Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=Jeffinnatlanta;4775886]Though I disagree with the way Aaron interprets the facts and the decision he makes based on those facts, he's not wrong. Except for his definition of brief. I thought it was a Johnny Mapalo post at first.

There's no black and white here. Stay completely closed and the economy dies. Open up completely and you save jobs and get the economy going, and people (a lot more) will die. There is a spot in the gray area between that will save jobs and save lives, but some jobs and some lives will (and have already been) lost. The problem is people are too busy fighting over what suits them best and they don't take the time to see the big picture. And no one knows for sure what this virus really is or does. No one is completely wrong here, everyone is just basing their decisions on their point of view and their (limited) knowledge of how many people this virus has infected and killed. Like the 7 blind men and the elephant. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant[/URL].

Ever see a picture of those acres of graves at Arlington or WW II era grave sites in Europe? I wonder how long before we see those here in the US. I know, some of you don't believe that will come to pass. Do me a favor and PM me your list of UTRs before you go out. Have all the fun you can stand out there. I will keep sheltering and working from home until this things sorts itself out.

Good luck either way.[/QUOTE]It's not the military graves but the ones like a whole row at Marietta where kids died during the Spanish Flu of 1918 era. BUT, we have much better medicine these days and, for the most part, the young survive quite quickly. I am not saying the virus is a scam, I am saying that Fed, CDC, and thereby the states have admitted to fudging the numbers of COVID deaths to increase the fear. It does not increase the pandemic, only the fear. They have straight out admitted regardless of the true cause of death, anyone dying with COVID gets counted as a COVID death and that tells me I cannot trust their numbers. Plus there are too many in government who sound like they would sacrifice their own mother to ruin what was a booming economy just to try and make Trump look bad.

Happy Hunting and Stay Safe. But use your own discretion and common sense and stop letting others think for you.

Except the understanding of what happens if we open the economy and the number of people dying jumps to 3 K or more every day. If that happens the economy dies, because this economy is driven on consumer consumption. If the death rate spikes and climbs, people will again retreat to their homes, businesses will die from the lack of customers. Corporations like Boeing, Ford, GM, and their associated suppliers will die. Airlines like Delta, AA, United, Southwest will die, and their associated suppliers. Everyone seems to think that this issue is one of public health versus economic health. It's not, don't even try to conflate the two. If people do not feel safe, they will not go to work, they will not buy cars, refrigerators, houses. They will not travel. The virus drives how the consumer will act. Not even the 1918 pandemic had this much of an impact, but in our globalized world economy of the 21st century it does. Even if everything goes right, and right now its not. Most economists see unemployment staying about 10% or more for years. That is 15 to 20 million unemployed people.

And just to give prospective to how devastating this virus has been to the economy. The month of April unemployment wiped out all the jobs created since the Great Recession. Think about that and we know those numbers are under reported, because most state DOL can't handle the number of applications for UI.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775981]It's not the military graves but the ones like a whole row at Marietta where kids died during the Spanish Flu of 1918 era. BUT, we have much better medicine these days and, for the most part, the young survive quite quickly. I am not saying the virus is a scam, I am saying that Fed, CDC, and thereby the states have admitted to fudging the numbers of COVID deaths to increase the fear. It does not increase the pandemic, only the fear. They have straight out admitted regardless of the true cause of death, anyone dying with COVID gets counted as a COVID death and that tells me I cannot trust their numbers. Plus there are too many in government who sound like they would sacrifice their own mother to ruin what was a booming economy just to try and make Trump look bad.

Happy Hunting and Stay Safe. But use your own discretion and common sense and stop letting others think for you.[/QUOTE]If anything the numbers have been downplayed. And a big part of that is the Federal Government, CDC and NIH. Here is the Orange Turd, doing it for political reasons.

But accurate numbers are anywhere for 1 to 8 weeks behind. Most reported deaths are those they can directly attribute to Covid19. The real number where Covid19 was a contributing factor and is reported incorrectly is probably higher by as much as 30% according to some reports.

[URL]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736[/URL](20) 30933-8/ fulltext.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4776138]Except the understanding of what happens if we open the economy and the number of people dying jumps to 3 K or more every day. If that happens the economy dies, because this economy is driven on consumer consumption. If the death rate spikes and climbs, people will again retreat to their homes, businesses will die from the lack of customers. Corporations like Boeing, Ford, GM, and their associated suppliers will die. Airlines like Delta, AA, United, Southwest will die, and their associated suppliers. Everyone seems to think that this issue is one of public health versus economic health. It's not, don't even try to conflate the two. If people do not feel safe, they will not go to work, they will not buy cars, refrigerators, houses. They will not travel. The virus drives how the consumer will act. Not even the 1918 pandemic had this much of an impact, but in our globalized world economy of the 21st century it does. Even if everything goes right, and right now its not. Most economists see unemployment staying about 10% or more for years. That is 15 to 20 million unemployed people.

And just to give prospective to how devastating this virus has been to the economy. The month of April unemployment wiped out all the jobs created since the Great Recession. Think about that and we know those numbers are under reported, because most state DOL can't handle the number of applications for UI[/QUOTE]The virus has not been devastating to the economy. Our blind, panic-stricken response to the virus has been devastating to the economy, aided and abetted by the fear mongering media and agenda pushing hacks from both the political and medical opportunists. If fear continues to prevail then we are finished both as a society and as a nation. It's up to us as to what we will and won't continue to accept. That will determine whether we survive or not. It won't be some third rate virus that kills us, it will be us that kills us.

