"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Dude,

This has TROUBLE written ALL over it.

Raw means diseases and not just babies.

She is getting attached (love?) and wants to be GF? Ouch.

You may want to think about cooling it down.

Them again, I have a feeling that you already know this, just looking for affirmation.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2462853]Last night meet up with my backup SB. She's starting to become a forerunner. Last night we're bar hopping both drunk. I use the hotel app and Uber to get to the hotel. I bought a 3 pack of condoms and ran out in the middle of the night. She tells me she's on "depro" or some 5 yr BC and begs me to cum inside. Like really begging me and all the daddy talk. It was insane. I don't go raw, she gives me oral and I pass out.

It's tempting. When I met up with her she had just finished having dinner with her mother. She wanted to introduce me. Also, she told me she loved me and wants to be my GF.

Question? Are any of you guys banging your SB's raw dog? I grew up in the 90's and Magic Johnson. I wear a condom all the time and super paranoid about unprotected sex.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2462853]Last night meet up with my backup SB. She's starting to become a forerunner. Last night we're bar hopping both drunk. I use the hotel app and Uber to get to the hotel. I bought a 3 pack of condoms and ran out in the middle of the night. She tells me she's on "depro" or some 5 yr BC and begs me to cum inside. Like really begging me and all the daddy talk. It was insane. I don't go raw, she gives me oral and I pass out.

It's tempting. When I met up with her she had just finished having dinner with her mother. She wanted to introduce me. Also, she told me she loved me and wants to be my GF.

Question? Are any of you guys banging your SB's raw dog? I grew up in the 90's and Magic Johnson. I wear a condom all the time and super paranoid about unprotected sex.[/QUOTE]I call my ATF my GF and have met her mom. I only go raw. 61 years without an STD. Maybe I,m just lucky. I lost my virginity 2 years after the "summer of love". No one used condoms back then. STD's were rare and every girl was on the pill. It was right of passage.

Is there risk? Lots of it. Over half the USA population has HSV1, and 1 out of about 7 has HSV2. Neither is curable and using condoms isnt going to help you if you like kissing or DATY. So lots of risk. Ask girls lots of questions about their health and x's. Stay safe. In my case the risk is about 4 to 40 times higher for STD's as I mainly do AA girls. Sad but true. Asian girls have the lowest rate of STD's. About a 10th the rate of AA girls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex

http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats12/minorities.htm

Hurray. Just finished reading through all 607 pages of this incredible thread (admittedly skimming over much of the blow-by-blow updates, and focusing on the advice discussions). Having done so, I will go ahead and at least partially answer my own questions from my last post:

[QUOTE=Zcochran00;2460605]1) What are the typical methods of approach you guys use?[/QUOTE]One good approach is HollywoodGuy's "5 Steps" message approach ([URL]http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps[/URL]).

[QUOTE=Zcochran00;2460605]2) Once you're actually ready to meet BCD, do you usually go to her place, your place, or get a hotel room?[/QUOTE]Looks like hotel rooms are the FC of choice almost every time. The major factors seem to be having SOs at home, and keeping yourself safe and anonymous.

I bookmarked a ton of posts while reading through, and will now go back through those to collate and sort out some of the massive amounts of info in this thread. I'll try to put up a couple summary posts once I'm done for the benefit of other newbies.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2463031]I call my ATF my GF and have met her mom. I only go raw. 61 years without an STD. Maybe I,m just lucky. I lost my virginity 2 years after the "summer of love". No one used condoms back then. STD's were rare and every girl was on the pill. It was right of passage.

Is there risk? Lots of it. Over half the USA population has HSV1, and 1 out of about 7 has HSV2. Neither is curable and using condoms isnt going to help you if you like kissing or DATY. So lots of risk. Ask girls lots of questions about their health and x's. Stay safe. In my case the risk is about 4 to 40 times higher for STD's as I mainly do AA girls. Sad but true. Asian girls have the lowest rate of STD's. About a 10th the rate of AA girls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex

http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats12/minorities.htm[/QUOTE]Thanks for the insight here. My last clean bill of STD health was right before I got married. Since bowling I can't count the number of partners, but I'd say roughly 12-15. All protected, with the exception of the BBBJ.

I did have one condom mishap, but fortunately no fallout. Incidently, the SB who the condom broke on became my main girl. I wonder sometimes if the fact that I came inside her made us closer on more an emotional level. "OR" maybe it's the ca $h. In either case, she's pretty convincing.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2462965]Dude,

This has TROUBLE written ALL over it.

Raw means diseases and not just babies.

She is getting attached (love?) and wants to be GF? Ouch.

You may want to think about cooling it down.

