"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Hernando;1685338][u]Car License Plates[/u]. This is one that is impossible to fake unless you have a set of stolen plates, which carries it's own risks obviously. The average college girl won't know what to do but a determined larcenous or evil SB can hire someone to trace your plates. Any PI can do it for $300[/QUOTE][b]Also think about whether your vehicle has other markings or such that could lead a clever & observant extortionist back to you![/b] Not just "vanity"plates, [b]but things like customised features, unique decals &\or "stickers" (including Private-Parking-stickers, Corporate-Parking-stickers, Country-Club-member-stickers, hospital/medical-parking-stickers, etc', etc') that might make it easier to "trace" you! [/b] Enterprise car-rental usually has really good business\corporate-customer rates ([b]but doesn't require you to rent through your business\corporation\employer or even to document or verify that it is, in fact, a rental for business\corporate purposes[/b]) + they have half-price-weekend (3-days required: either Fri' + Sat' + Sun' [u]or[/u] Sat' + Sun' + Mon') rates with high included-mileage; + they will pick you up & drop you off so you don't have to leave your personal car at their office-parking unless you want to. I know they require identity-verification documentation (copies of current credit-card-bills + 'phone- or utility-bills, all with your residential address) + substantial cash-deposit [u]if you want to rent with cash[/u] (they don't want to have to handle or keep alot of cash in their offices) & I've never needed or tried to use an anonymous pre-paid credit-card so I don't know what all "hoops" you'd have to jump through on that: [b]but if you can do that easily[/b] ([b]with a "covert" pre-paid credit[/b]-card) that might be cheaper in the long-run than risking being followed &\or identified because of your personal vehicle.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]1. I use a cheap burner phone paid for with cash, minutes added via cash. Untraceable, I believe. Tigg's comment about ease of texting is a good one, I have to admit. Mine is a flip phone, and so texting is laborious, but with the young babies, it is critical. I stash it in the same place every time, except for when I forget, and then I am panicked until I can find it again. This is my one weak spot. Oh well.[/quote]I prefer to use Google Voice. You can pick whatever number you like. It could be a number in a neighboring town or a city 3, 000 miles away. Whatever fits your cover. With GV, you can text through their website so you can text your baby discretely and easily without fumbling with a cheap burner phone. GV comes with very nice screening and blocking features. So you can block a rogue baby without having to get a new number and redo your sugar contacts. You can easily toggle on and off forwarding, so if you don't want to receive any calls / txts from babies then you just disable the call forwarding.

I have the GV app setup on my real phone and I mostly just use it for notifications. When the light blinks on my phone (no ringer or vibration) , I know I have a text from a baby and I goto the website to return the txt. And the GV app allows you to make calls on your regular phone with the GV number. This allows you to make anonymous sugar calls while still using your regular phone. You don't have to worry about leaving your burner in a coat pocket or turned on somewhere for your SO to find. And when you don't need to make any txts / calls to your baby for a while, just sign out or uninstall the GV app on your phone. And now your phone is completely clean. You could hand your phone to your SO and she would never find anything incriminating. Finally in an emergency situation where someone borrows / takes your phone unexpectedly or you lose it, you can wipe all your contacts and messages remotely on the website. So if they have happen to open the GV app on your phone, everything will be blank.

There are a couple of downsides to GV. You do need to be a little bit tech savvy and understand the GV app and your phone settings. If you don't know what you're doing, you could merge your GV SB contacts with your regular contacts on your phone. And you need to be aware when you have GV activated on your phone to make calls. You don't want to inadvertently call your SO with your sugar number!

But I've tried both methods, a burner and GV, and I prefer GV by far. Sometimes the best hiding place is hiding it in plain sight. It's also starting to become common knowledge that "cheating" husbands use burner phones, so it's going to get harder to explain the existence of one if you get caught. Whereas having your sugar number as a "shadow" on your real phone will actually raise less suspicions.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]3. I created a facebook profile, with no photo, that contains both my burner phone # and my Sugar email, so if the babies google either one, they will get an FB profile that is only what I want them to see. Most of the details are really me, so I don't have to remember every little thing, but they are also true of thousands of other dudes out there, so no possibility of tracking the Real Me down. Funny thing about FB, once I posted my fake profile there, I started getting friend requests from people I didn't know, and who clearly didn't know me, since I didn't exist. I accepted them all, thereby adding layers of "truth" to my fake page.[/quote]Like BigTigger, I don't closely tie my sugar phone and email to my Fake FB page. I don't want babies messaging each other. In fact with my fake FB, I have about 15-20 friends (60-70% babies) , most of them were friended without them knowing my sugar identity. I try to become friends with them discretely this way they don't know I'm watching them and I can see how stable they are. Girls who have over 200 friends are usually pretty easy to get on their friends list since they basically collect fb friends. I also use a cute profile photo to encourage requests. And I may change my city depending on who I'm trying to accept the request. So I have a legit looking profile that is pretty much untraceable. The email leads nowhere and no one knows it's a sugar daddy. They just think it's some random acquaintance whom they can't quite remember completely. But it allows me to get a glimpse into their world undetected. If they seem crazy or unstable, I move on.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]4. I send out a picture if requested, but it is one that I took myself with my iphone, and I only use it as a Sugar photo, so it can't be googled back to anywhere else. It astonishes me how many babies use pics that can be found elsewhere, thus revealing their real names, identities, etc.[/quote]I take a slightly different approach on this as well. I actually give them a publicly accessible photo. A photo that's public but can't be traced back to my real identity. For example, I put a few my photos on one of those "Hot Or Not" websites where people rate photos based on attractiveness. I then showed my SO how my photos rated and got a good laugh. But more importantly, I created a very plausible alibi down the line. If some crazed SB claims to have pictures of me, she'll just be able to show the ones that were on the pubic "Hot or Not" sites, which is seen by tens of thousands and that my wife already saw. I can say crazed SB must have got them off that site and is now trying to blackmail me. Those photos prove no personal connection.

