The section on CL that a lot of spas used to advertise is gone as well.
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The section on CL that a lot of spas used to advertise is gone as well.
[QUOTE=WalterKovacs;3789040]The real question. Is this good or bad for mongers? Does this put the power back in the hands of mongers to bargain prices or does this drive prices up on providers end?[/QUOTE]Short-term, I'd expect to see more business move toward sites that haven't been affected like Eros, etc. I also think AMPs will be busier and there may be a reappearance of SW traffic where there wasn't before. Long-term, something will fill the void as it always has. What that something is will depend on the marketplace. My guess is that BP had too much baggage and even their recent changes weren't enough to save them. What happens to them now will depend on the courts. Any new websites will have the advantage of knowing what LE is targeting and will be able to tailor their service accordingly.
As these disruptions play out, pricing will probably be volatile as individual providers and clients try to use the situation to their own advantage. A client who is desperate for a nut is going to overpay more than one who can maintain price discipline. And there will be some providers who will lower their prices if business drops off and they can't pay for their needs.
Interesting times. Stay tuned.
Looks like CL is also taking proactive steps to avoid the BP treatment.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3789727]Looks like CL is also taking proactive steps to avoid the BP treatment.[/QUOTE]Saw this too.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3789702]Short-term, I'd expect to see more business move toward sites that haven't been affected like Eros, etc. I also think AMPs will be busier and there may be a reappearance of SW traffic where there wasn't before. Long-term, something will fill the void as it always has. What that something is will depend on the marketplace. My guess is that BP had too much baggage and even their recent changes weren't enough to save them. What happens to them now will depend on the courts. Any new websites will have the advantage of knowing what LE is targeting and will be able to tailor their service accordingly.
As these disruptions play out, pricing will probably be volatile as individual providers and clients try to use the situation to their own advantage. A client who is desperate for a nut is going to overpay more than one who can maintain price discipline. And there will be some providers who will lower their prices if business drops off and they can't pay for their needs.
Interesting times. Stay tuned.[/QUOTE]I say now is the time for gentlemen to collectively withhold to maintain order and put clients back in driver seat.
Full disclosure: I'm not a lawyer, although I did have a provider dress up as a legal secretary at a Holiday Inn Express last night (wink wink).
But, IIRC, the new FOSTA law hasn't been signed by the Prez so, whatever the Feds have on BP, they have it under existing law.
Since the notice on the website also lists the IRS and Postal Inspection Service, I'm guessing they dug up something related to tax evasion, alleged money laundering, or something related to the mail. Although the notice says more info will be released after 6 pm, I haven't seen any specifics and there's no press release yet from DOJ.
As always, the devil is in the details so we don't really know yet what legal issues are involved. But, whatever it is, it's not FOSTA-related because that hasn't taken effect yet.
With so many sites being shut down today the question is how do providers and their clients connect now? I don't know yet, but think that several members of this forum could contact some favorite providers and see what they plan to do now and share that info here. Any thoughts?
The Drudge Report had a link to the following article from Arizona:
[URL]http://www.azfamily.com/story/37898603/fbi-raids-sedona-home-of-backpagecom-founder-michael-lacey[/URL]
So much for the First Amendment in the USA What next?
According to this site, the bill was presented to the president for his signature or veto this past Wednesday. He has yet to act. I hope he vetoes the bill and tells Congress where to stick it.
[URL]https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1865[/URL]
Interesting to read what actual workers are saying. Also, this is not geographic specific, so perspective from all over:
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/[/URL]
[QUOTE=BayouJ;3791125]Interesting to read what actual workers are saying. Also, this is not geographic specific, so perspective from all over:
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks for the Reddit link. Followed a link from one of the posts and found this helpful info:
[URL]https://gerzilla.de/channel/cat-gun/?f=&mid=f92758fc66f535978e0d879070a0b2bf32d3efd8eb5ed6c7149119eaa4dbafdf[/URL]
Click the "expand" button at the bottom to see the entire post.
Eccie and TER (The Erotic Review) now also down.
[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-07/feds-seize-backpagecom-online-prostitution-crackdown[/URL]
We know it's not FOSTA, since that law hasn't gone into effect yet. So my thoughts have been that, after BP beat the charges against them in CA, the Feds continued to dig to see what kind of dirt they could find.
Most of the article is just a rehash of old arguments but, in the 3rd paragraph, it says the following:
"Investigators had discovered that, despite selling their interest in the site to a foreign company, the company's co-founders still maintained control through a network of shell companies".
