Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;3665180]Working class hasn't seen a pay raise for forty years when adj for inflation. 20 million illegal workers doing jobs that Americans want, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and other skilled trades that used to lead to a solid mid to upper middle class lifestyle, contributes to that. Home prices any cheaper? No, But the gap between the upper 10% and the bottom 90% has never been wider. Granted, its the people who hire them that is the problem, but legal americans hiring illegal labor isn't new. Once railroad system was built, America ran off the Mexicans and Chinese then. That's how many Chinese ended up in Mexico.

Those here illegally don't exist. No DL, SSN, no prints / dna on file unless they been busted, deported, then snuck back in. Not far to the rest of us. If we commit a crime, they going to find us. Try to pick a medium hgt, medium wgt, brown eyed, black haired Hispanic male out of a line up. And if you don't think some or many crazed muslims have come thru that southern border, you're nuts. I can't believe that after 9/11 all borders weren't secured, overstaying visa made a felony and returning to country after deportation for a crime hasn't led to minimum maximums incarceration.

Don't believe the,'doing jobs americans won't, bullshit. Won't do job for 8 an hour, skilled trades can lead to a good living. Already a program in place for fruit pickers.

Admin is spouting same bullshit he accusses others of spouting. He just listens to diff radio stations, TV channels. You still in Argentina admin? Your papers in order? Your carry your papers on you? As a guest, do you obey that nation's laws? Bet you do. Why? Cause you don't want to get thrown into a jail in Argentina. I've spent time in S. America. I carried my papers with me everywhere. Even kept my receipts after purchases in case the military types carrying automatic weapons stopped me outside the store seeking to enforce VAT.[/QUOTE]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3665364]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.[/QUOTE]Can't fully disagree with you, and I'm not a racist. However, Mexicans are known to work fast and hard, but they don't always do a great job. Maybe with landscaping, but with construction their homes are made on weak foundations.

Those cheap wooded houses get build so quickly by Mexicans, but they tear down and degrade even faster than they were built.

I know this firsthand from a few contractors in my family and friends of the family.

They are very hard workers though, and they party twice as hard as they work. Known for being hard drinkers as well.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

I really enjoy these political conversations, it enlightens me with new philosophies and perspectives. It also shows everyone's political views / stances on key issues.

More importantly though, what is Donald Trump going to do about North Korea??

Are tougher sanctions really the solution? The UN has been imposing sanctions on the communist regime FOR YEARS; but nothing spectacular has changed.

I don't believe sanctions can force Kim Jong Un to halt nuclear weapon advancement / progress.

Also, North Korea is known for selling weapons and Intel to foreign nations. They will sell to the highest bidder, INCLUDING ISIS and any other radical groups who have the money to spend.

What happens if a nuclear warhead is developed that can strike mainland USA?

Would the North Koreans sell this technology to ISIS, the Russians, or any of our enemies??

Will the communist regime ever be over thrown? Or will it continue to grow and progress, until they are a bigger threat?

Something to think about guys. How do you feel the situation should be handled??

Does Donald Trump have what is takes to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program?

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;3663071]If Pence were POTUS, we would all be wearing chastity belts that's for sure. I'll take Trump over Pence anyday of the week even though I do not think much of either of them.[/QUOTE]I am under the impression that Mike Pence is a very STRICT and STAUNCH CONSERVATIVE.

Basically a good figurehead for the grand old party!

I figure that if Pence becomes POTUS, the GOP will be strengthened and come together in agreement. Right now the GOP is kind of divided, because Trump is NOT your typical conservative.

Mike Pence also seems like he doesn't F around at all.

Social justice warriors would hate him, but who cares?

[QUOTE=Jj3000;3664922].

I have driven through Mexico many times. Every time you cross into a different State you are required to show a passport to prove you are there legally. Then when you leave Mexico you pay an exit fee. They are more strict than the US! In this day and age allowing unverified immigrants into the US is folly. There is no reason the US shouldn't be a sovereign nation.[/QUOTE]Granted, this was 30 years ago, so things may have changed but I spent a lot of time in Tijuana, when I was in the military, not one time did I get asked for I'd going in. Only on my way out. I.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;3665180]Working class hasn't seen a pay raise for forty years when adj for inflation. 20 million illegal workers doing jobs that Americans want, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and other skilled trades that used to lead to a solid mid to upper middle class lifestyle, contributes to that. Home prices any cheaper? No, But the gap between the upper 10% and the bottom 90% has never been wider. Granted, its the people who hire them that is the problem, but legal americans hiring illegal labor isn't new. Once railroad system was built, America ran off the Mexicans and Chinese then. That's how many Chinese ended up in Mexico.