Them again, I have a feeling that you already know this, just looking for affirmation.[/QUOTE]Definitely going to cool this one down. I think what happened here is we became penpals. Moved from SA to text and were messaging constantly. Finally met and she was much better than her pics. Some average girls are actually much better in person. She's exotic, tall & thin 10/10/10. The only problem is I can't bare to listen to her talk. She's like a stereotypical "blonde" girl. I've had dinner dates that were just embarrasing. Gorgeous girl. If I could teach her not to speak in public, she'd be perfect.

The plus side with her is she doesn't ask for sugar. Her expectation is like normal dating. The sex is insane, mostly because she cums frequently and is very vocal during FC. She's even vocal during oral. The moaning when she's giving oral is so arousing. I truly believe this girl thoroughly enjoys it.

My question is how do I keep her as a solid backup SB and not give her the impression I want to be in a "relationship".

Sunday - 05.03.

Went to see my little 19 year old church girl. Had an awesome 90 minute session in the backseat of the car. Got her warmed up by vigorously and simultaeneously fingering both holes, while sucking her clit. Then my dick went from her mouth to pussy to ass to pussy to ass to mouth. I love this girl. Her body is so amazing and ultra hygeinic. Her ass is wet, smooth and accepting. Maybe the best I ever had. Better than most pussy. She loves rough nipple play and age play and being dommed. And she won't stop bugging me to let her join in with my ATF.

Monday.

The 18 year old blond canceled our 11 am due to a dr. Appt. Tried to get with my ATF but she couldn't make it due to babysitting issues. Had a new girl agree to my $ and then I saw her real pics. About 30 lbs heavier than the slicked up ones she had on SA. I guess they figure its either that or they won't even have a shot at a date. Then a hottie thought the $ was for the M&G. I don't think so. Oh well.

Also, I think Jeez might be right. All the super hotties are lez. It's like in my neighborhood, all the super goodlooking guys are gay. And all the girls on SA that say they aren't prostitutes in their profiles? They're just gold diggers. One girl told me not to insult her with $$$$$ offers for sex. I told her I would never dream of doing that. LOL. I think I am too immature to date anyone over 30. Sorry but I like fun not drama. I made an offer to another girl and she accepted. Oops, she still had her man parts. Way too many of those in my area.

Finally caught a break. My church girl txted me about 9.30 pm and told me how happy she was to see me last night. Fast enough the conversation heated up to the point where we ended up hooking up again tonite. That was date number seven. Good thing, because I was horny today. I'm not horny everyday. And I hate wasting it.

Tuesday.

Saw my ATF after work. We are still on our honeymoon. I love doing her in her new apartment, its so romantic. Talked to a few booty call girls today just to keep them in the loop. Supposed to see the 18 year old white girl tomorrow. I wonder how she would feel if we hung out all day and I didn't fuck her. I am so tired. LOL.

Wednesday.

Got a txt this morning from the newest girl I banged that she was at a hospital 5 minutes from me as her child was getting some minor surgery and that she was stuck there with no money. So I drove there and dropped off a $ as an advance on our next date. A pretty safe bet based on our short but productive history so far. She looks like she could be a good booty call girl and only 15 minutes away. Good for a couple more bangs at least.

Got a CL hit the other day and spent part of the day today txting back and forth. Finally set up an M&G for 9 pm. Just as I am ready to leave she txt's and says she has to cancel. All my backup POTS are MIA. Then the flake girl called back at 10 so I went over to her apartment. She was an average looking white girl. Like early 30's with some pudge. Even though I told her a $ beforehand when I saw her I told her. 4 was the best I could do. She took it and gave me a 45 minute BBBJ. Nothing special and I won't be repeating unless I am desperate for a. 4 BBBJ from an average looking white girl that likes being dommed and verbally humiliated. Good thing it was less than 10 minutes from my house. She wanted it really rough which kind of made it better (except I lost a little skin in the process). I made her finish me while I sat at the kitchen table with her kneeling on the floor, while I ate my Roscoes Chicken that I had picked up on the way to her place.

Thursday.

One thing you notice if you date a lot of black girls, is that about a third of them grew up in mostly or all white neighborhoods, hence their attraction to white guys. Another third may be from the hood, but only date white guys. And the last third may have never dated a white guy, but can't wait to. But anytime you interacial date (from any race) it always stokes the flames. You may seem as exotic to them as they seem to you. Don't want to get too racial, but it definitely makes things hotter from my perspective.

Fucked my ATF tonite. We are on a roll.

Friday.

Helped out an x SB with moving today. She offered to fuck me as repayment for my time but demanded it be a sleepover. Not what I had in mind, so I told her maybe another time. Recharge day today.

