"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here but Scotty brought it up.

Significant Other? A general question (s) for the group.

Does having an outlet in the Sugar Bowl

A) improve your relationship with the SO?

B) deepen the divide that is already there?

C) Have no effect.

For the single guys :

Do you prefer Sugar Dating over traditional relationship building?

Do you think having access to all these hot babes prevents you from establishing a real relationship?

And the question that has been on my mind lately:

Is the HCB going to wipe your ass when you are in the nursing home?

Big Tigg You absolutely ROCK! You must be one hot Dude for these young girls to give it up for next to nothing. I agree with Scotty, I need counseling with you to lessen the tab and still have them coming back.

F Scott My Man! You are scoring some serious Quan. You must be a Don Juan as well. I am proud of you!

If any of you guys swing through VA and don't have a date. Let's have a drink. Drop me a PM.

Peace Out

Nando, I'll give you my thoughts. And they're mine alone, I don't pretend to speak for others.

When I was married, being in the Bowl definitely created more tension for me. Not because of the sex or emotions, but because of the money - or rather, the efforts to sequester money for play from the prying eyes of the SO. I know that some of us are better at that than others; the couples that have kept their finances highly separated find it much easier to do this than those of us who more completely merged their finances. Some might say that this is a very good reason to keep the finances separate. I know that when I entered into my marriage, hiding money from my spouse for any reason wasn't on my radar, and I would tend to question a relationship that saw the need for that from the start, but that's just me.

As for my now-single play, there's no doubt that sugar gives this out-of-shape 50's-vintage warrior access to younger and more attractive women than I would otherwise ever dream of connecting with (I'm leaving in a few to have a first meeting with one of those hot young things.) Unfortunately, my experience has been that sugar tends to increase the drama associated with the course of a relationship. I can't say that I prefer sugar relationships to traditional ones. But I sure do prefer them to the long dry spells that come between traditional relationships.

But the sugar babes have not prevented me from establishing a solid relationship with a wonderful woman who unfortunately lives half a continent away... indeed, they've made the dry spells between her visits bearable. I don't see it as sugar-vs-non-sugar, because ALL relationships are based in barter. We each have needs we seek to fill in our lives with others; a relationship works when both parties are getting their needs met, whether those needs are financial or otherwise.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1641974]For the single guys :

1. Do you prefer Sugar Dating over traditional relationship building?

2. Do you think having access to all these hot babes prevents you from establishing a real relationship?

And the question that has been on my mind lately:

3. Is the HCB going to wipe your ass when you are in the nursing home?[/QUOTE]Answers:

1. They both have their advantages, but sugar dating gives me access to younger, more attractive women.

2. Not at all.

3. No, but no one is going to do that for me anyway.

Hernando- You have obviously put some thought into this yourself for some reason. The same type questions occurred to me this weekend as I was celebrating several decades of marriage with my own SO. Married since college, practically grew up together, normal ups and downs while raising 2 kids and paying the mortgage, etc. Etc.

For me, sex was always a huge part of our relationship when we were younger. She was an average to above average looker and age has taken its toll on both of us over the years. We still have an active sex life, but the sessions are not nearly as intense as they were before I entered the SD world. When we are in bed together, the obvious comparisons always come up in my mind that dampen the excitement for me. Luckily, I've never had a problem with getting it up almost on command, but I always worry that this might not always be the case in the years to come because she just can't compare to the the thoughts of that last HYCB that I have been with.

On the brighter side, she has never desired sex nearly as often as I have, and this has left me frustrated and angry often throughout the years. That frustration has resided since the SD good times and we probably fight a lot less over this topic than in the past.

I have to admit though, I was right in the middle of a romantic evening with her just last night, and couldn't get the thoughts of my current ATF out of my head. That can't be good for a relationship.

Just my opinion.

Alias.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1641974]I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here but Scotty brought it up.

Significant Other? A general question (s) for the group.

Does having an outlet in the Sugar Bowl

A) improve your relationship with the SO?

B) deepen the divide that is already there?

C) Have no effect.

For the single guys :

Do you prefer Sugar Dating over traditional relationship building?

Do you think having access to all these hot babes prevents you from establishing a real relationship?

And the question that has been on my mind lately:

Is the HCB going to wipe your ass when you are in the nursing home?