Whereas I NEVER give a baby a candid picture. Never. Because if she shows your SO a picture of you that your SO doesn't recognize, then an argument could be made that you gave this girl a personal photo of yourself and there was some direct personal connection. How often do middle-aged men take photos of themselves in front of the mirror, which their wife never sees? Not often at all, so I try to avoid taking candid pictures which could bite me later on.

Otherwise, I pretty much follow all the other steps you have laid out to a "T". I agree I sometimes feel like a deep cover agent. I sometimes I have to catch myself not to sign messages with my "sugar" name when I'm in my regular day-to-day life. It's also why I sometimes just need to take a little break. Being in deep cover gets very exhausting and little mistakes get made all the time. And you don't want to have one of those little mistakes be the one that exposes you. So whenever I feel mentally fatigued, I try to take a little break. I haven't had any major close calls (except when my Backseat SB left her undershirt in my car last week! But I caught it right away). A few times I was a little shaky on telling a fake story when I was gone for the day. But that's pretty much it. So far I've done a good job of keeping my sugar life in a parallel universe which the SO can't see.

I list it, just saves me a headache later. I prefer to have someone who is cool with that and I don't want a bunch of arguing later if they find out. It also is one less thing I have to keep under cover. It also depends on which type of SB you are after. The ones I target, they appreciate that kind of honesty upfront. No to mention, as discrete as I have to be, I need the SB knowing, so she can work with me. What other reason would I have to not go into the hotel and leave at the same time, etc.

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1685290]I saw a comment on here the other day that said do not list that you are married or tell the SB that you are married.

What do you guys think of this. I put married on my profile. But now I am having second thoughts.

Revvo[/QUOTE]

I list it too. I think it helps to weed out the babies that are looking for a Real Life relationship. Anyone who responds to a contact after reading my profile saying that I'm married I feel has already accepted what the nature of things are going to be. Like Tigg, I find that they often help me with details and arrangements that might otherwise get me caught.

Plus, it reinforces my concept that this whole situation presents an opportunity to be honest and upfront with the babies, recognizing the one firewall is my true identity. But, really, what's in a name?

Scott

Unlike many of you, I've been single for several years now, and as such haven't felt the need to go to some of the lengths on security that you married folks have. For example, I use my personal cell for all my communications; I've felt no need for the burner phone type of scenario.

But after a long time in the single life, and with no plans to go down that road again, I find myself entering into a monogamous relationship (and happily doing so.) But it's one in which my new partner knows nothing of my playtime history, either in the sugar bowl or in the escort realm. I'm finding that there's a lot of housekeeping to be done. Cleaning out old emails (including in backups) , killing entries in the phone's contacts list, deleting links and clearing histories, etc. And I'm realizing that while I can clean out MY stuff, there's not much I can do about the people that have my contact info and could email, text or call out of the blue at inopportune moments. Changing my cell number now, after having the same one for years, would raise a red flag of its own. Mea maxima culpa, and feeling pretty stupid about it, but the bed is made and I have to lie in it.

So, for the guys who may be scoffing at the depth of security measures many of you are taking: I used to scoff too. And I'm realizing that going to that level of effort would have been more work at the time but would be saving me a lot of fear and work now. Never say never! You too could find yourself back in that real relationship again... and wondering why you're feeling the cold breeze blowing across your ass.

Congrats Cantwin.

It sounds like you can win after all. Relationships are so great, until they're not. Don't throw away your web contacts, you never know when you might need them again.

Perhaps you should share a smidgeon of your singles carousing with her so that any reemergence of unwanted attention would not be so hard to explain.

Best of luck! Will you be leaving the gang here?

I agree with John G that GV is the way to go.

I've switched to GV from a burner phone with different sim cards. As it happens, after years of artful (I thought) hiding the burner, the drawer where I kept it was searched by the warden for unrelated reasons."Look what I found," she said, burner in hand. Since the device had made legit appearances on a couple of foreign trips several years ago, its discovery didn't set off any alarms. I kept the secret second sim card somewhere else so I retrieved it and cut it up. The event made my blood run cold for a few minutes.

