In my dream, Ariel is a nice gal.
I am sure that she is not a LEO.
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In my dream, Ariel is a nice gal.
I am sure that she is not a LEO.
Guys,
I just got an email from a provider off backpage she wants a photo of me a copy of my drivers license.
Also she wants a copy of my pay stub.
Otherwise she cannot meet with me.
LOL she must be involved in a leo sting.
That is a whole lot of information she had a number on her ad a few weeks ago.
Just go on backpage and search video vixen in the Orlando section and have a laugh when you email her.
Talk about id theft this is way too much info to give a provider. If you are that paranoid you need to get out of the game. Plus you have no reviews anywhere I smell a pork buffet.
very difficult to believe. When you rent a room, hotel, motel, etc by the day, week or month, you are purchasing the exclusive rights to use that space. Inherent in this is the right to exclude other persons. This gives you an expectation of privacy, and such expectation is one that I am confident society finds reasonable. Based on that, without a valid warrant or recognized exception to the warrant requirement, I do not believe LEO can enter OVER THE RENTER'S objections.
I am not saying Tinaa is wrong, just that I find it extremely difficult to believe. If she has some authority I would really like to see it.
Nemo
[QUOTE=Tinaa]In florida leo can enter ANY hotel/motel/rent by the week at ANY time. They just need to state that there was a complaint from manangement [of the hotel]. The ONLY true way to protect yourself is to be in a leased apartment. Then they need a warrant to come in. Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nemodc]very difficult to believe. When you rent a room, hotel, motel, etc by the day, week or month, you are purchasing the exclusive rights to use that space. Inherent in this is the right to exclude other persons. This gives you an expectation of privacy, and such expectation is one that I am confident society finds reasonable. Based on that, without a valid warrant or recognized exception to the warrant requirement, I do not believe LEO can enter OVER THE RENTER'S objections.
I am not saying Tinaa is wrong, just that I find it extremely difficult to believe. If she has some authority I would really like to see it.
Nemo[/QUOTE]
I'm a layman and what little research I've done on this matter supports your position.
re: "Consent Searches", second paragraph:
[url]http://www.ralphbehr.net/lawyer-attorney-50CD91FC-B21D-4BE7-BA4818C8E29AC758.html[/url]
re: Third Party Consents
[url]http://www.aele.org/consent.html[/url]
re: Consent
[url]http://www.policelink.com/training/articles/102594-search-warrant-exceptions[/url]
re: consent
[url]http://www.policemag.com/Articles/2007/02/Point-of-Law.aspx[/url]
Regards
Mal
[QUOTE=Nemodc]very difficult to believe. When you rent a room, hotel, motel, etc by the day, week or month, you are purchasing the exclusive rights to use that space. Inherent in this is the right to exclude other persons. This gives you an expectation of privacy, and such expectation is one that I am confident society finds reasonable. Based on that, without a valid warrant or recognized exception to the warrant requirement, I do not believe LEO can enter OVER THE RENTER'S objections.
I am not saying Tinaa is wrong, just that I find it extremely difficult to believe. If she has some authority I would really like to see it.
Nemo[/QUOTE]
If Tinaa was right more than half the dealers would have been busted by now. They are always switching hotel room. I believe Nemodc and Malabar are right.
[size=-2][i]I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice[/i][/size]
[QUOTE=Orlando J]If Tinaa was right more than half the dealers would have been busted by now. They are always switching hotel room. I believe Nemodc and Malabar are right.
[size=-2][i]I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice[/i][/size][/QUOTE]I had this checked by a friend of mine who is a lawyer. He said that by law the owner and named on the lease is the person who gives consent to the officers to enter the premises. This would be you renting/leasing a house, apartment or condo you are safe. If you are paying for a hotel room you have rights of privacy until a formal complain is made to the police by the owner/manager of the apartment. Another thing I found interesting is the owner/manager must be present at time of search. To protect his and his customers interest (the person who called the cops on you is protecting your interests from the cops lol).
So with what I was told Tinaa looks to be correct on what she is saying. He said in a hotel room you are only paying for x amount of nights/night lodging. You have rights of privacy unless a complaint is made and police are called by owners or caretakers of the hotel. This was explained to me as a way for the hotels to protect the property they own. To me it sounds like a green light in any situation to be harassed.
The reason more people are not busted is some are very good at hiding what they are doing and some owners/managers could care less what you are doing as long as you are paying for your visit. They are businessman looking for a buck!
also very difficult to believe. I rent a motel room-- I effectively OWN that room for the period of the rental.
