"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I'm meeting two POT tomorrow for coffee. I have much better game plan after reading the thread. Thanks for sharing all of this wonderful information.

I had a very solid run this summer and I'm by no means a player. Reasonably attractive and put together, sure, but not winning any fitness awards. What worked for me was honesty, directness, but also (gasp) actually getting to know and show interest in the women. You learn pretty quickly how to weed out the ones that will waste your time. Agree with everyone else that asking about amount early is usually a sign of trouble. A reasonable amount of chat over the SA site or email, followed by a Coffee m&g was always the most successful for me. And in many cases I would go into it with no expectations and find myself pleased with the results. And if not, you just decide to roll with that too. I also had nothing to lose, so I found it easy to not be desperate or needy. That attitude goes a long, long way.

To be fair, I also choose my pitches, I don't swing at fastballs because I know I probably won't hit them. Far happier to wait for a nice curveball. And again, avoid the screwballs.

Finally. And I know this goes against the prevailing wisdom of some around here, but don't be cheap or come off as cheap. Be firm on your price, but also recognize that if you roll up in a luxury car and dress well, there's a reasonable expectation that you have the cash to share. I think the lower amounts really come into play with repeat visits and more established arrangements.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2610102]Also, as an aside, I have to respectfully disagree with the approach you descibed. At least for me, the approach you descibed sounds a lot like my approach from middle school to junior year in college. All it ever got me was a one way ticket to the friendzone.

Based on my experience, if you use that approach, all it will net you is atractive company for a meal youll be paying for. If the girl is relatively smart she will search for what you bought online and realize you paid a third of what you told her you paid for it. If its junk, she will smile and then trash it when she gets home, and then call you again when she is hungry or bored. Then the money you spent on that gift will have gone to complete waste since it wont buy you any real goodwill from her.

I've found that telling pots what you're looking for up front during the m&g is best in terms of time and cash. Of course there is a fine line between coming off as direct and confident, versus coming off as a rude self centered pig. The former comes with lots of time talking to women and actually being confident in person while being nice. The latter comes off as being an uneducated, adolecent or childish.

If you don't have the time or energy to hit on ladies at the bar, take some public speaking classes. The skills required for both have significant overlap. The added bonus is that it gives you a valid excuse to be away from your SO while also being potentially good for you personally and professionally.

Just my two cents though. Take it for whatever its worth.[/QUOTE]I think you're right that honesty is the best policy. In both of my meetings, I panicked and gave the amount I normally paid for escorts. I need to stick to my guns.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2610778]
Finally. And I know this goes against the prevailing wisdom of some around here, but don't be cheap or come off as cheap.
[/QUOTE]It might go against the wisdom of some you've read here, but it is a key concept to not only sugar babies but game in general, even in civy dating. When meeting women anywhere, giving the impression that you're a Walmart door greeter counting foodstamps and binding them to a set discount price is only going to lead to lousy, low rent pussy. They are the only ones desperate enough to accept that.

Coming off as cheap will never work to your advantage. Come off like you can afford the stars and the moon if she turns out to be worth that. Reserve the right to final judgement of value. Anything you agree to up front is going to set boundaries on what you receive. If the announcement of a particular amount has been made, she's already decided in her mind what she is willing to do for that.

Tap into her mind and her emotions and let her become genuinely attracted to you. She is attracted to the confidence you have in yourself -- if you don't have that, find it first, otherwise you're limited to escorts that tell you what you want to hear.

The more she is genuinely attracted to you, the more she will enjoy sex and not particularly care about what she's getting at the end of it as much as whether she will see you again.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2610749]Ftp, check your email, not pm. Just sent a you a message.

Also there was a debate on this forum a while back about sharing info on babies. That debate also has good pros and cons about why we should and should not be sharing info.[/QUOTE]I'm in a local group started here -and after an initial flurry of "do you know - ? Nothing. So I'm not sure guys want to share so much. There is also the prevailing requirement to trade girls. For me, currently only seeing one SB and not shopping due to SO constraints, I can not contribute so much. I do agree that newbies who have not established bona fides should not have access to a shopping list compiled by hard working mongers. So -a good thought but not so effective it seems. Publicly discussing individuals is fraught with hazard since girls can stalk this site and glean insider info-so most of it should be off site.