Out[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=F Scott;1640411]I have to say at this point that while I was pleased to have given her the kind of thing she wanted, (snip) I'm just not into the whole spanking thing. I guess I'm happy to oblige, if that's where a baby wants to be taken, but it does little to nothing for Scottie and me by itself.[/QUOTE]Well, frankly, it [I]is [/I]my thing. Unfortunately, my current SB doesn't care for that sort of thing. Considering her background, I can't say that I really blame her. Fortunately, there's no lack of [I]other [/I]things that she [I]does [/I]care for that I don't feel the lack.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1640411]The pleasure for me, I now think, is in the reaction of the baby, not the action of spanking, if that makes any sense.[/QUOTE]It makes a lot of sense, at least to me. I consider myself fortunate in that applying such techniques to someone who doesn't like them herself does absolutely nothing for me. A real, healthy, BDSM relationship requires a great deal of trust, in both directions, to work properly. That level of trust is hard to attain in the more casual type of encounters I've enjoyed with strippers over the years, though there have been occasions. My SB and I [I]do [/I]have that level of trust right now, and she trusts me not to do it. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Hernando;1639384]In my experience I have found that paying at the time of service keeps everyone honest. We can all talk all day long about the definition of escort vs prostitute vs SB vs Friend with benefit, and it is like politics, everyone has their own spin on it. But the bottom line is that if a girl is providing services to a guy for money that has been negotiated in advance and a requirement for the relationship to prosper, then it is prostitution.[/QUOTE]Agree completely. Mind you, I don't consider prostitution, in and of itself, any more immoral than any other human activity, so that's in no way, shape or form, a derogatory attitude, in my opinion.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Hernando;1641974]Significant Other?[/QUOTE]In the form of a wife, yes.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1641974]A) improve your relationship with the SO?[/QUOTE]It takes certain stresses out of it, yes. From [I]her [/I]standpoint, as well.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1641974]B) deepen the divide that is already there?[/QUOTE]Absolutely not.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1641974]Is the HCB going to wipe your ass when you are in the nursing home?[/QUOTE]Nope. That's what my retirement fund is for. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

Gentlemen,

Like many of us, I assume, I got into The Bowl for a variety of reasons, not the least being that I was not getting something I needed at home, and I am not referring to merely sex. I have been married more than 30 years, and at present have a "working relationship" with my SO, and by that I mean that there is genuine affection and love, but no passion to speak of. As I say to any baby who asks why I am doing this, I reply "I'm not ready to be old just yet."

For me, these relationships offer a chance to be Peter Pan for just a bit longer, and to be with someone who thinks, or pretends to think, I'm fun and interesting, and who wants to fuck me, (or pretends to want to LOL!)

I don't think my adventures have created a different dynamic for me at home, but I do confess to having sporadic panic attacks when I imagine that I have left tracks that my SO could discover. So far, so good, though there have been a few close calls, mostly involving misplacing the batphone, or an imprudent written list of names and appointments on my dresser. Fortunately there are so many other scraps of paper that it was a case of hiding in plain sight, but still. Yikes!

For me, the biggest issue is the amount of effort it sometimes takes to set up an FC visit, especially if it involves a motel. This may be why I have more luck, and more fun, on the road, when the whole room question is taken care of.

As for the emotional component, in thinking back, when I was in the Happy Place with my last ATF, and getting the emotional connection I was missing in real life, I remember that I felt far less deprived at home, since I was getting that need met from my baby. As things stand now, I am more discontent at home than I had been, and I think now this is why I am seeking more than a hook-up out of The Bowl. Simply a spirited fucking does not seem to be hard for me to achieve. It is the "something more" that is the more challenging aspect.

Hope this all makes some sense. I am making arrangements for the coming week, and have Bond Baby, the one with the boyfriend / husband, inked in for the entire afternoon on Wednesday, this time at a hotel! She has requested champagne for a refreshment, and I am excited to see her again. We have unfinished business!

Peace,

Scott

This is a very timely and interesting topic. Yet another example of why this is the best thread on this site.

I too have a SO that seems to have lost the ability or desire for passion and intimacy. While I've always used the excuse of lack of same for jumping into the bowl, there is a lot of frustration there. I haven't seen my ATF in over two months and only 3-4 times in the last six months, so so much for the intimacy there. I subscribe to the theory that there is a finite amount of the 'Rat to go around so whatever is given to a baby, by definition takes away from the home front. It may be a fucked up theory, but if we really think about it, we are cutting our own throats at home with playing around with the babies. Again, my opinion.

Personally I would prefer the passion and intimacy coming from the SO, but due to whatever reasons, I've pretty much given up on that. Even when things were normal with the ATF, we would get together once or twice a month and that was fine with me. While not eliminating the desire at home, it did relieve the frustration knowing that someone cared about you and wanted to be intimate. I think we all need a little reinforcement at times, especially those of us who are getting a little up in years. As I've said before, I really haven't had much luck with the really young babies. My ATF is only about a decade younger than me, and her sugar requirement ceased a long time ago so I'm probably not the norm here. It definitely made this old guy feel pretty damn good when we did get together as it was only because we enjoyed each others company rather than her needing Christmas money or whatever.

I have been seeing a civie gal lately, mostly for drinks with a couple of visits to the FC. Like most babies I've ever met, there is a lot of baggage that comes with this one as well, which of course enters into the relationship. Between her and the ATF, the 'Rat is pretty much worn out emotionally with the effort involved, so I'm not really interested in adding to the baby total at this point. We've talked a lot on here about effort and reward, and I'm presently not prepared to put in the effort.

As a final note regarding the wiping ass question, I asked my new civie gal if she would change my diapers when I got to that point. Her reply was that was a wife's job, and if we were married she most definitely would. Not exactly sure how to take that, so I'll probably just let that one die a natural death.

I have been on SA for a month now and have not had too much success to share or write about. I hope that my luck will change soon. Any other suggestions beside SA in which others have had better success? I also noticed that SA has a SM section. Anyone every try or consider the SM route to supplement the SB stable you have?

Thanks for all the input guys.

It is interesting how many of us are in the same boat. The take home message for guys who aren't in the Sugar Bowl is.to read this blog before getting tied down, right?

The facts of life are twofold :

1) Genetics / hormones work against partnering for life

2) even the most exciting relationship / partner gets stale as the years wear on.

