"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1680802]"Well the crazy * has called my wife " Revvo.

I hate to be the voice of doom, but all of us will be exposed if we do this long enough. The problem is that we become addicted to the lifestyle and the high that we get from it. It is much like alcohol or drug addiction. I have it bad and got exposed because I could not stop, or at least tone back to modest exposure.

You should call her (the tool) and inform her that you have told your wife, she is behind you, and will call the police if she bothers you or your wife again.

The other thing you might consider doing is throw yourself at her feet (wife) , confess a little bit, at least about this tool, and beg forgiveness. If she finds out it is better coming from you. Several of us here have gone through that trial.

Good luck Nando[/QUOTE]Long time lurker on this thread and getting my feet wet on this side of the hobby. Nando gave good advice by telling you to call the crazy chick but go a little further and get a female friend even if you have to pay her to call her and pretend she is your wife and play along with her. From me studying this board and studying the mental make up of so called SB's the safest route to tell them is that you are either not married or divorced. That will cut the ammunition of one of them getting out of pocket and trying to blackmail you. No need to tell one of them you are married. Future reference is to make a check list. Make up your alto ego name age etc, email, prepaid or green dot credit card, different cell phone or google voice, most important is to keep your car clean and double check center console and glove compartment for any papers with your real name and address. Also when and if she rides with you and you drop her off, clean car and make sure she didn't drop any eye rings or accessories or loose hair in the passenger side of the vehicle.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1678906]All of my Garden Tools know I'm seeing others and they are too. I asked one to be exclusive and she said no. A interesting reality check for me.

I've have this discussion with all of my regulars. There seems to be a understanding that it is not a naturally exclusive relationship. You can buy pussy. But you can't buy the person. This is because of many factors. The main one is this: We are most likely significantly older than our Garden Tools and probably married. Our Garden Tools often has not given up on that dream for their own lives. They are not going to stop pursuit of that goal just because we are giving them a little cash. Some are honest enough to tell you this straight up. Others will sell you the idea you want.

I know this has been discussed before. But I think the natural structure of the relationship with a Garden Tool does not lend itself to exclusivity. After all if we wanted to be exclusive wouldn't we just keep fucking our wives or SO's? And wouldn't our Garden Tools instead become girlfriends and wives? Can a one sided relationship really work? It has nothing to do with the money. We give them the money in order to get the pussy. After the exchange is complete the reality is that they are free to sell pussy to the next person that comes along.

Unless you are providing for their every need and have them under lock and key, the only time you know your Garden Tool is not fucking someone else is when you have your dick in her. A harsh reality but much more likely to be closer to the truth than thinking she is exclusive to you.

Go balls deep & prosper!

SubCmdr Out[/QUOTE]Many trueism's here. (is that a word. LOL) Due to my inability to stay out of trouble (too many to list). I now have a UTR / Pro living with me. She works SD4me and BP on occasion. I have also seen her flip guys on so called normal dating site into bitches. This arrangement keeps us both protected (as neither of us wants to be in an exclusive arrangement). I have learned quite a bit watching her play guy after guy. And it's impossible for any girl to think they could be exclusive with me when they meet her. She is not allowed to bring anyone over, but they all know her living arrangements. I bring some of my girls here and it helps keep some emotional distance. Rarely do we all play together. Not really my thing. Too distracting. LOL. I realize there are many married guys on here so this is not for you. But the overall point of "You can buy pussy. But you can't buy the person." is so true. Some girls will fall in love anyway and will compete to be the #1 or ATF. These are quality problems for sure.

My live in is also very helpful in weeding out the fake non-pros. Takes one to know one, and she hasnt been wrong yet.

Wow, this is so close to what I went through. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that if the truth comes out, I'm toast either way. So I stuck to my story and eventually that won over. I did have to do some clean up. I added a picture to my account that was not me. I changed the number on my batphone. I double-checked to make sure I did not have any texts or emails that could link my pseudo to my real name. I also got out front and told the wife the preliminary story. It may be too late for that, but you do have the fact that she's given different names and could be classified as unstable. You got to get a story that works and stick to it until you are forced to tell the truth. You have to be in the driver's seat and not reactive. If you have a trusted friend, you may need to employ help and get someone to vouch that she's tried to extort from them also. Don't sit and wait for doom, take action! The worst decision is not making a decision.

Others have given good advice. It's going to hard with the police as you don't have a real name and not sure she's trying to extort you. So it's basic harassment, except that she may be telling the truth.

Revvo, there are no easy solutions with this one, I hate that this happened so early in your SD career.

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1680389]Well the crazy * has called my wife back at her work now. Wife was not there but called me to asked me about her. She gave wife two different names already. I asked wife who is it Kimberly or Elissa?

Wife said she does not know. Just left a message with receptionist that she needed to talk to her about Revvo. I said I don't know who it is never heard of either. Don't you think it is strange that there are two different names? She said she does not know.

I can tell she is suspicious. Asked me if there is anything she should know. I said no very nonchalantly. I asked her if she was going to call crazy * back. She said I don't know should I. I said I don't know.

That is where it is at now.

She is getting closer. 90% chance shit will hit the fan. I think I have found the one smart crazy criminal on the planet. I am fucked.

Revvo[/QUOTE]

So I just got back from seeing the UTR girl. She texted me earlier in the day wanting to meet and I said I would but that I would give her just. 4$. She agreed, so I thought why the hell not.

We were meeting up for a car date late at night and at the beginning she asked if I could stop by the store afterwards to get a few supplies. I wasn't thrilled at the idea since I literally just wanted to pick her up, bang her, and then drop her off. But since she was willing to meet for just. 4$, I tentatively agreed. Plus our first encounter sex-wise was fantastic. However this time it ended up being much more lackluster. I think it had to do with her ex-boyfriend getting out of jail this week because she couldn't stop talking about him. When it came time to do the nasty she was much more distant than before.