A motel manager/owner being able to make a complaint and then grant permission and authority to enter MY property (for whatever reason) goes about a million percent against what my cum laude JD classes taught me.
Fair warning, Florida may have some dumb assed unconstitutional statute that I am not aware of-- I never did bar or practice here.
Nemo
this is not a legal advice but id argue it to any judge anywhere and have some reasonable confidence of a favorable ruling
[QUOTE=Mikaeles]I had this checked by a friend of mine who is a lawyer. He said that by law the owner and named on the lease is the person who gives consent to the officers to enter the premises. This would be you renting/leasing a house, apartment or condo you are safe. If you are paying for a hotel room you have rights of privacy until a formal complain is made to the police by the owner/manager of the apartment. Another thing I found interesting is the owner/manager must be present at time of search. To protect his and his customers interest (the person who called the cops on you is protecting your interests from the cops lol).
So with what I was told Tinaa looks to be correct on what she is saying. He said in a hotel room you are only paying for x amount of nights/night lodging. You have rights of privacy unless a complaint is made and police are called by owners or caretakers of the hotel. This was explained to me as a way for the hotels to protect the property they own. To me it sounds like a green light in any situation to be harassed.
The reason more people are not busted is some are very good at hiding what they are doing and some owners/managers could care less what you are doing as long as you are paying for your visit. They are businessman looking for a buck![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nemodc]also very difficult to believe. I rent a motel room-- I effectively OWN that room for the period of the rental.
A motel manager/owner being able to make a complaint and then grant permission and authority to enter MY property (for whatever reason) goes about a million percent against what my cum laude JD classes taught me.
Fair warning, Florida may have some dumb assed unconstitutional statute that I am not aware of-- I never did bar or practice here.
Nemo
This is not a legal advice but id argue it to any judge anywhere and have some reasonable confidence of a favorable ruling[/QUOTE]You also have to remember what can they charge you with? The only thing that can be done from what I understand is see if any drugs are in the room if they are your stupid! Any damage done to the property of the room that is owned by the motel. They can't check your pockets or bags and it is no ones business what you are doing in the hotel. If they asked me I would tell them I am sharing the room with my friend. If they seen a condom I would say we are friends with benefits do you prefer we have unportected sex?
In florida, leo is allowed to expose himself but not allowed to perform sexual acts. Vice will however do pretty much allowed to do whatever they want to do as well as Narc's.
From knowledge I tell you this from another state happened. Vice did come in and immediately "got comfortable" completely! Vice does perform sexual acts to completion and they do arrest you afterwards. Many states are changing the laws because of the craigslist stigmata. Do not ever assume vice won't get comfortable, be cool or go past first. Vice will in fact say after they are done " I love my job, I picked you because your sexy and this or that about you makes my _____ hard".
Tinaa they do have to have a warrant to proceed with search and arrest if you live in a private residence. However, if your operating a business such as advertising massages, companionship etc. Out of your house they don't have to have a warrant to book an appointment. They can come to an appt and this will be one of the men who doesn't stay they make an excuse after a few minutes. Vice can also send a person who isn't a cop but gives info.
All they have to do is book an appointment and get probable cause that something is going on and they will send someone on appt #2. On this appt, they will run the sting and they will take your computer, search your house way worse than a hotel sting.
[QUOTE=Vino 7373]Hi Ariel,
It's "Bill, " I had a dream about you last Monday night. How about that shit? I give you some accurate, stellar reviews, rightfully put you in the Real Deal thread, and some dirtbag flames my post and trashes you. I hope you flagged his phone number to make sure that you never see his sorry ass again.
On a different note that the dirtbag brought up. You've got to do a LEO check whith all first-time clients. It's only a matter of time before you get visited. The wording is critical: simply ask the guy when he first walks in to allow you to examine his equipment with your hand. When he pulls down his pants, go ahead and fondle him. Then you make a joke about seeing how much hair he has on his chest, then run your hand underneath his shirt to check and see if he's "got something there he shouldn't have." If you get any bad feelings about him, he starts hesitating, or tries to talk about s*x before the LEO check is done, tell him there's a misunderstanding and make him leave immediately. The BS about him spouting off that's he's not a c*p is crap. I've had the jewelry put on me before and they'll do just about anything to get you to say the magic phrase for them, "s*x for money, " or allude to it.
