MotorCity Mayhem

[QUOTE=Concupiscent69;5137838]I suggest you learn about that original Democrat stimulus bill and the language it pertained. It involved financial support to other countries and federal areas who shouldn't be receiving a dime. Why do you think it was 500 + pages which needed to be read within an hour or so? It's also sad how you make the assumption of knowing the intent of a politician, as many other people do also. You don't have to like one party or the other, but get real and realize they are both fucking us one way or another and neither way is good. They are ALL in it to fill their own pockets.

Frankly, I believe all people who favor one party or the other and fight each other with the assumption each must THINK exactly like the person who they voted is pure stupidity and ignorant. It's fucking sad the two major parties (and their supporters) aren't mature enough to get along and yet, expect us to be a world leader who sets an example. I said it before, it is they who got us in this mess, why do the fools believe it is they who will get us out of it? The entire governing bodies needs a serious overhaul so it can truly serve the people who pay their overwhelming and outrageous salaries.[/QUOTE]This isn't true, and I see people on the far left and far right saying it. There were two bills. A stimulus bill which included the things you'd expect (PPP loans, $600 checks, etc) and a spending bill that keeps the government open. The vast majority of that foreign aide in the govt spending bill was suggested by the Trump administration. As was the money for the Kennedy Center, which Trump specifically mentioned in his speech. All sides agreed on it. And at the last minute Trump decided to throw a fit and claim he wouldn't sign a bill his own government negotiated. As he has done before, when right wing media starts attacking his government's actions.

The problem with Trump and his supporters is that they run with nonsense that a quick google search would debunk. Which is why today Trump accused Georgia's secretary of state of being a Chinese agent because his brother works for a Chinese company. When in reality, the Georgia secretary of state doesn't have a brother. And Trump would have known that if he had simply done an ounce of research instead of picking up nonsense from right wing media and automatically sharing it with his massive audience of supporters.

[QUOTE=GolDark;5137666]Someone repeating "inbred white lemming" on a forum for hookers every day isn't exactly a situation that forces one to "grow some balls," "fight back," "be a man," and "stand up for yourself. " You can add users to your block list, scroll right past through their repetitive posts and generally ignore them with no real consequences to be had.[/QUOTE]You sound like a teacher in school saying "just ignore him," Maybe you should take your own advice and add me to your ignore list so I don't have to hear you cry anymore.

[QUOTE=GolDark;5137666]Using phrases like "fighting back" and "standing up for yourself" also has the implication that you're doing something that actually affects the outcome of future actions by some perpetrator, but as I check these posts, Smoothdriver just gets on this forum the next day, calls you an "inbred white lemming" and gets your panties in a bunch again to the point that you reveal yourself to be the racist loser that you are. Got to give him credit for being a master troll, at least.[/QUOTE]Like I said I not a racist I'm a realist, and it sounds like the words that I say got your panties in a bunch.

[QUOTE=GolDark;5137666]Pretty sad definition of "being a man" if I must say so myself.[/QUOTE]I'm entitled to my opinion and so are you.

[QUOTE=HeadsUp313;5138264]I believe it was 5000 pages and they were given two hours to read it. And yes, a Covid relief bill should only be money for working people in the US. 30 million us tax dollars sent to Nigeria for ant farm research is fucking ridiculous.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the correction. I missed a 0 and have no way to edit. Regardless, you get the picture.

[QUOTE=Concupiscent69;5137838]I suggest you learn about that original Democrat stimulus bill and the language it pertained. It involved financial support to other countries and federal areas who shouldn't be receiving a dime. Why do you think it was 500 + pages which needed to be read within an hour or so? It's also sad how you make the assumption of knowing the intent of a politician, as many other people do also. You don't have to like one party or the other, but get real and realize they are both fucking us one way or another and neither way is good. They are ALL in it to fill their own pockets.

Frankly, I believe all people who favor one party or the other and fight each other with the assumption each must THINK exactly like the person who they voted is pure stupidity and ignorant. It's fucking sad the two major parties (and their supporters) aren't mature enough to get along and yet, expect us to be a world leader who sets an example. I said it before, it is they who got us in this mess, why do the fools believe it is they who will get us out of it? The entire governing bodies needs a serious overhaul so it can truly serve the people who pay their overwhelming and outrageous salaries.[/QUOTE]Your so funny mr lemming white middle-class republican defending and deflecting for the rich like a nice white rich inbred boy. Everyone knows it was the republicans that were giving all the money to the foreign countries and giving the US citizens a slap in the face 600 dollars, all on Moscow Mitch's watch and you lemming white broke rich defending white middle-class republicans deflect again and blame the Democrats for what Moscow Mitch did. Fuk you!

[QUOTE=TheBro;5138288]This isn't true, and I see people on the far left and far right saying it. There were two bills. A stimulus bill which included the things you'd expect (PPP loans, $600 checks, etc) and a spending bill that keeps the government open. The vast majority of that foreign aide in the govt spending bill was suggested by the Trump administration. As was the money for the Kennedy Center, which Trump specifically mentioned in his speech. All sides agreed on it. And at the last minute Trump decided to throw a fit and claim he wouldn't sign a bill his own government negotiated. As he has done before, when right wing media starts attacking his government's actions.

