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[QUOTE=Wasobi]Yea I worked with some guys and they joked about going to get some "treinta". It may be a situation where you go a couple times with a Hispanic till they get to know you. I will send a PM if I find out more.[/QUOTE]Dude,
Share that intel when you get it, OK?
And if anybody's got info on the Dominican availablity, I'd be much obliged to hear about that as well.
Good lookin' out, mah brothas.
[QUOTE=Wasobi]Yea I worked with some guys and they joked about going to get some "treinta". It may be a situation where you go a couple times with a Hispanic till they get to know you. I will send a PM if I find out more.[/QUOTE]Yeh the atlanta mexican community is like 100 men to 1 woman so some ladies have to be getting rich selling PU$$Y. LOL
Hello fellow hobbyist,
I am visiting ATL over the weekend. I am staying in buckhead. I am very much into the hobby in Chicago. I would really appreciate if you guys could give some tips/suggestions about AMP's to hit up in the area.
Thanks
This is the old Oasis. When they reopened the reviews were not that great, but improving. Anyone have any new intel on this place (Roswell Rd.)?
Stopped by Royal at the start of the week to check out the new girls and saw Kelly. She's visiting from Houston and boy is she a Gem! Cute spinner with a great fit body and natural B's.
The TS was good with all the right rubbing in all the right areas. Went back to the room where she got undressed and got on my back for a quick massage. Not the greatest massage in the world, but then again, that's not why I went there to begin with. Finished the simple going through the motions back massage with a body rub, followed by some rubbing and pulling of my friend while the body rub.
On the flip started everything with a 5? minute CBJ which led to her mounting me for some CG action. Boy does she look GOOD! Spun her around for the RCG then leaned her over into DS. I was pounding her hard for a good 10 minutes and slapping her nice little butterfly and she took it like a champ. Finished mish.
I had a few whiners the last few times I went to Royal, but Kelly was willing to please. I'd rate her right behind Chanel in terms of service, but ahead of her in looks. Kelly is the first girl @ royal worth repeating since Chanel. She said she was 27 and she really is. She also speaks perfect english.
Total damage was 1.6 for about 45 mins or so. Now only if I could get some money together to go again.
[QUOTE=Sasay1960]This is the old Oasis. When they reopened the reviews were not that great, but improving. Anyone have any new intel on this place (Roswell Rd.)?[/QUOTE]I went a couple of days ago and had not had time to enter review.
I had not been in a while because of the poor reviews but was in the area and needed their service.
New mamasan, all new girls, all small and thin. All look to be in their 30s and are all wearing heavy makeup with the sparkly stuff on their face. (seemed odd to me)
TS was very good. Actually got more of a massage in the TS than back in the room.
Massage was OK, nothing special.
On the flip I made a few hand signals and was taken care of right away.
40 door, 80 tip
Face. 4
Body. 8
Age. Would have liked younger
Attitude. 8
Return.? Not rushing back but will probably return when I am desperate.
[QUOTE=Khada Dick]Hello fellow hobbyist,
I am visiting ATL over the weekend. I am staying in buckhead. I am very much into the hobby in Chicago. I would really appreciate if you guys could give some tips/suggestions about AMP's to hit up in the area.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Are you going to have a car? Not really any place right near you, could use MARTA (bus/rail lines) but that is not generally a preferred option.
Shadow
Glad to see a report on Royal after long time, this report wants me to go check out kelly immediately, yum yum.
[QUOTE=Wingdogg]Stopped by Royal at the start of the week to check out the new girls and saw Kelly. She's visiting from Houston and boy is she a Gem! Cute spinner with a great fit body and natural B's.
The TS was good with all the right rubbing in all the right areas. Went back to the room where she got undressed and got on my back for a quick massage. Not the greatest massage in the world, but then again, that's not why I went there to begin with. Finished the simple going through the motions back massage with a body rub, followed by some rubbing and pulling of my friend while the body rub.
On the flip started everything with a 5? minute CBJ which led to her mounting me for some CG action. Boy does she look GOOD! Spun her around for the RCG then leaned her over into DS. I was pounding her hard for a good 10 minutes and slapping her nice little butterfly and she took it like a champ. Finished mish.