And the most interesting sentiment noted from our entries in general is that men are looking for more intimacy than they are getting at home. Contrary to popular opinion about players just wanting to score more sex, we are seeking love and affection, that meaningfulness to our relationships. The girls in the bowl, particularly the under 30 crowd, do not want intimacy. They are seeking excitement, new experiences, money, consumer goods, and are avoiding being tied down. What a reversal is it not?

[I]"And the most interesting sentiment noted from our entries in general is that men are looking for more intimacy than they are getting at home. Contrary to popular opinion about players just wanting to score more sex, we are seeking love and affection, that meaningfulness to our relationships. The girls in the bowl, particularly the under 30 crowd, do not want intimacy. They are seeking excitement, new experiences, money, consumer goods, and are avoiding being tied down. What a reversal is it not?"[/I]

Thanks for the efforts here, Nando. I can't say I'm surprised by the results. It's an issue I've been battling with almost my entire time in the club, once I got past the astonishment that I could get a 20 yo into bed with me in the first place!

I am sitting at home with a bit of free time on my hands, unfortunately, since a baby I was going to meet this morning for coffee is apparently standing me up, again! This will be the last time I try and set something up with her, although she is so totally my type that I am crying just a little as I type this, but my new mantra for 2013 is "Onward." I am curious to hear, if I ever do, what her excuse is for not confirming with me this morning. I finally got smart and tell all new POTs that I will not head to our meeting place, in this case 30 mins away, unless I hear from them in the morning that we are still a "go."

The whole thing has made me think back on the many, and creative, excuses I have gotten from babies for missing their appointments. One of the more outlandish ones was "Sorry, but my dad got arrested for something really bad, and I had to go and bail him out"! Needless to say, there was no second meeting. I have also been told "I got into a serious car crash. I'll get in touch when I get out of the hospital." And this from a baby who was at the same moment logged into SA, which I could see since I also was. I guess she was typing using a pencil in her teeth!

So, I put the question to the brotherhood: what are some of the most outlandish, unbelievable excuses you have gotten for missing a rendezvous?

Onward,

Scott

I think I've been amazingly lucky on this (knocking on wood.) I've only been stood up a couple times, and both times the girl texted me within a few minutes of the appointed time to apologize. One was a car breakdown, the other admitted to falling asleep. Shit happens; I'm not going to hold life's honest accidents against someone, but if I smell the stench of burning BS they won't get another chance.

I've had more that I wish hadn't showed up! . One that demonstrated the power of careful picture cropping (she didn't look large in the pic but when she showed up in was obvious she shopped for clothes in the Camping Equipment section at Dick's.) One that had THE nasal, whiny, fingernails-on-chalkboard voice from hell. And several that the IQ of an old BodArk fencepost.

Interesting topics. What I like about this forum is that we're able to have a bit of self-awareness about ourselves.

The topic is timely for me because I might be back out in the market again for a new SB (s). I don't know yet.

My Escort Baby is in the wind. I haven't heard from her since before Christmas. She hasn't posted any new ads either to my knowledge. But I'm not too surprised by this and never really had much expectations for her.

I met up with the Asian College baby right before Christmas and we actually had a great M&G. We got along very well and she kept saying how surprised she that it was going so well. However at the very end of the date, she said she couldn't go through with an "arrangement". She wanted to tell me earlier supposedly but I was already in traffic on the way. But I think the real reason is, she didn't need the money anymore. A day before our meetup, her family invited her back to Korea to stay for a month during her school break. So even though we got along, she didn't need the money bad enough anymore to sleep with an older guy she just met. That said, since we did get along so well, I have a feeling she may be open again toward an arrangement a few months from now when she has money problems again.

And then there's my ATF. As mentioned earlier, we had an issue where she didn't give me any honey on our date after I gave her all that sugar. It was pretty much resolved, but then a week or two later I said I wouldn't be giving her "extra" cash and stuff until we got the sex / intimacy back on track. However the ultimatum was poorly timed since apparently she was going through a lot of other stuff too (when are they not?). So she got upset and wanted to end the arrangement. The problem is she actually had some feelings for me, which actually complicated a lot of things. Neither one of us knew exactly where the boundaries of our arrangement and friendship were. And she actually did have some feelings for me because even though our arrangement currently is over, we're still talking / txting everyday. She still wants to be friends and spend time together occasionally, but doesn't want an actual arrangement anymore. It's hard to say where things are going to go from here. Things might just eventually fizzle out or it could morph into a real relationship.

So these recent experiences did prompt me to sit back and think, The last couple of months I've spent a lot of time, energy, and money on sugar babies that is being taken away from the SO. If I was trying to truly fix my marriage, I wouldn't be doing this. I'm not trying to fix my marriage, I'm just trying to make it survivable. Like others have stated, the passion is gone from my marriage. My SO looked great when she was younger, but she was always lazy when it came to exercise. So when the kids came, it took a toll on her body which she never bothered to work on. Also she became a more angrier person over the years, which turned me off to her. But still, we do have a pretty good partnership and great kids, so I need to find a way to make it work for now. The sugar world has been a way for me to be content in my current marriage situation.