Saturday - 05.09.

The week is done. It ended on a good note with my church girl who now wants me to call her my # 1. LOL.

[QUOTE=Tdog69;2462513]Looking to upgrade to the Sugar Babe World. Anyone can pm some pointers. Where to look, how to approach?[/QUOTE]Search this board starting with the opening thread, move forward in time and take notes. Everyone learned by doing, shared their experiences and learned. So read it all. Don't forget the part about taking notes.

Z, I've been reading this forum daily for around a year and a half. I got through the first 150 or 200 pages, ran out of time chasing the babies. Seems I spend all my free time doing that now (good or bad, I don't know). If indeed you can put a summary together, it would be helpful. I'm WAY more seasoned and experienced from reading the posts however always more things to be learned.

[QUOTE=Zcochran00;2463414]Hurray. Just finished reading through all 607 pages of this incredible thread (admittedly skimming over much of the blow-by-blow updates, and focusing on the advice discussions). Having done so, I will go ahead and at least partially answer my own questions from my last post:

One good approach is HollywoodGuy's "5 Steps" message approach ([URL]http://coach4ula.wix.com/fivesteps[/URL]).

Looks like hotel rooms are the FC of choice almost every time. The major factors seem to be having SOs at home, and keeping yourself safe and anonymous.

I bookmarked a ton of posts while reading through, and will now go back through those to collate and sort out some of the massive amounts of info in this thread. I'll try to put up a couple summary posts once I'm done for the benefit of other newbies.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bowtie;2463737]Z, I've been reading this forum daily for around a year and a half. I got through the first 150 or 200 pages, ran out of time chasing the babies. Seems I spend all my free time doing that now (good or bad, I don't know). If indeed you can put a summary together, it would be helpful. I'm WAY more seasoned and experienced from reading the posts however always more things to be learned.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it got more and more annoying to see the repetitions of newbie questions and veteran "RTFF" replies as I went along. Typical for any long-lasting discussion group, though. I could point to similar examples in a number of completely different forums I've seen.

I did a bunch of categorization and tried to publish copies of the collected posts elsewhere for ease of access, but the admin took very understandable exception to that approach. I'll try to do some index posts with links in the next couple days instead. Not quite as easy to read through, but will pass muster and keep the focus here on the forum.

Meanwhile, I'm currently trying to do some more cataloging of potentials before I actually start sending out messages. Put together an MS Access database that lets me easily enter all their profile information, including copying and pasting a few of their profile pics, for ease of searching and filtering. Come to think of it, the template for that DB would probably be something I could safely link to if anyone was interested. Also looking at trying out some contact / address book and Customer Relation Management apps to see if any of those might be useful in tracking contacts and status. Yes, I do have a marked tendency to try to organize and collect information, why do you ask? I also like to do thorough research before diving into any new activity.

Having said all that, just ran across this profile post and thought I'd share for amusement. Total case of GPS here:

[QUOTE]You pay my bills, but me a car, pamper me, buy me thing, nice diners, give me cash. 1000 for each date + take me shopping and pamper me. NO SEX [/QUOTE]Uh. Yeah. Right.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2463459]The plus side with her is she doesn't ask for sugar. Her expectation is like normal dating. The sex is insane, mostly because she cums frequently and is very vocal during FC. She's even vocal during oral. The moaning when she's giving oral is so arousing. I truly believe this girl thoroughly enjoys it.[/QUOTE]After not seeing my SB for a couple of weeks due to family vacations and whatnot, we ended up on the wrong side of Aunt Flo this week. When that happens I've repeatedly made it clear that I'm ok with a no-sex hangout session (there's no sugar involved at this point). And so we spend some relaxing time catching up, cuddling, etc. Until the kissing got too intense and she couldn't help herself. Down came the shorts, and it was off to the races. Just one of a hundred data points that this girl truly loves oral. In her mind I don't think a trip to the FC would be complete without at least one BJ to completion.

But I still have to do a quick mental adjustment whenever that happens. I've been so conditioned by years of the SO treating a BJ like an ultimate gift / sacrifice, and as a result, usually not a terribly good one. But my SB seems to live to give oral.

Of course, now that I have a receptive partner, I'm finding that I really love to reciprocate. It's been fun to watch [B]her[/B] have to take the mental leap that a guy would (a) be any good at it, and (b) really, really enjoy doing it.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2464041]After not seeing my SB for a couple of weeks due to family vacations and whatnot, we ended up on the wrong side of Aunt Flo this week. When that happens I've repeatedly made it clear that I'm ok with a no-sex hangout session (there's no sugar involved at this point). And so we spend some relaxing time catching up, cuddling, etc. Until the kissing got too intense and she couldn't help herself. Down came the shorts, and it was off to the races. Just one of a hundred data points that this girl truly loves oral. In her mind I don't think a trip to the FC would be complete without at least one BJ to completion.

