"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2583618]I just don't agree. A girl who posts on a SD site is a POT for sure. But her status at that point could be anything. NP, SB, UTR, PRO, even they don't know, almost anything. It's a crap shoot. I want them to all be first time SB's. That is my sweet spot for sure. But unless you are going to really take care of them. They will venture out more. The first timers are def the best for me overall.[/QUOTE]Your message is confusing really because I see more agreement with what I said than disagreement. If she is the type of girl who posts to an SD site, she is the type of girl who is going to expect to be "taken care of", and therefore unfit for a relationship with someone like myself who never offers financial support as part of a relationship. That doesn't mean they won't find a relationship with anyone, ever. Some men are just wired to believe they should always be the financial provider, and that no matter what their wife or partner is in effect fucking for financial support. It's just that my brain is not wired that way. I could accept that as a lifestyle choice but I cannot accept that this is a "real" relationship. For someone to be "real" to me, it means she is with me because of who I am and not because of what I have or can provide. Are those girls few and far between? Probably.

The question is, once they have signed up for the SB site, effectively confirming who THEY are, can they ever change? If they met a guy and fell in love, then he was in a car wreck and became paralyzed or got cancer or something, would they go wait tables and make an honest living in order to help pay the bills and take care of the disabled version of the man they fell for? Or, would they be inclined to fall back on old habits of making money the easy way -- or better yet saying "fuck it, why I am I busting my ass for this wheelchair bound drooling old guy"?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

That is all I meant to convey when I said I could never try to flip an SB into a real GF. I don't mind dealing with damaged goods for a one night stand or a fuck buddy but trying to make a relationship out of that would take reliance on a fantasy I just can't sign up for. When you said "But unless you are going to really take care of them. They will venture out more" it sounds more like you're on the same page than a different one.

Important to realize too that you are in a primary hooker zone out there in L. A. , so every girl you encounter is not going to represent women across the USA, particularly when you focus on a particular demographic. I've met many girls, regardless of SB or civy, that totally defy the descriptions of the girls you meet and discuss here.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2583701]Your message is confusing really because I see more agreement with what I said than disagreement. If she is the type of girl who posts to an SD site, she is the type of girl who is going to expect to be "taken care of", and therefore unfit for a relationship with someone like myself who never offers financial support as part of a relationship. That doesn't mean they won't find a relationship with anyone, ever. Some men are just wired to believe they should always be the financial provider, and that no matter what their wife or partner is in effect fucking for financial support. It's just that my brain is not wired that way. I could accept that as a lifestyle choice but I cannot accept that this is a "real" relationship. For someone to be "real" to me, it means she is with me because of who I am and not because of what I have or can provide. Are those girls few and far between? Probably.

The question is, once they have signed up for the SB site, effectively confirming who THEY are, can they ever change? If they met a guy and fell in love, then he was in a car wreck and became paralyzed or got cancer or something, would they go wait tables and make an honest living in order to help pay the bills and take care of the disabled version of the man they fell for? Or, would they be inclined to fall back on old habits of making money the easy way -- or better yet saying "fuck it, why I am I busting my ass for this wheelchair bound drooling old guy"?

I think we both know the answer to that one.

That is all I meant to convey when I said I could never try to flip an SB into a real GF. I don't mind dealing with damaged goods for a one night stand or a fuck buddy but trying to make a relationship out of that would take reliance on a fantasy I just can't sign up for. When you said "But unless you are going to really take care of them. They will venture out more" it sounds more like you're on the same page than a different one.