Afterward, she still asked to go to the store but now she was saying she just wanted to buy cigs but she left her I'd at home. She asked me if I can buy them, I said I don't feel like getting out of the car. She begged me some more but I said I left my wallet at home also. I then quickly dropped her off.

As mentioned earlier, I keep all my IDs, registration, and etc in a locked box in my car. I wasn't going to unlock this just to buy her cigs. Also I would be vulnerable while in the store buying the cigs with my I'd, she could easily look over my shoulder to see my real name & address on my I'd.

I also felt that she was now migrating back toward her ex-bf who is an ex-con, that's a flaming red warning sign of drama.

I was hoping to keep this girl around for a cheap thrill every now and then. But the situation has just gotten too risky. She doesn't work, doesn't go to school, hangs around with criminal ex-boyfriends, possibly trying to figure out of my real real name. I have no intel on her either, so if she steps out of line, I'd have nothing to use against her.

Just remember to always be vigilant. Assume very girl is a pyscho until you can confirm otherwise.

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1681015]However this time it ended up being much more lackluster. I think it had to do with her ex-boyfriend getting out of jail this week because she couldn't stop talking about him. When it came time to do the nasty she was much more distant than before.

I also felt that she was now migrating back toward her ex-bf who is an ex-con, that's a flaming red warning sign of drama.

I was hoping to keep this girl around for a cheap thrill every now and then. But the situation has just gotten too risky. She doesn't work, doesn't go to school, hangs around with criminal ex-boyfriends, possibly trying to figure out of my real real name. I have no intel on her either, so if she steps out of line, I'd have nothing to use against her.

Just remember to always be vigilant. Assume very girl is a pyscho until you can confirm otherwise.[/QUOTE]Danger Will Robinson! Danger ahead! Drop this one now.

There is more DANGER than DRAMA ahead with this one.

Dissapear

SB1 clued me in to say anything but married on her way out the door. Creates unneccesary issues and many of the girls deep down are looking for a long term partner. Fortunately for me I have an apartment 500 miles from home due to work. A true man cave. So that is where I receive visitors and, except for the occasional phone call, I can keep the 2 separate. My facebook is locked down and, I hope, no other potential issues.

These are some truly hair-raising stories here, my friends, and certainly cautionary tales for us all. Without going back and reading all the lead-up, is there a common thread that binds all the crazy babies together? Didn't you all meet them on SD4M? It may be just my personal prejudice, but in the Chicago area, the babies on that site are, for the most part, lower rent than the ones on SA. I'd just be curious to know where they have come from.

Revvo, I hope the shit bypasses your fan, my brother. I agree with Tigg, however, don't hand your wife the goods on your extracurricular activities. I was involved in a trial as a witness many years ago, and the lawyer who was prepping me gave me this bit of advice: don't say a single word more than you have to; there is no sense in doing the other side's work for them. If your wife is going to nail you, she will do it on her own, with our without your help.

Good luck, my friend!

Scott

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1680389]Well the crazy * has called my wife back at her work now. Wife was not there but called me to asked me about her. She gave wife two different names already. I asked wife who is it Kimberly or Elissa?

Wife said she does not know. Just left a message with receptionist that she needed to talk to her about Revvo. I said I don't know who it is never heard of either. Don't you think it is strange that there are two different names? She said she does not know.

I can tell she is suspicious. Asked me if there is anything she should know. I said no very nonchalantly. I asked her if she was going to call crazy * back. She said I don't know should I. I said I don't know.

That is where it is at now.

She is getting closer. 90% chance shit will hit the fan. I think I have found the one smart crazy criminal on the planet. I am fucked.

Revvo[/QUOTE]Keep the narrative focused on the lost credit card and your dinner with clients. Suggest that card might have been lost (or stolen) in the restaurant, and that this crazy * is probably just lashing out at anyone connected with the person she was soliciting at the table. She or her pimp probably searched the internet for your name and are hoping to scam you or your wife. Don't make too detailed a narrative (since more details provide more points that can be checked, or more points where you can create a conflicting story), but make sure all points in your narrative are consistent.

R:R

Or have the potential to turn psycho in a nonosecond. My SO has always told me women are far more dangerous than I could ever imagine.

I posted last summer about how thankful I was to have resisted the urge to entertain a few that I thought I knew well enough to trust.

Turns out in each case it would have been a huge mistake and I'd probably still be uneasy if a passing car slowed.

So different from when my original sb would move in for days at a time when I was home alone, although in retrospect that could have turned ugly and she did " out " me and identify me to several of her friends, so they they knew me but I didn't know them. Very uncomfortable if you are well known in what can become a small town.

My general life philosophy has been to trust people until they give you a reason not to. I have suspended that in the sugar bowl.

Not to be judgemental, I'm out here too, but just the fact that they are out here tells you there is some dysfunction and I don't even want to imagine what could be lurking just below the surface.

So, unfortunately if you learn anything in reading this thread, protecting your true identity should be rule # 1, and rule 2 is see rule 1.

Difficult when the goal is to establish intimacy and engage in intimate acts that are enhanced by that intimacy.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1681358]These are some truly hair-raising stories here, my friends, and certainly cautionary tales for us all. Without going back and reading all the lead-up, is there a common thread that binds all the crazy babies together? Didn't you all meet them on SD4M? It may be just my personal prejudice, but in the Chicago area, the babies on that site are, for the most part, lower rent than the ones on SA. I'd just be curious to know where they have come from.

Revvo, I hope the shit bypasses your fan, my brother. I agree with Tigg, however, don't hand your wife the goods on your extracurricular activities. I was involved in a trial as a witness many years ago, and the lawyer who was prepping me gave me this bit of advice: don't say a single word more than you have to; there is no sense in doing the other side's work for them. If your wife is going to nail you, she will do it on her own, with our without your help.

Good luck, my friend!