I get email blasts from SDFM in which the age range that SBs desire are almost all under 40. SA doesn't list that. So what happens with us older than 40 guys, is that we get the slimmer pickins unless the SB can not find anybody under 40 who is interested in them. It's amazing that 50-60+ yr old guys can get as much pussy as we do. Money talks. The ones who list age requirement as 0 to 80 are usually the UTRs or escorts. "Normal " 20 yr old girls don't necessarily want to sleep and hang out with father or grand father figures.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2611103]I get email blasts from SDFM in which the age range that SBs desire are almost all under 40. SA doesn't list that. So what happens with us older than 40 guys, is that we get the slimmer pickins unless the SB can not find anybody under 40 who is interested in them. It's amazing that 50-60+ yr old guys can get as much pussy as we do. Money talks. The ones who list age requirement as 0 to 80 are usually the UTRs or escorts. "Normal " 20 yr old girls don't necessarily want to sleep and hang out with father or grand father figures.[/QUOTE]I think you are right that most 20 year olds are not looking to sleep with guys over 40 but there is subset that doesn't seem to mind and seeks it. You are right though, my second SB I definitely think she was ultimately seeking a guy in his young 30's that was well off and hoping to get hitched. While I think she thought I was a nice guy and good looking enough, I never felt she had a whole lot of interest in me. But some others I have had, seem to really get off on turning the older guy on.

But this brings me to another topic. As my money starts to dwindle and I am less optimistic about getting much more (bonus this year looking lighter than I was hoping, LOL), I have trained my eye to FWBs. Now, maybe some think this is not the right forum to talk FWB, but really, my approach is basically the same. I lurk around on dating sites, CL and the like and pretty much approach young women much the same as I would SB, minus any money talk which I try to avoid up front with the SB anyway.

And I really haven't had any too much trouble chatting up women 18 to 29. I have met a 29 twice so far. Very attractive and good personality. Went and met a 23 year old today. Also talking to a girl who just turned 20 and was talking to an 18 year old but something didn't seem quite right so I went silent on her. But overall, this past year and a half, I have 6 FC visits with FWBs and I am confident now that I am focussed on it, there will be more. I view it as a way of sometimes justifying overspending on a SB, sort of balances out my costs. Overall, factoring in all the wasted money on subscriptions and girls that didn't pan out, I am avg about 150 a successful date, which is I think is really good. I have had I think 35 FC visits in about 18 months. And all but one was pretty damn good.

For those that are on the SA, I think you're in dreamland. 1. 6 - 2. 4 is more norm I think. They're not looking for a bunch of guys. They're looking for 1-2 guys (they'll ALL say 1).

[QUOTE=Inpddwt;2609387]She said she would get at least that amount per meeting. It wasn't even monthly. The MILF wasn't anything special to look and she looked like she was over 50 approaching 60 without her makeup. Maybe it was her way of telling me to fuck off. From what I have read so far, the number that I would like to approach per date is 100.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2611103]I get email blasts from SDFM in which the age range that SBs desire are almost all under 40. SA doesn't list that. So what happens with us older than 40 guys, is that we get the slimmer pickins unless the SB can not find anybody under 40 who is interested in them. It's amazing that 50-60+ yr old guys can get as much pussy as we do. Money talks. The ones who list age requirement as 0 to 80 are usually the UTRs or escorts. "Normal " 20 yr old girls don't necessarily want to sleep and hang out with father or grand father figures.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't read too much into an age range specified on a website. Many times on [URL]match.com[/URL] I found civy pickups who would just open the age range up to 70+ or whatever the upper end was at the time. I don't think they were truly interested in someone 70+, they just didn't want to be bothered to think too much about the age range because it didn't matter much to them.

One girl I dated a few times (bar pickup) had two recent boyfriends she told me about, one was 25 and the other was 53. I literally said "for fucks sake, do you think you've got a wide enough age range going there"? And she just laughed and said "men are men, it's not about age" and said the 25 year old was mature for his age and the 53 year old was in great shape for his age. She had a great job, wasn't even a SB or UTR candidate, that was just how she viewed dating. A lot of women view it the same way.