That said, another problem lately is that the better the sex has been getting in the sugar world, the frequency of the sex I'm having with the SO has gone down. My SO just lies there, never does oral, and etc. So it's hard to get up the desire for her compared to HYBs who go at it like sex fiends and more open to trying new things. I need to fix this though because this may end up being my undoing. Sex droughts with an SO like this can clue them in that an affair might be going on.

So without a doubt, while the sugar world is helping me survive the marriage, it is damaging my relationship with my SO. But I'm okay with this because my SO stopped trying to fix / improve our relationship long ago. So I've finally given up as well.

As for being stood-up, I've never been stood-up for a M&G. Primarily because I always confirm the morning of and then when I'm literally heading out the door to meet the person. So I've had cancellations, but I've never been stood-up because usually I catch it before hand. I tend to see 19-22 year-olds and girls at that age are notoriously flaky, so I know to always double confirm. Also some girls may just get too nervous, so I like to give them an opt-out before I waste my time driving and waiting.

Good information to share and timing is good as usual. Just got stood up today in fact. SB was one of my backups and we have met several times in the FC. She is always fun but not as passionate as my ATF. She is heading out of town soon for good and wanted to meet a few more times before she left. Texted me several times over the last week trying to schedule something and I finally agreed to yesterday. She was good with it the night before, confirmed all was still good arounf noon the day of the meeting, then tells me at 3:45 that she can't make the 4:30 meeting. Luckily I hadn't yet booked the room. I didn't ask for the excuse because they are almost always lame and I suspect that she overbooked because she wanted to score one final sugar payoff for sure before leaving town.

The most common reason I get from a SB is that she has her monthly visitor. Hard to argue that one. I like DATY way too much to play when the visitor is in town, so I appreciate the honesty when that happens.

We all know this isn't a perfect hobby. The noshows are just another price we pay to play.

Alias

" The sugar world has been a way for me to be content in my current marriage situation." John G Smith.

This my friends, is the common thread in this world. I have counseled extensively trying to find the magic answer for my discontent, and no one has it. The bottom line is to suck it up and try to make the most of a less than perfect situation or change it up. Divorce is so radical but perhaps the best long term solution because one can be free to pursue happiness openly instead of on the down low. But. , and there are lots of buts. Money, children, society, job are all impacted, but the impact is greater still if you are caught in flagrente dilicto (sic?) There is a great deal of energy spent planning a tryst. 1st finding a POT, meeting and wooing her, setting up the FC, arranging the $$$ under the radar, hitting the right blend of communication and interaction between NSA vs emotional attachment. Whew! It's exhausting! If we all spend as much time and energy on our legit endeavors we would be happily married kings of industry.

Soooo, to play or not to play, that is the question. And since you are reading this you have chosen to play. I must say, I really like the energy of the Sugar Bowl. It is exciting and fun as hell. Maybe the danger adds that extra zing to life. And nothing is better than popping a HCB SB (or whatever your choice of treat is ). I have happily settled down with one SB so do not have the stories to tell like you entertaining Lotharios, but I enjoy hearing them immensely. I am pursuing emotional attachment instead of multifucking at the moment My SB is very reliable, always considerate, and a pleasure to be around. I love 20 somethings!

From the Las Vegas non-pro thread.

[QUOTE=Max899;1643663]I had another wonderful time with my UTR girl. She came over Saturday about 5pm. She let me take her to dinner afterward. She wanted Pizza and I was thinking the same thing. Total damage including pizza was 2.90. However 2.5 hours was given including dinner. She is amazingly sweet and nice, I can't get enough of her. I asked her what her thoughts were about a sugar daddy / sugar baby relationship were. She was non-committal. I suppose I should have expected that. What is the general thinking on converting a hot 21 yr old from a CG to a SB?[/QUOTE]I have been reading your thread quite a bit and decided to ask the same question here. Can you take an amazing CG that you connect with well and bring her into a SB role? I would love to hear your thoughts on this, or if you have tried and what the results were.

Thanks!

Max

[QUOTE=F Scott;1644838]*** The whole thing has made me think back on the many, and creative, excuses I have gotten from babies for missing their appointments. ***[/QUOTE]Scott, she know she can because she did. The fat and ugly ones don't play games.

Operator error here.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1645961]If we all spend as much time and energy on our legit endeavors we would be happily married kings of industry.[/QUOTE]I'd venture to say that for that sort of guys, the pursuit of that business throne *is* their sex. We pursue what we crave.

" Can you take an amazing CG that you connect with well and bring her into a SB role?" Max899.

Max, tread softly here. You can take the girl out of the country but you can't take the country out of the girl. Whaaaat? I think Elvis or somebody said that. But my point is that she is imprinted into that lifestyle just like we are in the Sugar World. She is used to having multiple guys on tap for a larger payday than probably you are willing to give her, if she is halfway successful. A beautiful escort I once knew told me she earned $180, 000 / year running her ass off but still ____. Obviously your CG hasn't jumped at the bait you dangled so she wants the independence, money, and probably lack of intimacy she achieves with you and her other Johns. Just enjoy her when you are together and keep looking for a real SB to fill that role for you.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1647015]" Can you take an amazing CG that you connect with well and bring her into a SB role?" Max899.