Scott[/QUOTE]I used to be on SA and SD4me at the same time and then I switched to SD4me exclusively when I saw a lot of the same girls were on both. (As it costs them nothing to join.) SA is geared to promote the SB at a higher level of compensation due to thier ridiculous drop down bar suggesting how much compensation they think they deserve per month. And there are less girls (less competition). The super hotties on SD4me are less than the average girls on SA due to their higher expectations. I am in L. A. Can't speak for anywhere else. But it's a buyers market in most areas of the country as far as I can tell. And can only get better over time as the acceptability of this lifestyle to the young girls is growing at a dramatic rate. And not to get political, but if the current government trend of job creation continues to push only the lowest paying jobs as a way out of the recession this can only help the SD side of the equation.

In my industry (to go unnamed) as the margins have fallen due in large part to government over regulation, healthcare fears and higher taxes, many people have been layed off (especially women under 30) hiring has stalled and everyones pay has been cut. This not only increases the desperation of the girls but also has limited the ability of the hobbyist to budget the larger amounts spent just a few short years ago.

I remember going to industry conventions where guys would drop 5k in one night in a strip club. That would be unthinkable today.

I'm new to the prospect of becoming a SD but I suppose a bit lucky. I already have a potential that wants to meet (I initiated the meet and greet after a couple of days and she was very agreeable). I was hoping to hear some thoughts on giving out numbers and photos as well as any other cautionary advice that any of you feel like passing along. I don't have a significant other so I don't have to worry about that aspect but I would be concerned about the crazies so I want to protect myself. Just so you know, before I get flamed to death, I have been reading the forum and even though I'm not a senior member yet I'm not 12 years old either. I'm just hoping to gain a little extra insight from those who are experienced and would appreciate the help.

Thanks

My crazy was from SD4Me. Maybe it has something to do with that fact that you don't have to pay to be contacted. On Sdaddie dot com, everyone one has to pay to send and receive emails. So that may cut down on some of the riff-raff. I think SA is the same unless you are a proven college baby (via emails address).

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1681358]These are some truly hair-raising stories here, my friends, and certainly cautionary tales for us all. Without going back and reading all the lead-up, is there a common thread that binds all the crazy babies together? Didn't you all meet them on SD4M? It may be just my personal prejudice, but in the Chicago area, the babies on that site are, for the most part, lower rent than the ones on SA. I'd just be curious to know where they have come from.

Revvo, I hope the shit bypasses your fan, my brother. I agree with Tigg, however, don't hand your wife the goods on your extracurricular activities. I was involved in a trial as a witness many years ago, and the lawyer who was prepping me gave me this bit of advice: don't say a single word more than you have to; there is no sense in doing the other side's work for them. If your wife is going to nail you, she will do it on her own, with our without your help.

Good luck, my friend!

Scott[/QUOTE]

SA is definitely more "high-brow" than SD4M. For starters, SA has blogs which promote "white knight" fantasies, which tends to attract "normal" girls who want a knight in shining armor to take all their troubles away and whisk them away to a large castle. Whereas SD4M, the website design itself is a little more "sleazier" and on the average it tends to attract girls who just want money without all the fairytale fantasies. But it means there's a higher concentration of pros and Nando1s on that site, especially since the girls don't have to pay to be contacted. Ironically though my first psycho came from SA. So they're everywhere.

It's also why I've cautioned some of our married brothers here to be careful juggling multiple SBs and Pots. If you're juggling 4 or more girls at a time, there's just no way you can keep track of proper alibis and you may miss some early warning signs because you're caught up with too many other SBs / pots. I know it's tempting because frankly we're in the golden-age of the sugar bowl. It's a buyer's market and the HYCB real estate is in much abundance. But putting too much on your plate is a recipe for things to go crashing down sooner rather than later.

And while I agree, rule #1 is protecting your true identity and rule #2 is to follow rule #1. That said, we have to be realistic and honest with ourselves that in almost any mid to long-term sugar arrangement, the SB will likely find out your true identity. The more stuff you do with your SB, the more likely you'll accidentally leave a bread crumb of your true identity. Just read my post on "vulnerable" areas to get an idea and I still probably missed a bunch of things. So it's all about contingency plans. You need to be able to explain every M&G and every date if your SO questions you hard about it or if someone saw you. If your SB turns psycho, you need to already have your "Plan B" brown envelope, which you put together after the very first meet. Nothing should surprise you even when it does.

And above all NEVER confess. Never. Women have the instinctual defense mechanism to go into denial even when the bloody truth is staring them in the face. Probably goes back to caveman days so that "Jane" could mentally handle "Jack" putting his saber bone into "Jill","Jan", and the rest of the cave's people. So give her a plausible but vague story that will facilitate her denial. Until the SO and her private eye have the "smoking gun" on you, maintain the allusion. Eight times out of ten the SO will [i]want[/i] To believe it even if they have serious doubts.

The recent stories by many of the members here have reminded us that this is a dangerous game, especially if you're married. Just by looking at this forum you can see a great percentage of sugar daddies will get exposed to their SO within the first 18 months of getting into the Bowl. The risk of exposure is just so much higher compared to seeing escorts and going to AMPs. For example the last meeting with my Backseat SB, she left her under shirt in my car. Even though it was dark, thankfully I caught it that night when I did a quick final checkup because my SO used my car the next morning without my knowledge.

If you have a marriage that you really value and care about, then maybe getting in to the Sugar Bowl isn't the best idea. If you just need to bang a hot girl every now and then for variety, escorts / AMPs are FAR less riskier toward your marriage (assuming you avoid LEO, which honestly isn't that hard if you're smart). As someone mentioned already, SBs are for those that need a little bit of a personal connection or "human" touch with their sex. But it comes at a price.

As for me, I wouldn't be overly distraught if my wife found out and wanted a divorce. I have some issues with her and I've basically thrown in the towel. It doesn't mean I'm not super careful concealing my identity and also insuring my escapades don't give her reason to raise questions. But I can handle the end game if ultimately I get caught and exposed. My marriage is simply not as good as some of you guys, so I'm willing to put it at the mercy of the risks of the sugar bowl. But after all the recent stories here of psychos, we should all reassess what exactly are we trying to get from the sugar bowl and if it's worth the risks. I'd say budget SDs and streetwalker mongers are probably the highest risks of exposure in the Hobbyist world.