I had a few whiners the last few times I went to Royal, but Kelly was willing to please. I'd rate her right behind Chanel in terms of service, but ahead of her in looks. Kelly is the first girl @ royal worth repeating since Chanel. She said she was 27 and she really is. She also speaks perfect english.
Total damage was 1.6 for about 45 mins or so. Now only if I could get some money together to go again.[/QUOTE]
In an attempt to find a good massage location (or hidden gem) with the possibility of extras, I started my travels. I started with BHC because I have received a "hand shake" there once before, and nothing on another visit. I went in a found a somewhat large women who spoke very little english. I asked who was available and she tried pushing me into a room while nodding her head "yes", and I resisted. Another woman came out of a room because of the language barrier and said to come back another day.
I left, turned left out of the parking lot and headed towards buford hwy. At the light, I turned left onto buford hwy and immediately on the right side of the street, there is a strip mall with a new Foot Massage place. I walked and saw some hotties and I thought "jackpot! ". But an older woman walked out of one the rooms in the back and jestured for me to enter that room. I was still hoping that one of the other, younger gals would join me. Instead, the older woman turned out to be my masseuse. She was okay, but I think I left with MORE injuries than the ones I arrived with. I just don't like the "slapping" or "drumming" on my body. And what is that useless fingertip pulling/snapping thing that they do? Anyway. DEFINITELY no extras. I paid, tipped, and asked to come back. Right.
Also stopped by BHC last week and had a real ugly provider. As I pulled into the parking lot she came out of her car and just rushed me into a room. Wasn't too thrilled about her, but just took everything off got on the masage table and just closed my eyes shut. She was in her mid to late forties.
She took her time with the massage with plenty of off brush strokes my my member. Despite me imagining and chaneling every young asian porn star I could think of I just could not get hard. After the flip she continued to massage and brush stroke, but could only manage to get me up half way. After a while she took it upon herself to stop playing games and started directly stroking vigorously to get me up. When I finally got to full attention, she asked "you like massage? " pointing to my now standing member. I nodded and she started a decent 2 hand stroke to get me off. I must've took her by surprise when I came because she was looking directly above my member and I shot her in her face. She laughed it off and cleaned me up. All in all the massage was worth the 40 and I tipped her 10 for her efforts. Would not repeat unless I REALLY needed a real massage.
Wingdogg out.
[QUOTE=Game Cock Too]I turned left onto buford hwy and immediately on the right side of the street, there is a strip mall with a new Foot Massage place. I walked and saw some hotties and I thought "jackpot! ". But an older woman walked out of one the rooms in the back and jestured for me to enter that room. I was still hoping that one of the other, younger gals would join me.[/QUOTE]Couple of things: First, rather extensive research shows that the Foot Massage joints on Buford Hwy are great. For foot massages. I've only had a few full-body treatments in the back rooms, since if I'm gonna get a proper massage, I go to a proper massage therapist. But a rigorous foot massage is one goddamned excellent hour of therapy. I've fallen asleep while one of those angels was working my feet. (side note: can you image a more horrific *legitimate* job than rubbing some stranger's feet for an hour? Fuck.) But extras? Not offered, not on the menu.
Second thing: Dude, if you're not satisfied with the lady who steps up to work on you, [b]fuckin' SAY SO[/b]! Those chicks in there exist for your tips, and any one of them would be thrilled for you to choose one of them over some broad you're not happy with. You'll probably get a better massage, too, if you pick someone else. Don't be bashful or meek in those places. They may draw the boundaries, but the guy with the money makes the rules, right?
[QUOTE=Shadowav]Are you going to have a car? Not really any place right near you, could use MARTA (bus/rail lines) but that is not generally a preferred option.
Shadow[/QUOTE]Yes Shadow. I will be renting a car. With that known what are my options.
Went to BHC today. Got great massage from Jody and Lisa. Same price as before. Got what I wanted. Will go back. Good price. Paid what asked plus tip.
[QUOTE=Game Cock Too]In an attempt to find a good massage location (or hidden gem) with the possibility of extras, I started my travels. I started with BHC because I have received a "hand shake" there once before, and nothing on another visit. I went in a found a somewhat large women who spoke very little english. I asked who was available and she tried pushing me into a room while nodding her head "yes", and I resisted. Another woman came out of a room because of the language barrier and said to come back another day.