Re Cantwin's dilemma. If it were me, I think I'd claim a security breach / hack / virus requires a change of phone # and email and just trash the old stuff. Or maybe a buried encrypted file for the old stuff.

[QUOTE=BigTigger; 1684376]Create a email, name that sounds real and buy a prepaid phone that you only use for this hobby. Get one that you can text easily with, don't go too cheap. Only use the email for these type of activities. Never use an app to check your email, always login via the web.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]Tig, what's the downfall of using an app to check email?

Also, for email, I suggest using hushmail or gmail. Yahoo mail is too easy to track a location using the IP address in the header.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1686631]Tig, what's the downfall of using an app to check email?

Also, for email, I suggest using hushmail or gmail. Yahoo mail is too easy to track a location using the IP address in the header.[/QUOTE]My $.02, can't speak for Tig. An app appears on your phone, anyone can click on it and see your mail as the app typically stores your password (or at the very least you get asked "why do you have a mail app I've never heard of on your phone")?

Also. Be careful with having your phone or computer auto-save passwords. If she sees a. Dotwhatever email address and goes to that site and your username / password are already auto-filled, you are toast.

And for you apple iPhone users, be careful about software upgrades and iMessage if you text on your iPhone (even if its to bs with your buddies, not talk to a SM). Sometimes those upgrades will automatically turn on iMessage, then anyone on your apple I'd can see your texts.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1685052]I've posted about this before, but now seems like a good time to re-cap. Here's what I have done, in terms of a secret identity:

1. I use a cheap burner phone paid for with cash, minutes added via cash. Untraceable, I believe. Tigg's comment about ease of texting is a good one, I have to admit. Mine is a flip phone, and so texting is laborious, but with the young babies, it is critical. I stash it in the same place every time, except for when I forget, and then I am panicked until I can find it again. This is my one weak spot. Oh well.

2. I have a dedicated Sugar email, with an address that is a play on my SA name, so it seems legit. Needless to say, neither is even remotely close to my real name.

3. I created a facebook profile, with no photo, that contains both my burner phone # and my Sugar email, so if the babies google either one, they will get an FB profile that is only what I want them to see. Most of the details are really me, so I don't have to remember every little thing, but they are also true of thousands of other dudes out there, so no possibility of tracking the Real Me down. Funny thing about FB, once I posted my fake profile there, I started getting friend requests from people I didn't know, and who clearly didn't know me, since I didn't exist. I accepted them all, thereby adding layers of "truth" to my fake page. Also, I friend-requested my email contacts from my Sugar email, and a surprising number of them accepted, thereby increasing the "legit" look of my profile. Crazy, huh? It is heavily weighted towards 20-something females, however. Would some of you like to friend me to even the balance?

4. I send out a picture if requested, but it is one that I took myself with my iphone, and I only use it as a Sugar photo, so it can't be googled back to anywhere else. It astonishes me how many babies use pics that can be found elsewhere, thus revealing their real names, identities, etc.

5. I always pay cash, unless I am booking a room on the web, in which case I use prepaid gift cards purchased through my bank, Chase, which I buy with cash as well. I guess there is a trail through the bank that would ferret me out if my SO instigated divorce proceedings, but for the average baby, there is no way to find the Real Me here.

6. I keep a clean car, with no receipts, registration or anything else that has my name on it anywhere accessible. I have it all in the wheel well in the back.

7. I describe my work as something close to what I actually do, so that I can chat about it with some kind of intelligence, but not so close that I could be googled.

So far, in three years, the above has served me well. I fully recognize that I, myself, am the weak link in this whole chain, so I try to follow my "procedures" with absolute rigor. There have been some noteable, and blood-freezing lapses on my part, however. An unused condom in my dop kit when I've come back from a road trip; leaving my batphone in my coat pocket, turned on! ; leaving a list of contacted babies on a slip of paper on my dresser (fortunately my dresser is covered with slips of paper, but still, yikes). The only baby who, I think, knew my real identity was my former ATF, and honestly at that point I think I may have wanted to get caught, so we could finally spend our lives together for ever and ever like I knew we both wanted LOL! Well, we all know where that ended up. My brothers, try not to lose touch with reality, even though you may desire the fantasy. The Bowl, for most of us, is make-believe, with both parties agreeing to play their respective parts.

I think this covers it for me, but if I remember any more tactics, I will post.

Keep up the good work,

Scott.

PS. When ordering coffees at an M&G at Starbucks, for example, I always give my Sugar name, since they call it out when your order is done, or when making a reservation at a restaurant. It took several times for my "name" to roll off my tongue with anything resembling ease, but now I can do it in my sleep. Think of yourselves as a spy under deep cover in a foreign land where they will shoot you if discovered. The essence of it, I guess, is that if you can establish a compartment in your mind where you can live and operate normally while under cover, it will be easier. I had to smile while watching the movie "Argo". It had so many parallels to my own life in the Bowl. As has been said many times, never, ever, ever reveal your true self. There will only be tears and heartache ahead. Rather, fully understand that there are two of you, the Sugar you, and the IRL you, and the two should never meet, nor ever know the other one exists. You need to be able to vanish at a moment's notice.