With the exception of whether we're in the "golden age" of the sugar bowl (I personally think the bloom is coming off the rose, thanks to too much publicity and its attendant problems) I agree with all that John says. But I would remind you that divorce and other spousal problems are not the only, or for some of us even the worst, issues a bunny-boiler can cause. There are plenty of stories out there about jobs lost or whole careers ruined by such a crazy getting into the guy's work info and wrecking havoc, too.

Never forget that, in the end, every single girl you meet doing this is proving by their participation that they are out for #1. Some small but significant number of them will have no scruples in how far they will go for #1, and some of those will have experience at it.

[QUOTE=Jbl0068; 1681610]I'm new to the prospect of becoming a SD but I suppose a bit lucky. I already have a potential that wants to meet (I initiated the meet and greet after a couple of days and she was very agreeable). I was hoping to hear some thoughts on giving out numbers and photos as well as any other cautionary advice that any of you feel like passing along. I don't have a significant other so I don't have to worry about that aspect but I would be concerned about the crazies so I want to protect myself. Just so you know, before I get flamed to death, I have been reading the forum and even though I'm not a senior member yet I'm not 12 years old either. I'm just hoping to gain a little extra insight from those who are experienced and would appreciate the help.

Thanks[/QUOTE]The question concerns giving out a cell number. A cell number can be googled to turn up our classified ad selling a washer and dryer and our real first name to go with it. Another question concerns a girl having our real photograph. Our real photograph is false proof she really knows us although we never met. She has the power to cause some future wife pause we must have met last week. How else would she have our photograph? Why would she do it? Because her expectations were not met. Women get mad.

Jb, start by reading the entire board starting with Post 1. Pay close attention to what happens when we get emotionally involved, when we think exclusivity is consistent with pay for play, when we fail to keep our personal information secure and when she has the power to show up at our work, things such as that. We have the power to hide in the weeds to protect our true selfves and those close to us but when we share our identities we give her power over us. With or without a SO we still have a life and we don't want it known among our circle that we engage in pay for play. Getting caught in an affair is survivable, maybe not to our marriage but survivable at work; getting caught in pay for play is not survivable. Jb, you're coming here at just the right time. The board has gone full circle on a lot of these mitakes showing how things are different when we have hindsight. It's here for the reading starting with Post 1, all free of charge. Note which posts you see yourself in and keep reading to see how they turned out. The bottom line is to learn the need to keep one's powder dry and how to use common sense to do it without exception. Learn this here before you journey out and are a danger to yourself.

Welcome to the board.

About two months ago I saw an article about sugar babies and started doing a little research. I posted on my local board asking if anyone had any experience with some of the SD websites. I only got a couple of replies, basically saying that "I heard it was more expensive". I think I share some of the views held on this thread, in that while I am not made of money, I am willing to part with a little premium if the reward is an encounter that surpasses the usual BP meet. I found SD dotcom and created a profile, but did not pay for a membership. I had received a few emails but couldn't answer them. Friday I was scrolling through the main forum page and the title of this thread caught my eye. I read the most recent 5 pages, and was hooked! I spent yesterday and today going through the whole thread from the start. Thanks to all who have provided so much insight into this topic. (It got a little snarky there towards the end in spots, but overall one of the best threads on this board.

So, yesterday, before I was even through the thread, I activated my profile and sent out a handful of notes (seems that SA is the preferred board on here, if my 3 month profile on SD. Com doesn't pan out I plan to go there next). I work away from home at times and right now I am on a project in a rather rural area in the northeast, so there were not tons of good choices. Initially I was just planning to wait until I get home in a couple of months but I figured I could use this as my minor league assignment, so that when I get back to PHX, I have my "A" game. I already received my first reply, a 32 YO MILF, but I think she thought she was on match. Com, as she said in her email that <gasp men on this site seem to be only interested in sex! I may email back and forth a bit and see if she really is that naive, but I think the odds of a home run in my first AB are low with her. In any event, I have a line in the water (to mix metaphors) and you can't win if you don't play. I look forward to reporting on my learning curve and thanks again for the intel!

Now more than ever before is there such a concentration of exceptional advice accumulated by many of the masters of the game.

Newbies pay attention. While you still have to read the entire thread to see the evolution of the techniques and thoughts involved, there is a $million of advice and experience here in the SB game.

My contribution right now is this. Do not seek Nando 1' s EVER. They are desperate, fickle, larcenous, amoral, unpredictable, inconsistent, and will burn you in a New York minute. SDFM has a higher M to F ratio therefore the competition is greater for men. The girls will open a dialog, flirt, schedule a date, and not show, blow you off, or disappear. They are all about the money only and will upgrade at your expense. Many of the ones who do show are pros, semipros, or truly desperate. JG Smith's UTR girl is a classic Nando 1 right down to the bf in prison. Brother, you do not want a professional criminal in your life.

Girls in college usually have scholarships or their families are helping them, so they are not desperate. Their work ethic is usually good, they are motivated to succeed, and need some extra help for rent, books, or sundries. I think they are the most reliable SBs as a group. Plus they view sex as a sport much like tennis or racquet ball. Thank you Madonna, Britney, and associates. There are exceptions all up and down the scale and we each have our preferences.

This forum is chocked full and I appreciate the wisdom displayed here.

My HCB is still in the picture. None of the replacement players have paid off yet. There are 3 apparent Nando 1's off SDFM that I am working.

#1 was scheduled for tonight and blew me off because she's too tired and has to work early tomorrow. Well no shit! I am never too tired for sex or making money. I also noticed she was on line at that very moment. So she is working a better deal. She has GPS and quoted a price per meet (PPM) of $800. I laughed and countered with $$ and she accepted the next day. So here we are today, so I offered to meet just for coffee, a true M&G. She then wanted money for gas and sitter just to meet me. I didn't answer. Scratch one.