I left, turned left out of the parking lot and headed towards buford hwy. At the light, I turned left onto buford hwy and immediately on the right side of the street, there is a strip mall with a new Foot Massage place. I walked and saw some hotties and I thought "jackpot! ". But an older woman walked out of one the rooms in the back and jestured for me to enter that room. I was still hoping that one of the other, younger gals would join me. Instead, the older woman turned out to be my masseuse. She was okay, but I think I left with MORE injuries than the ones I arrived with. I just don't like the "slapping" or "drumming" on my body. And what is that useless fingertip pulling/snapping thing that they do? Anyway. DEFINITELY no extras. I paid, tipped, and asked to come back. Right.[/QUOTE]
Did the woman you got wear glasses? If so, she's the owner's wife and you won't get extras from her. The one and only time I went there several weeks ago I got a great massage and HJ from one of the younger women (forgot her name), but on the second visit I had a different woman (Sarah) and, after asking for a HJ, she announced loud enough for others to hear that 'we don't do that.' And, the woman I had on the first visit looked "shy" the second time, as if the owner found out what she was doing and put a stop to it. I haven't returned.
Although it's up to you, I certainly wouldn't tip if the massage wasn't great and no extras. The massage I got there the first time was excellent, plus the HJ I got was well worth the $20 tip.
Nite
[QUOTE=Wingdogg]Stopped by Royal at the start of the week to check out the new girls and saw Kelly. She's visiting from Houston and boy is she a Gem! Cute spinner with a great fit body and natural B's.
The TS was good with all the right rubbing in all the right areas. Went back to the room where she got undressed and got on my back for a quick massage. Not the greatest massage in the world, but then again, that's not why I went there to begin with. Finished the simple going through the motions back massage with a body rub, followed by some rubbing and pulling of my friend while the body rub.
On the flip started everything with a 5? minute CBJ which led to her mounting me for some CG action. Boy does she look GOOD! Spun her around for the RCG then leaned her over into DS. I was pounding her hard for a good 10 minutes and slapping her nice little butterfly and she took it like a champ. Finished mish.
I had a few whiners the last few times I went to Royal, but Kelly was willing to please. I'd rate her right behind Chanel in terms of service, but ahead of her in looks. Kelly is the first girl @ royal worth repeating since Chanel. She said she was 27 and she really is. She also speaks perfect english.
Total damage was 1.6 for about 45 mins or so. Now only if I could get some money together to go again.[/QUOTE]
Good to hear an updated report on Royal. I don't plan to go back anytime soon but at least there's hope for the place now since the last report wasn't good.
[QUOTE=Whitebob2002]I went a couple of days ago and had not had time to enter review.
I had not been in a while because of the poor reviews but was in the area and needed their service.
New mamasan, all new girls, all small and thin. All look to be in their 30s and are all wearing heavy makeup with the sparkly stuff on their face. (seemed odd to me)
TS was very good. Actually got more of a massage in the TS than back in the room.
Massage was OK, nothing special.
On the flip I made a few hand signals and was taken care of right away.
40 door, 80 tip
Face. 4
Body. 8
Age. Would have liked younger
Attitude. 8
Return.? Not rushing back but will probably return when I am desperate.[/QUOTE]
Good report. Kinda sounds like it could be the same girls as I saw when it first changed names, but I could swear the old name was Ocean, not Oasis as someone else earlier stated.
The sparkly stuff on the eyes is usually a sign of a seasoned pro, the kind I like to avoid. But, as long as you had a good time, that's what counts.
Nite
[QUOTE=Niteluvr]The sparkly stuff on the eyes is usually a sign of a seasoned pro, the kind I like to avoid. [/QUOTE]So damn true. But new fresh girls are a rarity now. All these girls move from state to state since no new ons are coming in the country anymore.
[QUOTE=Niteluvr]Good to hear an updated report on Royal. I don't plan to go back anytime soon but at least there's hope for the place now since the last report wasn't good.[/QUOTE]Nah sounds like the same old lame scripted sequence crap. Pros always stick to that sequence of events its soo boring. Thats why I prefer apartment AMPs.
[QUOTE=Khada Dick]Yes Shadow. I will be renting a car. With that known what are my options.[/QUOTE]
Royal is most likely your best option if you are looking for spas. It's near the Buford Hwy I/285 intersection. Search here and you will get more info on it and a better location.