Peace,

Scott[/QUOTE]This is very useful. Thanks.

I'll be around here, tho' I don't really see me playing in the bowl again. I'm too much of a hound to ever stop the occasional casual escort hookup, but I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that trying to do the ongoing sugar engagement while in a committed relationship is, for me, too fraught with peril. It really does require a level of commitment to security that I'm not confident I can maintain on a daily basis. If the lady in my life wasn't both sexy and highly sexual, I might look at it differently.

This game we all play isn't binary, and it isn't zero-sum. The reasons we do it, what things we're comfortable with and the levels to which we each will go to participate are a constantly-changing continuum. Simply, the LOE / ROI calculation has changed for me. But if the shit hits the fan, I'll probably be back.

PF HCB

Is gone. She was not loving, romantic, or a good sex provider so it is all for the best. She was a sure thing though.

3 Pots

SDFM #1 GPS fired. Too pecuniary talking about money for gas, for sitters, and for pussy. A Nando 1.

SDFM #2 flaked M&G earlier this week. Young HCG 7/7/8 very doable, super loving personality. Never called back in spite of reassuring words and actions. Go figure? I guess she is out for free meals. Why feed me a line of BS after the meal if I wasn't her type?

SA #1 M&G today 9/9/7 AA HCB She is a SB virgin and was very nervous. She had plans with her friends after a midafternoon meet and said she might call for later. We will see. She is very hot! I hope she works out but I give it a 30 % chance of a call back.

SA Pot #2 I texted back and forth. She is interested but is a polyamorist. She has a live_in with an open relationship and is seeking another couple of guys. She said she doesn't believe in Monogamy. If I wanted a prostitute I would get one.

Speaking of : I saw one of my favorite working girls for some maintenance and it was lovely. I think I might go back to my old standard.

AM #1 Is fading. She lives too far away and has an incredibly impossible schedule for the two of us.

And finally,

AM #2 Is fading as well for the same reasons.

So unless this AA HCG gives me a call back I am back to the drawing board.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1685052]I've posted about this before, but now seems like a good time to re-cap. Here's what I have done, in terms of a secret identity:

So far, in three years, the above has served me well. I fully recognize that I, myself, am the weak link in this whole chain, so I try to follow my "procedures" with absolute rigor. There have been some noteable, and blood-freezing lapses on my part, however. An unused condom in my dop kit when I've come back from a road trip; leaving my batphone in my coat pocket, turned on! ; leaving a list of contacted babies on a slip of paper on my dresser (fortunately my dresser is covered with slips of paper, but still, yikes). The only baby who, I think, knew my real identity was my former ATF, and honestly at that point I think I may have wanted to get caught, so we could finally spend our lives together for ever and ever like I knew we both wanted LOL! Well, we all know where that ended up. My brothers, try not to lose touch with reality, even though you may desire the fantasy. The Bowl, for most of us, is make-believe, with both parties agreeing to play their respective parts.

As has been said many times, never, ever, ever reveal your true self. There will only be tears and heartache ahead. Rather, fully understand that there are two of you, the Sugar you, and the IRL you, and the two should never meet, nor ever know the other one exists. You need to be able to vanish at a moment's notice.

Peace,

Scott[/QUOTE]And what undercover operatives do. The compartments, deceptions, and protocols are identical. Sometimes I wonder if the hobby isn't a way for frustrated spies to live out the excitement of maintaining a double identity and carrying out secret missions.

Took the words out of my mouth.

[QUOTE=HighCotton; 1686928]My $.02, can't speak for Tig. An app appears on your phone, anyone can click on it and see your mail as the app typically stores your password (or at the very least you get asked "why do you have a mail app I've never heard of on your phone")?

Also. Be careful with having your phone or computer auto-save passwords. If she sees a. Dotwhatever email address and goes to that site and your username / password are already auto-filled, you are toast.

And for you apple iPhone users, be careful about software upgrades and iMessage if you text on your iPhone (even if its to bs with your buddies, not talk to a SM). Sometimes those upgrades will automatically turn on iMessage, then anyone on your apple I'd can see your texts.[/QUOTE]

I was in her area the other morning. I got a room and called her up on her way to work. Told her the hotel and room number and said I'm here waiting for you. She seemed caught off guard for a second, then got herself together. She took a detour on the way to work at was at the room in 20 minutes. When she walked in, I was sitting on the chair completely naked. She laughed and said "you ok", I said,"yep, just waiting on you". As she walked over to give me a kiss, I guided her face between my legs and she was off to the races.

So here she is, in her business attire, fresh out of the shower, on her knees slobbing away. Before it was over, we did multiple positions on multiple pieces of furniture. I pretty much man-handled her the entire time. This was a bit of a departure from our first few times together. She came 3 times in less than 40 minutes. We rested, she showered, took some calls and headed in to work with a smile on her face and with her legs still trembling some. She called me later and just raved at how she loves a man that knows what he wants and takes charge. The more I led her around, gave her instruction the wetter she got. Not quite Dom / Sub, just a woman who like an assertive man.