Important to realize too that you are in a primary hooker zone out there in L. A. , so every girl you encounter is not going to represent women across the USA, particularly when you focus on a particular demographic. I've met many girls, regardless of SB or civy, that totally defy the descriptions of the girls you meet and discuss here.[/QUOTE]Taken care of doesn't always mean financially. If a girl won't take the money she is not an SB in my opinion.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2583739]Taken care of doesn't always mean financially. If a girl won't take the money she is not an SB in my opinion.[/QUOTE]I agree. If she won't take my money she's not an SB to me. That doesn't mean she's not an SB to someone else though. What someone gets out of a relationship emotionally is a whole different topic, outside the scope of what I've been talking about, because that's always a 2 way street. Both parties benefit emotionally in a real relationship. Providing room and board is synonymous with financial support, because it's rent money saved for her.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2583026]
But I can tell you one thing I've learned in all my travels, confidence is everything in success with women. If you start out believing that no hot girl could possibly like you, your fears will come true in a big way, because you've screwed yourself from the get-go just by allowing yourself to believe that. Confidence comes from within, and once you find it, it pays off in big ways when getting pussy. Without it, there's no choice but to pay for it (and even that may not turn out as well as it could if some confidence were developed).[/QUOTE]+1 If you look at any of the "pick-up" theory, it all hinges from confidence. A lot more goes into it, but the base is confidence.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2583466]

Reminds me of the old tired joke about three things to never own -cars, boats, and women.[/QUOTE]The new HBO series Ballers has a quote like that in the first episode "If it drives, floats, flies, or fucks, lease it. ".

I've had one SB tell me that she does not do penetration but oral is ok, else her boyfriend will find out.

FYI, I'm not that big.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2582986]So about a week ago I met up with my SB. I honestly wasn't looking for FC just a dinner. But you know how things go. She was meeting "friends" for bowling so after dinner I offered to.

Walk her to her car but she said she could stay another 30 minutes. I knew she was DTF.

Long story short we are making out on my couch and I get her naked and I am getting ready to go down on her and she said that she only lets her girlfriend do that to her.

Really! So we go up to my room and fuck. So basically she will let a guy, me, put on a condom, fuck her and cum inside of her (with a condom on) but oral is too personal.

And she would feel like she was cheating on her girlfriend. LOL I love this hobby! Just when you think you have heard it all boom. Stay safe players.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Telcova;2584201]I've had one SB tell me that she does not do penetration but oral is ok, else her boyfriend will find out.
[/QUOTE]I had once a grad student who would let me screw her, but I had to let her finish me with her mouth, because if I finished while we were screwing (even pulling out), it would mean she had broken her word to her fianc (I have no idea what the actual agreement was, that's all she told me).

It was frustrating as hell because right when sex was getting good she would squirm push me off and say "stop you have to stop now", then sometimes act like she was just going to leave me unsatisfied. She never did that but it was always like this looming threat.

I started feeling like it was a BS control game she was playing, so one time I saved up a good load, and during sex I acted like I wasn't even enjoying it, then all of a sudden pulled out and sprayed her. Surprise! The look of disappointment on her face was classic, I'll never forget it.

But after that, the threshold had been crossed and it was game on, no more rules after that. I guess she figured she had already broke her rule so it was okay to keep breaking it.

I don't have the gift of gab Hollywoodguy has but perhaps someone from LA can suggest the best site for LA. I did try CL ad. First attempt I got flagged in 3 minutes each time until I got banned. Set up a new profile and posted without any replies (not even spam) .

SD4 M seems like it is abust in my area (SGV). Any suggestions welcome.

VD.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2583672]SA is best in central VA for quality and quantity of young girls. But my favorite SB ever came from SDFM. So it is worth checking them all out. I recently cancelled SDFM and had no problems. Perhaps they have improved their Customer Service Dept. The latter seems to have a lot of UTRs but since the numbers are smaller perhaps it is more obvious. One girl who always posts actually has a pimp you have to call and leave a CC # to get an appointment. That kind of crap will get the site busted when it is so overt.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2583055]Although I am sure the least confident, drug addled and ugly rock stars in hollywood still get unlimited pussy. but an average looking guy with personality will get some great girls. I have lived the full life cycle of this dynamic.
[/QUOTE]Sorry to retro-respond but I meant to come back to this earlier in an earlier conversation and forgot. There is no such thing as an unconfident drug addled rock star. Ugly? Absolutely (depending on one's opinion of good looks). By the time someone has made it to rock star status, the sheer money and popularity has inflated their ego so far beyond what I was talking about on the subject of lack of confidence it's not even funny. And, in the case of the drug addled ones, the drugs fill in their confidence when they need it. The only way they can be a rock star in the first place is if they have massive amounts of confidence in their musical talent. In that industry they also have access to lots of drugs, which in themselves can sometimes outweigh cash in terms of value on the sugar market.