Max, tread softly here. You can take the girl out of the country but you can't take the country out of the girl. Whaaaat? I think Elvis or somebody said that. But my point is that she is imprinted into that lifestyle just like we are in the Sugar World. She is used to having multiple guys on tap for a larger payday than probably you are willing to give her, if she is halfway successful. A beautiful escort I once knew told me she earned $180, 000 / year running her ass off but still ____. Obviously your CG hasn't jumped at the bait you dangled so she wants the independence, money, and probably lack of intimacy she achieves with you and her other Johns. Just enjoy her when you are together and keep looking for a real SB to fill that role for you.[/QUOTE]I totally agree with Nando on this one. There is a difference in intent in the mind of a CG vs an SB, and while I do not want to drag out the tired old debate about it all being prostitution, I would also argue that it is likely she has crossed the line, in her mind, and would be hard to "deprogram." Plus, if you did get her to agree to be your SB, I'm guessing access to the kitty would diminish. You know the old joke,"How do you stop having sex with your girlfriend? Marry her", or something like that. The Bowl is a lot of work, with uncertainty being a constant, as you know if you have read this thread. Even the most dependable SBs can become flighty from time to time. As Nando said, enjoy your special CG as often as you can. If you fill her dance card with regularity, what does it really matter what she does for a living? If the time together is as great as you say, why take the chance of fucking that up?

Onward,

Scott

The title we place on our relationship partners is irrelevant. The relevant factor in ANY relationship is if are we satisfied with it. What I read in the forum is a attempt to make one type of relationship perfect for all needs. That is not possible. What is possible is to discuss with our relationship partners our true needs. And to establish the boundaries needed for each party to feel satisfied and secure in the relationship. When that is done, the title of our partner does not matter. We joyfully provide the needs of our partner as long our partner provides the needs that we desire. The real problem is lack of honesty. We don't deal with or partners in a intellectually, spiritually, emotionally and otherwise honest manner. When we do that. When we are dishonest. We fail our partners and most of all we fail ourselves.

Subcmdr out!

I'm on my way to meet a pot SB right now, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Max

Guys I am new to this forum. I have spent quite some time in the Stripclub world and I am intriqued by the SD / SB option. I have been voraciously reading the reports on here and I am learning.

I have quite a few take out situations with strippers but that can lead to quite a bit of drama. I Have read about 1/4 of the way through and will continue to read it.

But I did have one small question. Do you bring a gift to the first meeting or M&G with a prospective SB?

If so what is considered an approriate gift? Something small I would think?

Thanks,

Revvo

Revvo. First, welcome to the best forum on the site and probably one of the most extensive discussions of the SD / SB scene on the Internet. We look forward to your contributions in the future.

You will find extensive discussion of the question you pose throughout the forum, but I'm not sure you will find agreement. As with a lot of other things in life, the answer depends on a number of variables. I have tried both approaches and really can't say that the gift has made much of a difference one way or the other by improving the potential for an eventual trip to the FC. My gifts are usually small tokens though ($50 range) , so who knows if a larger amount would provide different results.

A lot also depends on the SB you are trying to seduce. But to summarize the input I recall from the experienced members on this board, it is not considered "mandatory" from most contributors on here. In fact, you will often see advice not to spend ANY money on a potential SB until a FC visit has been consummated. I think that view is a little extreme (I always pay for a nice lunch, dinner, whatever as part of the first date. Occasionally, depending on how much I want to impress the pot SB, I will include a gift. I never pay a substantial amount of money out of pocket until after the first "successful" meeting in the FC.

You will find many variations on this theme throughout the forum though. Some on here believe that spreading the sugar early and often is a wise investment. I think the final answer for you may depend more on YOUR financial situation. If you have a lot of discretionary cash, out of view of your wife or SO, it is much easier to get off on the right foot by turning it into sugar and hoping for a return on the investment sometime later.

Again, enjoy the hobby and welcome to the group.

Alias.

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1649482]Guys I am new to this forum. I have spent quite some time in the Stripclub world and I am intriqued by the SD / SB option. I have been voraciously reading the reports on here and I am learning.

I have quite a few take out situations with strippers but that can lead to quite a bit of drama. I Have read about 1/4 of the way through and will continue to read it.

But I did have one small question. Do you bring a gift to the first meeting or M&G with a prospective SB?

If so what is considered an approriate gift? Something small I would think?

Thanks,

Revvo[/QUOTE]

Revvo,

I'm not giving these garden tools jack on a M&G. The M&G is a job interview. Pure and simple. When was the last time an employer paid you for your time for a job interview. Expenses to travel and go through the interview yes. Pay no.

By providing a gift initially you are sending the wrong message."I'm a sucker and I will give even though I don't get jack." Oh no, that's not me! Now if you ain't got no game and can't rap to these garden tools then yes, use brute force and throw some money at them in the form of a gift.

Got to keep the CPO low. I've said in the past the Cmdr's pockets ani't fat so I be counting dem digits.

Subcmdr out!

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1649482]Guys I am new to this forum. I have spent quite some time in the Stripclub world and I am intriqued by the SD / SB option. I have been voraciously reading the reports on here and I am learning.

I have quite a few take out situations with strippers but that can lead to quite a bit of drama. I Have read about 1/4 of the way through and will continue to read it.

But I did have one small question. Do you bring a gift to the first meeting or M&G with a prospective SB?

If so what is considered an approriate gift? Something small I would think?