#2 is on deck for tomorrow and she announced that she is a lady and no sex on the first date. So if she shows she will get no $$ and the first date either. I will treat her to dinner. She has not responded to my text about tomorrow's date and I noticed she is also on line right now. No allowance has been discussed yet. She is 21 size 2 with purple hair She is a cute 7/7/8. I like her loving banter so I hope she works out.

#3 AA hottie from SA 8/8? She blew me off Friday because something "came up". The only thing that should come up is my *well, you know.

AM pen pal is going nicely, but I do not know if this will ever go beyond the PP stage.

PF HCB (PF=Present Favorite) Is still there and mtg her Tues nite. I guess I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. She isn't a sex maniac buy I will try to be more patient. Maybe the rose will bloom in time.

" JG Smith's UTR girl is a classic Nando 1 right down to the bf in prison. Brother, you do not want a professional criminal in your life."

Absolutely. I didn't know about the prison bf until the last meet. And if you read my previous post I was already planning to keep her at arm's length. But now yeah I'm totally done with her. I agree I think it's good advice to just completely avoid the Nando1s. Yes it can be easier to score with them, but often times it's short-lived and not worth the drama.

[quote]But I would remind you that divorce and other spousal problems are not the only, or for some of us even the worst, issues a bunny-boiler can cause. There are plenty of stories out there about jobs lost or whole careers ruined by such a crazy getting into the guy's work info and wrecking havoc, too.[/quote]Thanks for the reminder. I often forget about the risks it can cause to a job / career because I run my own business. If a psycho SB tries to call my work, it will just ring the phone on my desk, instead of my cell. I certainly won't be firing myself. And my SO doesn't work, our home number isn't listed, so for me in terms of work things are pretty sealed off and a dead-end for psychos. But obviously this isn't the case for everyone. We all have different areas where we are more vulnerable than others. Back again to the good advice from Hernando to just avoid Nando1s when possible.

[b]College Athlete SB[/b]

Had our first meeting this weekend. It was basically just a M&G, but it went well. She's smoking hot and even better in person than her pictures. We got along well and when we discussed the "physical" component of the arrangement, she agreed and was on board. This was a relief since I was really trying to tread softly on the subject. We made out in the car and I think there's a good chance our next meeting will be at the FC. But of course you never know for sure until you're [i]in[/i] It.

Also one requirement I had was for her to hide / disable her profile on the SD site. I could tell she was somewhat bummed, but she agreed to it anyway. Has anyone else asked their SB to close their profiles? I'm not kidding myself, I know that if she still wants to keep pursuing other SDs she will find a way. But at minimum it will send her underground and reduce the flow of messages she sends / receives. She has some really good pictures, so if she left her profile up she would just keep getting a good volume of responses daily. I've had two previous semi-long term SB arrangements (+3 months) and in both cases I required the SBs to stop playing the SD field. Whatever they did in their personal life was their business, but I prefer to be the only SD. And you don't necessarily have to pay a lot of money, you just have to find the right girl that you can cover the expenses and have somewhat of a connection. Of course there are still horror stories like Hernando's, so you never truly know. Just curious how often other guys here ask the SBs to close their profiles. I'll probably keep checking every week or so to see if she creates a new account on the current site or other SD sites. If she ends up having another SD it's not the end of the world. I just don't want her talking to 5-6 SD pots daily.

Got to agree, college (full-time) babies are the best babies. They're relatively stable, especially the 3rd and 4th year students. Yet they're still very sexual because hey, it's college. The only thing is, college babies can range from very affordable to mega-GPS. Even if they already have all the tuition, books, and rent paid for, some still demand an allowance equal to a junior executive. I think that's the tricky part is finding a college SB that is need of some help but still fairly independent.

Guys. This is not a joke. I thought I had good security and the the crazy ***** got through. She is taking a wrecking ball to my life. And seems to have plenty of time on her hands.

It may be more than one person. She may be part of a professional con artist team. Not sure yet. Seeing the attorney this morning.

The risks on this are higher than you can imagine. And I have not even done anything!

Revvo

I usually don't require it, but most have done it voluntarily once we get into a groove. It's usually the woman who asks me what am I going to do about my profile and is checking up on when I last logged in, LOL.

[QUOTE=John G Smith;1682686]Just curious how often other guys here ask the SBs to close their profiles.[/QUOTE]

Quote Originally Posted by John G Smith [View Original Post]

"Just curious how often other guys here ask the SBs to close their profiles."

I do

Here's the question of monogamy vs. Polygamy that always rears it's ugly head. I am referring to SBs who you are attracted on every level and not some dingbat who is blowing you in the back seat of your car. I am in favor of IT for multiple reasons.

1) STD limitation : You never know who they are doing behind closed doors but at least they are making a commitment to you

2) emotional commitment: They are content with you and don't need to prospect.

3) financial stability : Your sugar is providing enough for their needs so they are not desperate and edging towards the Nando 1 classification.

4) amateur status : They are not as likely to be multifuckers either out of greed, desperation, or pro bookings

5) Early warning : A newly reopened profile indicates her tiring of your services and emergence of a failure if items #1 through 4

[QUOTE=John G Smith;1682686]Just curious how often other guys here ask the SBs to close their profiles.[/QUOTE]Never done it. Never will. Reminds me of GolfCart's principle of not pushing on a string.

But I'm interested to know. How much money does it take to make a woman into your personal garden tool and have her give you exclusive rights to buy the pussy?

Shout out to the hard working Nando 1's. If you can't take the risks of dealing with this type of garden tool then you are wise to stay away. But they are my favorite. But I also have a unique set of skills honed over my career. I don't have the same types of worries that many of you have. I like Nando1's. They are more interesting and often way more sexual. And the best value in the garden tool market. And I've never had a Nando1 no show on me or fail to fulfill a futures contract obligation. And just on a personal note. Nando1's NEED the money. They are not rich spoiled little girls that are too lazy to get off their ass and get a real job while in college. Oh my, I don't have enough money to party so let me become a garden tool! Really? Preference for the Educated garden tools. A most fascinating concept. But not for me!