Be safe, you rock, and I hope to see you soon, sweetheart! You can PM me when you get the chance.[/QUOTE]
1st- Not everything goes by the book. I will give an example; in Canada prostitution is legal but the majority of girls do not know. Some cities have signs of "this community does not tolerate prostitution and an 800 number to report a John". This completely contradicts with the law. How can they do it? They bend the law by incriminating other activities. In this case the community has its own law.
2nd- Another thing not all police officers follow the law. It helps to know your rights but this does not mean that police officers are 100% following the law. You have probably seen or been through many violations. There are those outrageous violation taped on videos that end the officer career.
3rd- Many times, you give up your own rights either not knowing or under the pressure.
Real life situations are not textbook examples.
[QUOTE=Mikaeles]If they seen a condom I would say we are friends with benefits do you prefer we have unportected sex?[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? Who cares about a condom or condoms? The police won't check on rooms for simple prostitution cases. Otherwise more than half of Orlando hotels will be empty :).
[QUOTE=Mikaeles]I had this checked by a friend of mine who is a lawyer. He said that by law the owner and named on the lease is the person who gives consent to the officers to enter the premises. This would be you renting/leasing a house, apartment or condo you are safe. If you are paying for a hotel room you have rights of privacy until a formal complain is made to the police by the owner/manager of the apartment. Another thing I found interesting is the owner/manager must be present at time of search. To protect his and his customers interest (the person who called the cops on you is protecting your interests from the cops lol).[/QUOTE]I think there are two issues here
1) Whether or not an officer could search the room successfully based soley on permission given by the manager
2) Whether or not officers would come into the room and create a lot of problems for you by arresting you, interviewing you etc.
As to (1) I think the answer is clearly no - all the case law I could find require officers to get search warrants in order to search a hotel room - just as they would any other temporary or permanent residence - and to demonstrate probable cause. A complaint from the owner/manager could easily provide that probable cause, but if an officer appears at the door of your hotel, ask for a warrant, if they don't have one don't let them in.
As to (2) I think the answer is clearly yes. Although a warrant is needed to search the room and get evidence against you, the manager and an officer could come to your room and kick you out. Thus, I think that Tinna is right about the manager being able to do this based on Florida Statues 509.141. This statute permits operators of hotels to remove guests for a variety of reasons including some vague ones like a guest "who indulges in any language or conduct which disturbs the peace and comfort of other guests " or "who, in the opinion of the operator, is a person the continued entertainment of whom would be detrimental to such establishment." Notice that the "in the opinion of the operator" gives quite a bit of latitude. The operator must only give notice they want them out and refund the money and return all their personal property. Furthermore, Subsection (4) provides that "It is the duty of such law enforcement officer, upon the request of such operator, to place under arrest and take into custody for violation of this section any guest who [remains or attempts to remain after being requested to leave] in the presence of the officer."
Thus a smart operator who wanted to kick someone out would call the police, go to the room with the police and notify the guest in person that they want them to leave. Then if the guest refuses to leave in the presence of the officer, they have committed a misdemeanor and the officer can arrest them without a warrant.
The long and short is that you could be legally arrested for a 2nd degree misdemeanor for refusing to leave, although it would be much harder to go after you for any activities you were doing - as their would be illegal search issues.
If this happened to me I'd politely say that I'm sorry that the manager thinks I need to leave, I'm happy to do so. Please respect my privacy by remaining outside the hotel room while I gather my things and leave. Always indicating that I intend to comply, but not saying anything that would be construed to give them permission to enter into the room. I'd also probably turn on my cell phones recording feature in case they tried to come in the room anyway. Depnding on the situation, I may also throw in, "The manager's only doing this because I'm white and I came in here with a Hispanic girl, he's racist, and doesn't like mixed couples. I'm leaving, but this is discrimination." etc. Since basing the removal on race is not allowed, this may create issues of doubt for the officer, and if you're willing to leave they'd probably just let you go peacefully to be done with it - or face a bunch of paperwork.
Just my 2 cents.
[QUOTE=Nemodc]very difficult to believe. When you rent a room, hotel, motel, etc by the day, week or month, you are purchasing the exclusive rights to use that space. Inherent in this is the right to exclude other persons. This gives you an expectation of privacy, and such expectation is one that I am confident society finds reasonable. Based on that, without a valid warrant or recognized exception to the warrant requirement, I do not believe LEO can enter OVER THE RENTER'S objections.
I am not saying Tinaa is wrong, just that I find it extremely difficult to believe. If she has some authority I would really like to see it.