Thanks,

Revvo[/QUOTE]

I do provide a gift card, normally Starbucks for $10-$15. This was a suggestion from Mandy I thought Mandy I thought was a good idea. Since a long term SB will require significantly more than that I see it as an investment. Unless she is not going to get another chance, in which case I shut down and move on ASAP.

Take this for what it's worth. I have also spent a lot of years chasing dancers for takeout [I]and [/I]dine-in. I stumbled into being a sugar daddy, and have only had this one baby.

[QUOTE=Revvo;1649482]But I did have one small question. Do you bring a gift to the first meeting or M&G with a prospective SB?[/QUOTE]Are you contemplating attempting to turn a stripper into a SB? If so, I would definitely suggest holding back the "gifts" until some period of time [I]after [/I]the sugar has started to flow your way on a consistent basis; strippers will suck you dry, and not in the good way, in a heartbeat if you let them, though if you've been doing the strip club thing for a while, you already know that. (:

If you're talking about availing yourself of any the various sugar related sites on the internet, it might be a different story. A M&G for a non-stripper sounds like it's going to be a significantly different vibe than the relatively simple business transaction it is with most strippers.

[QUOTE=Revvo;1649482]If so what is considered an approriate gift? Something small I would think?[/QUOTE]Based on the discussions I've seen here, the [I]consensus [/I]seems to be that the coffee / lunch / dinner part of the M&G is sufficient. Gas money might also be appropriate in some cases.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

First let me add my welcome to the Clubhouse, Rev. As has been said, this is the best thread on the forum, and you will find all of the brothers more than willing to share intel, tactics, successes and failures. Good luck to you in your pursuits.

As for gifts at the first m&g, I side with those who see it as unnecessary, and perhaps even as setting a bad precedent. I try to arrange the first meeting at a Starbucks or some place like that for a couple of reasons: it's public and open, which should make you both feel comfortable; limited time committment - the length it takes to drink a coffee if things are going badly which can easily be extended if things are going well; minimal cost - I do always pay for her beverage, and a muffin or other thing like that if she wants it, but rarely does this top $10. The one time I offered to pay for gas, the baby blew up, saying if that was all she was worth to me then this obviously wasn't the arena I should be dabbling in! Huh? This was before we had even met!

Having said all this, if there seems to be a solid connection, and the forecast calls for a trip to the FC on the near horizon, I do like to show a little affection in the form of a gift card, a bottle of wine or champagne, or something else that she might have mentioned in your conversation, like a scarf or perfume - something that shows that you were listening and are a sensitive, thoughtful guy. Since I prefer the artistic, creative types, a really nice sketchbook and a dozen pencils often does the trick. It is amazing what 20 or 30 dollars spent in this manner can gain you in rewards later on. I stress, though, that this is only after I feel there is promise in the situation. I think of it as a token, not a bribe.

Again, welcome to the club, good luck in your endeavors,

And don't forget to write!

Scott

Welcome, Revvo. I back up what the others have said. I don't see up-front sugar doing anything but setting a bad precedent. I always make the first meet at Panera's for lunch or coffee. As Scotty noted, such a place is safe, convenient, inexpensive and a good first test of the baby's attitudes and expectations. If she hesitates or indicates that she expects a fancier place, it's a big tell on how she'll behave later.

I have on two occasions offered to pay for the baby's gas, when she was driving a considerable distance. One of those turned out to be a complete mismatch once we met FTF, but I kept my promise; the other one was orally appreciative before she left. Otherwise, I've never offered up-front sugar without FC time, and if a girl indicates that she expects it, I take it as fair warning of unrealistic expectations.

As for strippers, I have a hard and fast rule: no pros, and that includes strippers. Especially strippers, in fact. You will on very rare occasions find a "hooker with a heart of gold", but you will never find a stripper that's such. A hooker is (usually) used to making a straight-up business transaction and knows that she has to deliver her side of the bargain, but a stripper's whole job is to swindle you into giving them as much money as possible while they give you as little as possible, and stats show that most strippers do it at least in part because they have serious man-hate issues. I have run across at least a dozen strippers that are seeking SDs, and *every one* I've talked to had really unrealistic expectations as to what the market will bear and what they are willing to do for it. The couple I've tried out were horrible lays to boot, whining about giving head and generally being really dead fucks. So no, no strippers, ever.

Welcome Rev,

If the M&G is in the FC or the SB's residence I always bring flowers. In fact, I give live plants so that is the gift that keeps on giving, if she nurtures it well. My last precious ATF HCB could have started a florist shop over the 1 1/2 years we were together. After we broke up she probably did. The nice thing about not giving a lot of expensive jewelry is that you aren't financing her next semester tuition after the fact knowing the minute you are apart she will sell it for precious metal value.

If you meet in public or your own house the meal / drink is the gift.

Thanks guys for the advice on the gift thing. I will stay away from that for now. I have read about half way through the entire thread and I am learning a lot. I really like to get advice when I can. I have made enough expensive mistakes along the way and appreciate all of your words of wisdom.

So I want to give a brief summary of where I am right now and what my current experiences have been. I have not subscribed to any of the SD sites yet because I am still reading all of the adventures on here. But I have had some success and failures with my attempts into the Stripper world. I know this does not quite fit in with the whole SB thing but it is where I am coming from.