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4776176]If anything the numbers have been downplayed. And a big part of that is the Federal Government, CDC and NIH. Here is the Orange Turd, doing it for political reasons.

But accurate numbers are anywhere for 1 to 8 weeks behind. Most reported deaths are those they can directly attribute to Covid19. The real number where Covid19 was a contributing factor and is reported incorrectly is probably higher by as much as 30% according to some reports.

[URL]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736[/URL](20) 30933-8/ fulltext.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Here's the bottom line: if we live in fear of this virus for much longer, we will destroy the economic foundation of the greatest nation on earth. The ramifications of that destruction will dwarf the impact of the virus, even if the virus is left unchecked with no mitigation. That's fact. The best solution is to immediately open up this nation, accept the fact that a statistically very small percentage of our population will get the disease and a much smaller percentage of those infected will die (Less than 2 percent of all infections.) That's a hard choice to make, but it is the ONLY choice.

Think about what it means to have 30 million people apply for unemployment. Entire industries, aviation, gaming (casinos), petroleum, are dying and we cannot print enough money to overcome the damage.

Thankfully, there is hope in fighting the virus. Vaccines can potentially be available by the end of the year (Pfizer, others), we are a smarter, more distanced population, and there are improved therapies.

And, anyone who quotes the blankety-blank NY Times loses all credibility with me. I subscribe to the Times, read it every freaking day, and it is full of the most biased, slanted, often factually inaccurate "reporting:" I've seen in my 50 year media-related career. The Times is a disgrace to journalism.

Oh, and whoever called the president an "orange turd. " You are completely lacking in originality, and be glad you have him as president. You know why there's even a chance of a vaccine by the end of the year? Because Trump jawboned the health care companies, the FDA, to make it happen.

Please if anyone feels at risk, stay home. Just don't expect taxpayers to send you another damn 1200 bucks.

Let's get back to work. Now.

[QUOTE=Allen981;4776671]Here's the bottom line: if we live in fear of this virus for much longer, we will destroy the economic foundation of the greatest nation on earth. The ramifications of that destruction will dwarf the impact of the virus, even if the virus is left unchecked with no mitigation. That's fact. The best solution is to immediately open up this nation, accept the fact that a statistically very small percentage of our population will get the disease and a much smaller percentage of those infected will die (Less than 2 percent of all infections.) That's a hard choice to make, but it is the ONLY choice.

Think about what it means to have 30 million people apply for unemployment. Entire industries, aviation, gaming (casinos), petroleum, are dying and we cannot print enough money to overcome the damage.

Thankfully, there is hope in fighting the virus. Vaccines can potentially be available by the end of the year (Pfizer, others), we are a smarter, more distanced population, and there are improved therapies.

And, anyone who quotes the blankety-blank NY Times loses all credibility with me. I subscribe to the Times, read it every freaking day, and it is full of the most biased, slanted, often factually inaccurate "reporting:" I've seen in my 50 year media-related career. The Times is a disgrace to journalism.

Oh, and whoever called the president an "orange turd. " You are completely lacking in originality, and be glad you have him as president. You know why there's even a chance of a vaccine by the end of the year? Because Trump jawboned the health care companies, the FDA, to make it happen.

Please if anyone feels at risk, stay home. Just don't expect taxpayers to send you another damn 1200 bucks.

Let's get back to work. Now.[/QUOTE]When COVID-19 first appeared on the horizon, Trump could have made different choices in terms of taking it seriously and responding aggressively in the early going. Instead, he downplayed and denied until it was too late, and since then he's spent most of his time chasing his ass. Hence the grade of D- awarded by Melinda Gates, who knows a thing or two about pandemics, to the administration for its handling of the coronavirus.

For some indication as to how things might have gone if Trump had taken a different course, look no further than Germany. There, Angela Merkel was a lame duck who was sinking into the muck before COVID-19 hit. But now, thanks to her effective handling of the pandemic, her approval rating has surged, and she looks set to end her time in office on a high note. Oh, and because COVID-19 infections are on the downswing in Germany (truly on the downswing, not wishful-thinking on the downswing), Germany is moving forward with reopening, with substantial PUBLIC buy-in. It wasn't long ago that the President of the United States was regarded as the leader of the free world, but these days that title may have been ceded to the Chancellor of Germany.

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4776847]When COVID-19 first appeared on the horizon, Trump could have made different choices in terms of taking it seriously and responding aggressively in the early going. Instead, he downplayed and denied until it was too late, and since then he's spent most of his time chasing his ass. Hence the grade of D- awarded by Melinda Gates, who knows a thing or two about pandemics, to the administration for its handling of the coronavirus.
.[/QUOTE]Please tell us why, when he started imposing restrictions such as banning flights from China and telling people to start avoiding large crowds, Pelosi went to China Town of SF and told people to come out out and that Trump was nuts? DeBlasio did the same thing in NYC?

We were and still are being lied to from China. You are doing nothing more than Monday Morning quarterbacking. This should not be about hate Trump and destroy the economy and promise some form of safety in exchange for our liberty. I want liberty far more than their brand of safety.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4776885]Please tell us why, when he started imposing restrictions such as banning flights from China and telling people to start avoiding large crowds, Pelosi went to China Town of SF and told people to come out out and that Trump was nuts? DeBlasio did the same thing in NYC?