The problem with Trump and his supporters is that they run with nonsense that a quick google search would debunk. Which is why today Trump accused Georgia's secretary of state of being a Chinese agent because his brother works for a Chinese company. When in reality, the Georgia secretary of state doesn't have a brother. And Trump would have known that if he had simply done an ounce of research instead of picking up nonsense from right wing media and automatically sharing it with his massive audience of supporters.[/QUOTE]Trump whines about many things but he isn't the only problem in government. You believing he is simply continues this animosity, especially when saying the exact thing I said earlier and you just read. Assuming all Trump supporters think the same is asinine and ignorant on your part. Many Biden and Democrat supporters do the same thing. You need to give it a rest with that bullshit.

[QUOTE=SmoothDriver;5137630]This head up his azz 313 is such a lemming white middle-class republican that he has stooped to calling me a jig and all other black racist names when I am white. LOL, you hate it because I know how you racist white rich lemming white middle-class republicans think. Lemming white middle-class republicans luv to defend the rich and vote way out of their low pay scale, talk about guns the lemmings are hooked. Talk about race and lemming white middle-class republicans will say they are the minority, another joke. All lemming white middle-class republicans talk about is stupid inbred conspiracy theories. Trumps lost and trumps and his cult can all suk dik. Lemming white middle-class republicans are all talk behind your back cnts who would saying nothing to me face to face like a cnt does.[/QUOTE]Hey, bring your shine box up to the car wash tomorrow, after you shine my rims you can shine my shoes.

[QUOTE=HeadsUp313;5138291]You sound like a teacher in school saying "just ignore him," Maybe you should take your own advice and add me to your ignore list so I don't have to hear you cry anymore.

Like I said I not a racist I'm a realist, and it sounds like the words that I say got your panties in a bunch.

I'm entitled to my opinion and so are you.[/QUOTE]One main problem I frequently observe is the issue of factual data. When stating data that depicts a culture or group, in this case, blacks, as a negative, it's racism. Yet, when blacks, or other groups state negative facts against whites, it's factual. Try saying proud to be white when all others can say proud to be black, Mexican, Asian, etc. It's a double standard.

[QUOTE=Concupiscent69;5138304]Trump whines about many things but he isn't the only problem in government. You believing he is simply continues this animosity, especially when saying the exact thing I said earlier and you just read. Assuming all Trump supporters think the same is asinine and ignorant on your part. Many Biden and Democrat supporters do the same thing. You need to give it a rest with that bullshit.[/QUOTE]You're 100% right, Trump is not the only problem in government. And while I don't think all Trump voters believe the same things, most of them have fallen for one of the most laughable cons in political history. This guy does not give a fuck about the common man, and never has. He spent decades screwing over the common man in New York, where his real estate empire was created by largely refusing to pay contractors after jobs were completed. That hissy fit he pulled by threatening not to sign the stimulus bill? It's a common real estate tactic. You come to a deal, then at the last minute threaten to blow everything up unless you're given new concessions; the thought being if someone agrees to a deal, they must be desperate to keep the deal and therefore will agree to new concessions. Everything this guy does is a two bit con or grift.

I ask myself, why do Trump supporters blindly praise a man obsessed with aggrievement and perceived slights. Why do Trump supporters watch this man cry about being treated unfairly, and then tell us he is a strong man. Why did they watch this man lie about the smallest, most irrelevant things (crowd sizes, historical events, what tariffs are, recorded interviews, scientific facts, etc) and believe him? Trump is a proxy. For many things, but the biggest thing is resentment and aggrievement. People who are so angry that they just want this thing we call a system torn down by any means. And they will cheer him on no matter what, to whatever end as long as he destroys it. Hell they watched him botch a pandemic response that has killed 300 k+ Americans and couldn't care less. There is nothing he could say or do that would turn them off. So yes, I find MOST of his supporters to be distasteful to put it lightly. If you're a rich or well off guy voting for Trump, I'm fine with that. Lord knows his tax plan benefits me more than Biden's would. At least in that case you are voting for an interest. But these poor white people, and working class white people who think a classist from New York who talks about "bloodlines" gives a fuck about them? I'd laugh if I wasn't disgusted.

[QUOTE=Concupiscent69;5138328]One main problem I frequently observe is the issue of factual data. When stating data that depicts a culture or group, in this case, blacks, as a negative, it's racism. Yet, when blacks, or other groups state negative facts against whites, it's factual. Try saying proud to be white when all others can say proud to be black, Mexican, Asian, etc. It's a double standard.[/QUOTE]Assuming you're actually ignorant about these things and not stating them in bad faith, I'll explain them.

On the issue of facts:

It's not the stating of facts that's an issue, it's the conclusion drawn from said facts. People stating that the prison population is disproportionately minorities would be correct, but they typically use such facts to conclude that minorities are just naturally criminal somehow and as a result are inferior. When the real cause of most crime is simply poverty and minorities are more disproportionately poor (won't get into reasons why here, that's for another debate).

On the issue of white pride:

Pride is the opposite of shame and when people discuss things like gay pride, black pride, Mexican pride, etc. , they are celebrating their right to exist and not to feel shame for something that has been used to shame people like them in the past (namely, race and sexual orientation) and has been used as a reason for oppression and hate crimes. In the US, people have not been shamed at a societal / institutional level for being white because whites have always held structural power. So "white pride" has an entirely different connotation altogether. "White pride" is used to intimidate and harass oppressed groups and that's why white supremacists use it as a catch phrase.