We will call my first one RSSB1 for Revvo Stripper Sugar Baby:

RSSB1: Met her in a SC not too far from my hometown. But she lives in the same city that I do but not too close. She was easily the best looking thing in the club. After some small talk she danced for me and it was great. I progressively got more and more mileage to the point of something was going to happen to get us in trouble. Then I asked her for what it would take to talk her out of here. She offered me her number. Right away. Now there were a couple of good things about this girl. First she is absolutely gorgeous blond, blue eyed a good 8 head and 8 body, about 5'4" and a great rack 27 yo, two kids. She is really cool never even asked me for the money. In fact she had to get up for a few minutes to go onstage and I had not even paid her. This is amazing for a stripper. But I did pay her and she did not even count it. I texted her the following week and we met in the club again. The dances were even hotter and it went amazing. Now a week later I texted her to set up a meeting to play. She agreed and asked for $400. Being a newbie I screwed up here I agreed to the price and did not attempt to negotiate. Now reading on here I believe I went too high. We met for lunch and went to the hotel. I had a 4* beautiful hotel for $58 from hotwire. Great deal. We drank some more wine in the hotel bar and went upstairs.

Man the sex was amazing. She was very accommodating BBBJ, BBFS, she was all over my cock and great dirty talk. 2nd Mistake I lost my mind and never put a condom on and she never even asked. Afterward she had told me she was clean and never did that kind of thing. We fucked for about an hour 2 pops no rushing and she came I believe twice. I pounded that pussy every which way I could think of. But now I was worried about STD's and pregnancy. Man what a stupid thing I did! I got a STD test two weeks later. I used one of the online test outfits which is aligned with a very large national laboratory chain. It was extremely discreet and well worth the $230 to know I was clean of everything, a full 8 panel test.

Anyway we left and the whole time she was asking me to call her soon to get together again. It was a great GFE. Lots of affection and touching and kissing and talking nice time.

I met her two weeks later for a 2nd rendezvous and we did drinks and a hotel. Before we got to the hotel she texted me and asked for $500 and I said no. She accepted and we were back to the $400. Now she was starting to get into more money. We went into the hotel and had a good time but not quite as great this time. A little rushed not too bad. But not like last time. We get along really great and she is great to hang out with as well as fuck. But I did feel a little distance. Will try to set something up in a little while but I want to wait first. One bad thing is she drinks a lot. This could be a problem.

I have been told by SC Mongers that the original money will come down over time. Just all on its own just don't be too available. But what I have read here tells me the opposite. The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. Is there any thoughts on this? Meanwhile on to other opportunities.

The second one we will call C. She is a very sexy 21 yo mixed race latina stripper at a local high end club. She is about a 7. 5 head and a 8. 5 body. She is kind of thick but in a very good way. Very athletic build. Not an ounce of fat. However she is fairly new to the game about 6 months and she has this beautiful wild bedroom hair, and oh so sexy ass and legs. She is very sweet and genuinely seems interested in me. We will see.

This club does not offer any extras so mongering in here can be hit or miss. I put the best game I could on her got some dances and actually got her to break the rules quite a bit. This to me is a good sign. Another one that did not ask for her money. And waited for me to give it to her. I asked her the same question, about takeout and she readily gave me her number. We went back and forth on the phone and texting for a couple of weeks and our schedules conflicted a lot. But she was always anxious to get together and every time we tried something came up for her or me. She never stood me up. She would always text me to let me know. Finally this weekend I texted her and she said she was having problems with rent and new semester tuition. She is a junior at a major university in town. I have verified this.

So I tell her. Sweetie I can help you out with this but you will have to help me out also. Right away she responds with I can do that. No issue of money or any negotiating. Good sign.

So I am looking at this week for this one. Will set up later this week. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated. I have two more but will need to be continued on the next post. Getting late. I may let these two and the two others play out. And by that time I may be ready to transition over to the full SD / SB websites.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1649904]Revvo,

I'm not giving these garden tools jack on a M&G. The M&G is a job interview. Pure and simple. When was the last time an employer paid you for your time for a job interview. Expenses to travel and go through the interview yes. Pay no.

Subcmdr out![/QUOTE]I fully agree with the cmdr. Shoot most I have done do is fill up their tank. But that was only after she did the full oral passing part of the job interview.

C'mon how much does it really cost to drive to an interview. 100 miles. So 3- 4 gallons. See'mon if they ask for that. They are toooo desperate.

Great report, you seem to be on the right path. Taking strategic chances, learning from your mistakes and keeping at it. I'm sure you will do well in the Sugar Bowl.

I have some other updates to give, but I'll have to get to those later.

BigTigg

" The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. I " Revvo.

Absolutely correct. Strippers and other professionals are experienced at piecework and everything has an upcharge. You admittedly made a rookie mistake in not evaluating the market, so you need to go back and demand what YOU think is fair. You are the boss by the way, the man with the gold. He who pays says. (who said that?) What you have to be able to do is walk away from the table if her needs are out of sync with yours. At first you think " how can I be so lucky that this hot chick will sleep with me for any price?" You have to get to the point where you think " This chick is lucky to get a guy like me for $50 / night " Read Big Tigg entrys. He is the master of low cost high performance SBs. I figure he must be hotter than the rest of us to get these ladies to open up to him for so little.