But I still have to do a quick mental adjustment whenever that happens. I've been so conditioned by years of the SO treating a BJ like an ultimate gift / sacrifice, and as a result, usually not a terribly good one. But my SB seems to live to give oral.

Of course, now that I have a receptive partner, I'm finding that I really love to reciprocate. It's been fun to watch [B]her[/B] have to take the mental leap that a guy would (a) be any good at it, and (b) really, really enjoy doing it.[/QUOTE]When I was married I was always pretty satisfied with the sex when I got it. And I had a strong attraction to my SO. But did I ever get it enough or was it as much overall fun as it is now? Sometimes, as we did go on a lot of romantic weekend trips (maybe once a month), but not nearly as often as it is now where any day of the week could be amazing. And my expectations are much higher now than they were then. Like any interest, over time you get more particular and in tune to what it is you really want and need.

So since I seem to be getting involved in this thread, might as well introduce myself. In my mid 30's, and spent most of my life here in SW Ohio. Blissfully single. Been hobbying the last few years, and now looking to try out the Sugar Bowl.

I'm in the computer industry and have a solid income, but for a variety of reasons (including frugality) my hobbying budget is somewhat limited compared to you guys (probably looking at more like 6 $/ mo). Fortunately, I'm also not looking to meet anywhere near as frequently as most of you, either. I'm really only looking for quality over quantity, maybe one or two SBs at a time. One meeting a week would be fine, especially given that it's more than what I'm doing now anyway. Obviously I'd take as much as I can get, but not planning to give HollywoodGuy a run for his money any time soon.

I've never been into the club / bar thing, or even all that much in the way of serious relationships. I'm also something of a stereotypical "nice guy", and have had a hard time in the past saying "no" when people ask for help. On top of that, I also have a tendency to get focused on one thing that I like, to the exclusion of alternate possibilities. Obviously, I'm going to have to really work on my mindset as I go along. Got to really learn to get my game face on, stick to the plan, and not get too hung up on particular possibilities too much.

Joined SA back at the start of the year and bookmarked an initial list of favorites. Paid up for one month, let it lapse, and decided to get serious about things last week. At this point I've got a pretty lengthy list of favorites, as well as a number who have favorited or contacted me.

So, as I prepare to dive in, here's the current situation. There's a couple girls in particular I really want to get to know (one I could actually see a chance to mentor a bit based on her profile). Another girl was actually recommended to me as a possibility. There's also a few who have messaged me recently and definitely expressed NSA-type interest, and finally others who listed NSA in their profiles.

There's no lack of possibilities as I start out. The real question is who do I contact first. Part of me wants to contact the mentor POT and the recommended POT, but the rest of me is thinking I should probably hold off on that, and respond to the girls who have contacted me already. Get some experience, see how those pan out, then contact the actual top possibilities once I've got more game.

Will try to post some occasional progress updates for you guys as I go along. Comments and suggestions are always welcome, of course, including thoughts on initial targets.

If you want to get with a young 8 or 9 in the DC area you are going to come off 700+. They're not going for anything less than that in my experience and someone is probably giving it to them.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2464243]When I was married I was always pretty satisfied with the sex when I got it. And I had a strong attraction to my SO. But did I ever get it enough or was it as much overall fun as it is now? Sometimes, as we did go on a lot of romantic weekend trips (maybe once a month), but not nearly as often as it is now where any day of the week could be amazing. And my expectations are much higher now than they were then. Like any interest, over time you get more particular and in tune to what it is you really want and need.[/QUOTE]Sex with my GF follows the pattern of every other relationship I've ever been in -- it becomes more of a routine part of life, like eating. I mean we all know the difference when we get a fantastic meal for dinner, but if we get a meal of similar quality every night, then the bar is raised and we get the same amount of overall satisfaction as if we got an average meal every night. The worst part however is that the euphoric feeling of a fantastic meal is much more elusive, because the definition of fantastic got changed when the bar was raised.

So yes, I'd say sex with the GF is good but it's never going to match sex with a stranger. Variety has always had a higher excitement factor for me. However, I've found that with SBs, the excitement factor isn't the same as with dating. It should be, god knows the girls are hot enough, and yes there is a sort of intrinsic excitement in banging someone less than half my age.