Shadow
[QUOTE=Shadowav]Royal is most likely your best option if you are looking for spas. It's near the Buford Hwy I/285 intersection. Search here and you will get more info on it and a better location.
Shadow[/QUOTE]I agree with Shadow. Royal is close to buckhead with decent service and girls most of the time. If you're into spending $ with good looking young pros then check out Gold. Everything else around the area are hit or miss and I advise against them. All else fails, walk by any bar or adult store and pick up a copy of creative loafing and check out the back pages for more info.
Ther. Mass. Place beside Italian optical. Place was locked so yoomee opened door. Chinese lady in her fourties. Thin and new hair do made he decent looking. Place was quiet. Told her what I wanted and she wanted $1. 2. She remembered from last time which must have been six months back. She lets you treat her any way you want. She knows I like to strip her rough. She says to take it easy but she can bang it in any position. I think she likes pups like myself banging here.
Kings Residence
Paid a little extra for Connie becuz I knew she would take her time. This time she ate ass like she owed me money and I don't trim. She took it every which way and I ended it with COTts. $1. 8 for 1hr. Massage and shower followed.
I figured one of the providers at Royal was due a hot beef injection so I stopped by. Was met at the door by Lisa the mamasan. Michelle, the other mamasan, was there too. Connie, Jennifer and Kelly were all busy, so Lisa collected the $60 door fee (said it was for 45 minutes....WTF?), gave me a thorough TS, then Jennifer came in and continued it. The TS lasted a good 15 minutes total, then we went back to the room. I motioned for FS and Jennifer said $200! I told her no way, I only had $120. She said, "That's only for a HJ." I was about to walk out and told her I never paid more than $120 for FS. I said, "Do you think I should pay $60 for the door fee and $200 for FS?" She said, "Oh, you already paid $60 to mamasan?" I told her yes so she accepted $120.
Jennifer is about 24 years old, 5'1" with natural B-cups, thin lips, no ass, shaved pussy, silky skin and said she came from Dallas two weeks ago. She disrobed and immediately went to work licking my balls. No massage, just straight to the FS portion. She's all business, or "scripted" as Gag On It said. She doesn't like her pussy touched at all and only allows fondling of her tits and ass. Did the usual mish, doggie and back to mish, then unloaded on her tits. I was there a grand total of 50 minutes.
Saw a new girl, Maya, on the way out but only from the back. Mamasan said she just got there and will start tomorrow.
Nite
Friday between 7:30 and 8:00 PM. There was a bit of excitement at Balance Health Care (and not the good kind of excitement). One of you was there at the same time as I was. PM me and I'll tell you what happened after you took off.
Nite, you forgot to mention her lopsided TTs. Just one of my peeves. I can't stand it when they're off by more than a full cup size. Lisa sent me Jennifer once and she went right back out after I saw her topless.
I'll have a report on the new girl next week, unless one of you beat me to it.
[QUOTE=Niteluvr]I figured one of the providers at Royal was due a hot beef injection so I stopped by. Was met at the door by Lisa the mamasan. Michelle, the other mamasan, was there too. Connie, Jennifer and Kelly were all busy, so Lisa collected the $60 door fee (said it was for 45 minutes....WTF?), gave me a thorough TS, then Jennifer came in and continued it. The TS lasted a good 15 minutes total, then we went back to the room. I motioned for FS and Jennifer said $200! I told her no way, I only had $120. She said, "That's only for a HJ." I was about to walk out and told her I never paid more than $120 for FS. I said, "Do you think I should pay $60 for the door fee and $200 for FS?" She said, "Oh, you already paid $60 to mamasan?" I told her yes so she accepted $120.
Jennifer is about 24 years old, 5'1" with natural B-cups, thin lips, no ass, shaved pussy, silky skin and said she came from Dallas two weeks ago. She disrobed and immediately went to work licking my balls. No massage, just straight to the FS portion. She's all business, or "scripted" as Gag On It said. She doesn't like her pussy touched at all and only allows fondling of her tits and ass. Did the usual mish, doggie and back to mish, then unloaded on her tits. I was there a grand total of 50 minutes.
Saw a new girl, Maya, on the way out but only from the back. Mamasan said she just got there and will start tomorrow.
