Craigslist Advertiser Reviews

My post got deleted. I felt it wasn't particularly argumentative, just responding "in kind" to what is apparently a "Senior Member" (maybe I missed titles).

I post information here based on personal experience. I hope folks do a search and see what I mean. Heck, I even posted something about one of my ATF UTR's, leaving town, who wanted some dates. I got no PM's. WTF am I supposed to do when I offer some Prime Rib to a group and no one wants it?

I posted my nearly sure-fire method for scoring off-work dancers at the clubs (but even IT requires some game).

I'm not here to become part of some pecking order, nor am I here to flame. I'm here to learn and give another perspective.

The subject here is CL. A poster claimed that MOST of the girls are street hookers with a computer. I disagree. MOST are not. Perhaps some POSTERS are, but I RARELY respond to an ad; I don't want to be lost in the fog of a bazillion other guys who do. I do things differently, because success in any worthy endeavor requires originality. From being curious, I once posted an ad as a girl with a pic from my personal stock; I wanted to understand, from the female perspective, what the responses are like. I got over 80 responses, MANY complete with names, business names and phone numbers, pictures (with wife and kids? Unbelievable...), some begging, many explicit, etc. I wanted to see what stood out. I got a handle on that; increased my success.

My single most successful CL coup was posting as a working girl leaving town, who wanted to give my "safe, upscale client list" to another girl; I got 8 responses from girls, 5 who were top shelf (FWIW-Cassidy and her type are NOT top shelf). Well, guess who the only guy who got referred was? Yup. Me. GREAT success, I tell you.

I, personally, wouldn't touch a SW, but I'm not married, so I don't have to go cruising to get my jollies, I can entertain. To each his own. I fear LE busts on the street, massage places, and high profile incalls, so I don't do them.

I've "done" CL for a long time. I met Barbie there almost 1.5 years ago (she is NOT recent there). I met Stacy before the accident, when she had all her teeth. I met "Hott Diana" when she was somebody else, before she bought that Gandy thing from the old Hott Diana. Before CL, I knew Phoenixxx Blacque (sp?) at ATS (two hours of Sunday morning bliss for $250). I knew Hot Terri and her sister. Heck, I was one of Kelly of Orlando's first dates, maybe date #4 or something. And those don't even make up 5% of the girls I've "known" in my hobby life.

I go way back, Chase, probably farther than you do. I posted on Decadent City. Did you? I remember the first day of TBD for Tampa. Do you?

I have found traditional p4p to be almost boring. Yes, you meet hot gilrs, but it gets repetitive. I want something different, the hunt is as enjoyable to me as the BBQ. So I now go places where, yes, it's a LOT more difficult, and YES, does require game, and not just a couple of C-notes and a cell phone. I guess I enjoy the seduction process. I've hunted AFF (150 guys for every fat chick, no more...), a wide variety of singles sites (yes, it costs maybe $30 for a couple of months, but big deal), Creative Loafing, tbo.com, the St. Pete Times personals, etc. I've had my successes and failures, but I enjoy the hunt.

So I've done CL since it first created a Tampa area, not just "erotic services", but W4M, M4W, and "casual encounters", too, using a variety of differing ads, MO's, and persona's. My monger friends in NYC gave me a heads' up a very long time ago. I have seen it morph over time. I can see how someone who has only been checking it out the last 6 mos. or so could clearly say it's SW's with computers; actually it seems more pimps than then actual girls, based on the wording of some of the responses I've gotten (I REFUSE to see a girl with a driver and a cell # that is not 813, 727 or 941; just some of my criteria to avoid pitfalls).

So, please, spare me the Senior Member stuff. Take each poster, old or new, and see what they can contribute. It's a big assed world out there. Often when folks take the time to listen, things can be learned.

Fair enough?

First of all, I should say that I have no idea what you said in your deleted post. You latest post seems to be a bit argumentative, but then you could say the same thing about mine. As you said in your first post "no offense" and mine was intended with the same spirit. We're just a bunch of guys having a friendly debate. Tossing in a "bullshit" here or there shouldn't be a capital crime. Its just calling it as we see it personally (albeit in a forceful manner). Hopefully you, like me, have thicker skin than that and can take someone disagreeing with you. I defended BB as a "Sr. Member" but you're right that it doesn't matter, new or old, before you call out any other member you should be prepared to back up what you say. And so far, I haven't seen you do that.