We were and still are being lied to from China. You are doing nothing more than Monday Morning quarterbacking. This should not be about hate Trump and destroy the economy and promise some form of safety in exchange for our liberty. I want liberty far more than their brand of safety.[/QUOTE]Let's clear the air about the flights from China.

1. It was flights, not people.

2. If a infected person had a layover in say Japan, S. Korea, Singapore that was fine.

3. As most epidemiologist noted, he close the front door and left the back door open to Europe. Guess where the infections on the East coast came from?

Honestly the federal response to this entire virus as been one fuck up after another. Our daily death rate has already hit 3 k and that is before the effects of reopening has been felt. When it hits 5 K by the end of May, will people start taking it seriously?

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4776985]Let's clear the air about the flights from China.

1. It was flights, not people.

2. If a infected person had a layover in say Japan, S. Korea, Singapore that was fine.

3. As most epidemiologist noted, he close the front door and left the back door open to Europe. Guess where the infections on the East coast came from?

Honestly the federal response to this entire virus as been one fuck up after another. Our daily death rate has already hit 3 k and that is before the effects of reopening has been felt. When it hits 5 K by the end of May, will people start taking it seriously?[/QUOTE]It's not that people aren't taking it seriously, it's that some are taking it far more serious than others and that upsets that group. Clark Howard was stating this morning that people are so afraid to go to the ER when they have a stroke or heart attack or other medical emergency because that have been made paranoid about catching COVID. That is how stupid we have become as a society.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4777224]It's not that people aren't taking it seriously, it's that some are taking it far more serious than others and that upsets that group. Clark Howard was stating this morning that people are so afraid to go to the ER when they have a stroke or heart attack or other medical emergency because that have been made paranoid about catching COVID. That is how stupid we have become as a society.[/QUOTE]Well as the famous comedian Ron White as said many times, "You can't fix stupid". Hopefully, this is nature's way of cleansing the gene pool of stupidity. We have made it too easy for it to continue to exist.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker]Pelosi went to China Town of SF and told people to come out out and that Trump was nuts? DeBlasio did the same thing in NYC?[/QUOTE]Sorry Trump's False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown has been soundly debunked by factcheck.org.

To sum up: Pelosi did visit Chinatown in late February in an effort to encourage people to go there to eat and shop. But she did not support parades or parties, try to show the coronavirus didn't exist or delete a tweet of her visit, as Trump claimed.

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/[/URL]

[QUOTE=SgtLurker]We were and still are being lied to from China.[/QUOTE]South Korean President, Moon Jae-in and German Chancellor Merkel of Germany heard those same lies coming out of China but still acted immediately. Their COVID-19 cases are on the downswing whilst our USA COVID cases keep rising. What did Trump do? He lied, obfuscated, deflected and continues to spew out false statements.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker]You are doing nothing more than Monday Morning quarterbacking[/QUOTE]The facts are the facts. See the attached chart for a timeline of Trumps COVID-19 excuses.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker]This should not be about hate Trump and destroy the economy and promise some form of safety in exchange for our liberty. I want liberty far more than their brand of safety.[/QUOTE]I'm not hating on Trump, but as I mentioned in an earlier post I do not blame Trump for creating this virus Pandemic but I do hold him solely responsible for badly mishandling our response to it. As they say the buck stops with the President. On the economy, public health will determine when the economy returns to full normalcy, if we get a second spike in COVID cases due to all the state reopenings then all bets are off for this economy ever coming back anytime soon or until a vaccine is produced.

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4777372]Sorry Trump's False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown has been soundly debunked by factcheck.org.

To sum up: Pelosi did visit Chinatown in late February in an effort to encourage people to go there to eat and shop. But she did not support parades or parties, try to show the coronavirus didn't exist or delete a tweet of her visit, as Trump claimed.

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/[/URL]


South Korean President, Moon Jae-in and German Chancellor Merkel of Germany heard those same lies coming out of China but still acted immediately. Their COVID-19 cases are on the downswing whilst our USA COVID cases keep rising. What did Trump do? He lied, obfuscated, deflected and continues to spew out false statements.

The facts are the facts. See the attached chart for a timeline of Trumps COVID-19 excuses.

I'm not hating on Trump, but as I mentioned in an earlier post I do not blame Trump for creating this virus Pandemic but I do hold him solely responsible for badly mishandling our response to it. As they say the buck stops with the President. On the economy, public health will determine when the economy returns to full normalcy, if we get a second spike in COVID cases due to all the state reopenings then all bets are off for this economy ever coming back anytime soon or until a vaccine is produced.[/QUOTE]I do not trust Factcheck. Org anymore than I do Biden. It does not matter at this point what Trump may or may not have said, Pelosi was spreading the same incorrect information. You and others are obviously a Trump hater as you use words like Spew, lied, etc. They all, left, right, center, up, down, you name it, did not know the full seriousness of the disease. As I have said, I am not saying it is not serious, but I do not believe it to be as deadly as the government is saying and since they have admitted to falsely increasing the numbers, I cannot trust them. The real number that will get downplayed is how may had it, did not know it or thought it the flu, treated it as the flu, and got better and never reported it to anyone. Those numbers would show it as being a lot more survivable than the CDC statistics let on. Fauci has found himself once more in the limelight and he is milking it for all it is worth.

