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I would concurr. I play in VA. Harrisonburg through RVA. $300-$400 is about where I am at. I actually came down over the last 6 months.
I've got 1 or 2 girls that will fuck me in my car for $150-$200. But they are way the exception.
Most of the SB's I am hitting simply wouldn't touch anything for less than $300. If anyone wants to compare notes in this market PM me.
I'm now feeling better about the DC and Boston markets. $250-300 seems to be my going rate for what I'll pay, usually after negotiating down from $400+. Plenty want more, but that isn't necessarily my speed. Or maybe with HWG gone we are all willing to fess up to what the real going rate is?
I don't think race has any correlation with amount at all. In the DC area at least, plenty of AA women are looking for big dollars -- particularly the smarter / sexier ones. The ones that I've corresponded with get insulted quickly when you lowball (even at a reasonable rate of $250-300). I've found this with both the UTR and pure SB women. I've actually found the white women in DC to be a little bit cheaper and easier to negotiate with.
[QUOTE=Krill;2655978]I would concurr. I play in VA. Harrisonburg through RVA. $300-$400 is about where I am at. I actually came down over the last 6 months.
I've got 1 or 2 girls that will fuck me in my car for $150-$200. But they are way the exception.
Most of the SB's I am hitting simply wouldn't touch anything for less than $300. If anyone wants to compare notes in this market PM me.[/QUOTE]Why don't you guys post links to these girls, especially if they are on SA. Post the link and what they are asking. The Cincinnati, Knoxville and Baltimore forums do this. I find these 3 forums much more informative than this forum. I understand that this forum is the catch all from all over the USA but post what region your hunting in and some actual info that might be helpful. Just my 2 cents worth.
I recently just met this BBW Sugar baby who goes to VCU. She is cute and very easy to work with. I am willing to trade info with other members.
This is an interesting discussion of the market in the DC area and beyond. I have to say the rates some of you guys pay is higher than what used to be discussed when HWG was here. Maybe some of you didn't want to reveal you were paying more, and I don't think it is "lowballing at $150" as another poster put it. It is negotiating. I'm from another demographic, but I've been getting most of my girls at $150. If one comes in higher I make a decision if I'm going to negotiate or walk. Most of the time I walk, but if there is a spectacular one with intelligence that I like I will negotiate a higher price. So I think for a lot of you guys it is having the ability to have "walk away power". I'm sensing too many guys are giving in, which inflates market unnecessarily. You guys are businessmen like me. I always try to get the best deal whether it be for pussy or in my line of business. It's not being cheap it's conducting good business. I won't be weak and overpay for pussy if it is not worthy.
Having said the above my current first string baby started out at $150. She wanted more, but she took my offer, because I had enough game to land her. She's an 8/9 that is submissive to me. She let it be known what she was looking for. Basically to be able to quit her job so she can concentrate on school full time. I didn't do that obviously with my $150 per meet, but what I did do was inch closer to what she is looking for. I moved her to $200 per meet plus pay her rent of $400 per month. I'm seeing her once per week. So that's coming in at about $1200 per month. She was hoping to get around $1800 per month where she could quit her job. To me it's just good business. She can get more by holding out for the occasional whale, but she likes me, and is willing to prove herself. Kind of a nice GE.
Now my dilemma will come in tomorrow when I sit down with this 21 yr old stripper, who just started less than a month ago. She doesn't have that mentality as she is taking full time classes and working at a Bob Evan's as a server. She started this on the side for three nights per week to make extra money. Was probably told she could do well, but she already would like to cut it down to two days, because it is not something she will stick with. She's a 10/10 in my book, so the negotiating is going to be tough. I really like this one, but my $150 per meet won't fly. We've talked a little, so I think she'll come in higher. The question is how high is she going to start? She really doesn't have time for more than one daddy if any really. It's not something she was seeking. She is not on SA. I sold her on it. Again, not tooting my horn, but she liked my game, and now talks to me everyday on texting. She's more of a 10 intellectual type, which really turns me on. A hot babe with a brain that's sweet, with a little naivete to her. But I have to ask myself if I want to invest in this much money for two babies that with all intents and purposes will take me off the market of new pussy. I did just let my SA account expire this morning, so I am going in that direction. I essentially could be locking myself down with two babies long term. If this works out with this second one, then I'm off the market for awhile. Question is can they give me enough sex per week that I need to stay content? I need more than twice per week. I do have two second stringers in a 20 yr old and a 31 yr old, but that would only increase my pussy expenses. That's my dilemma coming up tomorrow. But again if this 21 yr old 10 and I cannot agree on a deal then I'll have the walk away power to move on.