SubCmdr Out!

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1682901]Quote Originally Posted by John G Smith [View Original Post]

"Just curious how often other guys here ask the SBs to close their profiles."

I do

Here's the question of monogamy vs. Polygamy that always rears it's ugly head. I am referring to SBs who you are attracted on every level and not some dingbat who is blowing you in the back seat of your car. I am in favor of IT for multiple reasons.

1) STD limitation : You never know who they are doing behind closed doors but at least they are making a commitment to you

2) emotional commitment: They are content with you and don't need to prospect.

3) financial stability : Your sugar is providing enough for their needs so they are not desperate and edging towards the Nando 1 classification.

4) amateur status : They are not as likely to be multifuckers either out of greed, desperation, or pro bookings

5) Early warning : A newly reopened profile indicates her tiring of your services and emergence of a failure if items #1 through 4[/QUOTE]I have never asked a girl to take down her profile. But I am not looking for a full time gf. And unless you are ready and have the time to fulfill all their sexual needs, why should they. Inevitably a few will go exclusive on their own with out being asked. I have had girls get weird because I an not asking what they do on their free time. Because they know what I am doing on mine. LOL. Also the type of girls attracted to these things are pretty sexual by nature.

I have had a couple of full time I pay for your whole life SB's. Way to much work in and out of the bedroom. And too expensive. For the same price you could have 4+ girls plus randoms. As far as STD"s get tested every 3 months and have them do the same. Planned Parenthood is free to all girls 25 and under

Any of you find gentleman doing it raw and depositing your seeds inaide your babies. I've been banging this 23 yr old white single mom. So far my big head have been doing the thinking, but damn it's pretty temptin that thw options is available. And she said she's taking the depo shot every 3 months.

The thing about the sb taking her profile down after signing on with you is that she is content. If their profile is still up they will continue to be hit on and are always looking for a better deal. If you are doing the same thing then all's fair. It's about expectations.

Cummin' inside your sb is absolutely insane, but amazing and I do it when they let me. It's surprising how many don't seem to care, especially the HCBs, who should know better.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;1683066]Any of you find gentleman doing it raw and depositing your seeds inaide your babies. I've been banging this 23 yr old white single mom. So far my big head have been doing the thinking, but damn it's pretty temptin that thw options is available. And she said she's taking the depo shot every 3 months.[/QUOTE]Smoke,

To me, this has disaster written all over it. What happens when she decides a Little Smoke would be a nice addition to her brood, along with 18 years of child support, and, oops, forgets to get that shot? Not to mention STDs. Are you married? Hard to explain away herpes and those monthly payments. There are many doors leading to Misery, and this is one of them. Unless you want to marry her, that is.

Brothers, am I wrong?

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1683159]Smoke,

To me, this has disaster written all over it. What happens when she decides a Little Smoke would be a nice addition to her brood, along with 18 years of child support, and, oops, forgets to get that shot? Not to mention STDs. Are you married? Hard to explain away herpes and those monthly payments. There are many doors leading to Misery, and this is one of them. Unless you want to marry her, that is.

Brothers, am I wrong?[/QUOTE]Mr. Scott,

I have to get on board with you here. Except with the STD issues. Danger goes to the insertive partner. Risk can be lowered with consistent STD testing. Condoms cannot completely prevent HSV as it spread by contact. Especially a concern since a number of you guys be eating that nasty garden tool pussy. I don't give a fuck what cha do behind closed door or in public for that matter. Dowhatchalike!

Married. Give her a STD. As long as you don't kill her. Accepted risk she took right? You two are in for life. For better or worse. Richer and poorer, Sickness and health and all that bullshit. And just reverse the situation. If your wife decided to fuck around on you, how would you want her to handle it? Practice safe sex? Use birth control? Another man impregnates your wife. You good with her having the child? If your wife is really down with you, you two can ride it out anything that life throws at ya. But 18 years of payments for unintentional womb rental. That is fucked up! And a pretty high cost for a few minutes of pleasure.

That being said, exercising good judgement is not always easy in the heat of the moment. True story. With a new garden tool. We in the mix. No mention of condoms. I hit it bare. Bust a big load up in her and then we relax for round two. Round two starts and we get to penetration 2. 0 and she says: "Don't cum in me this time. I'm not on birth control and that's how I got my son with my last ex. I'm going to have to get the morning after pill now". I'm like "Don't worry about it Baby I can't get you preg." And dive right in. Later I learn she has three children two different men. Wow! Booty bill plus STD risk. Not the best call Cmdr!

Yes, gentlemen. Hard to admit. But I am always prepared to stand and take my grade! At least Smoke is trying to think it out ahead of time. I give him A for rational thought outside of the bedroom as opposed to being caught up in the heat of moment like I was. This gentlemen is keeping it real. And why this IS the best forum on the board.

Go HAM on these garden tools and prosper!

SubCmdr out!

Thanks for the responses gentlemen.

I think most of us are rational and know very well the risks involved. However, during the moment, sometimes the little head gets the better of us all. I am having her try to bring me an STD test result this week before I bareback her, but I'll and must resist depositing any seeds in that womb.

BTW, she's a single mom with a 6yr old son. Use to wait tables at a local restaurant until she lost her job. In the process of hunting for a new job. She's about 30min from my work, but she doesn't mind taking the bus for an hour to come see me. She does looks clean with a straight head, and an average life and this is the only reason I consider doing it raw. I NEVER had it without a rubber with any girls before (except the wife). And ohh, I am only helping her out with $400 of rent a month and I see her any day I want (at least 2-3 times a week if I so desired).