Next time we met she had a gift for me that cost almost $300. Wow, I was impressed and still marveling at my luck. Again, I have no idea how she ended up on a SD site, but I'm glad I found her.

We are averaging once a week and we are scheduled for 2 overnights next week. I'm paying for 1/2 and she's paying for 1/2.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=Blak Casper;1680322]Good report, hold on to her as long as you can, I've had a few over the years that fit this description that I bailed on after awhile for one reason or another. Though they didn't come from / through the sugar world, in your case as long as she doesn't try to put you on "boyfriend / faithful / exclusive" status ride it as long as you can, haha.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bunker Buster;1687968]Sometimes I wonder if the hobby isn't a way for frustrated spies to live out the excitement of maintaining a double identity and carrying out secret missions.[/QUOTE]Bunk,

I often think this as well. It adds to the thrill of it all. Well, that, and the sex with 20 somethings!

Scott

I've been on SA for about a week now and am making some progress. I am away from my home turf for a few months for work, so my original purpose was to see if I could find a SB here for a short term arrangement. I put 10-12 lines in the water. I have a couple of nibbles that may not turn out to be anything. However I have two good leads that I hope are going to work out.

Pot #1 I mentioned in another post is a 33 year old MILF, divorced and lonely. She was seemingly unfamiliar with the whole SD / SB relationship, and in my first contact told me she was canceling her profile, but did give me her email address. In her first email she ased me what I was looking for on the site and I sent back a polite thoughtful note about wanting to meet someone and enjoy there company, even if it was not a traditional relationship. Whatever I said struck a chord. We emailed back and forth a few times and then I gave her my number. We have been texting daily and are set to meet Tuesday evening. I originally thought that I was just flirting with her and this would go nowhere, but based on the temperature of a few of her texts, I am up to over 60% confidence. I will keep you posted.

Pot #2 is actually from my home area and contacted me first. I wasn't going to start looking for anyone there until I was closer to the end of this project and ready to go home, but I responded to her. She is a 27 year old AA hardbody, employed, graduate degree. Again, slow start via email and then when I gave her a number to text, it has taken off. We have had long conversations about interests, philosophy, travel and the nature of these relationships. AA is not my usual choice, but I am intrigued as she is beautiful and seems very smart. We have agreed to meet for drinks when I get home. I think that if we click and if the allowance expectations are not unreasonable, she is 80% in the bag and could be a keeper. My only worry is that she may turn out to be afflicted with GPS, as she is obviously bright. We haven't touched on finance yet. Won't be able to close the deal on this one for a couple of months.

My key observation from these two ladies of this is that use of texting is vital. I think in the future I am going to implement a suggestion I saw here earlier and just include the number on the second or third email. I have always had a burner phone, just setup a google voice number. I like the ability to use my smartphone, a little uneasy with the fact that in google's server my actual phone number is linked to my new play number. The anonymity of the burner phone is nice. Texting through GV is also a little slower than normal. I am going to experiment with this, haven't decided if I will stick with GV or not.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo; 1688699]I've been on SA for about a week now and am making some progress. I am away from my home turf for a few months for work, so my original purpose was to see if I could find a SB here for a short term arrangement. I put 10-12 lines in the water. I have a couple of nibbles that may not turn out to be anything. However I have two good leads that I hope are going to work out.

Pot #1 I mentioned in another post is a 33 year old MILF, divorced and lonely. She was seemingly unfamiliar with the whole SD / SB relationship, and in my first contact told me she was canceling her profile, but did give me her email address. In her first email she ased me what I was looking for on the site and I sent back a polite thoughtful note about wanting to meet someone and enjoy there company, even if it was not a traditional relationship. Whatever I said struck a chord. We emailed back and forth a few times and then I gave her my number. We have been texting daily and are set to meet Tuesday evening. I originally thought that I was just flirting with her and this would go nowhere, but based on the temperature of a few of her texts, I am up to over 60% confidence. I will keep you posted.

Pot #2 is actually from my home area and contacted me first. I wasn't going to start looking for anyone there until I was closer to the end of this project and ready to go home, but I responded to her. She is a 27 year old AA hardbody, employed, graduate degree. Again, slow start via email and then when I gave her a number to text, it has taken off. We have had long conversations about interests, philosophy, travel and the nature of these relationships. AA is not my usual choice, but I am intrigued as she is beautiful and seems very smart. We have agreed to meet for drinks when I get home. I think that if we click and if the allowance expectations are not unreasonable, she is 80% in the bag and could be a keeper. My only worry is that she may turn out to be afflicted with GPS, as she is obviously bright. We haven't touched on finance yet. Won't be able to close the deal on this one for a couple of months.