Me thinks, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours. You and bunch of others want to continue to hide in your rabbit-hole leaves more pussy for the rest of us.

Do not go outside or you will fucking die.

China Virus heat map displays the horror.

Areas in green represent 1/3 of all known China Virus cases.

Areas in yellow represent 1/3 of all known cases.

Areas in red represent 1/3 of all known cases.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4778050]I do not trust Factcheck. Org anymore than I do Biden.[/QUOTE]Yet you trust Trump who averages 23.5 lies a day or 18000+ lies all told over his three plus year term....lol

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarkowitz/2020/05/05/trump-is-lying-more-than-ever-just-look-at-the-data/[/URL]#4 f3758 eb1 e17.

Image below depicts China Virus deaths not cases as earlier reported.


Green is 1/3 of China Virus all deaths.

Yellow is 1/3 of China Virus all deaths.

Red 1/3 of all China Virus deaths.

[URL]https://www.projectveritas.com/video/funeral-directors-in-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-of-deaths/[/URL]

How many of the deaths in NYC attributed to corona are actually from corona? This snippet gives you reason to question. [URL]https://www.projectveritas.com/video/funeral-directors-in-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-of-deaths/his[/URL] Doesn't this just sound like NYC? I would bet there are other places doing the same thing!

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4778550]Do not go outside or you will fucking die.

China Virus heat map displays the horror.

Areas in green represent 1/3 of all known China Virus cases.

Areas in yellow represent 1/3 of all known cases.

Areas in red represent 1/3 of all known cases.[/QUOTE]

Thats the definition of a closed mind! Of course you don't trust factcheck! That goes along with not liking facts that don't correspond with your views.

ARG.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4778050]I do not trust Factcheck. Org anymore than I do Biden. It does not matter at this point what Trump may or may not have said, Pelosi was spreading the same incorrect information. You and others are obviously a Trump hater as you use words like Spew, lied, etc. They all, left, right, center, up, down, you name it, did not know the full seriousness of the disease. As I have said, I am not saying it is not serious, but I do not believe it to be as deadly as the government is saying and since they have admitted to falsely increasing the numbers, I cannot trust them. The real number that will get downplayed is how may had it, did not know it or thought it the flu, treated it as the flu, and got better and never reported it to anyone. Those numbers would show it as being a lot more survivable than the CDC statistics let on. Fauci has found himself once more in the limelight and he is milking it for all it is worth.

Me thinks, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours. You and bunch of others want to continue to hide in your rabbit-hole leaves more pussy for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ARegularGuy;4779124]Thats the definition of a closed mind! Of course you don't trust factcheck! That goes along with not liking facts that don't correspond with your views.

ARG.[/QUOTE]This describes where I am at on this issue. If you say I cannot handle facts that contradict, aren't you as well? Each person can come to their own conclusion, use common sense and take personal responsibility. OR, we can take either extreme.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4779252]This describes where I am at on this issue. If you say I cannot handle facts that contradict, aren't you as well? Each person can come to their own conclusion, use common sense and take personal responsibility. OR, we can take either extreme.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Two members of the White House coronavirus task force placed themselves in quarantine after contact with someone who tested positive for COVID-19, another stark reminder that not even one of the nation’s most secure buildings is immune from the virus,” the AP reports.

CNN: Dr. Anthony Fauci to begin “modified quarantine.”

The New York Times reports it’s “the latest sign of worry that the coronavirus could be spreading through the senior ranks of the Trump administration.[/QUOTE]The Corona hoax is hitting closer and closer to home.

[QUOTE=Allen981;4776671]Here's the bottom line: if we live in fear of this virus for much longer, we will destroy the economic foundation of the greatest nation on earth. The ramifications of that destruction will dwarf the impact of the virus, even if the virus is left unchecked with no mitigation. That's fact. The best solution is to immediately open up this nation, accept the fact that a statistically very small percentage of our population will get the disease and a much smaller percentage of those infected will die (Less than 2 percent of all infections.) That's a hard choice to make, but it is the ONLY choice.

Think about what it means to have 30 million people apply for unemployment. Entire industries, aviation, gaming (casinos), petroleum, are dying and we cannot print enough money to overcome the damage.

Thankfully, there is hope in fighting the virus. Vaccines can potentially be available by the end of the year (Pfizer, others), we are a smarter, more distanced population, and there are improved therapies.

And, anyone who quotes the blankety-blank NY Times loses all credibility with me. I subscribe to the Times, read it every freaking day, and it is full of the most biased, slanted, often factually inaccurate "reporting:" I've seen in my 50 year media-related career. The Times is a disgrace to journalism.

Oh, and whoever called the president an "orange turd. " You are completely lacking in originality, and be glad you have him as president. You know why there's even a chance of a vaccine by the end of the year? Because Trump jawboned the health care companies, the FDA, to make it happen.

Please if anyone feels at risk, stay home. Just don't expect taxpayers to send you another damn 1200 bucks.

Let's get back to work. Now.[/QUOTE]I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.

Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.

[QUOTE=Admin2;4779762]I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.

Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.[/QUOTE]I think that it is too late. I think that the powers that wanted the shutdown and wanted the destruction of the American economy have succeeded, in no small part because they succeeded in scaring enough people out there to help them with their agenda of destruction. When they were able to achieve that kind of leverage then the battle was lost. Now all they have to do is to continue the irrational fear mongering that the virus will kill virtually everyone who comes into contact with it in order to strangle the economy to death. I have been warning about the consequences of this for weeks now on this thread, that what we are doing to ourselves will, not maybe, WILL lead to societal breakdown and the inevitable conclusion of chaos and violence. In short, we will be killing each other in the streets. It has been dismaying to me how few people out there refuse to believe such a scenario, that they continue to encourage the mindless shutdowns and loss of basic civil liberties all in the name of being "safe". The illusion of being safe is the Trojan Horse of our times, unfortunately too many of you will only understand that when it is too late, which it now is. When enough people out there realize that the lives they had before this started have been destroyed by those of you who were willing participants in this sham then the violent retributions will begin. As I have said before, we could have protected the most vulnerable from this disease AND maintained a stable economy but for far too many of you out there that modicum of common sense was unacceptable to you. Shut it all down, you cried with stunning myopia. You are about to realize the fruits of that myopia and then you will scream "How did this all happen" right before they come for you and kill you because they have nothing left, because you enabled the powers to take their lives and their livelihoods away from them with your fearful, trembling groupthink. It's coming, groupthinkers. You have done well. Now sit back and enjoy the fruition of your fears. It could have played out much differently, but you didn't want that. Soon it will be time for the piper that you have created to be paid. Too bad that it will be all of us who will have to pay your debt, a debt that many of us saw coming and did not want. Too late now.

[QUOTE=DickMGood;4778993][URL]https://www.projectveritas.com/video/funeral-directors-in-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-of-deaths/[/URL]

How many of the deaths in NYC attributed to corona are actually from corona? This snippet gives you reason to question. [URL]https://www.projectveritas.com/video/funeral-directors-in-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-of-deaths/his[/URL] Doesn't this just sound like NYC? I would bet there are other places doing the same thing![/QUOTE]$13 K xtra taxpayer dollars for China virus deaths and another $30 k if used ventilator. Been over a month that Dr's have been saying ventilators do more harm in China Virus patients. But $30 k is $30 k.

Imbeciles still squawk about need more testing. Last week CBS faked a testing event in Detroit to show demand where there was none. Minn. Gov is begging people to get tested. They have capacity for 10 k tests per day but only doing 4 k.

[URL]https://www.projectveritas.com/news/cbs-news-this-morning-aired-faked-covid-19-drive-through-testing-site-line/[/URL]

Germany's reported that China told WHO on Jan 21st to sit on the fact that China Virus was transmitted human to human. They did. Fuck China. Fuck the WHO. Fuck WHO leader Cholera Ted.

[URL]https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3931126[/URL]

[QUOTE=Admin2;4779762]I actually called him a shitstain not an orange turd, and I agree with everything else in this post. Not all liberals are starry eyed loons as you would wish them to be.



Sadly like all issues in the US it's become binary and the people who are still pushing the lockdowns refuse to process 2nd and 3rd order effects.

It may be too late, I doubt a V shaped recovery is possible. Demand is being systematically destroyed in the US.

I think the impending global recession is going to kill orders of magnitude more people than the rona ever would have.[/QUOTE]First is was me calling him an "Orange Turd" which a common term of endearment for him by independents and liberals. Sort like the nicknames the right has for Obama.

Second, too many people still do not have any idea of the impact this can have if we just go back to precovid ways. I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave. He told me that part of the reason it was so much worse, was that it so many of the healthcare workers were sick early on, and died or had to quarantine. There simple was not enough people to take care of those that got sick.

I have been talking to a lot of healthcare workers just in the North Atlanta area. A lot of them are not get paid the overtime they worked, are still not getting tested regularly, and are sick and tired of not being able to spend time with their families and kids. There is going to be a real shortage of nurses / med techs and doctors come the next wave in 3 months.

As far as 2nd and 3rd order effects. Those are meaningless unless people feel safe. For example it does no good if you open your restaurant and can on seat 25 or 50% of capacity. Restaurants don't operate based on that, they operate based on 80% or more of all their tables filled. Their operating margins are tight enough. Now they will have to pay their bills and buy food at premiums. Finally if the wait staff can make enough tips to reach the minimum wage, the restaurant owner has to make up that difference. This is the real world facts that business owners have to face. Open up now, and hope for some silver bullet for covid19 saves them. Or stay closed, and hope that Congress gets its collective head out of its ass and comes up with a real solution to keep business viable until we have a solution for the entire population.

Well, I am pretty sure that global recession in 2008/2009 did not kill more people that all of the diseases. More likely suicide rates increased some. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession.[/URL].

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4779978]First is was me calling him an "Orange Turd" which a common term of endearment for him by independents and liberals. Sort like the nicknames the right has for Obama.

Second, too many people still do not have any idea of the impact this can have if we just go back to precovid ways. I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave. He told me that part of the reason it was so much worse, was that it so many of the healthcare workers were sick early on, and died or had to quarantine. There simple was not enough people to take care of those that got sick.

I have been talking to a lot of healthcare workers just in the North Atlanta area. A lot of them are not get paid the overtime they worked, are still not getting tested regularly, and are sick and tired of not being able to spend time with their families and kids. There is going to be a real shortage of nurses / med techs and doctors come the next wave in 3 months.