Nite[/QUOTE]
After a tsunami of PM's, I realize now that my post about 'something' that happened at Balance could be interpreted as involving law enforcement. It did not. There was just some drama, some extremely high-raised voices and some general disorder, panic, and chaos. After I chat about it with the other dude who was there (if indeed he is a user of this board), then I will tell it publicly.
[QUOTE=Wingdogg]Nite, you forgot to mention her lopsided TTs. Just one of my peeves. I can't stand it when they're off by more than a full cup size. Lisa sent me Jennifer once and she went right back out after I saw her topless.
I'll have a report on the new girl next week, unless one of you beat me to it.[/QUOTE]
I thought Jennifer's tits were the same size. The only slightly unusual thing about them was that they had stretch marks so I asked if she'd had a kid. She said no, she used to be fat and lost a lot of weight, which explained it. Her tits were fine with me and her having minor stretch marks paled in comparison with her 'don't touch this, don't do that' attitude. Like most AMP providers, Jennifer was too regimented and not enough GFE.
I keep asking mamasan Lisa for a session but she always tells me, "Next time," which will probably never happen.
So here's what happened at Balance. Friday night, only two ladies were working, one with me, another dude is in the other room. Nobody else in the place. And if you know BHC, it's not the typical AMP setup. No foyer, no inner door. Well, apparently some asshole came in and stole both women's purses from beneath the front desk at some time between 7:00 and 8:00. They lost their wallets and keys and money, but they were both FREAKING the FUCK OUT over the fact that they lost their green cards or some other type of immigration document shit. I dunno, they were screaming at each other in Chinese, melting down big time.
I mentioned calling the police, and that sent them into another spasm of screaming and generally losing their mud. No way. So I got the fuck out of there, lucky that whoever stole the purses didn't stop to smash my car windows.
Long and short of it is: yeah, they're to blame for leaving the front door unsecure when their backs were turned. But some prick has possibly ruined these women's lives major-league, especially if they're here illegally or have outstayed their visas, or whatever the fuck. Neither of them (Lisa and Jody) even speaks English worth a shit.
I'm always EXTRA vigilant to not get ripped off when I'm out, but I never expected that the goddamn massage parlor would get robbed while I was there.
Be careful, y'all.
[QUOTE=Sec See]Ther. Mass. Place beside Italian optical. Place was locked so yoomee opened door. Chinese lady in her fourties. Thin and new hair do made he decent looking. Place was quiet. Told her what I wanted and she wanted $1. 2. She remembered from last time which must have been six months back. She lets you treat her any way you want. She knows I like to strip her rough. She says to take it easy but she can bang it in any position. I think she likes pups like myself banging here.
[/QUOTE]
Yumi is actually Korean, as is Chung, the short owner with the big tits. Yumi always told me to take it easy too, that she doesn't like to be banged too hard, but I haven't been back to see her for months now. I always tried to get Chung to give me a session as I really wanted to see her tits, but she always refused. She'll give a massage but nothing more.
[QUOTE=Niteluvr]Yumi is actually Korean, as is Chung, the short owner with the big tits. Yumi always told me to take it easy too, that she doesn't like to be banged too hard, but I haven't been back to see her for months now. I always tried to get Chung to give me a session as I really wanted to see her tits, but she always refused. She'll give a massage but nothing more.[/QUOTE]I went there about 2 weeks ago and saw a new girl Micky. Probably same age as Yumi (40ish) but cuter and if you like big nips, you will enjoy Micky.
Soloflight,
Thanks for the post. The girls getting robbed is awful and is a damn shame. These ladies don't make much at all. Who would have ever thought that someone would do that.
I did see an older Asian woman and man working there the first time I was there. The lady managed the front desk/table. Maybe she should return.
There are lots of people walking around in that neighborhood during the day.
I hope they get things back in order. I will tip more the next time I go.
[QUOTE=Pot1134]Soloflight,
Thanks for the post. The girls getting robbed is awful and is a damn shame. These ladies don't make much at all. Who would have ever thought that someone would do that.
I did see an older Asian woman and man working there the first time I was there. The lady managed the front desk/table. Maybe she should return.
There are lots of people walking around in that neighborhood during the day.
I hope they get things back in order. I will tip more the next time I go.[/QUOTE]
I stopped by BHC today. In addition to the mess of dealing with stolen keys, IDs, credit cards, etc., Lisa told me that she lost about a week's wages. She didn't have time to go to the bank and just kept the cash in her purse. These are good-hearted women and really don't deserve this. Maybe you guys who are regulars should pay a visit this week just to help them out.