My key observation from these two ladies of this is that use of texting is vital. I think in the future I am going to implement a suggestion I saw here earlier and just include the number on the second or third email. I have always had a burner phone, just setup a google voice number. I like the ability to use my smartphone, a little uneasy with the fact that in google's server my actual phone number is linked to my new play number. The anonymity of the burner phone is nice. Texting through GV is also a little slower than normal. I am going to experiment with this, haven't decided if I will stick with GV or not.[/QUOTE]The biggest issue with GV is that you can't send or receive pics. So many want to send pics thru text instead of email.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1688743]The biggest issue with GV is that you can't send or receive pics. So many want to send pics thru text instead of email.[/QUOTE]Pot #2 sent me some pics today using GV. I had the option selected to forward texts to email and it did and I could view the pics there. Downside was I got 50 emails (one for each text she sent me during a long conversation.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;1688772]Pot #2 sent me some pics today using GV. I had the option selected to forward texts to email and it did and I could view the pics there. Downside was I got 50 emails (one for each text she sent me during a long conversation.[/QUOTE]Sprint and a few other carriers are slowly supporting GV MMS. So if your SB uses Sprint, she'll be able to send you pictures directly to your GV number and it will appear as an email attachment to your associated gmail address. But otherwise, yes you have to tell them to email the pictures instead. It does make things cumbersome sometimes and trying to explain why your phone can't accept pictures. But on the other hand if you're using a burner phone, it's also not wise to keep suggestive pics of girls on your phone lest your SO discovers your burner. So I prefer to keep my phones pic-free and always have the pics flow-through anonymous email.

As for texting with GV, if you're near a computer, just use the GV website to text. It's much faster than using a phone and probably will draw less attention. Obviously just don't leave the browser window open if you walk away.

I also use GV for myself, it is pretty easy to use and for andriod you can hide the app inside setting, when people ask I can say it is one of the app that came with the phone. I clear all the GV message in my phone daily, no need to keep them there since you can go to the GV website and get all you message there. As for pic, I can get pic and it will go right to my email, still can't send pic yet but I m pretty sure it will be fix soon.

I also score on my second SB today, a 20 why / o white girl in VA. Found her in sd4m, after a few email and couple day of text we met up on Sunday for lunch. Same girl from the pic, very pretty, lovely eye but about 25lbs heavier. Everything went well and I can tell she had never done anything like this before (or she is a very good actor and fool me well). After I told her what I want and ask her how I can help, she couldn't tell me how much she really wants so I ask her is there any bill that you need help to take care of. She told me about her car payment, which is $$$ a month. I told her I can take care of that if we can meet once a week and she gladly accept. Next thing you know we went to a near by motel and spend the whole afternoon together. So 4 hour later she said she has to go, needs to be back before 7. She got dressed and gave me a kiss goodbye. At this point I realize I haven't give her the allowance yet and she was already out the door. So I asked her to come back and took care of her. Finalize some detail and scheduled our next meet.

Hey guys, what's the going rate on that site for a few hours a night with a hot girl. 8/10 range?

[QUOTE=Wnde8;1689336]Hey guys, what's the going rate on that site for a few hours a night with a hot girl. 8/10 range?[/QUOTE]Dude,

I can see by the tone and content of your question you have not read all that far back in this thread, and so would be willing to forgive you, but you clearly have the entirely wrong idea about the Bowl. It is not an escort service, despite what some of the tongue-in-cheek posts might lead you to believe.

I suggest you go back to the beginning post, ground zero, and spend some time reading up. There is almost four years of intel here, and many many more years of accumulated wisdom that anyone would be willing to share, once you have paid some dues, my brother. The Club does not discriminate, but newbies need to show some respect for the unique nature of this particular pursuit.

Not trying to be a dick-head, but this is not for everyone, is not easy, nor fast, and is not just about the bennies. I have spoken to any number of SBs who tell me how turned off they are by guys who contact them with an aggressive pay-for-play approach. If that's your game, you will be sent down to the minors in a heartbeat. Think of this as real life, but with a few mutually-understood short cuts.

Scott

Just to add to what Scott said. It be hooves you to take your time with this. Look carefully at what these experts have to say. Because this is a lot more than just the poontang and the cost. There is quite a bit of risk involved also.

Step carefully

[QUOTE=Revvo;1690047]Look carefully at what these experts have to say.[/QUOTE]I don't think anyone here is an expert. We're just a collection of accumulated experiences. And it's in a newbie's best interest to take advantage and read up on all the experiences posted in this thread. You'll see there's quite a few different approaches to the Sugar Bowl, but the one commonality is that there is no easy path and there are pitfalls everywhere.

This is a patient man's game. Most SBs are straddling the line between normal society and the amoral netherworld. If you bark too loud in many cases you'll scare them back to normal society. Speak too softly and they'll roll you with GPS. It's about striking that right balance, not just with your money but how you approach them and your attitude. Unlike with escorts, SBs can and will say "No'. Part of the fun of this pursuit is that since the girls can say "no", it's more rewarding when you actually get them to say "yes". And getting to the point where you're banging a 20 HYC in the FC takes a lot of "Yes"s.

"Yes" for the initial contact.

"Yes" on exchanging pictures and email.

"Yes" that she liked your picture (or found it acceptable)

"Yes" on exchanging phone numbers.

"Yes" to basic arrangement details.

"Yes" on a M&G.

"Yes" on the financials details of the arrangement

"Yes" on intimacy details of the arrangement.