All of that said, it's time for a reality check. I once heard Steven Tyler tell Howard Stern that at the height of Aerosmith's popularity, he actually had a dry spell of months without getting laid. Can you imagine that? Hard for us to fathom, but he said when he wasn't touring he was drinking and the only guys that were getting laid were the ones that had long term girlfriends that were touring with them. He seems like the type of guy who would suck a cock if there weren't enough pussy around (dude looks like a lady) but apparently his morals kicked in.

Jon Bon Jovi, who was a heart throb in the 80's (maybe not so much these days but some people still retro-dig him) claims he's never had sex with another woman besides his wife, and nobody can prove otherwise or has ever tried to.

Brad Pitt is often regarded as joe-stud-boy of the century, and lots of people would have loved to find out how kinky Angelina Jolie is when she was younger, so if sex with groupies is so awesome how come he chooses not to partake, but rather adopt a truckload of ethopian kids and stay monogamous to mama?

George Clooney, another smooth schmoozer, decides to marry an anorexic type that I can't even say for sure I'd fuck (I'd need to see full nude to be sure). Why tie the knot if infinite pussy opportunity is really bliss?

So there is evidence all over the place that just being famous does not necessarily equal confidence. Robin Williams had more money and success than myself and everyone reading this combined will have in their lifetime, yet he decides to hang himself with a freaking belt.

I'm not making light of these tragedies (and I consider all of the above tragedies, including Brad Pitts situation) but my point is that success with women is defined by what goes on inside our mind, and our minds are largely sculpted by choices we make for ourselves. Once we lose control of those choices or expect outside forces (like "rockstar status" or money) to fix them for us, we are essentially fucked.

[QUOTE=VoxDei;2584379]I don't have the gift of gab Hollywoodguy has but perhaps someone from LA can suggest the best site for LA. I did try CL ad. First attempt I got flagged in 3 minutes each time until I got banned. Set up a new profile and posted without any replies (not even spam) .

SD4 M seems like it is abust in my area (SGV). Any suggestions welcome.

VD.[/QUOTE]In los angeles SA is best. I canceled my SD4M membership today. Even in my saved SA searches, and I only have three, there are at least 30 new girls a day, maybe more.

I still got my virgin (she is so pretty to look at), but since we went platonic, and with my being able to drive a bit now. I think I have just secured 4 reliable regulars.

1. My ATF who is getting dropped down so I can see others. Once a week is plenty.
2. My x and I reunited. She wants twice a week,
3. My church girl finally caved and we are probably good for once a week,
4. And my brand new and on fire black pixie. I am high in her presence. This is going to be fun. I can only see her once a week. due to her heavy work schedule an having a GF.

Scheduled correctly thats 5 days gone a week right up front. Plus I one day off to rest. That only gives me one day to interview the new girls.

I am so very happy at this moment, especially with girl number 4. I see huge potential as this girl and I connect on many levels.

[QUOTE=Telcova;2584201]I've had one SB tell me that she does not do penetration but oral is ok, else her boyfriend will find out.

FYI, I'm not that big.[/QUOTE]My 20 y/o started out HJ only, saving everything else for her boyfiend. She commented on how long it took me to cum. I told her it takes a long time for me no matter what way. That led to her complaining her boyfriend cums too quick and often left her unsatisfied.

On my next date with her, she pulls out a condom and climbs on top of me. She ended up cuming twice before I shot my load. So from then on we have been having lots more fun together!

"Brad Pitt is often regarded as joe-stud-boy of the century, and lots of people would have loved to find out how kinky Angelina Jolie is when she was younger, so if sex with groupies is so awesome how come he chooses not to partake-and stay monogamous to mama?

We ASS-ume that every guy is like we are and seeks to screw any girl remotely in his taste range at any time. All we need is a place -right? In fact, I would argue that many if not most seek stability and the marital home fire rather than a life of debauchery. Even rich, famous, and studly guys settle for home and hearth. I would assume that Brad Pitt would bang the best of the best who throw themselves at his feet -but maybe not. And of course, the rumors fly about Clooney having a predilection for boys. Who the heck knows what the facts are behind closed doors?