Nemo[/QUOTE]Hotel/motel law, which is clearly posted in every room [usually on the back of the door]will refute this. Landowners can enter based on any complaint or to make repairs check on pipes etc [usually a false report] also in the entire state of florida there is NO entrapment law. Which means not only can the police say they are not the police they can use decoys or confidential informants ALSO pc or probable cause can be used to get inside your room say the officer says he smelled pot or heard yelling. Why do I know this info because I am entering school in the fall to be a paralegal.
[QUOTE=Vertrag]
::::
::::
If this happened to me I'd politely say that I'm sorry that the manager thinks I need to leave, I'm happy to do so. Please respect my privacy by remaining outside the hotel room while I gather my things and leave. Always indicating that I intend to comply, but not saying anything that would be construed to give them permission to enter into the room. I'd also probably turn on my cell phones recording feature in case they tried to come in the room anyway. Depnding on the situation, I may also throw in, "The manager's only doing this because I'm white and I came in here with a Hispanic girl, he's racist, and doesn't like mixed couples. I'm leaving, but this is discrimination." etc. Since basing the removal on race is not allowed, this may create issues of doubt for the officer, and if you're willing to leave they'd probably just let you go peacefully to be done with it - or face a bunch of paperwork.
Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]
Well written report. Thanks.
All I want to say is most people do not know the details of the law. I have worked as a hotel receptionist for few months and I did not know these details.
It is important to know that individuals behave as part of the community culture. Thus the example of Canada.
On the other hand, police officers do not abide by the law all the time and there is always room for interpretations. What if the police officer invented a fake probable cause to make the arrest!
Look up Florida Statue 777.201:
777.201 Entrapment.--
(1) A law enforcement officer, a person engaged in cooperation with a law enforcement officer, or a person acting as an agent of a law enforcement officer perpetrates an entrapment if, for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the commission of a crime, he or she induces or encourages and, as a direct result, causes another person to engage in conduct constituting such crime by employing methods of persuasion or inducement which create a substantial risk that such crime will be committed by a person other than one who is ready to commit it.
(2) A person prosecuted for a crime shall be acquitted if the person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that his or her criminal conduct occurred as a result of an entrapment. The issue of entrapment shall be tried by the trier of fact.
It clearly states a person can be aquitted if he/she proves they were entrapped. So why do you think Florida didn't have an Entrapment law?
As for as the police saying they are not police.....that has been a huge misconception......cops have to say "they are no cops" while undercover if not then there covers would always be blown. I never found a law stating the contrary....I did find a nice article that speaks about this "urban legend" that undercover cops need to reveal their true identities......check it out:
[url]http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/998952/legal_urban_legends_debunked_whether.html[/url]
Hope this is useful
[QUOTE=Tinaa]Hotel/motel law, which is clearly posted in every room [usually on the back of the door]will refute this. Landowners can enter based on any complaint or to make repairs check on pipes etc [usually a false report] also in the entire state of florida there is NO entrapment law. Which means not only can the police say they are not the police they can use decoys or confidential informants ALSO pc or probable cause can be used to get inside your room say the officer says he smelled pot or heard yelling. Why do I know this info because I am entering school in the fall to be a paralegal.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=True Critic69]Look up Florida Statue 777.201:
777.201 Entrapment.--
(1) A law enforcement officer, a person engaged in cooperation with a law enforcement officer, or a person acting as an agent of a law enforcement officer perpetrates an entrapment if, for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the commission of a crime, he or she induces or encourages and, as a direct result, causes another person to engage in conduct constituting such crime by employing methods of persuasion or inducement which create a substantial risk that such crime will be committed by a person other than one who is ready to commit it.
(2) A person prosecuted for a crime shall be acquitted if the person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that his or her criminal conduct occurred as a result of an entrapment. The issue of entrapment shall be tried by the trier of fact.
It clearly states a person can be aquitted if he/she proves they were entrapped. So why do you think Florida didn't have an Entrapment law?
As for as the police saying they are not police.....that has been a huge misconception......cops have to say "they are no cops" while undercover if not then there covers would always be blown. I never found a law stating the contrary....I did find a nice article that speaks about this "urban legend" that undercover cops need to reveal their true identities......check it out:
[url]http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/998952/legal_urban_legends_debunked_whether.html[/url]
Hope this is useful[/QUOTE]I guess my little post about Ariel really started something. I'm happy that everyone found my post relevant for discussion. This is a serious subject that probably needed to be studied and looked at. Hopefully, we'll all be safe and sound. Happy mongering everyone and no Leos!