Now on to your latest post. I'm sure we're all duly impressed with your "resumé " and your "claim to game". But it still sounds to me like you're dancing around the issue. The original statement was about "[u]most[/u] CL gals" and not the selective few that you've been able to somehow screen down to using some vague "personal system". BTW, I'm not sure how posting an ad pretending to be a girl helps you understand the female perspective. Okay, it may help you do it differently but how do you know what stood out to you as a guy would be the same things a girl would really be looking for. All that really proves is our point that there are a lot of fake ads out there. Also, presumably BB's statement was about [u]Tampa[/u] CL gals since this is the [u]Tampa[/u] forum. I don't doubt IWannaBInAsia's experience in Phoenix as I too have heard good things about CL in other cities. Unfortunately, our fair Tampa seems to be a special case. Next, it was presumably about most CL gals [u]as of late[/u]. How it was in the "good old days" doesn't do any of us any good today. And finally there was that crucial qualifier "and the like" which covers all the one's with pimps that drive up the price like you mentioned, scammers like I mentioned and, while we're categorizing the various ways they can waste your time, how about ones harvesting e-mail addresses for spam lists and others that are really non-local and just trying to pitch rip-off webcam services.

Sure, there are SOME that may be worthwhile and maybe you have a magic way to weed through all that crap to get down to the 1-2% that might be worthwhile (though even you admit that takes a lot of work and patience), but when the worst ones are the ones spamming the site with their ads several times a day to say that the overall majority of ALL the ads that appear on the Tampa CL as of late are SW's or some other worthless form of provider seems pretty accurate to me.

BTW, I said that Barbie had "one aberrant recent appearance on CL". However, that's not the same thing as saying she never posted before because whatever she posted long ago is in fact "NOT recent". Another example of you either misconstruing or deliberately twisting what others have said. My point was that she is [u]not currently[/u] a [u]regular[/u] poster on CL and [u]not representative[/u] of the majority of the ads (how many hundred ads have appeared since she last advertised). The other names you also mentioned do nothing to disprove BB's contention or even answer my challenge for you to provide some current CL providers in Tampa that prove your claims. So you saw Stacey before the accident, she was still no raving beauty back then and again what does that do for any of us now given her current quality. Phoenixxx Blacque is a local celebrity who has advertised practically everywhere but the Tampa Tribune over the years. The days of getting 2 hours of f/s from her for $250 are long gone. Hot Dianna? Again, GONE and even replaced by a rip-off artist who uses her name. Kelly of Orlando? Hey, that's Orlando. We're still waiting for some local names.

So again my challenge to you is if you really have such great game and have come up with a way to find the best providers on the Tampa CL, then provide us a link to their CL ad and your review of what they provided and how much they will charge for it. Talk is cheap and so far we're not impressed. If what you say is true then that shouldn't be so hard to come up with even just 1 or 2 names and links and that will end this discussion.

[QUOTE=Scooter68]Does anybody have any info on this girl Kim...She posts all day long on CL but have never heard anything about her...Good or bad.

Any experiences out there?

[url]http://tampa.craigslist.org/ers/301290959.html[/url][/QUOTE]I was browseing through the boards when I came upon this post. I am in Missouri and I remember seeing this girls pictures on the StLouis CL earlier this year. She was working under a different name and her phone number at that time was linked to some really rotten reviews on TER. Quotes like "I should have stayed at home" and " Barely worth the effort". When word of this got around she left town pretty soon. I'm sorry I don't remember her name or number at the time. My old e-mails have been deleted.

Chase: what have you done for me for me to want to help you?

I offer advice from MY perspective. That is all I can do. I will not be handing out referrals to guys I have never met. I DO to guys I know, as they do for me. I HAVE offered several methods to sort through CL. I think if you teach a man to fish, he'll never go hungry, etc.

I have my method of utilizing CL and other sites. It looks like you and Sr. Member BB have yours. From what I can tell, my method seems to have results that exceed others.