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1681518]I used to be on SA and SD4me at the same time and then I switched to SD4me exclusively when I saw a lot of the same girls were on both. (As it costs them nothing to join.) SA is geared to promote the SB at a higher level of compensation due to thier ridiculous drop down bar suggesting how much compensation they think they deserve per month. And there are less girls (less competition). The super hotties on SD4me are less than the average girls on SA due to their higher expectations. I am in L. A. Can't speak for anywhere else. But it's a buyers market in most areas of the country as far as I can tell. And can only get better over time as the acceptability of this lifestyle to the young girls is growing at a dramatic rate. And not to get political, but if the current government trend of job creation continues to push only the lowest paying jobs as a way out of the recession this can only help the SD side of the equation.

In my industry (to go unnamed) as the margins have fallen due in large part to government over regulation, healthcare fears and higher taxes, many people have been layed off (especially women under 30) hiring has stalled and everyones pay has been cut. This not only increases the desperation of the girls but also has limited the ability of the hobbyist to budget the larger amounts spent just a few short years ago.

I remember going to industry conventions where guys would drop 5k in one night in a strip club. That would be unthinkable today.[/QUOTE]Interesting, other hobbiest have complained of the opposite, they are complaing that the improving economy.

Is contributed to GPS syndrome, and the true golden era is over, most of the college sb's who were affordable and normal. Are probably heading to work now or even at the low end with restaraunt and service work. I would think that most hobbiest would be spending their stock market money with the dow hitting 14k. I think if you were looking for a normal chick at an affordable rate the golden era was 10% unemployment. I think at 7% unemployment you have to scrape a bunch of UTR girls and nando's to find a gem or pay top dollar, with exception of the inner city. Though different markets are different rates.

Who first floated the idea of how nice it would be without the cover? If it was your little head, then the previous discussion covers it and you probably have all the input you need. If she brought it up "for you" then I would seriously consider getting snipped at your earliest convenience.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo; 1682328] (Edit Delete) I already received my first reply, a 32 YO MILF, but I think she thought she was on match. Com, as she said in her email that <gasp men on this site seem to be only interested in sex! I may email back and forth a bit and see if she really is that naive, but I think the odds of a home run in my first AB are low with her.

(Edit Delete) [/QUOTE]This girl could turn out to be the crème de la crème if you let things happen at her pace and don't try to push on a string. She may come from a normal background and be in a normal situation.

Another fine example of TiggaMath. Since you are contributing towards rent, you should not have any hotel bills either!

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;1683283]And ohh, I am only helping her out with $400 of rent a month and I see her any day I want (at least 2-3 times a week if I so desired).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Golfcart; 1682198]The question concerns giving out a cell number. A cell number can be googled to turn up our classified ad selling a washer and dryer and our real first name to go with it. Another question concerns a girl having our real photograph. Our real photograph is false proof she really knows us although we never met. She has the power to cause some future wife pause we must have met last week. How else would she have our photograph? Why would she do it? Because her expectations were not met. Women get mad.[/QUOTE]I thought I posted this already, but I made the mistake of using an email with the same name as my handle here. So I make a 'bid' on whatsyourprice and she did a google. Ofcourse all these posts show up. So now she lambasts me and demands I explain all my postings.

So make sure your email you use has NOT been use for public forum postings.

Create a email, name that sounds real and buy a prepaid phone that you only use for this hobby. Get one that you can text easily with, don't go too cheap. Only use the email for these type of activities. Never use an app to check your email, always login via the web.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=EuroInCincy; 1684103]I thought I posted this already, but I made the mistake of using an email with the same name as my handle here. So I make a 'bid' on whatsyourprice and she did a google. Ofcourse all these posts show up. So now she lambasts me and demands I explain all my postings.

So make sure your email you use has NOT been use for public forum postings.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BigTigger; 1684376]Create a email, name that sounds real and buy a prepaid phone that you only use for this hobby. Get one that you can text easily with, don't go too cheap. Only use the email for these type of activities. Never use an app to check your email, always login via the web.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]And fwiw, my $.02. If you use ashley madison, be very, very careful. I've a had a couple of spectacular successes on that site (hit rate is very, very low) , but I think there are people trolling that site to blackmail married guys. Per BT's point above, I've always used a prepaid cell and a web-based, totally anon email, and have had several on AM who were local, said they loved my pics and were all hot and heavy until they got my cell or email, then disappeared. Which I can only attribute to the fact that they were trying to figure out who I was, could not, and moved on to the next guy.

I've posted about this before, but now seems like a good time to re-cap. Here's what I have done, in terms of a secret identity:

1. I use a cheap burner phone paid for with cash, minutes added via cash. Untraceable, I believe. Tigg's comment about ease of texting is a good one, I have to admit. Mine is a flip phone, and so texting is laborious, but with the young babies, it is critical. I stash it in the same place every time, except for when I forget, and then I am panicked until I can find it again. This is my one weak spot. Oh well.

2. I have a dedicated Sugar email, with an address that is a play on my SA name, so it seems legit. Needless to say, neither is even remotely close to my real name.

3. I created a facebook profile, with no photo, that contains both my burner phone # and my Sugar email, so if the babies google either one, they will get an FB profile that is only what I want them to see. Most of the details are really me, so I don't have to remember every little thing, but they are also true of thousands of other dudes out there, so no possibility of tracking the Real Me down. Funny thing about FB, once I posted my fake profile there, I started getting friend requests from people I didn't know, and who clearly didn't know me, since I didn't exist. I accepted them all, thereby adding layers of "truth" to my fake page. Also, I friend-requested my email contacts from my Sugar email, and a surprising number of them accepted, thereby increasing the "legit" look of my profile. Crazy, huh? It is heavily weighted towards 20-something females, however. Would some of you like to friend me to even the balance?

4. I send out a picture if requested, but it is one that I took myself with my iphone, and I only use it as a Sugar photo, so it can't be googled back to anywhere else. It astonishes me how many babies use pics that can be found elsewhere, thus revealing their real names, identities, etc.