It's probably not a bad idea to be careful about valuables left in the car when you park there. I'll also start scoping out the parking lot on my way to and from the car.
You guys have intel on this place?
Great Health Asian Spa
Massage & Bath
Holcomb Bridge Road
Norcross
Norcross used to be a hotspot but uncle LEO busts these places pretty quick. I've never seem them before.
A couple more ... we need intel ... I just came across these.
Angel Therapy Spa
Lithonia, GA
and
Palm Asian Spa
Manchester Street (Located Between Piedmont & Cheshire Bridge)
[QUOTE=Sec See]Kings Residence
Paid a little extra for Connie becuz I knew she would take her time. This time she ate ass like she owed me money and I don't trim. She took it every which way and I ended it with COTts. $1. 8 for 1hr. Massage and shower followed.[/QUOTE]So se eats booty but no BBBJ.
LOL how odd.
[QUOTE=Colt 45]I went there about 2 weeks ago and saw a new girl Micky. Probably same age as Yumi (40ish) but cuter and if you like big nips, you will enjoy Micky.[/QUOTE]
I went today and saw Yumi. I had asked for Micky but she was off. Did FS with Yumi and glad it was covered because I thought I smelled something when I pulled out so I did a quick "finger tease" and it smelled like she'd been doing bareback with someone. I told her and she ran to the bathroom, heard some water running and she emerged with a bottle of douching liquid, apparently trying to appease me by implying that she cleaned her pussy. I won't be seeing her again anytime soon. Seems I've had a string of bad luck running into older Asian women with stinky pussies lately.
Nite
[QUOTE=Wazoo]I stopped by BHC today. In addition to the mess of dealing with stolen keys, IDs, credit cards, etc., Lisa told me that she lost about a week's wages. She didn't have time to go to the bank and just kept the cash in her purse. These are good-hearted women and really don't deserve this. Maybe you guys who are regulars should pay a visit this week just to help them out.
It's probably not a bad idea to be careful about valuables left in the car when you park there. I'll also start scoping out the parking lot on my way to and from the car.[/QUOTE]
Now I'm starting to think I'd better not take any more money into BHC than I plan to spend because, worst case scenario, I'm lying face down looking through that hole in the massage table and some jackass sneaks in and steals my pants with my wallet, etc while the masseuse is out getting a towel or something. Then what's a monger to do? Run naked after him?
Better yet, I think I'll be the one to make sure the entrance door is locked when I come in. Seems we can't trust the girls to do it anymore. Not trying to pick on them as it's really sad that they got ripped off like that. If I'd caught the SOB who did that he wouldn't have made it out of the parking lot on his own power.
[QUOTE=Niteluvr]I went today and saw Yumi. I had asked for Micky but she was off. Did FS with Yumi and glad it was covered because I thought I smelled something when I pulled out so I did a quick "finger tease" and it smelled like she'd been doing bareback with someone. I told her and she ran to the bathroom, heard some water running and she emerged with a bottle of douching liquid, apparently trying to appease me by implying that she cleaned her pussy. I won't be seeing her again anytime soon. Seems I've had a string of bad luck running into older Asian women with stinky pussies lately.
Nite[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised. I've been with many Asian women and it's highly unusual for Asian women, especially Korean and Japanese, to have smelly pussies.
[QUOTE=Capt Ajax]I'm surprised. I've been with many Asian women and it's highly unusual for Asian women, especially Korean and Japanese, to have smelly pussies.[/QUOTE]
I agree that younger Asian women tend to be clean but some of the older ones are not. I think they just get lazy with age and care less about cleanliness.
[QUOTE=Sasay1960]A couple more ... we need intel ... I just came across these.
Angel Therapy Spa
Lithonia, GA
and
Palm Asian Spa
Manchester Street (Located Between Piedmont & Cheshire Bridge)[/QUOTE]Forget Palm they suck and change there name ever 2 weeks to hide that fact.
[QUOTE=Gag on It]Forget Palm they suck and change there name ever 2 weeks to hide that fact.[/QUOTE]Thanks,
I think angel used to be Apple.
If I'm right, it won't be worth the ride out there.