Another axiom " the hotter the daddy, the cheaper the Lassie " (Confucius)" The older and less in shape the more you will have to spend to open up the cookie jar." (Peanuts)

My advice is to meet newbie SBs. They are not hardened to the economics yet and are more grateful with a regular gent who takes care of her needs. Also avoid Nando 1s. Their needs are never ending.

Despite my own experience in this area, I would not hold out much hope for for getting stripper as a sugar baby, per se. You might get a regular OTC thing going, which can be quite as good, so it's not a worthless pursuit. (:

[QUOTE=Revvo;1650576]But now I was worried about STD's and pregnancy. Man what a stupid thing I did! I got a STD test two weeks later. I used one of the online test outfits which is aligned with a very large national laboratory chain. It was extremely discreet and well worth the $230 to know I was clean of everything, a full 8 panel test.[/QUOTE]Not to scare you too much, but two weeks is not long enough to wait for all of them. You should get tested at [I]least [/I]once every eight weeks for the next six months. Some of the bacterial things can take several weeks to ferment in your body, depending on your age, health and resistance. HSV and HIV can take longer to show up in blood work.

[QUOTE=Revvo;1650576]I have been told by SC Mongers that the original money will come down over time. Just all on its own just don't be too available. But what I have read here tells me the opposite. The experts on here refer to the original price is the bar you set for now and forever and it will only go up. Is there any thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]My experience has been the same as your "SC Mongers". It might be different for sugar babies, I don't have a wide enough experience with enough of them to say, but strippers can start to look at you as an easy source of quick cash, and will often start to accept less just to get some in their pocket. Especially if you let [I]them [/I]call [I]you [/I]once in a while.

[QUOTE=Revvo;1650576]We went back and forth on the phone and texting for a couple of weeks and our schedules conflicted a lot. But she was always anxious to get together and every time we tried something came up for her or me. She never stood me up. She would always text me to let me know.[/QUOTE]I hope this works out for you. That is classic stripper deflection behavior though, designed to get you back in the club and spending on her. If you [I]have [/I]been back to the club since she started doing this, then you might be out of luck. But if you decline to spend as much in the club and use the "I'd rather see you get it all than having to share it with the club" type of approach, it may eventually work out for you. If she stops calling or answering when you do that, you'll have your answer.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

Interesting. $3-4000 a month? Damn!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/fees_coeds_looking_for_sugar_daddies_XpBL7EERN37rlfD9jzDNsI

[quote=exacta picker; 1651409]interesting. $3-4000 a month? damn!

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/fees_coeds_looking_for_sugar_daddies_xpbl7eern37rlfd9jzdnsi[/url][/quote]the average is no where close to $3-4k a month. i'm sure the sa spokeswoman just threw that out there as a promotional tool to get more coed sign-ups to the site.

but i do think we're in the "golden age" of the sugar world. basically a combination of a lethargic economy and sd sites coming into prominence is causing there to be a boom for us men. we don't even have to be mufti-millionaire sds. you basically just need to be a guy who knows how to manage his finances and has some disposable cash to play with per month. and even though we got annoyed with the hype from the sugar daddy blogs, it's those blogs that push "normal" college girls and struggling women into the moral gray area of the sugar world by hyping up unrealistic prince charming sd scenarios. some girls will leave the sugar world after understanding the reality of things, but others will stay and try to get something out of it that is modest but still helpful.

a few months ago, i think i brokedown both sds and sbs into tiers. essentially the small percentage of model 10 girls will be gobbled up by the small percentage of super rich sds. most of the blog fantasies are written about this small percentage. of course there's always exceptions. and there's still a ton of very attractive sbs that might not be willing to be a super rich guy's pet but are more open to a presentable well-off looking sd who can occasionally help them out while they continue with their regular life. basically right now during the golden age, any sd is capable of getting an attractive girl and the sb supply far outstrips the legit sds.

that said, i do think we probably have just a couple more years of the golden age. as the sugar world gets more and more publicity, eventually the puritans of america will step in and start making things difficult. and it just takes for 1-2 bad stories such as a sd sleeping with an **** sb or a sd having some kind of sex dungeon with multiple college babies for the whole thing to come crashing down. nothing last forever and i have a feeling we're close to reaching critical mass where just by the numbers something bad will happen that will get public attention.

that's why i like to reach out to sbs i haven't seen in a while, just to keep in touch. you never know when the whole thing could go underground.

Interesting observation JG. I have to admit that I wonder about many of these SBs who were brought up in decent homes, probably taught appropriate moral behavior, and who are willing to sell themselves. Of course we SDs are buying so we are complicit in perpetuating the the system. On one hand I am grateful that we are able to "help" these needy young women but at what cost? This phenomenon goes waaaay beyond a small % of girls. SA has published numbers which I forget at the moment but they are significant. So even excluding the desperately needy unemployed and single mothers, middle class college girls are casually seeking easy money to make ends meet, or even to gain a thrill, add to that wardrobe, whatever the motivation. I asked several therapists who see these girls what is up? The answer is financial need, on line opportunity, and a desensitizing of moral limits brought on by the Madonna, Brittany, Paris, Kardashian role models. Girls are shown that they, like men, can use their sexuality to forward their agenda in life. Exit June Cleaver and Doris Day. Which attitude is better? Probably somewhere in the middle. I know that I don't want my daughter in the Sugar Bowl. A double standard? You betcha. See you on SA