What I have been the unfortunate recipient of is a case of mistaken age range in a bar scene that was geared toward the 30 and under crowd, and the times that has happened have been enough to ruin an entire night. More than once I've had a semi-drunken 20 something get freaked out after mistaking me for someone closer to her age, then learning my actual age -- and every time this has happened it was when she was with her friends -- very clearly cared about not letting her friends see her hook up with an older guy even if she was attracted to him. So, looking younger than your age sometimes comes with a cost, I'd rather that type of false lead situation just not materialize at all. I've gotten by a few times by just lying about my age, but after a while you just don't feel like lying about it anymore.

This risk is removed for sugarbabies -- for the most part their friends don't need to know they are meeting you, so age becomes much less of an issue. Also, I've seen the above dilemma work in the opposite direction with SBs. I had one SB I was on a date with run into some of her friends from high school in a club -- this was a college baby that was going to school in the same city she recently graduated HS from. I told her it was cool if she wanted me to go stealth for a while so she could talk to her friends, but she clung onto me like I was her boyfriend as she introduced me to them. The polar opposite of the type of girls I mentioned above who care what their friends think. It's like having an SD (or as far as they knew simply an older date) was kind of a status symbol for her -- she was proud of it.

I remember when I was maybe in my late 30's, having a fuck buddy who was mid-20's. We would go out drinking sometimes but since we were not technically dating, we would both flirt with others whenever we felt like it, although we would ultimately go home together. Every time I saw her flirting with some guy, he was early 50's. She liked them old -- she used to joke that I was way too young for her. And, she was one of those I mentioned before from [URL]match.com[/URL] that had the "unlimited" age range in her profile.

I would say age is not a deterrent at all, as long as you take good care of yourself. Allow yourself to get old and sloppy looking, leathered and crusty, and well of course it's going to limit prospects to some degree.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2611098]I'm in a local group started here -and after an initial flurry of "do you know - ? Nothing. So I'm not sure guys want to share so much. There is also the prevailing requirement to trade girls. For me, currently only seeing one SB and not shopping due to SO constraints, I can not contribute so much. I do agree that newbies who have not established bona fides should not have access to a shopping list compiled by hard working mongers. So -a good thought but not so effective it seems. Publicly discussing individuals is fraught with hazard since girls can stalk this site and glean insider info-so most of it should be off site.[/QUOTE]Fred,

I agree with you that this thread is special, and we should not, at all costs, degrade into swapping the names of hookers, but I still maintain that it would be helpful to the brotherhood in a particular area to know if there are any scams being pulled, and exactly who those bad babies are.

I may have said this already, but when I had a retail store decades ago, my fellow retailers and I had a local police detective come talk to us about our rights as storeowners regarding shoplifters and just plain suspicious people. The one piece of advice that struck me was this, "you can't hurt the feelings of a crook. " A scammer knows she's a scammer, and if she somehow discovers her name and picture on this thread, she will know that the jig's up for her. I see nothing wrong with that.

That said, bitching about GPS with a name and profile attached is a horse of a different color altogether. Let the market sort that out. But scammers, thieves and bad babies are a whole different issue in my mind.

On a different topic, I LOVE Back To School Time! I have many assorted escapades to relate, but not enough time at the moment, sadly. Let me say, however, that school supplies are apparently more expensive than ever, and freshman pussy can be had for the cost of a few textbooks. Just remember to check IDs

What a life!

Scott.

I went to a coffeehouse to meet my two POT. I decided to do two back to back meetings. The first POT had class tonight so she couldn't stay very long. The second POT flaked out and didn't return my calls.

This has been my best encounter so far even I didn't get her to the FC. We talked for a bit, and made a real connection. I drove her back to the dorm, and we're going to meet sometime next week.

This thread has helped me so much. I used one of the template message on girls that I already messaged but didn't get back to me. Three of them replied to my second response.

