me being newly independent to be right out the gate top rate if your not willing to give me the chance to disprove all the shit people have been talking then simply scroll past me and quit talking shit. Were grown adults here. Lets be professional.

So pm me to set something up free of donation. Just a real review based on facts not this rumor mill high school bull shit or simply keep the name out of your mouth.

Much love Trixie. I'll be waiting.

[QUOTE=Willow1535;4158623]I read his review of Trixie and was able to get through most of it, until he mentioned DATY. Thinking of that made me want to puke. To each his own. One thing that I am grateful for is that he wrote the review. At a minimum, I can go back and look at his history of posts and try to avoid anyone that he has been with.[/QUOTE]Whats REALLY funny to me is the fact you won't see me, then want to give people that HAVE in fact become established friends SHIT. Pretty sure its the on that blindly takls shit that cracks me up. Its really sad. I mean I've put it out there MEET me ONE TIME I promise you'll leave w a different mindset. Again free pass no donation just a REAL review w FACTS not this high school drama you are on. Whether you are adult enough to idk BUT I'll wait EITHER keep my name out of you mouth until you have questions comments and concerns go in my inbox. Were not a bunch of high school girls on RUMOR time lets do it message me.

[QUOTE=Willow1535;4159511]When it comes to heroin addicts, fatties, skanks, etc, I don't think that mongers who seek these types out prefer them. It comes down to what they can afford or what they are willing to pay. Pure and simple. At the end of the day, if you only have $5. 00 to spend, you're heading to McDonalds for a value meal; not The Precinct.[/QUOTE]Just for the record, Jeff Ruby is a dick. He's a showman, but, he's one hell of an entitled asshole. So even if I had $500 to spend, I sure as fuck wouldn't spend it on him.

Now, with that said, let's be honest -- some guys are only looking for a certain type of woman. I know that I'd throw all of my money at a smart woman with no gag reflex who likes greek and has red hair (bonus points if they're tall -- if they're tall, I might make an exception to the hair color). Its just my thing. SW'ers are completely out of the question for me, as well as girls who are with an agency. If I see someone who has signs of drug use that is high risk (IV Drugs, H, etc), I'll skip them as well, but, I don't get wrapped up around coke or week (way too much time in Miami). Hell, even if they have a suitcase pimp of a boyfriend / girlfriend, I throw caution around seeing someone -- it's honestly the reason why there are some providers I'm one and done with.

If someone new comes to the scene, doesn't know what the rates are, am I the asshole for fucking her if she's below market value? If an exotic travels here, is she the asshole for charging 2 x what I'd normally pay for almost the same services?

The reality is that for most of us, we control our own destiny (I *completely* understand that married guys might not have the financial flexibility that I might have in spending $$, so I won't ever begrudge them), but, all of us here of us control our own dicks. I'm never going to bemoan a guy because he only likes SW's. I'm never going to talk shit about a provider who I've never personally met (and lord fucking knows I've met my number of them), and I'm sure as fuck not going to try to stick my dick into someone else's issues.

Just my $. 02.

MM.

I just responded to your PM. I respect you for reaching out to me directly and for the civil tone of your message. As I communicated in my response, I will not be taking you up on your offer and I will not post anything else about you. You are correct; I have never seen you and can't comment on your skills or services provided. You have your admirers and I will leave it at that.

[QUOTE=Littlered352;4162845]Whats UNBELIEVABLE is how many are here talking crazy. Its a FUNNY thing Not one person bashing my name has seen me. EVERYONE that has love me. Many come back I will tell you this IF this shoe fits lace it up ANYONE with craziness to say message me ill see you on MY OWN TIME donation free just to make my point I am and have always been QP ANYONE that has ACTUALLY seen me will tell you the same. I do things at my rate for a reason I'm new back to the area and have to re-establish myself. It don't make sense to me being newly independent to be right out the gate top rate if your not willing to give me the chance to disprove all the shit people have been talking then simply scroll past me and quit talking shit. Were grown adults here. Lets be professional.

So pm me to set something up free of donation. Just a real review based on facts not this rumor mill high school bull shit or simply keep the name out of your mouth.

Much love Trixie. I'll be waiting.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Twisted69;4162768]If I'm not mistaken the original threads were devised that way; being USA reviews were just for that, escort reviews were for other higher end girls, backpage was for those particular girls, etc. Somewhere at sometime things got intermingled. My case in point is Aribaby just being reported on the escort thread when it probably should be on backpage thread.[/QUOTE]A lot of providers cross post between USA, Listcrawler, Etc. I'm sure this is the reason reviews for the same girls end up in both places. The only site that I have not noticed this is Eros. I don't think I've ever seen a provider from Eros post on any of the commonly used sites. I'd be very happy to see a sub forum for just Eros girls. That would make things much easier. Maybe retire the craigslist and backpage sub forums and have separate forums for USA, Listcrawler, Eros, and a catch all for the rest. That would be much simpler.

Hey mods. Any chance this could happen?