If that's the case, and since the principal reason for a shell company would be to disguise ownership or control, then perhaps the main focus is on money laundering or something similar.
If that's true, then obviously the Feds will try to claim the 1st amendment isn't an issue. Whether they can successfully do that is another matter. Right now the info is incomplete since the indictment hasn't been released. That'll make for some interesting reading when it happens.
[QUOTE=Skooby;3791409]Eccie and TER (The Erotic Review) now also down.[/QUOTE]If you use a VPN or TOR Browser, you can still access TER (and maybe ECCIE). TER is only blocked to the US and TOR will route you through a proxy outside the US.
Plus, if you use a VPN or TOR-like browser, your internet usage is hidden from your ISP.
BSOT.
Stoop.
[QUOTE=Skooby;3791409]Eccie and TER (The Erotic Review) now also down.[/QUOTE]TER is blocked for US IPs, can be accessed via Tor w / VPN.
[QUOTE=BaconBread;3791474]TER is blocked for US IPs, can be accessed via Tor w / VPN.[/QUOTE]Another VPN that works is the one that comes free with the Opera browser. Just choose a non-US location as your connection option. The free Opera VPN app will work similarly on Android phones, not sure about iPhone, but only while using a wifi connection.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3791213]Thanks for the Reddit link. Followed a link from one of the posts and found this helpful info:
[URL]https://gerzilla.de/channel/cat-gun/?f=&mid=f92758fc66f535978e0d879070a0b2bf32d3efd8eb5ed6c7149119eaa4dbafdf[/URL]
Click the "expand" button at the bottom to see the entire post.[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing!
[URL]http://onebackpage.com/female-escorts_northern-virginia-c451905[/URL]
[URL]http://onebackpage.com/massage_northern-virginia-c451905[/URL]
I haven't browsed the entire site, but it also features categories for personals, casual connections, etc.
Remember when America tried to ban Beer? Yeah, didn't work out too great for them so history will once again prove that this action will make matters much much worse for all parties and not better. You can't snuff out the worlds oldest profession so easily. Ultimately, this play is the equivalent of plugging a leak. You think you solved the problem, but eventually the water finds it's way through tiny cracks and then the pressure builds and the next thing you know, flood of new websites and avenues appear as the world keeps spinning.
Looks like another alternative just popped up, but I don't see any ads yet: [URL]http://nova.bedpage.com/[/URL].
This Won't interrupt my, I see most providers will just stay on Snapchat and IG.
HELPFUL TIP: If you want to view TER profiles or deleted BP ads just search the providers number in google and click "Cached" page should still show up!
[URL]https://www.axios.com/backpage-indictments-justice-department-1523307469-43fa474e-b9a2-4e8d-95ec-6fcc887e3796.html[/URL]
Just skimmed through it but it seems like mostly a rehash of the charges BP already beat in CA. IMHO, the Feds have repackaged that info, added some money laundering charges as icing, and are now trying to serve it up to a new jury in AZ.
While there's no way to predict how this trial will turn out, what's seems clear is that this is a case where the Feds are trying to accomplish what CA could not.
I have a VPN at home because I don't like any of my web activity to be seen by my ISP. I can switch regions and connect. I was able to connect to Toronto and then view the TER profiles without any issues. I would suggest getting a VPN as a matter of privacy. Being able to look at blocked content is a bi-product.
[QUOTE=WalterKovacs;3794131]HELPFUL TIP: If you want to view TER profiles or deleted BP ads just search the providers number in google and click "Cached" page should still show up![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ChineseConJuro;3795814]I have a VPN at home because I don't like any of my web activity to be seen by my ISP. I can switch regions and connect. I was able to connect to Toronto and then view the TER profiles without any issues. I would suggest getting a VPN as a matter of privacy. Being able to look at blocked content is a bi-product.[/QUOTE]I have started to use the Opera browser. Has VPN (3 regions outside US). Easy to turn it on and off.
[QUOTE=YoyoSpa;3804008]I have started to use the Opera browser. Has VPN (3 regions outside US). Easy to turn it on and off.[/QUOTE]Last time I used TOR, TER had erased the USA ladies.