Of course anyone who wasn't born yesterday understands why saying "white pride" and something like "gay pride" are completely different things and why they're met with different reactions from people. You'd have to ignore all historical and societal context to say the 2 are equivalent.

[QUOTE=SmoothDriver;5138084]And know mr know it all. Puking thinking I have met too many clowns like you. At least you know trumps suks dik. Now fuk offfff internet step child.[/QUOTE]You contributed nothing to the conversation. At least the other even though they disagree, say something from their POV. All you do is insult lmfao. Fuck off, done with this thread.

[QUOTE=TeeTime69;5138245]The bipartisan Bill for $2000 came as an 11th hour response to Trump's call for it. It wasn't all Trump wanted. He wanted an Election Commission and repeal of Section 230. Since the House bill ignored these elements, it was left to Mitch to craft a version suitable for a Trump. Signature.

The other point I'd like to throw out. These checks are economic stimulus checks, not living wage, not an unemployment check substitute, not rent checks etc. It's easy to see why there is criticism when there is a mischaracterization of what they are.[/QUOTE]My problem is most Republicans don't have any DEBATES / DISCUSSION when they give HUGE tax breaks for the elites or big corporations. But for the STIMULUS, even though the House passed it, they WILL NOT EVEN PUT IT UP FOR A VOTE?

What the fuck is that? Don't give any excuses why. It's simple. They don't want to be on record if they said no.

Also how is 1 fucking person (Mitch McConnell) so powerful. ALL HE HAS TO DO IS SAY: "I OBJECT" no reasons, no explanations whatsoever. Bam. No vote on this fucker and no one can challenge.

The positions of party floor leaders are NOT even included in the Constitution, its some shit that just came up in the 20th century.

I get that these are economic stimulus checks. But what are you really going to do when government FORCE lockdown / shutdown places and people are out of jobs? Please don't tell those people: "Just get a job bro".

[QUOTE=BadBosco;5138168]At first, they were annoying, now have become totally comical. The "wealth" I currently have was achieved by my own hard work, College education that I paid for (by working two jobs sometimes), a professional job that I had for over 30 years, and a small business I own on the side. There is absolutely no reason why anyone (regardless of color or gender, etc.) could also accomplish. IF THEY WANTED TO! Ther key is "WANT" to, much easier to sit around ranting about poor-poor pitiful me. Collect you welfare check, buy your soda, snacks and junk food with your bridge card, enjoy your free health care. I work along side of people that grew up in the ghettos of Detroit, but instead to complaining about their life they took advantage of what was offered (education) and made something out of their life. IT CAN BE DONE.

Go through any town or city and you can see help wanted signs all over, ya, not the best jobs in the world, but it's a job. Start there and work (obviously offensive word to some) your way up or into a better job.

And lastly, if it is that bad for you here in this country, just move to another one, please, just move and let someone else support you, because we (people that actually take responsibility for their own life) really don't need you here, and we would much rather keep the money we EARN opposed to paying your way because you are too lazy or ignorant to make your own living.[/QUOTE]I NEVER SAID IT CAN'T BE DONE. I'm fortunate enough that I did not lose my job due to covid or any downsizing etc. I work hard and got promoted several times within 7 yrs. Me getting a stimulus is just a SIDE BENEFIT. I empathize with all the families that lost their jobs and out on the street or really close to being evicted because $600 is not fucking enough and why should you settle for any less? Look at other countries stimulus and plans. For so called the wealthiest / greatest country in the world. We are NOT showing that to our people. And if you think so then you're naive as fuck.

DON'T GIVE ME THAT SHIT where you just tell me to go move to another fucking country. How about we fix what's broken and make it better for everyone so the fucking gap is smaller instead of it getting larger and larger.

[QUOTE=SenorVac;5138723]You contributed nothing to the conversation. At least the other even though they disagree, say something from their POV. All you do is insult lmfao. Fuck off, done with this thread.[/QUOTE]Little cnt boy says now he is taking his marbles and is going home to cry to mommy. Moscow Mitch suks dik along with lemming white middle-class re4.

LOL go suk dik. Moscow Mitch and lemming white middle-class republicans like this head up his azz 313 can suk sum dik and not get anymore government aid.

[QUOTE=BadBosco;5138168]At first, they were annoying, now have become totally comical. The "wealth" I currently have was achieved by my own hard work, College education that I paid for (by working two jobs sometimes), a professional job that I had for over 30 years, and a small business I own on the side. There is absolutely no reason why anyone (regardless of color or gender, etc.) could also accomplish. IF THEY WANTED TO! Ther key is "WANT" to, much easier to sit around ranting about poor-poor pitiful me. Collect you welfare check, buy your soda, snacks and junk food with your bridge card, enjoy your free health care. I work along side of people that grew up in the ghettos of Detroit, but instead to complaining about their life they took advantage of what was offered (education) and made something out of their life. IT CAN BE DONE.

Go through any town or city and you can see help wanted signs all over, ya, not the best jobs in the world, but it's a job. Start there and work (obviously offensive word to some) your way up or into a better job.