There is a difference between a vulture and an eagle. A vulture waits for something to die, and they eat the carrion as a flock. An eagle seeks his prey, and does it alone. Big difference, one not too subtle.

I do not answer CL ads (I did for a couple of weeks long ago), so I don't have to deal with the crap other guys put up with; my choice. To some CL is just girls who advertise. But to me CL is also girls who do NOT advertise, but read; there are many, many of them. Those are my targets. I'll let you guys chase the girls who advertise along with the other hundreds of guys; your choice. Good luck! I suppose therein lies the difference: our perspective of what CL "is". I look beyond the ad nauseum daily dribble; others live for that crap, hoping upon hope *they* are the lucky ones to find that one true gem, going back to CL 10, 20, 30 times a day, seeing the same old crap. Not me. I track them down my way.

I have bona fides in the game. I mentioned just a smattering to establish them. And Kelly spent 80% of her time in Tampa, not Orlando-but I'm sure an established Senior Member knew that.

I offered a most excellent UTR who needed some $$$ before leaving town. But no one inquired, not even Senior Members. Oh, well. If that is what it takes to back up what I say, then you certainly missed a DD opportunity. Not my fault, dude. You had your chance.

Chase, you really should try thinking outside the box. Even Robert Frost recognized the benefits:

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

The Chronic, out.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]
BTW, I said that Barbie had "one aberrant recent appearance on CL". However, that's not the same thing as saying she never posted before because whatever she posted long ago is in fact "NOT recent". Another example of you either misconstruing or deliberately twisting what others have said. My point was that she is [u]not currently[/u] a [u]regular[/u] poster on CL and [u]not representative[/u] of the majority of the ads (how many hundred ads have appeared since she last advertised). [/QUOTE]

Actually, Chase, while not representative of the majority of the ads on CL, Barbie Love has been advertising there quite regularily for some time now. She's not the "hammer over the head" type of advertiser but shows up a couple of times per week.

In The Chronic's defense, I do believe this is what he was trying to point out. Weeding through the BS on CL isn't really all that hard if one's been mongering on the net for any amount of time.

I've not met one girl from CL who, after I did my screening and decided to see, ended up ripping me off. It might not have been the greatest session ever each time but it was always as advertised. I always came away feeling like I got my money's worth, even if we didn't click and really go to town on one another. I can't say the same for TBD, TER or Eros.

Can I count on CL to come through for me every day? Hell no. But the ones I've filtered out have been good girls at good prices.

I snipped the part where you said his mention of high profile providers from the past didn't do anything for the CL argument. Well, I don't think he was trying to say anything about CL at that point. Rather he was addressing your dressing down of him for not reaching the magical 25 posts, yet, and disagreeing with someone who has. He was just pointing out that he's been around for a while and anyone who's been doing the internet monger thing in the area since before the turn of the millenium will recognize those names and places. I think he was just pointing out he's been around these waters just as long as any of the rest of us who go back a few years.

Some good CL finds, right now are, the much maligned on CL, Sasha. She's got a sweet ass and is a nice DATY experience. Has a kitty that grips you like a Louisville Slugger, not to mention a talented mouth.

Barbie Love. See my recent review.

The provider formerly known as Kinky Camille, now going by Mandy. The only problem I've heard anyone have with this girl is that if you click with her and just let the session ride out on its own, doing whatever comes naturally at the moment and make it feel real for her... She won't let you leave. You litterally have to pry her off you and get out the door amidst her protests. My shortest "hour" with Mandy clocks in at over 120 minutes and she never asks for more. Granted, I took a break from her after missing some money in my pocket one time but now it's just not there for her to find.

Ginger in Largo. A little chubby but cute as a button, tight as a vice and a decent, safe incall. A little business like but for 100, who's complaining?

Anneke in Largo. Older but huge breasted and built. She's what I think a BBW should be. A larger but well proportioned woman with a tight tummy. Not fat by any stretch, just not petite or average sized. Just tall and broad. Again, good service. Not really GFE material but she'll make you feel good.

There's five, off the top of my head. Two who are bargain priced and you get what you pay for. Two who are decent priced and good looking. Barbie wins in looks and body but Sasha's performance is stellar. And, finally, one who is just a sick perverted freak that will rock your world if you let her.