Yet, it still cannot provide me the same thrill the civy dating scene always did. There are a couple of reasons, purely psychological ones to be sure. First and foremost, in civy dating I always liked the idea of not knowing how things would turn out. I look back and there were these "spikes" of euphoria or excitement at certain points along the way. For example, spotting someone I wanted to talk to at a bar or club, and heading over to approach her -- there is something exciting and somewhat scary about not knowing if you're going to get her or get rejected by her. That fleeting combination of insecurity / bravado / curiosity is something I rarely get a chance to feel these days, and it doesn't happen with online dating of any type (including SD dating). Online civy dating has it's moments too -- meeting for the first time while not knowing if she looks as good as her pic, smelling her shampoo the first time she gets in the car. And best of all those times when it ends up going from dinner to bedroom in only a couple of hours.

I don't get those moments, at least not with the same intensity, from M&G with sugarbabies. The game I developed in civy dating apparently works a little too well as an SD -- so much so that I feel like some of the "game" has been removed. The hunt that was my core motivation in the first place. It's been replaced by a feeling of shooting fish in a barrel. One could say that there is some thrill to be had by the element of risk (I. E. Avoiding getting caught by the SO), but I don't get much out of that because I don't really have any sort of vendetta goal for my GF. She's a pretty good partner overall, maybe even a great one. If she were a real pain in the ass I might bang SBs just to be spiteful, but it's not like that at all. Which leads me to the next reason I'm getting diminishing returns from the bowl: my relationship with her seems to be getting better and better. The sex is what it is and will never return to the excitement it held when I first met her, but the part of a relationship that holds long-term rewards seems to be growing.

All truth be told, I really only do the SD thing these days for one reason -- because she goes to visit her family and leaves me here on my own. I normally summarize the situation by saying I don't like to be alone, but it's even more than that. I don't even know what to do with myself when alone if not chasing pussy -- it's like I don't cope well with boredom or isolation. I've been chasing pussy literally since before my teen years, but only when I was alone. Whenever I've been alone in my life (outside a relationship), I was like an always-on pussy scanner, looking for opportunity to get laid wherever I could find it. When I was single I probably had an account on every dating site available, and I would schedule new dates on weeknights when possible so that I could leave the weekends open for bar hopping. But when I'm in a relationship (and she's physically near enough to satisfy my sexual needs), it's like a switch is flipped off.

As soon as she leaves town, the switch is back on and it's just like I was a horny teenager again. Then "the game" tends to become meet and bang as many SBs as possible before she gets back, just to satisfy the need for variety. A need that, oddly enough, I probably won't even feel once she returns.

Weird, I know. I don't even understand it myself.

IluvSmellyFish,

Your situation is right on w / mine. SBs are great fun if you score good ones, but M&G, chatting, arranging for FC (I. E. , hotel), and hotel cost are all a bit too much hazard for me comparing to typical mongering experience.

The bowl is still tempting though.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2462232]I generally agree with the position that SBs ate sweeter and more fun. A few months ago I also thought I was done with mongering. This is no longer the case. Don't get me wrong, but the bowl does have its downsides. The downsides I am about to point out mainly relate to my specific situation though (e. G. I have an SO I have no intention of leaving, my location, my disposable income, etc.) so please take them with a grain of salt.

I've found recently that hotel prices in my region are two to three times what they were in the winter. Makes sense, but when you consider that into the budget, it makes trips to the FC very expensive. This of course is not an issue with those SDs who can host or who have SBs who ate willing to host. Unfortunately I cannot, and have yet to have a SB who can.

I have also found that I get bored of my SBs quickly. My current rotation is boring me only after a few months. I have my SO who fills my mental and emotional needs. Having SBs are great for their youth, the thrill of the "chase" and the newness of a new girl begging you to take their anal virginity, but like all relationships things get stale after a while. Some of these girls are sweet, but listening to some of them drivel on about their dreams of becoming an actress or a model, or whine about how some photographer didn't capture their picture which is why they didn't get a certain job can be exhausting.

While the contrast to mongering is obvious and the downsides of that world as compared to the bowl have already been well documented (e. G. SBs don't generally see 4 or 5 guys a day, etc.) I have recently realized that I will probably not fully exit that world either.

The quality of agencies in my region are outstanding. The large number of options also makes things very easy on my budget. Moreover, the work involved involves making a call or sending a text. No endless meet and greets, and games.

Don't get me wrong, I doubt I will ever leave the bowl either. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are upsides and downsides to both worlds. I suspect that when I have more time, when hotel costs drop back down, and when I end things with my current rotation (which will happen shortly since I'm growing bored of my existing lineup), I will re-up my SA account and back to setting up m&gs.

In the meantime, best of luck to all the players in the bowl![/QUOTE]