Those here illegally don't exist. No DL, SSN, no prints / dna on file unless they been busted, deported, then snuck back in. Not far to the rest of us. If we commit a crime, they going to find us. Try to pick a medium hgt, medium wgt, brown eyed, black haired Hispanic male out of a line up. And if you don't think some or many crazed muslims have come thru that southern border, you're nuts. I can't believe that after 9/11 all borders weren't secured, overstaying visa made a felony and returning to country after deportation for a crime hasn't led to minimum maximums incarceration.

Don't believe the,'doing jobs americans won't, bullshit. Won't do job for 8 an hour, skilled trades can lead to a good living. Already a program in place for fruit pickers.

Admin is spouting same bullshit he accusses others of spouting. He just listens to diff radio stations, TV channels. You still in Argentina admin? Your papers in order? Your carry your papers on you? As a guest, do you obey that nation's laws? Bet you do. Why? Cause you don't want to get thrown into a jail in Argentina. I've spent time in S. America. I carried my papers with me everywhere. Even kept my receipts after purchases in case the military types carrying automatic weapons stopped me outside the store seeking to enforce VAT.[/QUOTE]Look at a historical chart showing this country's embarrassing economic inequality gap and you'll see that it began with Reaganomics. Stagnant wages have resulted from "trickle down" economics that didn't trickle down. We're so smart, though, we blame that on undocumented immigrants while we watch wealthy, elitist politicians enact another round of "trickle down" tax reform to please their wealthy sponsors.

Here's an article to help you understand that there is a SHORTAGE of workers in the skilled trades: [URL]http://fortune.com/2017/09/18/hurricane-maria-hurricane-jose-construction-jobs/[/URL]. We're so smart though, we're going to claim that undocumented immigrants are keeping Americans from taking those jobs.

Here, AGAIN, is the article that A2 posted about crops rotting in the Georgia fields when immigrant labor was scared off: [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/[/URL] I remember when that happened and farmers couldn't even get prison labor to come pick fruits and veggies. We're so smart though, we're going to pretend that didn't happen because it contradicts our narrative.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder: Are we actually smart, or are we really just full of shit?

[QUOTE=Trojano;3665543]Look at a historical chart showing this country's embarrassing economic inequality gap and you'll see that it began with Reaganomics. Stagnant wages have resulted from "trickle down" economics that didn't trickle down. We're so smart, though, we blame that on undocumented immigrants while we watch wealthy, elitist politicians enact another round of "trickle down" tax reform to please their wealthy sponsors.

Here's an article to help you understand that there is a SHORTAGE of workers in the skilled trades: [URL]http://fortune.com/2017/09/18/hurricane-maria-hurricane-jose-construction-jobs/[/URL]. We're so smart though, we're going to claim that undocumented immigrants are keeping Americans from taking those jobs.

Here, AGAIN, is the article that A2 posted about crops rotting in the Georgia fields when immigrant labor was scared off: [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/[/URL] I remember when that happened and farmers couldn't even get prison labor to come pick fruits and veggies. We're so smart though, we're going to pretend that didn't happen because it contradicts our narrative.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder: Are we actually smart, or are we really just full of shit?[/QUOTE]Income inequality began under Nixon, especially post Bretton Woods 2. Exacerbated since, after Obama's 8 years, widest in modern US history. Obama also led the first US econ recovery where all gains+ went to the top 10%, mainlt top 1%.

I've been the construction related industries for over 20 years. Don't need to read an article. I've seen it happen.

Seems like you the one claiming to be smart. I'm done. Not smart enough to compete with you genius'.

Uncle Sam has learned the hard way some times. Saying that, they should get stricter with people who cross the border. Maybe not build a wall but hire a lot of border patrol. If they want in the USA That's fine. Just make all new ones crossing the border go through the proper steps to live here. Take their picture and keep track of where they live here while going through the process. Aaron has some pretty damn good points.

[QUOTE=Zipper34;3665576]Uncle Sam has learned the hard way some times. Saying that, they should get stricter with people who cross the border. Maybe not build a wall but hire a lot of border patrol. If they want in the USA That's fine. Just make all new ones crossing the border go through the proper steps to live here. Take their picture and keep track of where they live here while going through the process. Aaron has some pretty damn good points.[/QUOTE]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.

[QUOTE=ElPerron;3665831]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.[/QUOTE]Now that is persistence! He actually risked his life trying to go through Chiapas, that state is absolutely lawless except for the corrupt Federales who would just as soon shoot an illegal from Guatemala than bring him in. Mexican border patrol is vicious. My son in law's parents came across from Honduras in the late 70's. They made it in time for the Regan era amnesty. I feel bad for anyone trying to get into Mexico these days. It was hard back then, now it's nearly impossible for families to get all the way across their countries through Mexico. They are really tough on illegals there. It's unfortunate, because it's only hard on families trying to flee the terror in their own countries. Now, the criminals, they have it easy they can skip across Mexico like going from Cali to Nevada because they know who to pay off and who to avoid.