[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2656401]... Or maybe with HWG gone we are all willing to fess up to what the real going rate is?
...[/QUOTE]I think it is simply a case of timing. The topic of sugar amount in one's "play" area did not come up until I complained about the high expectation $ in my home town?!
Also HWG is in LA which has been described as the land of eternal pussy! So the going rate is lower across races. I believe Mike7794 is playing in the vicinity these days with similar results!
$250 is top dollar in RVA / VaBEach / Nova corridor.
I play at $150 -200 Max. If you are paying more you do not have enough game, or have plenty of money to not worry about it. You have to be able to walk away and say NO! The girls are spoiled by those who are paying the big allowances. Don't pay up and then complain when you can't find someone at a reasonable allowance.
$100 is not doable here. Hollywood has a certain style that most of us do not have. I can't date -therefore woo -these girls. But I have no problem having one or two who will pleasure me for my price point. If I could take them out to dinner and treats, I'd be overflowing. The younger dudes have it easier. If you are in the 30-40 yr old range the girls can see you as date-able, and therefore will give it up for less.
Hold the line Gents! If you let the price drift up the market will dry up -or just be the private preserve for the uber rich.
Would I love to fuck for hours and ONLY have to pay $100? Sure, who wouldn't? But that is not realistic.
One of the issues with negotiating is you turn it into a transaction, and, over time, the you both treat it that way.
Sure, the SBs may be faking their affection and orgasms, but if they are, they do a much better job than the pros, and there is a pretty good chance she is not kissing you with the same mouth that took three loads of some strange monger's cum earlier in the day.
I ask them what tuition assistance / loan repayment program would get me my desired time together -- I let them name their price and I either agree or decline, but rarely do I negotiate. I want them to be happy, if not thrilled, with what they are getting, and trying to talk them down from $400 to $250 starts things off on the wrong foot in my book.
Occassionally they will insist on asking me what I have to offer. I tell them my standard and let them decide. Again, I don't let them talk me up to what they might have had in mind. Too many POTS in the bowl to play that game.
Also, I rarely compensate them in all cash. My $700 overnight in NYC was happy to take $400 in cash and a $300 spa gift card I won in a charity auction (for which I paid $200). So out of pocket cost was only $600. The Showcase Showdown Prize package approach with a retail value of $_ _ _ carries a lot of weight in terms of making it feel less transactional for them. Charity Auctions are great places for swag for SBs -- restaurants they can never afford, Gift Cards to boutiques...it rarely goes for retail value.
I place the cash in an envelope and put it in a gift bag with a nice candle or other girly treat and they just take it when they leave. Never had one open it and count it all out like a pro does.
Non-cash prizes can be a huge hit. My father in law went in to assisted living. Boxed up his microwave, 42" TV, coffee maker and a few other appliances and shipped them to an SB fresh out of college moving into her first apartment alone. She did not care they were slightly used, she was worried about how much her new place would take to furnish and was strapped with first / last payment. She was thrilled to have all this stuff she needed, but would not be able to afford for 6 months. Cost me less than $100 in UPS charges, got me a 3 hour fuck fest, saved me the trouble of a garage sale.
A few of my friends/clients/vendors are happy to trade their goods and services for what my company offers. Barter = swag for the girl, and it is often a business expense!