My problem that I am running into is that I get the girl's phone, but then it is dead silence after that. They won't reply to my text and they won't answer their phones. Looks like I have more studying to do.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2607589]Well I finally met a POT I've been wanting to meet for months. She is three hours from me and with my schedule and hers as she travels for her work it has been difficult. I wrote her off a couple of times, and she left the site for a while. I knew Sunday and Monday would be open, so I reached out to her earlier in the week. She drove a little bit and I drove the rest to meet. A recent grad from a university and on the side is a lifeguard and about 24 yrs old. Her pictures were nice, but she is way better in person. I think the cameras on the phones make people look just a little bit bigger than they are. Anyway we met at a restaurant, then ended up at my hotel to the FC. That was quality damn pussy. I love a woman who takes care of themselves hygienically. She is getting added to my lineup.

Since I was making that drive I was working on a few plan B's in case this one didn't work out or flaked on me. After I kissed my baby goodbye not but an hour later I was contacted by one of the women I reached out to before I left. We are meeting for breakfast. I'm supposed to be driving back, but maybe I don't start back until later. Who knows? Gents this game is fun.

I would rate my new baby 9/10/9/8. I'm tempering my enthusiasm in giving the face a nine and her personality a nine. Her skills might improve from the eight as we get to know each other in the bed each time. But eight is also good. I anticipate that will improve.[/QUOTE]Now that I've come down from my high, and it's not as if I didn't have certain things run through my mind at the time of the meet, but I want feedback from you guys. I want to know what you think my baby does for a living.

I will give you my conclusion first. I've been wrong before, so here goes. I'm thinking my new girl works in the porn industry or maybe nude magazines. Here's why I think that. On our meet and greet we had a nice dinner with very good conversation. She does have intelligence as she is a recent graduate of a Div I university. Periodically she travels to Las Vegas to work for a modeling catalog. As she describes it it is "an off brand company". This was after I asked what retailer it was. What is the secret about revealing what retailer it is I thought. She says she used to work in California, but now works in Las Vegas. When asking her if she still works in California from time to time she said she doesn't because that company had a requirement of working under a contract. The company in LV allows her to work as an independent, which gives her much more freedom as she put it. She said she pretty much works when the money gets low, and will go out for a week at a time to do the shoots. When it was near the end of our FC meeting she made a point to say to contact her after she returns. Reading her and between the lines I took it that she can't be interrupted while she is working. That in itself doesn't bother me, because I would have no reason to call her anyway, but it came across as she can't be interrupted. Oh I forgot to add that she mentioned she works at the Aria casino from time to time as a greeter for special occasions or events going on there.

My take is one she is doing porn films.

Two she is shooting in nude magazines.

Three she has another daddy in LV.

Four she is escorting for the Aria or has certain clients that fly her out. (I do know of this about many hot women from around the country can go into LV and escort for a month, sometimes exclusively with a hotel and come away with 10 to 15 k in a month minimum, then come home.

Five she is modeling clothing for a retail store's catalog.

On a side note during our dinner while she was describing her work and where she works I asked her if she was in the adult industry. She said she didn't and that everyone she talks to about her profession thinks the same thing. Personally I didn't take the bait that she is a legit model. What say you, guys?

I also have to mention that on her spare time she is a lifeguard for a local fire department or something.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2611957]Now that I've come down from my high, and it's not as if I didn't have certain things run through my mind at the time of the meet, but I want feedback from you guys. I want to know what you think my baby does for a living.

I will give you my conclusion first. I've been wrong before, so here goes. I'm thinking my new girl works in the porn industry or maybe nude magazines. Here's why I think that. On our meet and greet we had a nice dinner with very good conversation. She does have intelligence as she is a recent graduate of a Div I university. Periodically she travels to Las Vegas to work for a modeling catalog. As she describes it it is "an off brand company". This was after I asked what retailer it was. What is the secret about revealing what retailer it is I thought. She says she used to work in California, but now works in Las Vegas. When asking her if she still works in California from time to time she said she doesn't because that company had a requirement of working under a contract. The company in LV allows her to work as an independent, which gives her much more freedom as she put it. She said she pretty much works when the money gets low, and will go out for a week at a time to do the shoots. When it was near the end of our FC meeting she made a point to say to contact her after she returns. Reading her and between the lines I took it that she can't be interrupted while she is working. That in itself doesn't bother me, because I would have no reason to call her anyway, but it came across as she can't be interrupted. Oh I forgot to add that she mentioned she works at the Aria casino from time to time as a greeter for special occasions or events going on there.