And lastly, if it is that bad for you here in this country, just move to another one, please, just move and let someone else support you, because we (people that actually take responsibility for their own life) really don't need you here, and we would much rather keep the money we EARN opposed to paying your way because you are too lazy or ignorant to make your own living.[/QUOTE]Your white privilege got you your wealth along with hard work and you try and say it's the same for minorities? Only a lemming white middle-class racist republicans think that way. That's what's fuk up in this country you have all these dikhead white lemming republican guys running like this badbasco little cnt saying it only takes hard work to make it in this country as he is white and never experienced being a minority working your balls off to get passed over for a promotion tome and time again because your not white. Then this clown bad basco sticks says get out of the country if you don't like getting discriminated against. Know it all badbascos you might have been on welfare if your so called " hard work" was met with no pay increase or promotions like what happens to minorities. Don't try the your the minority that all white lemming middle-class republicans try to pull. It's never been equal coming from this white guy who's seen it all step child.

[QUOTE=SenorVac;5138745]My problem is most Republicans don't have any DEBATES / DISCUSSION when they give HUGE tax breaks for the elites or big corporations. But for the STIMULUS, even though the House passed it, they WILL NOT EVEN PUT IT UP FOR A VOTE?

What the fuck is that? Don't give any excuses why. It's simple. They don't want to be on record if they said no.

Also how is 1 fucking person (Mitch McConnell) so powerful. ALL HE HAS TO DO IS SAY: "I OBJECT" no reasons, no explanations whatsoever. Bam. No vote on this fucker and no one can challenge.

The positions of party floor leaders are NOT even included in the Constitution, its some shit that just came up in the 20th century.

I get that these are economic stimulus checks. But what are you really going to do when government FORCE lockdown / shutdown places and people are out of jobs? Please don't tell those people: "Just get a job bro".

I NEVER SAID IT CAN'T BE DONE. I'm fortunate enough that I did not lose my job due to covid or any downsizing etc. I work hard and got promoted several times within 7 yrs. Me getting a stimulus is just a SIDE BENEFIT. I empathize with all the families that lost their jobs and out on the street or really close to being evicted because $600 is not fucking enough and why should you settle for any less? Look at other countries stimulus and plans. For so called the wealthiest / greatest country in the world. We are NOT showing that to our people. And if you think so then you're naive as fuck.[/QUOTE]You obviously slept through 10th grade government class.

[QUOTE=GolDark;5138496]Assuming you're actually ignorant about these things and not stating them in bad faith, I'll explain them.

On the issue of facts:

It's not the stating of facts that's an issue, it's the conclusion drawn from said facts. People stating that the prison population is disproportionately minorities would be correct, but they typically use such facts to conclude that minorities are just naturally criminal somehow and as a result are inferior. When the real cause of most crime is simply poverty and minorities are more disproportionately poor (won't get into reasons why here, that's for another debate).[/QUOTE]18.8% of blacks populate the poverty level in the US.

15.7% are Hispanics.

7. 3% are Asians and the same are white.

There's a small (3%) difference from Hispanics and black, yet the difference in prison population between those two races is almost tripled with blacks being incarcerated over Hispanics. It's not just a matter of poverty, it's a matter of cultural structure, whereas Hispanics have a greater level of family value and religious upbringing to keep them grounded. The same doesn't apply to blacks. Trait plays a major role.

[QUOTE=GolDark;5138496]On the issue of white pride:

Pride is the opposite of shame and when people discuss things like gay pride, black pride, Mexican pride, etc. , they are celebrating their right to exist and not to feel shame for something that has been used to shame people like them in the past (namely, race and sexual orientation) and has been used as a reason for oppression and hate crimes. In the US, people have not been shamed at a societal / institutional level for being white because whites have always held structural power. So "white pride" has an entirely different connotation altogether. "White pride" is used to intimidate and harass oppressed groups and that's why white supremacists use it as a catch phrase.

Of course anyone who wasn't born yesterday understands why saying "white pride" and something like "gay pride" are completely different things and why they're met with different reactions from people. You'd have to ignore all historical and societal context to say the 2 are equivalent.[/QUOTE]The ignorance is you basing your explanation of pride on the social definition. Because everyone says so, it must be true. The white dominance of past is irrelevant. Pride is pride as a standard definition, not what social norm implies. Assuming otherwise is the same bullshit double standard as with most political correct terminologies to appease the liberal minded asshats that whine about not being able to use a specific bathroom cause they feel warm and fuzzy inside. People have the right to feel pride in any form and if being white is their pride, so be it. It's taboo because of the racial divide based from those warm and fuzzy idiots, backed by a spineless governing body who once again, appease the idiots as it collects votes. It's used by white supremacists. Big effing deal. It doesn't change it's true definition. It changed because the social norm believes it should be and others follow for fear of repercussion.

[QUOTE=TheBro;5138463]You're 100% right, Trump is not the only problem in government. And while I don't think all Trump voters believe the same things, most of them have fallen for one of the most laughable cons in political history. This guy does not give a fuck about the common man, and never has. He spent decades screwing over the common man in New York, where his real estate empire was created by largely refusing to pay contractors after jobs were completed. That hissy fit he pulled by threatening not to sign the stimulus bill? It's a common real estate tactic. You come to a deal, then at the last minute threaten to blow everything up unless you're given new concessions; the thought being if someone agrees to a deal, they must be desperate to keep the deal and therefore will agree to new concessions. Everything this guy does is a two bit con or grift.