[QUOTE=DrBombay;3804333]Last time I used TOR, TER had erased the USA ladies.[/QUOTE]I spoke with a few of the TER Ladies I know. TER did not delete information -- but if the lady lists her location as within the US, TER won't display it. However, if the lady updates her profile with a non-US location (like Canada or Elsewhere), then TER will show all her history (with actual locations).
This can become complicated (where is the lady) -- but I thought was a clever work around for the ladies who thought of it.
NR.
[URL]https://www.xbiz.com/news/236084/usa-sex-guide-relaunches-after-closing-down-because-of-fosta[/URL]
[URL]http://wjla.com/news/local/3-arrested-human-trafficking-massage-parlors-md[/URL]
Saw this in the MD forums (hat tip to MPduration). Here are some takeaways from the story:
1. It happened right next door in MoCo and neighboring jurisdictions tend to work together on these kinds of things by forming task forces, etc. So, even though these kinds of things have always happened from time to time, I think it's not a bad idea to be extra careful in the current environment. With BP and CL gone, AMPs are some of the lowest-hanging fruit remaining.
2. The hardball investigative tactics used, including surveillance, dumpster diving, and questioning clients coming out of the AMPs.
3. The fact that, at least according to the media report, EVERY single one of the 40 guys they questioned admitted to illegal behavior. Really? WTF is up with that?!
4. The fact that, without a shred of evidence beyond the fact that they worked at an AMP, the report characterizes all the women as trafficking victims. Were any of them coerced or forced? If so, then that label might apply. But we've gotten to the place where, for the media and LE and the general public, the REAL standard of what constitutes trafficking doesn't matter anymore. The current reality is that anything related to prostitution is treated as trafficking. Even if the women involved are adults and are doing it willingly to earn a living and provide for their families. Truth unfortunately can never compete with hype.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3825555][URL]http://wjla.com/news/local/3-arrested-human-trafficking-massage-parlors-md[/URL]
Saw this in the MD forums (hat tip to MPduration). Here are some takeaways from the story:
1. It happened right next door in MoCo and neighboring jurisdictions tend to work together on these kinds of things by forming task forces, etc. So, even though these kinds of things have always happened from time to time, I think it's not a bad idea to be extra careful in the current environment. With BP and CL gone, AMPs are some of the lowest-hanging fruit remaining.
2. The hardball investigative tactics used, including surveillance, dumpster diving, and questioning clients coming out of the AMPs.
3. The fact that, at least according to the media report, EVERY single one of the 40 guys they questioned admitted to illegal behavior. Really? WTF is up with that?!
4. The fact that, without a shred of evidence beyond the fact that they worked at an AMP, the report characterizes all the women as trafficking victims. Were any of them coerced or forced? If so, then that label might apply. But we've gotten to the place where, for the media and LE and the general public, the REAL standard of what constitutes trafficking doesn't matter anymore. The current reality is that anything related to prostitution is treated as trafficking. Even if the women involved are adults and are doing it willingly to earn a living and provide for their families. Truth unfortunately can never compete with hype.[/QUOTE]You're correct about truth being unable to compete with hype.
I suspect the real intent is to 1) scare mongers and 2) keep the taxpayer funds flowing. Hopefully the courts will intervene someday and say enough is enough. I doubt that will happen with current officeholders, regardless of party affiliation.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3825555][URL]http://wjla.com/news/local/3-arrested-human-trafficking-massage-parlors-md[/URL]
Saw this in the MD forums (hat tip to MPduration). Here are some takeaways from the story:
1. It happened right next door in MoCo and neighboring jurisdictions tend to work together on these kinds of things by forming task forces, etc. So, even though these kinds of things have always happened from time to time, I think it's not a bad idea to be extra careful in the current environment. With BP and CL gone, AMPs are some of the lowest-hanging fruit remaining.
2. The hardball investigative tactics used, including surveillance, dumpster diving, and questioning clients coming out of the AMPs.
3. The fact that, at least according to the media report, EVERY single one of the 40 guys they questioned admitted to illegal behavior. Really? WTF is up with that?!