[QUOTE=ElPerron;3665831]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.[/QUOTE]Back in 2-3 months? That's exactly why we need that wall. It's like a typical military operation:

1. Secure the perimeter (build the wall).

2. Secure the interior (remove undesirables).

3. Let good people live in peace, pay their taxes, don't get into trouble, and prosper.

Mexico and other countries need to fix their own problems. If they had their shit together like Canada, we wouldn't need a wall.

[QUOTE=TheParrot;3665392]I really enjoy these political conversations, it enlightens me with new philosophies and perspectives. It also shows everyone's political views / stances on key issues.

More importantly though, what is Donald Trump going to do about North Korea??

Are tougher sanctions really the solution? The UN has been imposing sanctions on the communist regime FOR YEARS; but nothing spectacular has changed.

I don't believe sanctions can force Kim Jong Un to halt nuclear weapon advancement / progress.

Also, North Korea is known for selling weapons and Intel to foreign nations. They will sell to the highest bidder, INCLUDING ISIS and any other radical groups who have the money to spend.

What happens if a nuclear warhead is developed that can strike mainland USA?

Would the North Koreans sell this technology to ISIS, the Russians, or any of our enemies??

Will the communist regime ever be over thrown? Or will it continue to grow and progress, until they are a bigger threat?

Something to think about guys. How do you feel the situation should be handled??

Does Donald Trump have what is takes to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program?[/QUOTE]Tough sanctions will put pressure on North Korea, but it won't stop their nuke program because it's their only trump card (excuse the pun). North Korea will continue to do anything to make a buck so we'll see increased evidence of their illicit activities. There is evidence that sanctions are working but North Korea goes to great lengths to hide it. South Korean intelligence knows a ton but they don't make it known publicly and they don't share everything with the US.

Kim knows that if he ever launches a nuke at us, it's game over. The Chinese won't protect him and neither will the Russians, so he'll simply commit suicide when his time comes.

[blue]I'm amazed we agree almost 100%.

Question (not argument) you don't think he's crazy enough to pop it at the end of his time because he wants his country to die with him? I do.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3665364]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.[/QUOTE]Them redneck white guys are horrible. They'll hold up the line at the liquor store on Friday afternoon so they can cash their weekly checks for a 6% fee, then deplete local supplies of Miller High Life so other folks are forced to fend for themselves. Highly unconscionable!

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]: [/b] [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it appeared to be a [u]threat made towards other Forum members[/u]. Threatening other members in any way, either veiled or directly, is strictly prohibited and will result the the perpetrator being banned from the forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

Once more and you gotta go.

Not joking, I don't care if it's me or somebody else, you don't get to make death threats. I know you're just some disgruntled old drunk but there are lines.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;3665980]Tough sanctions will put pressure on North Korea, but it won't stop their nuke program because it's their only trump card (excuse the pun). North Korea will continue to do anything to make a buck so we'll see increased evidence of their illicit activities. There is evidence that sanctions are working but North Korea goes to great lengths to hide it. South Korean intelligence knows a ton but they don't make it known publicly and they don't share everything with the US.

Kim knows that if he ever launches a nuke at us, it's game over. The Chinese won't protect him and neither will the Russians, so he'll simply commit suicide when his time comes.

[blue]I'm amazed we agree almost 100%.

Question (not argument) you don't think he's crazy enough to pop it at the end of his time because he wants his country to die with him? I do.

A2[/blue][/QUOTE]My hunch about Kim is that, basically, I doubt he's fully in charge; it's even possible he's a figurehead.

North Korea operates, essentially, as a kind of totalitarian cult; they have always needed a charismatic, even godlike, figurehead. In this case, a glorious family of figureheads, Kims 1, 2, and (now) 3. NK is a complex enough operation for a government (ironic to consider, but keeping a dumpster fire of a nation like NK afloat is probably much more challenging than, say, running the USA, which can actually just buy and lease stuff it needs), so there is NO WAY it's the kind of one-man show it appears to be.

I think Kim's job is to *seem* borderline nuts ("he fed his uncle to a dog! WTF!" ), since that's what keeps the threat of their handful of rocketless nukes effective as a deterrent.

I think the USA, at the intelligence level, knows this as well, which is why no "decapitation" ops have been run against NK. Yes, it's remote and secure, but parachuting a team in to take out Kim is far from impossible; it hasn't been done because removing Kim won't *actually* leave NK rudderless. There's an executive presence either behind him or alongside him.

Note that this is pure conjecture on my part. I have some insider understanding of elements of Asia, but NK isn't included; it's just the gamesman in me looking at the situation: it's simply unfeasible that Kim - doughy, soft, luxury-loving Kim - is the kind of talented strongman who can operate as an authentic, totalitarian dictator; what we have here - I'd wager money on it - is a kind of oligarchy or similar.

So "mad Kim" is less a strategic threat than it is simply a psyop.

O.