FM kind of already pointed it out, but at $500 - $700 for an overnight, you're at the "practical allowance" level ($3 k a month) if you see a baby six. Eight times a month.
Also it depends on your definition of quality. For example, I know lots of attractive mid to late 30 / early 40 year old ladies who would be thrilled with a per date allowance of $400 in the DC and NYC areas. I wouldn't date them, but that doesn't make them unattractive or low quality. A man in his mid to late 60's might prefer a woman in her 30's. They don't even show up on my radar anymore since my search filter is now set to 18 - 25.
Finding a 18-25 year old, spinner who is both attractive, a nice body (8/8/8) and who is fun to be around, I've found to be more difficult. Finding a UTR in those parameters is much easier. In fact Julia. The one who likes her men like her whiskey, but doesn't drink it. Is someone I'd put in the utr semi pro category that is attractive with a nice body, but who is not someone that I would consider a long term SB. If I remember correctly I shared her info with you a while back.
Don't get me wrong though, there are quality non semi pro ladies that can be had at the $150 - $250 range, which is my sweet spot. They make up my current rotation, with the exception of my long term swim instructor who gets an $350 per date. Of course she gets that from me because she has taken herself off the market, and I know some of you lurkers out there would easily give her an allowance at the moderate level ($5 k) a month.
And of course with some luck and skill, there are many ladies who would normally require much higher allowances, but who will date you if you're good looking, nice, and can make a girl laugh.
At the end of the day though, I've found that most ladies in the dc and NYC markets are looking for a practical allowance or higher, which in my book equates to about $500 or $700 per date, depending on how many dates you have a month.
I consider that to be a difficult market as compared to others. So for example, Baltimore, Philly, Newark DE, RVA, are only a few hours from dc and NYC respectively, but the expectations of the pots are significantly more reasonable.
Just my two cents based on my personal experiences.
[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2655599]I have had no trouble finding quality women in DC, Chicago or NYC willing to meet for $3-400 per date and $5-700 for an overnight fuck fest.
Since I am visiting these cities, they know theris no LT prospect of an allowance, so they probably see me while they fish for allowance providers.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you 100% about the whole negotiating thing. It always leaves a sour taste in my mouth when a discussion about allowance turns into a negotiation. It makes it feel like a transaction. I also feel that way when a pot asks how much time she is expected to spend with me, or if she starts talking about compensation for her time. When the conversation or messages take that turn, I normally ask if they would view spending time with me like a job.
As it relates to the allowance discussion, I normally let it flow naturally and outline what kind of allowance I am willing to provide. I generally try to get them to tell me what they are used to receiving. This is where I can normally tell whether they're full of BS or if its not even worth going through what can do for them. At the end, its a take it or leave it situation. Lots of ladies I never hear from again. Which is why my first m&g is coffee or something similar. When I do hear from a lady again, I always take them to a nice high end restaurant and keep my promises.
As for the amount of time we spend together, I generally don't bother going past the m&g with a pot that asks me that question. Don't get me wrong, I have in the past, but generally found that the time together feels forced. In response to the question though, I usually tell them that they can spend as little or as much time as they want with me. If there is no intimacy, there is no allowance. If there is intimacy, but it feels transactional, I probably won't see her again.
[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2657146]Would I love to fuck for hours and ONLY have to pay $100? Sure, who wouldn't? But that is not realistic.
One of the issues with negotiating is you turn it into a transaction, and, over time, the you both treat it that way.
Sure, the SBs may be faking their affection and orgasms, but if they are, they do a much better job than the pros, and there is a pretty good chance she is not kissing you with the same mouth that took three loads of some strange monger's cum earlier in the day.
I ask them what tuition assistance / loan repayment program would get me my desired time together -- I let them name their price and I either agree or decline, but rarely do I negotiate. I want them to be happy, if not thrilled, with what they are getting, and trying to talk them down from $400 to $250 starts things off on the wrong foot in my book.
