"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2560524]HWG 1-2-3 methodology mentions $ per date and I use phrases like 'I can offer 100 per meeting' in text / email. Can I get nailed?[/QUOTE]I assume that what we are doing on this thread is talking about Sugar Babies? In that regard the gents is only paying for the girl's time and companionship, more like the traditional meaning of the word "escort" before it was appropriated / corrupted by the Sex Industry. So the gent is offering to pay for a legitimate service.

As OP have stated, one can always get nailed or jacked around by LE and arrested. However, convictions are another thing. The point is that many jurisdictions have established "case law" that it is NOT illegal to pay a girl for a legitimate service: dancing, conversation, body rubs, reading Emily Dickinson to you. So if it can be shown that a legitimate service was paid for, then it is hard or impossible to prove that any resulting sex was paid for. This is why many of the BP girls and escorts have a disclaimer that goes something like this: [I]Money is exchanged for personal companionship and not sexual actions. However, should consenting adults decide, no sexual acts should be construed to have been paid for.[/I] How is a prosecutor able to know what your "intent" was? Unless one opens their mouth, that is a private thought.

One can't explicitly offer money for sex acts. Period. One CAN pay a girl to read them Poetry, and then if Nature takes its course and two consenting adults, of the age of majority, engage in sex acts, it was in no way paid for. So if one wants to add a level of "protection" against conviction they could explicitly mention the fee is for (includes payment for) Poetry Reading, Body rub, stripping, etc. Just don't mentioning specific sex acts.

Of course nine times out of ten, when a dude does get caught with his pants down by LE, he opens his mouth, gives up his 5th Amendment Rights and admits to something illegal. Cops are trained to get you to do this. This is why the "Busted" video is so important.

All fwiw!

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2560524]HWG 1-2-3 methodology mentions $ per date and I use phrases like 'I can offer 100 per meeting' in text / email. Can I get nailed?[/QUOTE]I would think that simply specifying per date amount is probably a violation of SA's terms of service and definition of "allowance", but probably in itself not illegal since a meeting isn't necessarily sex.

However it's important to note that if the SB tells a cop you agreed to $ for sex, he can arrest you and your mug shot is now in the search engines whether you admit to it or not. , or whether he has any further proof other than taking her word for it. They might drop the charge later that afternoon but by that time the damage is done, your mug shot becomes public record and front page news. So it's not only important to not specifically specify $ for sex, its important that she doesn't perceive the arrangement as working that way -- otherwise her simple perception plus careless language with an officer could still get you arrested.

So you just have to avoid LE involvement altogether if there is any implication of pay-per-play. If you can honestly say you have never agreed to pay anything for anything, and are sure you can back it all up, then you might avoid getting arrested but it's not a guarantee. This is a position I don't like to be in at all, because if the SB goes psycho, the law is unlikely to favor our side of things.

Many years ago a girl I was banging (not an SB) got jealous and made a scene, and in order to avoid her physical blows or put myself in jeopardy of being charged by touching / subduing her, I just got in my car to get the fuck out of there. So she kicks dents in the side of my (new) car as I'm pulling out. I couldn't do anything in terms of police involvement because I was in a LTR at the time and wasn't supposed to be creeping around that night anyway. If I had gone to the cops I ran the risk of her making something up and charging me. So I just had to take my lumps (or dents in this case). Pussy is never free.

My point is that if we are playing covertly, we can't count on the law to help us when things go bad. It's kind of like illegal immigrants not being able to report being robbed for fear of being deported.

[QUOTE=Telcova;2560587]I bought one from Walmart, they are looking to verify a social security number. I tried a bogus one but it would not validate.

Suggestions requested.
[/QUOTE]My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.

For SD purposes if your goal is just to keep the transactions off one of your "known" card, I wouldn't worry too much about putting in your social. Don't put a fake SSN in, that's identify theft and is a crime in itself.

If you aren't comfortable with that you might try the gift cards.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2560723]My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.