[QUOTE=Littlered352;4162845]Whats UNBELIEVABLE is how many are here talking crazy. Its a FUNNY thing Not one person bashing my name has seen me. EVERYONE that has love me. Many come back I will tell you this IF this shoe fits lace it up ANYONE with craziness to say message me ill see you on MY OWN TIME donation free just to make my point I am and have always been QP ANYONE that has ACTUALLY seen me will tell you the same. I do things at my rate for a reason I'm new back to the area and have to re-establish myself. It don't make sense to me being newly independent to be right out the gate top rate if your not willing to give me the chance to disprove all the shit people have been talking then simply scroll past me and quit talking shit. Were grown adults here. Lets be professional.

So pm me to set something up free of donation. Just a real review based on facts not this rumor mill high school bull shit or simply keep the name out of your mouth.

Much love Trixie. I'll be waiting.[/QUOTE]That goes on a lot from some mongers and it's usually the same few. As you said there're more gentlemen here than lets just say (NON-PROFESSIONALS). It's your business and you run it the way that makes you feel comfortable.

Kisses,

LadyShay69.

P.S.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

I'd just gotten rid of my burner phone before I read the big hobby related news out of Florida. That almost seems like a sign from above.

I don't normally feel bad for someone who is filthy rich, especially for a famous person who didn't have enough sense to get his needs met more discretely. But I kind of feel badly for Mr. Kraft. His wife died years ago and 99% of the women chasing after him are probably gold diggers, so I can understand why a guy like him would get his needs met in a more transactional way. Now he's going to be the butt of endless jokes just for doing what men do, which is trying to get some.

At least he has millions of dollars to fall back on. I don't. I've been in the hobby this time around for 8 years. In that time, I've never been busted (by wife or LE), never caught a STD (I used covers 100% of the time, but still), and never had anything really bad happen like getting robbed or my head cracked open by a crazy boyfriend.

But no winning streak lasts forever. My last encounter was with Kyla about 3 weeks ago, and it was one of the best encounters of the 15 or so I had with her, so I'd much rather leave the hobby on that note than to keep tempting fate until it happens.

So, I'm going to hit the gym harder than I already am, earn more money, and find a bed buddy to meet my needs.

I thank you for your reports that helped me to have fun and stay safe, and I thank A2 for providing the forum for this info. Stay safe out there.

[QUOTE=UOnlyLiveOnce;4163605]I'd just gotten rid of my burner phone before I read the big hobby related news out of Florida. That almost seems like a sign from above.

I don't normally feel bad for someone who is filthy rich, especially for a famous person who didn't have enough sense to get his needs met more discretely. But I kind of feel badly for Mr. Kraft. His wife died years ago and 99% of the women chasing after him are probably gold diggers, so I can understand why a guy like him would get his needs met in a more transactional way. Now he's going to be the butt of endless jokes just for doing what men do, which is trying to get some.

At least he has millions of dollars to fall back on. I don't. I've been in the hobby this time around for 8 years. In that time, I've never been busted (by wife or LE), never caught a STD (I used covers 100% of the time, but still), and never had anything really bad happen like getting robbed or my head cracked open by a crazy boyfriend.

But no winning streak lasts forever. My last encounter was with Kyla about 3 weeks ago, and it was one of the best encounters of the 15 or so I had with her, so I'd much rather leave the hobby on that note than to keep tempting fate until it happens.

So, I'm going to hit the gym harder than I already am, earn more money, and find a bed buddy to meet my needs.

I thank you for your reports that helped me to have fun and stay safe, and I thank A2 for providing the forum for this info. Stay safe out there.[/QUOTE]1) Patriots.

2) He's got so much money and presumably enough smarts to do this discreetly. He should be a lot more worried about blackmail than getting popped in a massage-parlor sting.

He's 70 something and the chick he's dating is 39. Google Ricki Lander.

Tried to copy past a picture and failed.

[QUOTE=UOnlyLiveOnce;4163605]I'd just gotten rid of my burner phone before I read the big hobby related news out of Florida. That almost seems like a sign from above.

I don't normally feel bad for someone who is filthy rich, especially for a famous person who didn't have enough sense to get his needs met more discretely. But I kind of feel badly for Mr. Kraft. His wife died years ago and 99% of the women chasing after him are probably gold diggers, so I can understand why a guy like him would get his needs met in a more transactional way. Now he's going to be the butt of endless jokes just for doing what men do, which is trying to get some.

At least he has millions of dollars to fall back on. I don't. I've been in the hobby this time around for 8 years. In that time, I've never been busted (by wife or LE), never caught a STD (I used covers 100% of the time, but still), and never had anything really bad happen like getting robbed or my head cracked open by a crazy boyfriend.

But no winning streak lasts forever. My last encounter was with Kyla about 3 weeks ago, and it was one of the best encounters of the 15 or so I had with her, so I'd much rather leave the hobby on that note than to keep tempting fate until it happens.

So, I'm going to hit the gym harder than I already am, earn more money, and find a bed buddy to meet my needs.

I thank you for your reports that helped me to have fun and stay safe, and I thank A2 for providing the forum for this info. Stay safe out there.[/QUOTE]