But, yeah, I'd have to say that one has to do no more filtering of CL than they do any other board that allows escorts to advertise themselves.

This girls name is Cameron, I reviewed her last month on TER, BD, and Escorts,com. She must really be hungry to go this cheap. Let me tell you Boys you can't go wrong, She loves her work, kisses, snuggles, does it all except anal, really warm and cozy. Maybe a special will net you a little less, but she is offering hr @ that price. Maybe I can talk wife into going to beach so I can visit her, I'm a daytime player from Kissimmee who like to play in Tampa away from home. Serious I saw this girl @ $$.5 and would pay that again. She is a little rougher than pics but hey I saw her @ 9 in the morning. Feel free to Pm me for more info if needed, not sure what more i can tell you though.

Not sure if link will show

Posted 04/02 @ 9:02, cl, tampa, erotic, w4m,
[url]http://tampa.craigslist.org/ers/305040138.html[/url]

I'll add my two cents about CL...although my experience is limited...

Kinky Camille/Amanda Lee/Mandy-two times with her, and both times as advertised. Once you've done one time with her, she'll get really friendly and want you to hang out. She's got a few rough edges as far as looks, but she's a sweet girl and basically good looking. As far as the claim that she lifts money opportunistically...I never give a working girl a chance to do that, so I can't attest to that.

I have also seen the girl that used to advertise on CL known as Jamie (look up Karie (sp?) Gilkinson on *******). I was going to write a review but basically just forget. This was last year some time. It was as advertised...good time with a young cute girl.

CL is just like most other forms of mongering...if you screen well and don't just throw your money at the first thing that strikes your fancy, I don't think you'll be burned.

Then again, I'm probably the most careful, bargain-shopping, infrequent monger on this board, so maybe I'm just full of shit.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you guys still don't seem to be getting what I'm saying.

First, Mike, you open by talking about somebody who is "not representative of the majority of the ads on CL." What you and Chronic seem to be misreading is that I've [b]never[/b] said there weren't [b]some[/b] decent providers on CL. So why do you and Chronic keep changing the subject and coming back to that? What I was defending was BB's contention that [b]most[/b] of the ads were by assorted ne'er-do-wells. Neither of you have argued anything to contradict that basic contention. I hope you'll finally clearly concede that point because in some of your remarks you've already basically suggested much the same thing.

The only place we really may still disagree on is in how easy it is to seperate the winners from the losers. If they've been reviewed well elsewhere, like Barbie Love has, then no problem. Well, no problem except in noticing her ad in the flood of spam by all the other providers. Unfortunately, most of the ads are for girls who haven't been reviewed elsewhere or, if they have, have been revealed to be rip-offs (which at least lets you know to avoid them). If that were not the case, you wouldn't see so many inquiries on this site asking about various ads and more often than not either going unanswered or revealing the provider in question to be not worth the price. Case in point, this post by Defacer earlier just today: [url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=515368&postcount=150[/url].

But let's say that at least for some of the ads reviews can be found [b]some[/b]where. How do you know which ones are worth spending the time trying to find the reviews (particualrly when some seem to change their names as often as other people change their socks)? You say one does "no more filtering of CL than they do any other board that allows escorts to advertise themselves" but how many other sites let advertisers (and usually the worst ones) flood the site with 3-4 or more ads in a day? You also try to defend Chronic by saying what he was trying to point out was that "weeding through the BS on CL isn't really all that hard if one's been mongering on the net for any amount of time", but if you re-read his post you'll see that was exactly what he was arguing [b]against[/b]. So which is it? The problem is that he is being inconsistent in his remarks saying one thing at one moment and then seeming to argue the exact opposite the next.

Chronic has claimed at times that the ads can be screened and yet has yet to explain his own remarks. Namely, "it takes a frickin' ton of patience, digging, effort and time" and "I don't know why I fucking bother with CL anymore." (that I quoted earlier) and now "I do not answer CL ads (I did for a couple of weeks long ago), so I don't have to deal with the crap other guys put up with)." If most of the CL girls are not a waste of time than what crap is he talking about?