"Yes" on scheduling on a time / date for the FC.

"Yes" on actually showing up to the FC on the day of

All those are pretty much the minimum amount of "yes" hurdles required to bag a SB. A breakdown in anywhere in that chain of "Yes"s can pretty much bring the whole thing down and have the entire thing a wasted effort. If you want a quick and an easy lay, go with escorts. With escorts, they just have one "Yes" hurdle. As long as you give them their required "donation", they'll bang you sight unseen until you show up at the hotel door.

Now once you get things going with a good SB, it can be one of the best things in the world. But it's a lot of work and you pretty much have to enjoy (or at least tolerate) the pursuit because it can feel unending at times. And there's some very real risks involved. I've seen guys who successfully mongered in the escort / AMP world for 10-20 years, get taken down in the sugar bowl after 6. 18 months because of a psycho, identity exposure, emotional involvement, or STD.

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1690278]This is a patient man's game. Most SBs are straddling the line between normal society and the amoral netherworld. If you bark too loud in many cases you'll scare them back to normal society. Speak too softly and they'll roll you with GPS. It's about striking that right balance, not just with your money but how you approach them and your attitude. Unlike with escorts, SBs can and will say "No'. Part of the fun of this pursuit is that since the girls can say "no", it's more rewarding when you actually get them to say "yes". And getting to the point where you're banging a 20 HYC in the FC takes a lot of "Yes"s.

"Yes" for the initial contact.

"Yes" on exchanging pictures and email.

"Yes" that she liked your picture (or found it acceptable)

"Yes" on exchanging phone numbers.

"Yes" to basic arrangement details.

"Yes" on a M&G.

"Yes" on the financials details of the arrangement

"Yes" on intimacy details of the arrangement.

"Yes" on scheduling on a time / date for the FC.

"Yes" on actually showing up to the FC on the day of

All those are pretty much the minimum amount of "yes" hurdles required to bag a SB. A breakdown in anywhere in that chain of "Yes"s can pretty much bring the whole thing down and have the entire thing a wasted effort. If you want a quick and an easy lay, go with escorts. With escorts, they just have one "Yes" hurdle. As long as you give them their required "donation", they'll bang you sight unseen until you show up at the hotel door.

Now once you get things going with a good SB, it can be one of the best things in the world. But it's a lot of work and you pretty much have to enjoy (or at least tolerate) the pursuit because it can feel unending at times. And there's some very real risks involved. I've seen guys who successfully mongered in the escort / AMP world for 10-20 years, get taken down in the sugar bowl after 6. 18 months because of a psycho, identity exposure, emotional involvement, or STD.[/QUOTE]JG,

This is one of the more well-said descriptions of the path to success, and very real pitfalls, in the Sugar Bowl, and the essential difference between escorts and babies. Even if an SB said "yes" to you, it does not mean she automatically will say "yes" to me, regardless of the amount of sugar offered. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the Bowl.

Scott

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1690047]Just to add to what Scott said. It be hooves you to take your time with this. Look carefully at what these experts have to say. Because this is a lot more than just the poontang and the cost. There is quite a bit of risk involved also.

Step carefully[/QUOTE]Thanks! No major risk on my part though because I'm not in a relationship at the moment and am pretty good about making sure my accounts payable always has a higher balance than my receivables.

Have you guys gone over live-in relationships? If so I'll try and hunt the info down in this thread; don't really have time to read the whole Vol 1. 30 at the moment though.

[QUOTE=John G Smith;1688881]It does make things cumbersome sometimes and trying to explain why your phone can't accept pictures. But on the other hand if you're using a burner phone, i.[/QUOTE]Explanation simple.

" Yes I know it is a hassle for you to email me your pics, but I turned of pictures because I travel abroad frequently. As you know ATT (etc) charges and arm and a leg for data and mms if I am in Europe / Asia / so I got home to a big surprise. A BIG FAT bill. So I learned my lesson and just turned it of totally. Mmm if you have a passport eventually I can take you to. London. Rome. Paris. Rio if you want to throw it is as a 'bone' "

That works as a charm.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1690340]JG,

This is one of the more well-said descriptions of the path to success, and very real pitfalls, in the Sugar Bowl, and the essential difference between escorts and babies. Even if an SB said "yes" to you, it does not mean she automatically will say "yes" to me, regardless of the amount of sugar offered. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the Bowl.

Scott[/QUOTE]Damn Scott! There is a challenger to the most eloquent poster on this thread! One of the best posts ever John! I would also add that even though you get through all those "yeses" one or multiple times, it doesn't mean you are going to get a yes from the same Baby every time. Evidently that thing they have that we desire so much, also makes them a fickle creature.

Darn, I guess that's the disadvantage of getting a huge discount using "sugar" instead of paying per hour.

How many girls are you having to exchange messages with before you get a yes?