For SD purposes if your goal is just to keep the transactions off one of your "known" card, I wouldn't worry too much about putting in your social. Don't put a fake SSN in, that's identify theft and is a crime in itself.[/QUOTE]Exactly. The charge of solicitation is usually a misdemeanor, as such there is little cost benefit to LE getting court orders to search CC records, look a surveillance tapes to identify who bought a card, etc. Er, unless one is tied to a larger crime like trafficking. It IS cost effective to get you to incriminate yourself.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2560723]If you aren't comfortable with that you might try the gift cards.[/QUOTE]

Do gift cards work on SA, SD4 M and other such sites? Can one use it for a re-occuring monthly charges for a cell phone?

Since we are on the topic of avoiding LE what should one do if busted?

If the only words out of one's mouth is "I am not saying anything until my attorney gets here" the right thing to do? Of course LE will try to scare one into admitting to the act.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2560839]...
Do gift cards work on SA, SD4 M and other such sites? Can one use it for a re-occuring monthly charges for a cell phone?[/QUOTE]Gift cards can be used wherever credit / debit cards are accepted but cannot use them to get cash from ATMs.

SD4 ME puts fraudulent charges on the card you use though in my case it was not too much about $4. Your bank may issue virtual card numbers with a set limit and expiration date which can be used on SD4 ME.

Finally check out [URL]abine.com[/URL] to keep charges off your real life card they will be masked and appear as charges from abine. There is a fee for the service and they also offer telephone numbers to use instead of your real number.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2560723]My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.
...[/QUOTE]Even if the surveillance video identifies customers matching them with the transactions will depend on the recollection of the clerk. Of course they can investigate all the cash paying customers but that will need more resources.

What sabout prepaid Vi $a from CVS or 7-Eleven. I doubt the cashier in 7-11 will ask for your social if you paid for the card with cash.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2560723]My understanding is that prepaid credit cards (which can be reloaded) aren't anonymous, while gift cards are. Well sort of. The level of anonymity is good enough to hide transactions from the wife but not truly anonymous. LE can track everything from the card or check that was used to purchase the prepaid or gift card (you could pay cash and bypass that one to some extent) to obtaining video surveillance of the purchaser (they are able to do this because of course criminals and terrorists use prepaid cards and burner phones). Not an issue for a typical SD or monger.

For SD purposes if your goal is just to keep the transactions off one of your "known" card, I wouldn't worry too much about putting in your social. Don't put a fake SSN in, that's identify theft and is a crime in itself.

If you aren't comfortable with that you might try the gift cards.[/QUOTE]

Surely it will come down to mind over matter.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2560565]So my little Hawaiian Princess has just decided that she needs some refuge from her family that she was staying with in L. A. So she made me save her and she is now living with me for the next week?. Month? I don't know and I don't really care. Now its just me feeding her and that's about it. I estimate she will cost me .3 a day at the most.

She is almost a zero maintenance girl. So totally unexpected, but what the hell. All I have to deal with is my ATF and we will find a way to manage. My princess is OK with the ATF coming over twice a week to make sure I get laid properly. So I think we will all be OK.

She is still a virgin -1 and I agreed I will not try to fuck her as long as we can do everything else. And she agreed. These are quality problems gentleman.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2560839]Exactly. The charge of solicitation is usually a misdemeanor, as such there is little cost benefit to LE getting court orders to search CC records, look a surveillance tapes to identify who bought a card, etc. Er, unless one is tied to a larger crime like trafficking. It IS cost effective to get you to incriminate yourself.



Do gift cards work on SA, SD4 M and other such sites? Can one use it for a re-occuring monthly charges for a cell phone?[/QUOTE]Yes, nobody is going to go tracing prepaid cards or burner phones unless something serious has gone down.