In fact ,if you look at what he's suggesting, you can clearly see he isn't really recommending sifting through the ads at all (or being a vulture as he puts it) but [b]placing[/b] ads and having girls respond to him or various other methods. Maybe they work, maybe they don't, maybe they work for him, maybe they take a lot of work too. I won't comment on his other methods. That's really a subject for a whole seperate debate. The point is that none of that involves responding to provider ads and, therefore, nothing at all to do with the BB's original point or the one I've been trying to make about the ones that [b]do[/b] advertise.

Okay he has his own methods which don't involve responding to provider ads. OTOH, you claim to have had some mixed luck responding to ads after screening them down considerably. Lets look at that.

If Barbie Love has been posting "quite regularly for some time now" and showing up "a couple of times per week", how come in their search going back at least a couple of months using either her name or each of her phone numbers turn up just that 1 ad from 3/14? Even worse, Anneke doesn't turn up at all. Sasha is a curious case. Her name gets just 2 hits over the last 2 months and neither of them were ads by her. One was an inquiry and the other a positive review. Presumably any ads she might have had were for some reason flagged and removed. Why if she delivers as promised did her ads get taken down, while so many others who don't are left up and what does that say about what is going on with that site? Ginger turns up a lot but none that seem to be the one in Largo unless you're talking about that one that has been spamming the site with her 100 roses offer and a 305 area code (and who was flagged as being a pimp by one of the other CL members) or the blonde with the 813 area code who also spams the site and claims to be 30 but looks a hell of lot older than that. Not looking too good so far.

Of those 5, only Mandy (if she is the one that goes by the handle winedine694u) appears to be a real lead of girls that actually advertise at least semi-regularly on CL (with a whole 5 ads over the last 2 months). Unfortunately, you failed to include her rates like I requested but I can always find that out for myself and at least I can now feel confident she delivers. So thank you very much for that.

A couple of other misc. remarks. First, about Chronic not reaching the magical 25 posts. You both entirely missed my point. I never meant to suggest that someone who wasn't a senior member couldn't be an experienced monger or that they were somehow less entitled to (politely) comment on others or disagree. All I meant to suggest was that someone who is a senior member and thus contributed to the board in that way deserves more than to have his remarks so summarily dismissed and simply labeled as bullshit without really adding anything to back it up other than some vague claims of experience which really did nothing to diminish the validity of what BB was saying. That is why I threw those exact words back at Chronic but I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.

Secondly, re: Chronic's latest excuse "I will not be handing out referrals to guys I have never met." I'm sorry, where did I ask for any referrals. Again I'm not talking about you coming up with names of girls you've found that respond to one of your ads or various tricks. I'm talking about girls who advertise themselves and thus all you need to do is post a link to that ad that is already public. No one is going to use you as a reference in that case sine I doubt any of them know you as "Chronic", nor do they need to use you as a reference because its a [b]public[/b] ad. Your "bonafides" over your years of mongering are all suitably impressive but they're all irrelevant to and do nothing to disprove BB's original remark about CL [b]advertisers[/b]. So you're either dodging the challenge or simply don't understand it.

[QUOTE=Fla Monger II]
CL is just like most other forms of mongering...if you screen well and don't just throw your money at the first thing that strikes your fancy, I don't think you'll be burned.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, CL needs study and research. You might need to check other boards if the girl shows all of a sudden. You do shopping when you buy a TV. It pays to spend time researching. Also, do not just jump in for that beautiful with that unbelievable offer. Remember [b]too good to be true most probably it is not true[/b]. Post requesting reviews from other members with identifying pictures of the provider especially if she is out of town though some might fool you by using your own area code. Still they will show up all of a sudden.
J
P.S.
I was writing this report and did not see “Chase Star”'s report which has good points. Changing name, phone, appearance, hair color, eye color (contacts), age,...etc. are not good signs. A good provider will not do this. Even if she used to be a good provider hiding more than likely will affect the service. She will be spooky, worried…etc. Definitely, this affects performance. Women are not like men if you want a good time. She has to feel comfortable.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]If Barbie Love has been posting "quite regularly for some time now" and showing up "a couple of times per week", how come in their search going back at least a couple of months using either her name or each of her phone numbers turn up just that 1 ad from 3/14? Even worse, Anneke doesn't turn up at all. Sasha is a curious case. Her name gets just 2 hits over the last 2 months and neither of them were ads by her. One was an inquiry and the other a positive review. Presumably any ads she might have had were for some reason flagged and removed. Why if she delivers as promised did her ads get taken down, while so many others who don't are left up and what does that say about what is going on with that site? Ginger turns up a lot but none that seem to be the one in Largo unless you're talking about that one that has been spamming the site with her 100 roses offer and a 305 area code (and who was flagged as being a pimp by one of the other CL members) or the blonde with the 813 area code who also spams the site and claims to be 30 but looks a hell of lot older than that. Not looking too good so far.