4. The fact that, without a shred of evidence beyond the fact that they worked at an AMP, the report characterizes all the women as trafficking victims. Were any of them coerced or forced? If so, then that label might apply. But we've gotten to the place where, for the media and LE and the general public, the REAL standard of what constitutes trafficking doesn't matter anymore. The current reality is that anything related to prostitution is treated as trafficking. Even if the women involved are adults and are doing it willingly to earn a living and provide for their families. Truth unfortunately can never compete with hype.[/QUOTE]Regarding item #3, we all know that police can and do lie, its allowed and widely used to gather evidence on hunches or to meet some other agenda. I was in a situation where police were at an AMP when I arrived, greeted by the police was not expected, they asked for my I.D., I replied with why and no intent to provide it, the officer stated this location is known to be involved in illegal activity, I replied with I have been here many times and have had legit massages, which was true, I did not say all, but some were (LOL), he suggested I leave and not come back, I departed that day to return another. I never admit guilt to police and certainly would not jeopardize an AMP to them either.
From the article:
"The US Supreme Court has ruled in favor of digital privacy. In a 5-4 decision on Friday the justices decided that police need warrants to gather phone location data as evidence for trials. The Supreme Court reversed and remanded the Sixth Circuit court's decision ".
More here:
[URL]https://www.cnet.com/news/supreme-court-says-warrant-necessary-for-phone-location-data/[/URL]
[QUOTE=TomMcAn;3834431]From the article:
"The US Supreme Court has ruled in favor of digital privacy. In a 5-4 decision on Friday the justices decided that police need warrants to gather phone location data as evidence for trials. The Supreme Court reversed and remanded the Sixth Circuit court's decision ".
More here:
[URL]https://www.cnet.com/news/supreme-court-says-warrant-necessary-for-phone-location-data/[/URL][/QUOTE]This has no effect on mongers as I never heard of law enforcement taking the time and effort to use digital surveillance to round up mongers and prosecute them.
[URL]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/18/florida-police-arrest-277-including-cops-and-doctors-in-sex-sting.html[/URL]
Q.
[QUOTE=Quriusmrk;3856865][URL]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/18/florida-police-arrest-277-including-cops-and-doctors-in-sex-sting.html[/URL]
Q.[/QUOTE]Oct 2017 was before the BP shutdown. So that means the sting was probably done by posting several BP ads and then busting clients as they arrived.
While that's nothing new, and online ads are always something LEO can use, the fragmented nature of the current market makes that tactic less effective.
From the hobbyist side of things, the current environment means that even more homework is needed to counteract the increased risk.
[URL]https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2018/07/2-charged-with-running-prostitution-ring-in-loudoun-co/[/URL]
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;3857175]Oct 2017 was before the BP shutdown. So that means the sting was probably done by posting several BP ads and then busting clients as they arrived.
While that's nothing new, and online ads are always something LEO can use, the fragmented nature of the current market makes that tactic less effective.
From the hobbyist side of things, the current environment means that even more homework is needed to counteract the increased risk.[/QUOTE]I'm from Florida but on here as I'm doing my research prior to a visit to NoVA. The story is from Polk County home of the infamous Sheriff Grady Judd. Every informed hobbiest down here knows NOT to consider unverified providers from that county. Sheriff has a particular hardon for providers and hobbiests. He's a total grandstanding a-hole. His county is overrun with meth and other really serious crime but he focuses on this because its easy and plays well on TV.
Anyone, know what the verification is and how accurate it might be? Please share.
[QUOTE=Justforme;3885588]Anyone, know what the verification is and how accurate it might be? Please share.[/QUOTE]Not sure about CityG, but I learned from on a provider that the "verified" label on Eros just means you paid an extra fifty bucks (in addition to the base price) to have that advertising slapped across your profile pictures. You also pay extra to be advertised in a particular category, I. E. , busty, mature, redhead, etc. Based on these considerations, I wouldn't put much stock on a "verified" stamp on those ads.
Thanks.
I was not putting much into it just wanted to see if anyone knew for sure. So much BS out there.
[QUOTE=Pbarber307;3885808]Not sure about CityG, but I learned from on a provider that the "verified" label on Eros just means you paid an extra fifty bucks (in addition to the base price) to have that advertising slapped across your profile pictures. You also pay extra to be advertised in a particular category, I. E. , busty, mature, redhead, etc. Based on these considerations, I wouldn't put much stock on a "verified" stamp on those ads.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mallet70;3858188][URL]https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2018/07/2-charged-with-running-prostitution-ring-in-loudoun-co/[/URL][/QUOTE][URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/women-ordered-from-supplier-and-brought-to-virginia-for-prostitution-search-warrant-says/2018/07/10/6654c2d6-8479-11e8-8553-a3ce89036c78_story.html?utm_term=.15c097990ebe[/URL]
Jeeze, $30 a date? Latino men only? There should be a law against that :)