As far as 2nd and 3rd order effects. Those are meaningless unless people feel safe. For example it does no good if you open your restaurant and can on seat 25 or 50% of capacity. Restaurants don't operate based on that, they operate based on 80% or more of all their tables filled. Their operating margins are tight enough. Now they will have to pay their bills and buy food at premiums. Finally if the wait staff can make enough tips to reach the minimum wage, the restaurant owner has to make up that difference. This is the real world facts that business owners have to face. Open up now, and hope for some silver bullet for covid19 saves them. Or stay closed, and hope that Congress gets its collective head out of its ass and comes up with a real solution to keep business viable until we have a solution for the entire population.

Well, I am pretty sure that global recession in 2008/2009 did not kill more people that all of the diseases. More likely suicide rates increased some. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Great_Recession.[/URL].[/QUOTE]Nothing will work until people feel safe and part of that is when people stop treating corona as if it's the pandemic of 1918, serology testing shows it's not and medical science has improved since 1918. Covid is nowhere near as lethal as once thought and it's time to stop treating it as if it's ebola. The projected 10,000,000 dead in the hammer and dance was wrong. The UK guys 2,000,000 was as wrong as he was on mad cow, swine flu, bird flu, ect. The 1. 5 million the CDC called for was wrong. I'm not saying it's nothing, it's obviously a bad bug but it's not ebola, it's overall case mortality rate is going to be less than a 10th of a percent.

Sweden has made it clear, lockdowns are unnecessary. I get it, you planted your flag on lockdowns and nothing will make you change your mind but you're wrong and Dr Katz and Dr Tegnell are right.

Barry Bluestone (lefty economist) in the book "The De-Industrialization of America" arguing against business offshoring jobs for profits says that every 1% rise in joblessness is directly responsible for 38,000 deaths. Joblessness in the US is up probably 14%. That's 500,000 bodies from 2nd and 3rd order effects.

A friend of mine said it best "If every week was Shark Week and that's all that was on every channel 24/7 people in Kansas would be afraid to take showers. ".

Heart disease is going to kill 650,000 people this year. Why isn't every single news outlet publishing stories about the dangers of saturated fat every day?

The UN is saying that several hundred thousand kids will die as a result of the world wide recession coming in the wake of the corona shutdowns, it really angers me when people use shame to say that opening up the economy will kill people. [url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-children-un/u-n-warns-economic-downturn-could-kill-hundreds-of-thousands-of-children-in-2020-idUSKBN21Y2X7[/url] Like I said, the number of people who die from corona mitigation will probably be an order of magnitude than would have died from it. Please don't call them meaningless. You are talking about millions of lives worldwide. Millions of people dying slow deaths from malnutrition.

They made the decisions with the best info they had available at the time, new info is now available but nobody wants to change the decision. Doesn't make sense to me. Well, except you're a lefty like me and that's the party line. You wouldn't believe the hate mail I'm getting in my personal life because I'm not toeing that line. I get it, everybody you know is telling you that going outside means you and grandma die and nobody is presenting you options.

You are.

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4779978]

I was fortunate enough to spend time with my grandfather who was doctor in New York during the 1918,1919,1920 pandemic (yes it lasted 3 years). He describe the daily struggle that he went thru, with triage and dealing with deciding who lived and who could not be saved. But what struck me was what he said about the 2nd wave. [/QUOTE]Did your Grandpa explain to you the effects WW 1 had on the second and third waves. WW 1 at that time the largest global migration in history. How more US soldiers died of Spanish Flu than in battle. Sick soldiers packed into troop trains / ships with the healthy. Packed in the trenches to fight, dying on top of each other. Sick packed into the field hospitals. Packed into the hospitals once they made it back to the states spreading it all around. Hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic carriers returning home and spreading disease. He tell you how Wilson's political advisors told him not to send more soldiers to Europe because too many were dying but his military advisors told him if he didn't Germany would own Europe so he kept sending them. Grandpa tell you how effective antibiotics and testing were? Probably not because they had neither. Wouldn't have penicillin for another 25 years. There's a lot more to this story.

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?[/QUOTE]If he is 80 years old, you need to take a break and listen to anything he has to say. Having experienced "history" first hand is a lot more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results in something I did in the toilet this morning.

Anyone remember elementary school where you'd all line up, the teacher would whisper something into the first kid's ear, then everyone was told to repeat it verbatim? Last kid in line got it all wrong. That's the best you can get with regurgitating news feeds.

Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780556]more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results



Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.[/QUOTE]No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780575]No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.[/QUOTE]No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?[/QUOTE]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780604]No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.[/QUOTE]You think anecdotal evidence is more valid than actual facts and data? You don't think WW 1, thats right 1, had any effect on the second and third wave of the spanish Flu?

A M-16A1 and I can't tell you how to clean it blindfolded, war hero.

Where did I copy and paste anything from an newspaper opinion piece or a new article?

You want to cower in fear inside tho facts tell you if you're healthy and under 60 your risk is minimal at best, do it.