[QUOTE=Wnde8;1689336]Hey guys, what's the going rate on that site for a few hours a night with a hot girl. 8/10 range?[/QUOTE]The best advice that I ever received from a Brother in the forum was: 'Remember that all of these women are fucking for money! '

That being said, there is no real difference between a escort and a sugar baby. Except for in the mind of those willing to engage in the worst form of deception: self deception. So, go down through the list of questions. And you receive a yes answer to them. In the end you pay them money. Bottom line. End of story. Period. When they leave with your splooge dripping from all three holes, no matter how eloquent you rap has been; or how well you have rocked their world (or faked it without your knowledge). They leave the encounter with money. They have just fucked for money. Straight up garden tool!

Sugar Babies are just garden tools with a different marketing plan. And the gauntlet we must all run in the sugar game is simply a method that allows them to choose who they wish to fuck. It does not change the fact that they are fucking for money! Play the game! Love the pussy! Do not love the garden tools.

Everyone here has different methods that work for them. They all work because the garden tools are all different. And we are ALL fucking! Find the methods that work for you. My advice Mr. Wnde8 is to RTFF! Put some mother fucking work in! Learn your market. Decide where you wish to enter and begin the negotiations with the garden tools in your area or beyond post haste. There is no substitute for playing the game.

Go balls deep; Go HAM and prosper,

SubCmdr Out!

What techniques tools, and strategies have you guys employed to reduce the flake factor. One thing I do is to avoid the real young ones who are just entering the bowl.

They appear to be the most flakiest of all flakes. Also there appears to be a phase that many of them go through where they have entered the bowl and the discussions but have not actually fucked for money yet. These almost certainly will get cold feet and flake a time or two before they go back and go through with it.

Also look for someone who has some responsibility already. Real job, really going to college etc.

I have also found that the same baby can be a flake now but in the future may not be a flake. So follow up don't burn bridges and above all be patient. I have learned much about patience from this game.

What do you guys do?

Revvo

Just the illusion is given it is different.

Emailed with a new one on SA. She wanted to take it to Y messenger.

The Yesses are being worked one by one. Yes she wants to know exactly what I will do for her.

And right between a message I get this one.

"got your other email. I can't just drive up and stay the night. Would like to get to know you a little before that."

Now I not emailed her about her driving up, since she is close, and staying the night. So she is talking to me and atleast another.

See Hernando. It is all an illusion, a real life game to make our toes curl the best way.

"never give up Never surrender"

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1691546]The best advice that I ever received from a Brother in the forum was: 'Remember that all of these women are fucking for money! '

That being said, there is no real difference between a escort and a sugar baby. Except for in the mind of those willing to engage in the worst form of deception: self deception.

Sub Cmdr.

I agree with your basic premise. I think there is a nuance that you may not have considered that does create a small difference, which is founded upon your second sentence above. I think you were referring to the self deception of the SD; I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.

I've been out of the SA world for a while. Content with my 2 current AA HCBs that have been taking more of my time than I really had available to give. Decided to jump back in about month ago due to a little bit boredom and a little bit curiosity if the grass was really greener. Some of you guys on this forum really make it hard to stay satisfied with the status quo, with all of your great stories and all.

Anyway, been playing the game with a few new pots. Nothing spectacular as of yet. One was definitely a Nando 1 that took me home with her after the first M&G this week. Limited oral action then marginal FS. Nothing really special. It was a quick in and out and I will not repeat Another 21 yr old HCB has scheduled 2 M&Gs with me so far and backed out of both of them at the very last minute. But still stays in touch via txt and still has my interest. Go figure. I should have learned my lesson by now.

The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;1692019]I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.[/QUOTE]Mr. Dsprdo,

The key to success as a SD is not to treat the SB as a garden tool. I get that! But one must always remember that a Sugar Baby has a garden tool inside of her just waiting to get out. I would like to remind my fellow Brothers under deep cover not to forget they are playing a role. So, while there is temptation to feel real emotion, until you remove the money it is not real emotion just good business. That alone will help all current, new and future SD's avoid many of the pitfalls outlined in this forum.

Leave your splooge dipping from all of their holes gentlemen!

SubCmdr out!

[QUOTE=AliasSM; 1692170]The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.[/QUOTE]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1692389]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.[/QUOTE]Yes my ATF gets regular $500/$1, 000 and more from sd's she has met. This also reflects what the comment SubCmdr referred to. It is a game! I can see her on a regular basis for a lot lot lot less. The ones she has gotten $500, $1, 000 and one time $3, 000 from don't interest her, there her garden tool nature comes out " I will 'do him' because my tuition is due". But since I have played a better role than these guys, she keeps telling me I am fun, interesting ext. So I play along thus reducing my cost per photon torpedo, and exposing her to unknown planets and cultures.

It all starts with how you approach her. And first contact is important, feel them out how the want to be assimilated with the great unit. And then adapt you discovery along that way.

Never give up Never surrender

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1692389]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.[/QUOTE]Maybe. But I know one SB pretty well that have an out of town visitor come in and take her on a 500 shopping spree with no request to go to the FC. The crazies are out there.

She may be trying to negotiate, I agree, but either way I'm moving on. No patience for the GPS fever.

For the guys making mid 5 figure incomes-do you guys exaggerate the income you make or put the actual amount?