5. I always pay cash, unless I am booking a room on the web, in which case I use prepaid gift cards purchased through my bank, Chase, which I buy with cash as well. I guess there is a trail through the bank that would ferret me out if my SO instigated divorce proceedings, but for the average baby, there is no way to find the Real Me here.

6. I keep a clean car, with no receipts, registration or anything else that has my name on it anywhere accessible. I have it all in the wheel well in the back.

7. I describe my work as something close to what I actually do, so that I can chat about it with some kind of intelligence, but not so close that I could be googled.

So far, in three years, the above has served me well. I fully recognize that I , myself, am the weak link in this whole chain, so I try to follow my "procedures" with absolute rigor. There have been some noteable, and blood-freezing lapses on my part, however. An unused condom in my dop kit when I've come back from a road trip; leaving my batphone in my coat pocket, turned on! ; leaving a list of contacted babies on a slip of paper on my dresser (fortunately my dresser is covered with slips of paper, but still, yikes). The only baby who, I think, knew my real identity was my former ATF, and honestly at that point I think I may have wanted to get caught, so we could finally spend our lives together for ever and ever like I knew we both wanted LOL! Well, we all know where that ended up. My brothers, try not to lose touch with reality, even though you may desire the fantasy. The Bowl, for most of us, is make-believe, with both parties agreeing to play their respective parts.

I think this covers it for me, but if I remember any more tactics, I will post.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

PS - when ordering coffees at an M&G at Starbucks, for example, I always give my Sugar name, since they call it out when your order is done, or when making a reservation at a restaurant. It took several times for my "name" to roll off my tongue with anything resembling ease, but now I can do it in my sleep. Think of yourselves as a spy under deep cover in a foreign land where they will shoot you if discovered. The essence of it, I guess, is that if you can establish a compartment in your mind where you can live and operate normally while under cover, it will be easier. I had to smile while watching the movie "Argo". It had so many parallels to my own life in the Bowl. As has been said many times, never, ever, ever reveal your true self. There will only be tears and heartache ahead. Rather, fully understand that there are two of you, the Sugar you, and the IRL you, and the two should never meet, nor ever know the other one exists. You need to be able to vanish at a moment's notice.
Peace,
Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]1. I use a cheap burner phone paid for with cash, minutes added via cash. Untraceable, I believe. Tigg's comment about ease of texting is a good one, I have to admit. Mine is a flip phone, and so texting is laborious, but with the young babies, it is critical. I stash it in the same place every time, except for when I forget, and then I am panicked until I can find it again. This is my one weak spot. Oh well.[/QUOTE]Also have an excuse for the phone. Lock it. Save the SB contacts in a way that lines up with your story. Let's say, it's the "backup biz phone from the office", then save the SBs based on location or City,"DC Office","New York Office". Or you could say, I got it off Ebay or at a thrift store and have not had a chance to erase all the information with the phone numbers from the business that had the phone first. Also, since I have a Android burner phone, I created a gmail account that matches my Yahoo account. So every now and then, I'll mail them from my gmail account. That really cuts down on them thinking it's not my real name.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]3. I created a facebook profile, with no photo, that contains both my burner phone # and my Sugar email, so if the babies google either one, they will get an FB profile that is only what I want them to see. Most of the details are really me, so I don't have to remember every little thing, but they are also true of thousands of other dudes out there, so no possibility of tracking the Real Me down. Funny thing about FB, once I posted my fake profile there, I started getting friend requests from people I didn't know, and who clearly didn't know me, since I didn't exist. I accepted them all, thereby adding layers of "truth" to my fake page. Also, I friend-requested my email contacts from my Sugar email, and a surprising number of them accepted, thereby increasing the "legit" look of my profile. Crazy, huh? It is heavily weighted towards 20-something females, however. Would some of you like to friend me to even the balance?[/QUOTE]Now this one, I approach a little differently. I do have the FB and while I'm thinking about it, I may add my number. However, I do not have it open so that my friends can see other friends. I didn't want the possibility of somebody going crazy on me and contacting other "friends" and causing a bunch of drama. I was also concerned about jealousy, etc. But it does allow me to see their FB posts, pics and check out their life in general. I've dropped one or two after seeing drug or blatant immaturity on their FB page.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]4. I send out a picture if requested, but it is one that I took myself with my iphone, and I only use it as a Sugar photo, so it can't be googled back to anywhere else. It astonishes me how many babies use pics that can be found elsewhere, thus revealing their real names, identities, etc.[/QUOTE]This is a smart move. Especially if you are married. Send out no more than two. If something goes down, you can add them to your FB or Twitter and just say the crazy chick downloaded them from the site. Remind the SB, that you are the married one so it's best to meet as soon as possible instead of sending numerous pics.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]5. I always pay cash, unless I am booking a room on the web, in which case I use prepaid gift cards purchased through my bank, Chase, which I buy with cash as well. I guess there is a trail through the bank that would ferret me out if my SO instigated divorce proceedings, but for the average baby, there is no way to find the Real Me here.[/QUOTE]I have a GreenDot. It does require that you put in a real address to register, so either have a PO Box or have it mailed to your office. You load cash online or buy buying a top up card at the local CVS / RiteAid. Use cash where people may say your name and the card for purchases that you don't want people seeing, gifts, tickets, hotels, etc.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1685052]6. I keep a clean car, with no receipts, registration or anything else that has my name on it anywhere accessible. I have it all in the wheel well in the back.[/QUOTE]I need to get up to speed on this one. Right now I'm kinda booked, but once I start interviewing again, the car will have to be cleaned out.

Thanks for the lesson/remiinder Professor Scotty!

BigTigg

I saw a comment on here the other day that said do not list that you are married or tell the SB that you are married.

What do you guys think of this. I put married on my profile. But now I am having second thoughts.

Revvo

This is one that is impossible to fake unless you have a set of stolen plates, which carries it's own risks obviously.

The average college girl won't know what to do but a determined larcenous or evil SB can hire someone to trace your plates. Any PI can do it for $300