Maybe some hound dawgs get it out of their systems and settle down, but I only know that the more I score, the more I need.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2584759]"Brad Pitt is often regarded as joe-stud-boy of the century, and lots of people would have loved to find out how kinky Angelina Jolie is when she was younger, so if sex with groupies is so awesome how come he chooses not to partake-and stay monogamous to mama?

We ASS-ume that every guy is like we are and seeks to screw any girl remotely in his taste range at any time. All we need is a place -right? In fact, I would argue that many if not most seek stability and the marital home fire rather than a life of debauchery. Even rich, famous, and studly guys settle for home and hearth. I would assume that Brad Pitt would bang the best of the best who throw themselves at his feet -but maybe not. And of course, the rumors fly about Clooney having a predilection for boys. Who the heck knows what the facts are behind closed doors?

Maybe some hound dawgs get it out of their systems and settle down, but I only know that the more I score, the more I need.[/QUOTE]I hadn't heard the Clooney-on-Boys rumor before (but then I'm not really a fan of his work anyway), but every time I see some celebrity who has Brad Pitt-like status get married, the first thought that enters my mind is "why? When you have all the money and the pussy in the world, why complicate things? " But then I think about it on a deeper level and I think I can relate in some ways (not to being like Brad Pitt or having his money or looks but to why he might want to spend his life doing something other than fucking as many women as possible). It goes back to something I said a few posts back about the challenge of a relationship and also the been-there-done-that-feeling of banging lots of random girls.

When I got a divorce I had this bittersweet feeling -- bummed that the marriage didn't work, even more bummed that I had to deal with lawyers, but also at the same time the realization that I was now free to go and do whatever I want. It was something that would put an evil grin on my face just thinking about it. Whenever I wasn't working, I spent my waking hours either hunting down poon online, going to bars, etc. Had lots of fun, but after a while I started realizing I was really missing something that I had before, so I started keeping an eye out for someone who was "relationship material". Much easier said than done. Part of it was that ladies under maybe 28 or so were just too immature for anything real with me, and everyone over that age usually has kids from a prior marriage or something. The other part of it is just that I am extremely picky when it comes to personality, and literally probably only 1 in 1,000 ladies have the right combination of personality traits for me to make things work with.

So, I realized that hooking up is one thing, and finding happiness was a something else entirely. Years went by and I basically had just conceded to playing the field indefinitely, I figured it was too late in life to find someone that was really for me. So I met the current GF pretty much by accident through one of my other prospects. It was hard giving up freedom and my man-horring habits, but I started realizing she might be "the one". Now, many years into the relationship, I now hold it as the part of my life that is most important to me.

So my guess is that the Brad Pitt story is something like that. He probably fucked every hottie in Hollywood for many years, to the point where his needs were simply beyond met, and there's no where for him to go mentally except to find the next level of challenge. Who knows, maybe he does still cheat. With paparazzi everywhere that's probably a really bad idea for a celebrity these days anyway.

If I were a celebrity of that status, it would be really hard to resist not having a rotating staff of hot young nannies to take care of matters when the SO travels. Maybe the SD sites would be a good recruiting mechanism for that. LOL. I'm sure sexual harassment lawsuits would be a big part of my life if that were the case.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2584759]I only know that the more I score, the more I need.[/QUOTE]The more you score the more you wh*re.

[QUOTE=VoxDei;2583206]I have been checking this website out. I searched my local area and checked out 7-10 profiles and found 4 or 5 which TinEye revealed images to be from some other sites. One had pics that looked too professional and one had multiple pictures of different women. IS this one of the sites that is being talked about here? What am I missing? It looks as if more than half the profiles are obvious fakes. Will the experience improve when I pay for the site?

VD.[/QUOTE]I just successfully cancelled my SD4 Me membership last week. Today they sent me an email offering a month free to rejoin. Not worth the money for me. The ones that I ended up meeting were also on SA. The only benefit I got was seeing the age range the babies were interested in meeting. Other than that, low number of women and a lot of old profiles.