To the best of my knowledge, the VISA / MC gift cards work basically like regular cards and should be valid wherever those are accepted, but I'm not sure about individual websites -- they may have a way to disallow prepaid ones. One issue could come up with address validation -- perhaps not an issue on an SD site but on other sites where they are shipping merchandise -- some of them might use software that validates the address on the card against that of the individual, and with a gift card that doesn't have an address that might not go through. Someone else maybe could comment because I've never tried this. My SO doesn't see any of my bank statements and I'm careful never to do anything illegal so I just use real info.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2560857]Since we are on the topic of avoiding LE what should one do if busted?

If the only words out of one's mouth is "I am not saying anything until my attorney gets here" the right thing to do? Of course LE will try to scare one into admitting to the act.[/QUOTE]I would probably do all my talking through a lawyer.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2560878]Even if the surveillance video identifies customers matching them with the transactions will depend on the recollection of the clerk. Of course they can investigate all the cash paying customers but that will need more resources.[/QUOTE]Every prepaid card or phone has in effect what is a serial number uniquely identifying it. If LE came looking for video footage, it only takes a few minutes to see the exact time and date and at which register # that card was sold at (even if they pay in cash). Then they are about 2 more minutes away from retrieving the archived digital video clip showing the customer and the clerk performing the transaction, usually in high definition and at multiple angles.

That is, at least at any Walmart / BestBuy or reasonably modern place. Some of the video surveillance systems are sophisticated enough that they can do it in one step -- type in the serial # of the item and watch the video, all in seconds. I'm sure if you bought a prepaid card at a small no-name gas station or store where the owner doesn't keep his cameras working, then it could be harder of course. But good camera systems are cheap and easy these days and even the rural no-name stores usually have them in good working order. It might take a little longer to find when the card was sold, but they have less records to sort through as well so in most cases the video would be readily available if LE really wanted it.

Again though I wouldn't sweat this at all as an SD. Hopefully nobody is doing anything shady enough to have a need for that level of anonymity. It's good enough for hiding transactions from the wife.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2560185]
My personal belief is that anyone 21+ messing with someone under 18 should be in trouble. Apparently several legislatures do not agree with me.[/QUOTE]What kind of girls do you think they like? They're not going to pass laws that get themselves in deep trouble. They're stupid, but not THAT stupid.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2560857]Since we are on the topic of avoiding LE what should one do if busted?

If the only words out of one's mouth is "I am not saying anything until my attorney gets here" the right thing to do? Of course LE will try to scare one into admitting to the act.[/QUOTE]My bust (BP, NOT SD) was very different from the norm. I knew they were in very sketchy territory so I said nothing and denied everything. "I was there visiting a friend. No, you can't look at my phone". The one mistake I did make was I gave them I'd when asked. My lawyer later said it was a very gray area and they probably could've forced me to give it anyway.

So there's two uncles & one aunt in the room and it was very obvious they were frustrated by me. Kinda funny looking back on it. They didn't know what to do so they let me go. I walked to a nearby business, waited for them to leave, then walked back, got my car & left. They contacted me a couple hours later and told me they swore out a warrant. The very ambiguous & uncle friendly bawdy place statute. Do other states have this, or just mine?

I went to see a lawyer the next morning and then turned myself in with him at my side.

Bottom line: Shut up & deny. No matter what they say or what the situation is, they are NOT your friend.

[QUOTE=Crow999;2560888]What sabout prepaid Vi $a from CVS or 7-Eleven. I doubt the cashier in 7-11 will ask for your social if you paid for the card with cash.[/QUOTE]The social doesn't come into play at the time you buy the card, typically they have to be activated before you can use them, and I guess CC require social (or at least some of them)? If its a reloadable credit card, it will need a way for you to add funds to it at some point. If it's a gift card / prepaid debit, then as long as the website accepts them I suppose if you paid cash you're probably as anonymous as one can get.

Nothing remotely connected to the Internet or computers is truly anonymous. There are more ways to track someone than could even be discussed here. Just getting a prepaid card or burner phone is enough to throw the wife off the trail, but beyond that it would barely put a speed bump in the road for LE.

If the purpose is to not have one's real name in an SD site membership list (in case they get hacked like AM did with the threat of members published), then as long as the website accepts the card it should be good enough.