I ask myself, why do Trump supporters blindly praise a man obsessed with aggrievement and perceived slights. Why do Trump supporters watch this man cry about being treated unfairly, and then tell us he is a strong man. Why did they watch this man lie about the smallest, most irrelevant things (crowd sizes, historical events, what tariffs are, recorded interviews, scientific facts, etc) and believe him? Trump is a proxy. For many things, but the biggest thing is resentment and aggrievement. People who are so angry that they just want this thing we call a system torn down by any means. And they will cheer him on no matter what, to whatever end as long as he destroys it. Hell they watched him botch a pandemic response that has killed 300 k+ Americans and couldn't care less. There is nothing he could say or do that would turn them off. So yes, I find MOST of his supporters to be distasteful to put it lightly. If you're a rich or well off guy voting for Trump, I'm fine with that. Lord knows his tax plan benefits me more than Biden's would. At least in that case you are voting for an interest. But these poor white people, and working class white people who think a classist from New York who talks about "bloodlines" gives a fuck about them? I'd laugh if I wasn't disgusted.[/QUOTE]Of course, the same type of supporters don't exist with the democrats.

[QUOTE=Tommy101;5138968]You obviously slept through 10th grade government class.[/QUOTE]I agree with SenorVac. Too much power in the hands of one person who wasn't elected NATIONALLY. Same issue with Pelosi.

[QUOTE=TeeTime69;5139124]I agree with SenorVac. Too much power in the hands of one person who wasn't elected NATIONALLY. Same issue with Pelosi.[/QUOTE]Thank you. At least we can agree on that lmao.

Happy new years eve everyone.

[QUOTE=TeeTime69;5139124]I agree with SenorVac. Too much power in the hands of one person who wasn't elected NATIONALLY. Same issue with Pelosi.[/QUOTE]Then don't blame the person, blame the system. The electoral process was designed that way for a reason. Also, you assume any president has absolute power. Many of you in here are bright men (except SmoothDriver), you should know better than assuming such a notion. That's why congress is in place. Both can veto each other. Overall, instead of arguing and fighting about ONE person, how about attempting to resolve the entire government system's corruption and greed. Why do people continue to have faith in either party? The true leaders are the lobbyists who can buy their way into any bill and having any law enacted. Instead, all energy is wasted on complaining about Trump, Biden, Obama, blah blah blah. The lobbyist can pay ANY member of congress to vote their way. Who truly has the power?

[QUOTE=BadBosco;5138168]At first, they were annoying, now have become totally comical. The "wealth" I currently have was achieved by my own hard work, College education that I paid for (by working two jobs sometimes), a professional job that I had for over 30 years, and a small business I own on the side. There is absolutely no reason why anyone (regardless of color or gender, etc.) could also accomplish. IF THEY WANTED TO! Ther key is "WANT" to, much easier to sit around ranting about poor-poor pitiful me. Collect you welfare check, buy your soda, snacks and junk food with your bridge card, enjoy your free health care. I work along side of people that grew up in the ghettos of Detroit, but instead to complaining about their life they took advantage of what was offered (education) and made something out of their life. IT CAN BE DONE.

Go through any town or city and you can see help wanted signs all over, ya, not the best jobs in the world, but it's a job. Start there and work (obviously offensive word to some) your way up or into a better job.

And lastly, if it is that bad for you here in this country, just move to another one, please, just move and let someone else support you, because we (people that actually take responsibility for their own life) really don't need you here, and we would much rather keep the money we EARN opposed to paying your way because you are too lazy or ignorant to make your own living.[/QUOTE]Would be a neat trick for someone to pay for their college education by working 2 jobs these days and still have time to do the course work. 2 jobs is usually worse than 1, only people I know in the last 15 to 20 years to do that were in the UAW where they were given a certain amount of tuition reimbursement every year.

[QUOTE=GuyDetroit;5139366]Would be a neat trick for someone to pay for their college education by working 2 jobs these days and still have time to do the course work. 2 jobs is usually worse than 1, only people I know in the last 15 to 20 years to do that were in the UAW where they were given a certain amount of tuition reimbursement every year.[/QUOTE]I think if you go to any college, ex wayne state; you'll find a good number of working one and two jobs. Granted it's really difficult and graduation is further off. It's possible if you want to do it.

[QUOTE=GuyDetroit;5139366]Would be a neat trick for someone to pay for their college education by working 2 jobs these days and still have time to do the course work. 2 jobs is usually worse than 1, only people I know in the last 15 to 20 years to do that were in the UAW where they were given a certain amount of tuition reimbursement every year.[/QUOTE]Working 2 jobs in the summer, taking 2 classes at most is manageable but try working 2 jobs and going to school full time. Kind of hard! Also, tuition is a whole lot cheaper 15 - 30 years ago where you may be able to work to jobs and pay off your tuition, may be. When I finished college I was 4 K in the hole and that was 30 years ago which isn't a lot in today's dollar. Kids coming out of college now are 50 K or most likely more.

A lot of Skilled tradesmen like Electricians and plumbers did not get paid whenever he declared a bankruptcy. He defense is the same for not paying taxes. IF YOU don't LIKE IT CHANGE THE LAWS. Only suckers join the Military and pay taxes.