Someone here once referred to you as an old drunk. At that time I wondered why. I don't anymore.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4780808]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.[/QUOTE]It's possible his grandpa was a young doctor in the early 1900's and what he describes actually happened, but when someone frames all re the China Virus from a political perspective, spits out propaganda and warns of mass death, second and third waves, as they tell half truths or plain bullshit, they have a political aim. As mentioned, they toe the party line. Spit out talking points from some hot sheet found in their inbox. I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouth.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]Did your Grandpa explain to you the effects WW 1 had on the second and third waves. WW 1 at that time the largest global migration in history. How more US soldiers died of Spanish Flu than in battle. Sick soldiers packed into troop trains / ships with the healthy. Packed in the trenches to fight, dying on top of each other. Sick packed into the field hospitals. Packed into the hospitals once they made it back to the states spreading it all around. Hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic carriers returning home and spreading disease. He tell you how Wilson's political advisors told him not to send more soldiers to Europe because too many were dying but his military advisors told him if he didn't Germany would own Europe so he kept sending them. Grandpa tell you how effective antibiotics and testing were? Probably not because they had neither. Wouldn't have penicillin for another 25 years. There's a lot more to this story.

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy[/QUOTE]First of all my grandfather was born in 1888. Which made him 30 at the time off WW I. So yeah. Second while he had a draft card, his was a high number. Understand WW I had minimum impact, for two reasons.

1. It was already raging in the US before the troops even deployed.

2. The second wave hit in December of 1918. US troops were still in Europe or on their way home.

When he passed he was 85 in 1973. Yes I was 10. So there is your math.

The impact of returning troops was pretty minimal with regard to the 2nd wave.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780604]No copy / paste? That's all you do. .[/QUOTE]This is copy and paste: Forty years ago another flu from Asia killed a population adjusted 250 thousand Americans and life went on as normal.

'In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the USA, mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.

"In 1968/69," says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, "the H3 N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the USA Than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars. ".

Nothing was closed by force. Schools mostly stayed open. Businesses did too. You could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 planned in January during the worse period of death actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going demographic.

Stock markets didn't crash because of the flu. Congress passed no legislation. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Not a single governor acted to enforce social distancing, curve flattening (even though hundreds of thousands of people were hospitalized), or banning of crowds. No mothers were arrested for taking their kids to other homes. No surfers were arrested. No daycares were shut even though there were more infant deaths with this virus than the one we are experiencing now. There were no suicides, no unemployment, no drug overdoses attributable to flu. '.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4780808]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.[/QUOTE]My grandfather was born in 1888. I was born in 1963. He passed away in 1973. The math is pretty straight forward.

I am totally confused at the lack of basic comprehension skills and concern by some of the posters on this thread. There is an abundance of evidence that while this is not the 1918 flu, it is not influenza either. Why this is compared to the 1918 pandemic, is simple. Because if we followed the social interactions like they did 100+ years ago, then yeah we could potentially lose millions of fellow Americans.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780885]This is copy and paste: Forty years ago another flu from Asia killed a population adjusted 250 thousand Americans and life went on as normal.

'In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the USA, mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.[/QUOTE]You sort of left off some info.

There were a few important events occurring that overshadowed this pandemic.

1. Vietnam War.

2. Upcoming Apollo 11 launch / Moon Shot.

3. Robert Kennedy and MLK assassinations.

4. Warren Investigations into the JFK assassination.

5. The Race Riots in summer of 1968.

And this pandemic really did not stand out compared to regular influenza seasons for the period.

From the NIH / NCBI.

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/[/URL]

Similarity Between Pandemic and Nonpandemic Influenza Seasons.

With the notable exception of the 1918 pandemic, each influenza pandemic season was less lethal than the prior one, reflecting the overall seasonal trend in influenza deaths.

Compared with nonpandemic seasons, the 1957-1958 and 1968-1969 pandemics do not stand out as exceptional outliers, nor were these pandemics visually discernable from nonpandemics in seasonal (Figure 1) or monthly (Figure 2) influenza mortality graphs.

In fact, although nonpandemic influenza seasonal death rates never exceeded prior pandemic seasonal death rates, many nonpandemic seasons were more deadly than subsequent pandemics.

For example, the 1941-1942,1942-1943,1943-1944,1944-1945,1945-1946,1946-1947, and 1952-1953 nonpandemic seasons were all deadlier than the 1957-1958 pandemic season.

Similarly, the 1959-1960 nonpandemic season was almost as deadly as the 1968-1969 pandemic season (Table 1).

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4780920]You sort of left off some info.

There were a few important events occurring that overshadowed this pandemic.

1. Vietnam War.

2. Upcoming Apollo 11 launch / Moon Shot.

3. Robert Kennedy and MLK assassinations.

4. Warren Investigations into the JFK assassination.

5. The Race Riots in summer of 1968.

And this pandemic really did not stand out compared to regular influenza seasons for the period.

From the NIH / NCBI.

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/[/URL]

Similarity Between Pandemic and Nonpandemic Influenza Seasons.

With the notable exception of the 1918 pandemic, each influenza pandemic season was less lethal than the prior one, reflecting the overall seasonal trend in influenza deaths.

Compared with nonpandemic seasons, the 1957-1958 and 1968-1969 pandemics do not stand out as exceptional outliers, nor were these pandemics visually discernable from nonpandemics in seasonal (Figure 1) or monthly (Figure 2) influenza mortality graphs.

In fact, although nonpandemic influenza seasonal death rates never exceeded prior pandemic seasonal death rates, many nonpandemic seasons were more deadly than subsequent pandemics.

For example, the 1941-1942,1942-1943,1943-1944,1944-1945,1945-1946,1946-1947, and 1952-1953 nonpandemic seasons were all deadlier than the 1957-1958 pandemic season.