Of those 5, only Mandy (if she is the one that goes by the handle winedine694u) appears to be a real lead of girls that actually advertise at least semi-regularly on CL (with a whole 5 ads over the last 2 months). Unfortunately, you failed to include her rates like I requested but I can always find that out for myself and at least I can now feel confident she delivers. So thank you very much for that.
[/QUOTE]

Barbie Love rarely posts her name or number in her ads. She'll put up a picture and ask for e-mail first.

Sasha does not use her name in her ads anymore. She posts her picture. Someone who has it out for her will auto-flag any ad with her name in it.

Anneke doesn't use her name in her ads. She posts a picture.

Ginger posts neither her name or her picture. She has a 727 area code and states that she's near the intersection of Seminole and Ulmerton. She now only advertises when she isn't getting enough calls from the client base she built up from her initial daily ads.

Mandy is $200 or $250, I can't remember which. If she likes you, she'll drop you down to $100 a visit. She's been known to pick up her phone and call one of her regulars to take her out to somewhere she wants to go and end up giving them an all-night romp for free. It's happened to me and at least two others I've PMed with regarding her.

I'm, honestly, not trying to stir up anything with you, Chase... I even told Chronic in PM that you are usually pretty cool on the board and I'm not sure why you seem to be taking him so abrasively.

I think you summed it up best. We're all on the same game plan here.

I think we might just be targeting specific comments within the whole and wandering off on it and drifting out of context.

The single biggest reason why someone won't learn is ego.

Why the nit picking? Beats the heck out of me.

Does anyone know anything about "Mature Lisa"?

Mike,
Fair enough. My posts may have came off to you as "abrasive" or to Chronic as "nit picking" and perhaps they were, but there was never any real malice (or ego) involved. I'm just the type of person who prefers statements to be fair and accurate, again perhaps obsessively so, and I thought that BB's original comments were unfairly lambasted. In presenting my counterarguments, I probably stepped over the edge at times into sarcasm and for that I apologize.

I'll still maintain that the original comments were fair and accurate. That [b]most[/b] advertisements for erotic services on the Tampa CL are a complete waste of time is IMHO fairly indisputable. What is more fairly subject to reasonable disagreement is to what degree that doesn't matter and the ads can somehow be screened down to those few that [b]are[/b] worthwhile or that CL can be used successfully in [b]other[/b] ways altogether to score some worthwhile pussy. One might still disagree with those positions but would have to concede that others might find greater success with that.

I'm sure I would have let the whole thing go if, instead of initially dismissing BB's comment outright as bullshit, Chronic had said something like: "[b]Yes[/b] most CL ads are a waste of time and [b]Yes[/b] its hard to understand why someone would pay $400 for a complete unknown [b]BUT[/b] there are ways to screen down all the bullshit ads to the few that aren't a waste of time [b]OR[/b], to the degree the screening process is also a waste of time, there are alternative ways altogether to utilize CL that don't involve responding to hooker ads"

Fair enough?

BTW, to close out one last subject, if those providers don't post their names at CL then how will posting their names here help others see for themselves that there are some ads that regularly appear at CL for providers that are worth checking out? Perhaps it would have been better to post links to some of those ads or even posted some of their photos to help the rest of us simpletons learn exactly what to be looking for.

[url]http://tampa.craigslist.org/ths/306605337.html[/url]

She's in Land o' Lakes.

Found out from a friend that the #s on Cameron add were bogus, guess the add was bogus.

Sorry