[QUOTE=AirTouchOne;5139706]Working 2 jobs in the summer, taking 2 classes at most is manageable but try working 2 jobs and going to school full time. Kind of hard! Also, tuition is a whole lot cheaper 15 - 30 years ago where you may be able to work to jobs and pay off your tuition, may be. When I finished college I was 4 K in the hole and that was 30 years ago which isn't a lot in today's dollar. Kids coming out of college now are 50 K or most likely more.[/QUOTE]I did it during summers, never a day off, had a job off campus during the school year and worked every x-Mass break and spring brake at my job "back home". Agree, possibly could not be done while taking a full class load, but you can do allot when you WANT to or need to. I think they "Want" doesn't exist anymore. Too easy to sit around and complain. On the other hand, there are alot of funds available for low income and minorities these days. But some of those require that you actually tried to learn something in high school, witch is also a stretch in some cases.

There is always someone else to blame your condition on, why would you possibly want to take responsibility for yourself??

It would be nice if you people would put two and two together. In the 70's and early 80's you could work a part time job (30) hours and full time in the summer, it may take you 5 years to get your 4 year degree, but you would come out debt free. SO WHAT CHANGED! You became good for a guaranteed student loans and the price of college went through the roof, because you could pay for it and can't walk away from the loan. Of course this was only to help you.

You also know that it was the universities that lobbyed Congress for this.

So who is making out? And most everyone passes.

[QUOTE=GuyDetroit;5139366]Would be a neat trick for someone to pay for their college education by working 2 jobs these days and still have time to do the course work. 2 jobs is usually worse than 1, only people I know in the last 15 to 20 years to do that were in the UAW where they were given a certain amount of tuition reimbursement every year.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Concupiscent69;5139016]Of course, the same type of supporters don't exist with the democrats.[/QUOTE]There are distasteful supporters of every politician in the world. Even presidents who nearly everyone admirers. Consider some of the most bloodthirsty abolitionist supporters of President Lincoln who wanted to do all types of things to southern civilians before and after the Civil War. Or FDR supporters who excused the internment of Japanese Americans. Or Eisenhower supporters who followed conspiracy theories and Red Scare nonsense to bully Americans. But I'm not sure we've had a president in the modern era who has done more to highlight and project the worst impulses and behavior like Trump has. We haven't had a president who blatantly lies about things like Trump does, to the point he becomes propaganda unit. Or supporters who gleefully engage in it.

[QUOTE=BadBosco;5139822]I did it during summers, never a day off, had a job off campus during the school year and worked every x-Mass break and spring brake at my job "back home". Agree, possibly could not be done while taking a full class load, but you can do allot when you WANT to or need to. I think they "Want" doesn't exist anymore. Too easy to sit around and complain. On the other hand, there are alot of funds available for low income and minorities these days. But some of those require that you actually tried to learn something in high school, witch is also a stretch in some cases.

There is always someone else to blame your condition on, why would you possibly want to take responsibility for yourself??[/QUOTE]Just to clarify. Did you just recently finished college? Not trying to be an ass and don't take that way.

Has anyone been paying attention as to how much that COVID-19 has infiltrated and decimated the working girls of the street?

When I see that the Wayne County Sheriff dies, and that the Sheriff in Macomb, and Chiefs in Detroit and Highland Park have all been sidelined with it, I wonder how the girls are not infecting any of us as well.

Maybe we should only be doing it outside, but they cannot wear a mask as they swallow sausage (although we can keep ours on), maybe only do Greek (like a previous poster, and myself) did with Adriana on the are. But most of these girls, starting with Adriana, are not all that clean, and with their belongings smelling and with bed bugs and lice, we are not talking about those who regular use Lysol wipes and wash their hands with soap. Ideas dear gents.

[QUOTE=AirTouchOne;5140112]Just to clarify. Did you just recently finished college? Not trying to be an ass and don't take that way.[/QUOTE]No, In my first post I indicated that I been working for 32 years out of college, I graduated in December of 1988. And Yes, I paid my way at a community college for 2 years, then changed direction (slightly) and went to a state college for 3 1/2 years. Also keep in mind that at these job I had (I don't recall the exact wage), but none were over $7. 00/ hr. Just reaping the reward of being raised by parents that taught me to save-save-save, and only buy what you need until you can afford what you want. Two concepts that don't exist today.

And to clarify even farther, the 2x job was summers. Auto mechanic at a local garage M-F 8am - 5pm Saturday 8am - noon Local auto parts store chain M-F 6pm - 10pm Saturday 1pm - 8pm Sunday 10am - 5pm During the school year I would start classes at 7am and usually be done by 1pm then work from 2pm to about 8p ant various different jobs, then at least 8-12 hours over the weekend, Spring break and x-mass I was able to go 8hr/day at the garage

[QUOTE=RayLatoole;5139667]I think if you go to any college, ex wayne state; you'll find a good number of working one and two jobs. Granted it's really difficult and graduation is further off. It's possible if you want to do it.[/QUOTE]Ya working to survive and maybe books unless you are a stripper and can suck a few cocks in a few hour span and make a few hundred. You also might be able to take remedial courses and get away with hit. If you are in engineering or accounting or something forget about it. 12 hours of credits equals about 6 to 8 hours of in class hours,24 to 36 hours of class time, you need to sleep 42 hours a week about, you will commute a few hours at least. Add 40 hours of work on there and you got 28 hours left in a week or so which might be a couple hours a day to decompress. Even if you somehow are a robot and pull this off at 12 bucks an hour after taxes which is a reasonable entry level job and I am being very generous is like 1700. Rent is 700, your commute being as you have so much time is 300 and you have to eat. No more fairy tales ladies.