My take is one she is doing porn films.

Two she is shooting in nude magazines.

Three she has another daddy in LV.

Four she is escorting for the Aria or has certain clients that fly her out. (I do know of this about many hot women from around the country can go into LV and escort for a month, sometimes exclusively with a hotel and come away with 10 to 15 k in a month minimum, then come home.

Five she is modeling clothing for a retail store's catalog.

On a side note during our dinner while she was describing her work and where she works I asked her if she was in the adult industry. She said she didn't and that everyone she talks to about her profession thinks the same thing. Personally I didn't take the bait that she is a legit model. What say you, guys?

I also have to mention that on her spare time she is a lifeguard for a local fire department or something.[/QUOTE]My first guess was escort.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2611957]Now that I've come down from my high, and it's not as if I didn't have certain things run through my mind at the time of the meet, but I want feedback from you guys. I want to know what you think my baby does for a living.

I will give you my conclusion first. I've been wrong before, so here goes. I'm thinking my new girl works in the porn industry or maybe nude magazines. Here's why I think that. On our meet and greet we had a nice dinner with very good conversation. She does have intelligence as she is a recent graduate of a Div I university. Periodically she travels to Las Vegas to work for a modeling catalog. As she describes it it is "an off brand company". This was after I asked what retailer it was. What is the secret about revealing what retailer it is I thought. She says she used to work in California, but now works in Las Vegas. When asking her if she still works in California from time to time she said she doesn't because that company had a requirement of working under a contract. The company in LV allows her to work as an independent, which gives her much more freedom as she put it. She said she pretty much works when the money gets low, and will go out for a week at a time to do the shoots. When it was near the end of our FC meeting she made a point to say to contact her after she returns. Reading her and between the lines I took it that she can't be interrupted while she is working. That in itself doesn't bother me, because I would have no reason to call her anyway, but it came across as she can't be interrupted. Oh I forgot to add that she mentioned she works at the Aria casino from time to time as a greeter for special occasions or events going on there.

My take is one she is doing porn films.

Two she is shooting in nude magazines.

Three she has another daddy in LV.

Four she is escorting for the Aria or has certain clients that fly her out. (I do know of this about many hot women from around the country can go into LV and escort for a month, sometimes exclusively with a hotel and come away with 10 to 15 k in a month minimum, then come home.

Five she is modeling clothing for a retail store's catalog.

On a side note during our dinner while she was describing her work and where she works I asked her if she was in the adult industry. She said she didn't and that everyone she talks to about her profession thinks the same thing. Personally I didn't take the bait that she is a legit model. What say you, guys?

I also have to mention that on her spare time she is a lifeguard for a local fire department or something.[/QUOTE]There is a growing porn industry emerging here in LV. Both video, and photo as well as Cam-girl "Studios" I have an acquaintance from Houston that travels to Vegas about every 90 days to shoot video content. Early on in my Sugar Bowl adventures I met a young woman who made a decent living working as a Cam Girl. Your POT sounds more like someone doing Adult work rather than Sears catalog modeling.

[QUOTE=Inpddwt;2611847]I went to a coffeehouse to meet my two POT. I decided to do two back to back meetings. The first POT had class tonight so she couldn't stay very long. The second POT flaked out and didn't return my calls.

This has been my best encounter so far even I didn't get her to the FC. We talked for a bit, and made a real connection. I drove her back to the dorm, and we're going to meet sometime next week.

This thread has helped me so much. I used one of the template message on girls that I already messaged but didn't get back to me. Three of them replied to my second response.

My problem that I am running into is that I get the girl's phone, but then it is dead silence after that. They won't reply to my text and they won't answer their phones. Looks like I have more studying to do.[/QUOTE]Don't think you need to study more. It is part of the game they play.