Occassionally they will insist on asking me what I have to offer. I tell them my standard and let them decide. Again, I don't let them talk me up to what they might have had in mind. Too many POTS in the bowl to play that game.
Also, I rarely compensate them in all cash. My $700 overnight in NYC was happy to take $400 in cash and a $300 spa gift card I won in a charity auction (for which I paid $200). So out of pocket cost was only $600. The Showcase Showdown Prize package approach with a retail value of $_ _ _ carries a lot of weight in terms of making it feel less transactional for them. Charity Auctions are great places for swag for SBs -- restaurants they can never afford, Gift Cards to boutiques...it rarely goes for retail value.
I place the cash in an envelope and put it in a gift bag with a nice candle or other girly treat and they just take it when they leave. Never had one open it and count it all out like a pro does.
Non-cash prizes can be a huge hit. My father in law went in to assisted living. Boxed up his microwave, 42" TV, coffee maker and a few other appliances and shipped them to an SB fresh out of college moving into her first apartment alone. She did not care they were slightly used, she was worried about how much her new place would take to furnish and was strapped with first / last payment. She was thrilled to have all this stuff she needed, but would not be able to afford for 6 months. Cost me less than $100 in UPS charges, got me a 3 hour fuck fest, saved me the trouble of a garage sale.
A few of my friends/clients/vendors are happy to trade their goods and services for what my company offers. Barter = swag for the girl, and it is often a business expense![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2657553]I agree with you 100% about the whole negotiating thing. It always leaves a sour taste in my mouth when a discussion about allowance turns into a negotiation. It makes it feel like a transaction. I also feel that way when a pot asks how much time she is expected to spend with me, or if she starts talking about compensation for her time. When the conversation or messages take that turn, I normally ask if they would view spending time with me like a job.
As it relates to the allowance discussion, I normally let it flow naturally and outline what kind of allowance I am willing to provide. I generally try to get them to tell me what they are used to receiving. This is where I can normally tell whether they're full of BS or if its not even worth going through what can do for them. At the end, its a take it or leave it situation. Lots of ladies I never hear from again. Which is why my first m&g is coffee or something similar. When I do hear from a lady again, I always take them to a nice high end restaurant and keep my promises.
As for the amount of time we spend together, I generally don't bother going past the m&g with a pot that asks me that question. Don't get me wrong, I have in the past, but generally found that the time together feels forced. In response to the question though, I usually tell them that they can spend as little or as much time as they want with me. If there is no intimacy, there is no allowance. If there is intimacy, but it feels transactional, I probably won't see her again.[/QUOTE]The "How long?" question is not straightforward. IMHO. For example, a MILF may well be able to snatch a couple of hours in the middle of the day without a problem, but an overnighter might have her wanting enough for a sitter. Someone who has a husband may have similar problems, and so, planning her time is an issue. Those were two examples, but I'm sure there are many other situations where our time expectations are something she needs to know, quite apart from the transactional.
[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2657088]I think it is simply a case of timing. The topic of sugar amount in one's "play" area did not come up until I complained about the high expectation $ in my home town?!
Also HWG is in LA which has been described as the land of eternal pussy! So the going rate is lower across races. I believe Mike7794 is playing in the vicinity these days with similar results![/QUOTE]Yes the $150 is generally what I've had success with, but I am noticing market pressure in the upward direction with new ones I'm talking to.
ArcherSterling those are some creative compensation packages you put together.
[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2656446]Why don't you guys post links to these girls, especially if they are on SA. Post the link and what they are asking. The Cincinnati, Knoxville and Baltimore forums do this. I find these 3 forums much more informative than this forum. I understand that this forum is the catch all from all over the USA but post what region your hunting in and some actual info that might be helpful. Just my 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE]I'm not from this area, but I always have wondered why posting links to some of these women that might be scammers or just to stay away from doesn't exist here? I have noticed the Cincy area thread does do that.
[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/blog/[/URL]
This is why we need to stay together in our negotiations. If not then the market will get driven up unless we collectively give resistance to an potentially increasing market.