[QUOTE=GuyDetroit;5140249]Ya working to survive and maybe books unless you are a stripper and can suck a few cocks in a few hour span and make a few hundred. You also might be able to take remedial courses and get away with hit. If you are in engineering or accounting or something forget about it. 12 hours of credits equals about 6 to 8 hours of in class hours,24 to 36 hours of class time, you need to sleep 42 hours a week about, you will commute a few hours at least. Add 40 hours of work on there and you got 28 hours left in a week or so which might be a couple hours a day to decompress. Even if you somehow are a robot and pull this off at 12 bucks an hour after taxes which is a reasonable entry level job and I am being very generous is like 1700. Rent is 700, your commute being as you have so much time is 300 and you have to eat. No more fairy tales ladies.[/QUOTE]Then in your estimation, society as we know it is doomed! And people should just resign themselves to the fact they'll be losers the rest of their lives!. Try harder!

[QUOTE=GuyDetroit;5140249]Ya working to survive and maybe books unless you are a stripper and can suck a few cocks in a few hour span and make a few hundred. You also might be able to take remedial courses and get away with hit. If you are in engineering or accounting or something forget about it. 12 hours of credits equals about 6 to 8 hours of in class hours,24 to 36 hours of class time, you need to sleep 42 hours a week about, you will commute a few hours at least. Add 40 hours of work on there and you got 28 hours left in a week or so which might be a couple hours a day to decompress. Even if you somehow are a robot and pull this off at 12 bucks an hour after taxes which is a reasonable entry level job and I am being very generous is like 1700. Rent is 700, your commute being as you have so much time is 300 and you have to eat. No more fairy tales ladies.[/QUOTE]There is no comparison between current college costs and those of yesteryear. I, too, paid my way through college with a combination of scholarships, grants, loans, and part-time employment during the school year, and full-time factory work during the summer. The fact is that tuition and living expenses were only a few thousand overall.

These days, the costs are tens of thousands. My kids are no less industrious or academically capable than I, but the only one who got his degree paid in full by graduation served four years of active duty in the US Army, two of those years in combat; so the government paid his costs, plus a stipend for living expenses. The other two have massive debt from loans for tuition. Oh, and both had professional jobs while enrolled. One dropped out of school because her seasonal job took her out of town four days out of every seven.

Yes, these are anecdotal evidence. But I think theirs are the more common story now. As for working more than one job to afford college, forget it — the conventional wisdom is that course hours plus job hours should not exceed fifty hours per week, if you expect to have time to study. So, if you are taking a full load of 18 credit hours, then your job shouldn't exceed 32 hours per week.

And if you are supporting yourself or a young family, it's that much harder.

[QUOTE=Bpmfarhat;5139788]A lot of Skilled tradesmen like Electricians and plumbers did not get paid whenever he declared a bankruptcy. He defense is the same for not paying taxes. IF YOU don't LIKE IT CHANGE THE LAWS. Only suckers join the Military and pay taxes.[/QUOTE]You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, those tradesmen got paid every week by the company they worked for. Now the million dollar company that employed those tradesmen may or may not have received full payment but they were compensated, and any money they were shorted I'm sure was a tax write off.

Every man alive would use a legal tax loophole to avoid paying taxes. Trump is under audit every year, if he was doing something illegal he would be in jail by now.

As far as him calling anyone in the military "suckers" that's been debunked a long time ago. Maybe stop watching CNN all the time and throw a little Fox News in there sometimes and you will be a little more informed.

[QUOTE=HeadsUp313;5140793]You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, those tradesmen got paid every week by the company they worked for. Now the million dollar company that employed those tradesmen may or may not have received full payment but they were compensated, and any money they were shorted I'm sure was a tax write off.

Every man alive would use a legal tax loophole to avoid paying taxes. Trump is under audit every year, if he was doing something illegal he would be in jail by now.

As far as him calling anyone in the military "suckers" that's been debunked a long time ago. Maybe stop watching CNN all the time and throw a little Fox News in there sometimes and you will be a little more informed.[/QUOTE]Debunked by Who? Newsmax? John Kelly was the one he said that too. Standing next to the grave of Kelly's son.

[QUOTE=TheBro;5138463]You're 100% right, Trump is not the only problem in government. And while I don't think all Trump voters believe the same things, most of them have fallen for one of the most laughable cons in political history. This guy does not give a fuck about the common man, and never has. He spent decades screwing over the common man in New York, where his real estate empire was created by largely refusing to pay contractors after jobs were completed. That hissy fit he pulled by threatening not to sign the stimulus bill? It's a common real estate tactic. You come to a deal, then at the last minute threaten to blow everything up unless you're given new concessions; the thought being if someone agrees to a deal, they must be desperate to keep the deal and therefore will agree to new concessions. Everything this guy does is a two bit con or grift.