Similarly, the 1959-1960 nonpandemic season was almost as deadly as the 1968-1969 pandemic season (Table 1).[/QUOTE]Exactly. A virus from China killed a pop adj 250 k Americans and life went on. Crime, murders, wars, protests, govt investigations and a massive concert attended by 400,000. Restaurants, bars, sports leagues, business' stayed open. No lockdown quarantines

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780838]You think anecdotal evidence is more valid than actual facts and data? You don't think WW 1, thats right 1, had any effect on the second and third wave of the spanish Flu?

A M-16A1 and I can't tell you how to clean it blindfolded, war hero.

Where did I copy and paste anything from an newspaper opinion piece or a new article?

You want to cower in fear inside tho facts tell you if you're healthy and under 60 your risk is minimal at best, do it.

Someone here once referred to you as an old drunk. At that time I wondered why. I don't anymore.[/QUOTE]You still don't know how to abbreviate World War One? It is WWI and World War Two is WWII. And it's "An" M-16 A1, not "A" M-16 A1. Were you absent during first grade?

Who is cowering in fear about anything? Obviously not me and I haven't worn a mask yet. I do keep one in my truck though, in case it becomes mandatory for the general public.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4781050]Exactly. A virus from China killed a pop adj 250 k Americans and life went on. Crime, murders, wars, protests, govt investigations and a massive concert attended by 400,000. Restaurants, bars, sports leagues, business' stayed open. No lockdown quarantines[/QUOTE]You are still missing the point. If you had read the entire article. Then you would have seen the part about the vaccines have little or no impact on the influenza death.

Implications for Influenza Vaccines.

Historical influenza mortality data contain many relevant implications for influenza vaccination campaigns.

The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination.

Because vaccination did not become available until the 1940's and was not widely used until the late 1980's.

This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II.

Points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses.

I found that declining mortality rates occurred simultaneously with expanded influenza vaccine coverage since 1980.

Especially for the elderly (65 years and older). However, recent research suggests that vaccination is an unlikely explanation of mortality trends.

A 2005 US National Institutes of Health study of over 30 influenza seasons "could not correlate increasing vaccination coverage.

After 1980 with declining mortality rates in any age group. ".

Other research has reviewed available international studies of inactivated influenza vaccine effectiveness and efficacy.

One study concluded that "evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured. ".

Considered in light of the data presented here, these studies imply that other causes–such as an improvement in living conditions.

Or naturally acquired immunity from similar strains of influenza virus–may have been partially responsible for the declining trends in recorded influenza mortality.

The main reason we were able to bend the curve from an exponential growth in death rate.

Is because we took away the ability of the virus to spread because of social distancing.

Shutting down common gathering areas (churches / restaurants / stadiums / concerts / mass transit).

Did it stop it. No it allow our medical system to avoid complete collapse, it allow our medical system to start to catch up. We have now been about 2 weeks in Georgia easing of restrictions.

As you can see # of cases is increasing, despite Gov. Kemp's claim to the contrary.

[URL]https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/health-care/map-shows-latest-us-coronavirus-case-totals-state/[/URL]

May 8: 32,177, including 1,997 in Hall; 1,400 have died statewide, including 28 in Hall; NGHS is treating 123 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 406.

May 7: 31,600, including 1,958 in Hall; 1,352 have died statewide, including 27 in Hall; NGHS is treating 134 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 394.

May 6: 30,738, including 1,914 in Hall; 1,327 have died statewide, including 27 in Hall; NGHS is treating 134 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 388.

May 5: 29,852, including 1,836 in Hall; 1,294 have died statewide, including 26 in Hall; NGHS is treating 135 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 364.

May 4: 29,103, including 1,712 in Hall; 1,204 have died statewide, including 23 in Hall; NGHS is treating 125 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 348.

May 3: 28,602, including 1,695 in Hall; 1,177 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS data is not updated on the weekends.

May 2: 28,331, including 1,694 in Hall; 1,175 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS data is not updated on the weekends.

May 1: 27,492, including 1,481 in Hall; 1,165 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS is treating 146 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 318.

April 30:26,260, including 1,332 in Hall; 1,132 have died statewide, including 21 in Hall; NGHS is treating 153 patients with confirmed cases.

April 29:25,644, including 1,238 in Hall; 1,095 have died statewide, including 20 in Hall; NGHS is treating 159 patients with confirmed cases.

Does that look like the number is trending downward? And those are the reported cases. Who knows how many are asymptomatic.

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4781385]You are still missing the point. If you had read the entire article. Then you would have seen the part about the vaccines have little or no impact on the influenza death.

Implications for Influenza Vaccines.

Historical influenza mortality data contain many relevant implications for influenza vaccination campaigns.

The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination.

Because vaccination did not become available until the 1940's and was not widely used until the late 1980's.

This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II.

Points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses.

I found that declining mortality rates occurred simultaneously with expanded influenza vaccine coverage since 1980.[/QUOTE]Seems Gainesville has become a new hot spot for C-19 in Georgia, per my local newspaper. I'm curious why. Did the Gainesville Times reveal any clues for the uptick?

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4781671]Seems Gainesville has become a new hot spot for C-19 in Georgia, per my local newspaper. I'm curious why. Did the Gainesville Times reveal any clues for the uptick?[/QUOTE]Hey Nite, it's undoubtedly because of the Chicken processing plants. The majority of the workers are Hispanic, most likely living in close quarters with multiple family members. Both the working and living conditions are very much a predisposing factor to transmission.