I ask myself, why do Trump supporters blindly praise a man obsessed with aggrievement and perceived slights. Why do Trump supporters watch this man cry about being treated unfairly, and then tell us he is a strong man. Why did they watch this man lie about the smallest, most irrelevant things (crowd sizes, historical events, what tariffs are, recorded interviews, scientific facts, etc) and believe him? Trump is a proxy. For many things, but the biggest thing is resentment and aggrievement. People who are so angry that they just want this thing we call a system torn down by any means. And they will cheer him on no matter what, to whatever end as long as he destroys it. Hell they watched him botch a pandemic response that has killed 300 k+ Americans and couldn't care less. There is nothing he could say or do that would turn them off. So yes, I find MOST of his supporters to be distasteful to put it lightly. If you're a rich or well off guy voting for Trump, I'm fine with that. Lord knows his tax plan benefits me more than Biden's would. At least in that case you are voting for an interest. But these poor white people, and working class white people who think a classist from New York who talks about "bloodlines" gives a fuck about them? I'd laugh if I wasn't disgusted.[/QUOTE]Good job TheBro. As always, you articulate your reasonable and logical perspective. Thanks, I couldn't agree more.

[QUOTE=HeadsUp313;5140793]You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, those tradesmen got paid every week by the company they worked for. Now the million dollar company that employed those tradesmen may or may not have received full payment but they were compensated, and any money they were shorted I'm sure was a tax write off.

Every man alive would use a legal tax loophole to avoid paying taxes. Trump is under audit every year, if he was doing something illegal he would be in jail by now.

As far as him calling anyone in the military "suckers" that's been debunked a long time ago. Maybe stop watching CNN all the time and throw a little Fox News in there sometimes and you will be a little more informed.[/QUOTE]I think Trump writes most of the news on Fox and they just report what he writes or what Rupert Murdoch tells them to report.

This is the same way I funded my cost, Dad worked some overtime too. My last year of HS was $525, Michigan State was briefly less, $359 for 3 quarters. That same HS hit $15,800 a few years ago. It is now $14,100 per year.

BA/BS Students are leaving with $36,000 to $38,000 in debt. I had under $500. First job didn't require the degree and paid $8,800 (1973). Eligibility Examiner 07 SOM. After a career switch, I made some money

Go Green!

[QUOTE=WinterKnight;5140607]There is no comparison between current college costs and those of yesteryear. I, too, paid my way through college with a combination of scholarships, grants, loans, and part-time employment during the school year, and full-time factory work during the summer. The fact is that tuition and living expenses were only a few thousand overall.

These days, the costs are tens of thousands. My kids are no less industrious or academically capable than I, but the only one who got his degree paid in full by graduation served four years of active duty in the US Army, two of those years in combat; so the government paid his costs, plus a stipend for living expenses. The other two have massive debt from loans for tuition. Oh, and both had professional jobs while enrolled. One dropped out of school because her seasonal job took her out of town four days out of every seven.

Yes, these are anecdotal evidence. But I think theirs are the more common story now. As for working more than one job to afford college, forget it the conventional wisdom is that course hours plus job hours should not exceed fifty hours per week, if you expect to have time to study. So, if you are taking a full load of 18 credit hours, then your job shouldn't exceed 32 hours per week.

And if you are supporting yourself or a young family, it's that much harder.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VanLopez;5140972]I think Trump writes most of the news on Fox and they just report what he writes or what Rupert Murdoch tells them to report.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't go that far but there are a few people that do kiss his ass. CNN and MSNBC just talk shit about him, they never give him credit for anything. I'll I'm saying is watch both and maybe you will be a little more informed.

[QUOTE=VanLopez;5140972]I think Trump writes most of the news on Fox and they just report what he writes or what Rupert Murdoch tells them to report.[/QUOTE]I watched on fox news trumps say the military was sukers and his cult followers like head up his racist tight azz 313 the original votes out of his government disability pay scale lemming white middle-class republican who votes on conspiracy theories and deflecting. LOL trumps suks dik and he LOST! 2021 lock him up, no more bullshit! Hey head up your azz 313 get off government disability and quit mooching.

[QUOTE=Jp1225;5140669]Visited Novi Massage (10 mile about 1/2 mile east of Meadowbrook) on Tuesday. Cici is petite thin and attractive, late 40's. She gives a decent massage (straddled my back and used her somewhat boney ass for some deep tissue work). Then went to more light pressure and some tease. On the flip, made flattering compliments about my "size" and nice body etc. And was went straight to rubbing over everything. HOWEVER. She gets the oil and says "you do?" indicating diy. I said "no you do?" To which she shakes her head no. Usually I say no thanks but this time I obliged. She was all about giving assistance though. Touching rubbing squeezing any part of Johnny and the boys that I wasn't. So this leads to my question.

So they can't (or won't) do the actual stroking but do everything else (including dirty talk, moaning, nipple play, allow otc or UTC roaming etc.). Why? Can't be because of the law. Because what they are willing to do is more than enough to get them in trouble. Can't be because of culture / religion because again, they've gone WAY past modesty at that point. Can't be because they have a husband or are saving themselves (or maybe it is that) but again they have definitely crossed a line from strictly professional at that point. Idk. Not that it matters as to WHY they tip toe in the waters, so to speak. I can understand the ones that do HE. I can understand those who don't (. Or those who require draping and are strictly pro. I don't understand the muddy waters of tempting and teasing and then diy.

Any thoughts on this?

Novi Massage was not bad. YMMV. But I wouldn't expect HE. Maybe subsequent visits produce more?[/QUOTE]I am not going to try and answer all your questions, but I will say this. Any guy that gives a tip for jacking himself off is a moron. I am not giving a penny for someone to watch me finish myself. Talk about getting having your cake and eat it too. The DIY spas are the worst in the business. Don't tip them.