Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=Allen981;3411324]The day I have to browbeat girls on price at the end of the month to save a few bucks is the day I quit the hobby.

In fact, I've often padded the envelope without prompting.

Of course, that's the way I've run my personal business over the years, and I ain't changing now.

Have I been screwed over a time or two? Sure, but the positives have far outweighed any negative. Some girls, you'll never see again; others smoke or snort it away. But others, you see them a second time, they treat you very well. And a few, you might see a spark to get back to real life. I've seen girls go from backpage to a classroom teaching, another who is a very successful writer, and another who works in finance for a large company.

Conduct yourself as you like, but remember that while these girls are down and out, you're down in the slop with them. Newbies, rest assured, playing cheap will cost you in the long run.

Just my take, and I've had a ton of fun along the way.[/QUOTE]I believe in always treating people with respect until they take it for granted, regardless of who it is.

The thing is, providers are more like drug dealers than respectable establishments, and they will get over on us any chance they get. They also sniff out weakness like bassetthounds and prey on the easy victims. Hence, the common no black men rule.

Paying as little as possible is just universal good business. I only tip when it's deserved for good service. Many providers will appreciate being treated well anyway. No reason to pay extra accross the board. This is where some of these providers get their crazy ideas from. I'm not cool with hour rates for qvs with girls who look the same and give the same service. I can understand a little more for those who really enjoy what they do.

[QUOTE=HeadHunting;3415221]

Paying as little as possible is just universal good business. [/QUOTE]No, it's not.

Good business is paying what you've decided something is worth; that, in turn, is limited by what you can sustainably afford.

I can hardly resist lecturing on economics, but I'm going to resist the temptation and just lay this out practically as a Guide to Monger Finance. (EDIT: I lectured a little bit.)

You have to make two decisions here: what fraction of take home pay do you want to commit to the hobby, and what frequency do you want to indulge in it. Multiply your take home by the fraction, and divide that by the frequency, and you have your budget per encounter; then, simply adhere to it within a 20% range (either way) to give you on-site flexibility. It's pretty simple.

Example:

Melvin the Monger makes $200,000 per year. Melvin is smart, so he maxes his 401 k, cafeteria plan, and Roth (about $28 k total), so after taxes he's taking home about 110 k (varies by state). Melvin understands that he's setting about 10% of his income aside for retirement, and because he's not a huge loser, he's definitely not spending more than THAT on rental pussy, so he decides spending 2% seems reasonable: this gives Melvin a $2200 annual budget for The Hobby.

Now, this means Melvin can do $40 quickies every week, or a $180 escort monthly, or a porn star quarterly, or some mix. Melvin is a fairly successful guy, so he really doesn't see himself tussling with hood rats, so he nixes the $40 quickies, and instead treats himself to hourly sessions at a KAMP, or hitting up a stripper he knows, etc. That's his thing, and he's pretty happy.

Notice, though, that a guy who makes $600,000 is going to have three times the budget, OR his buddy at the firm with the same income might just hobby more seriously and devote 10% of his after-tax to the hobby, also tripling his budget. It can vary.

So you see, when you have mongers with different incomes, varying levels of interest, and different frequency needs, you suddenly wind up with a range of prices, from Melvin's occasional $40 quickie to our $600 k guy who just hits Vegas once a quarter to fuck a $1500 porn star. That's a HEALTHY market.

Here's an fun fact about pricing, courtesy of power law probability distributions: If the average price of a service is $X, then 20% of the market will be willing to pay $4X for an upgraded version of the service, and 20% of the market will be willing to pay $X /4 for a downgraded version; after that, 4% of the market will be willing to pay $16X for a VERY nice version of the product, and 4% will be willing to pay $X /16 for a VERY downgraded version. If you have a large enough market, 0. 8% will pay $64X for an AMAZING version of the product or service, and 0. 8% will be willing to pay $X /64 for a version just not even worth having.

That's why we have a world in which pedestrians slogging through rain and Bugatti Veyrons can coexist.

Looking at adult services, what does this mean? If the average (and I'm pulling a number from a hat for sake of illustration here) cost of a pay for play encounter is $100 for 30 minutes, than that means the market tails are going to look something like a $2 5-minute blowjob from a TS junkie on one end, and an all-night $6400 porn star fuckfest on the other. It's a big range, and a healthy marketplace WANTS an array of service categories to fill out the distribution, just like we want a range of cars from a used Pinto to a Rolls Drophead.

Mongers come in all income categories, all frequency preferences, and a range of service level interests, and the market is always going to reflect that, and it's just stupid to complain about it. That's like complaining that some mongers are taller or shorter: you're bitching about one of the fundamental laws of nature, probability distributions. It's just not cool!

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3415423]No, it's not.

Good business is paying what you've decided something is worth; that, in turn, is limited by what you can sustainably afford.

I can hardly resist lecturing on economics, but I'm going to resist the temptation and just lay this out practically as a Guide to Monger Finance. (EDIT: I lectured a little bit.)

You have to make two decisions here: what fraction of take home pay do you want to commit to the hobby, and what frequency do you want to indulge in it. Multiply your take home by the fraction, and divide that by the frequency, and you have your budget per encounter; then, simply adhere to it within a 20% range (either way) to give you on-site flexibility. It's pretty simple.

Example:

Melvin the Monger makes $200,000 per year. Melvin is smart, so he maxes his 401 k, cafeteria plan, and Roth (about $28 k total), so after taxes he's taking home about 110 k (varies by state). Melvin understands that he's setting about 10% of his income aside for retirement, and because he's not a huge loser, he's definitely not spending more than THAT on rental pussy, so he decides spending 2% seems reasonable: this gives Melvin a $2200 annual budget for The Hobby.

Now, this means Melvin can do $40 quickies every week, or a $180 escort monthly, or a porn star quarterly, or some mix. Melvin is a fairly successful guy, so he really doesn't see himself tussling with hood rats, so he nixes the $40 quickies, and instead treats himself to hourly sessions at a KAMP, or hitting up a stripper he knows, etc. That's his thing, and he's pretty happy.

Notice, though, that a guy who makes $600,000 is going to have three times the budget, OR his buddy at the firm with the same income might just hobby more seriously and devote 10% of his after-tax to the hobby, also tripling his budget. It can vary.

So you see, when you have mongers with different incomes, varying levels of interest, and different frequency needs, you suddenly wind up with a range of prices, from Melvin's occasional $40 quickie to our $600 k guy who just hits Vegas once a quarter to fuck a $1500 porn star. That's a HEALTHY market.

Here's an fun fact about pricing, courtesy of power law probability distributions: If the average price of a service is $X, then 20% of the market will be willing to pay $4X for an upgraded version of the service, and 20% of the market will be willing to pay $X /4 for a downgraded version; after that, 4% of the market will be willing to pay $16X for a VERY nice version of the product, and 4% will be willing to pay $X /16 for a VERY downgraded version. If you have a large enough market, 0. 8% will pay $64X for an AMAZING version of the product or service, and 0. 8% will be willing to pay $X /64 for a version just not even worth having.

That's why we have a world in which pedestrians slogging through rain and Bugatti Veyrons can coexist.

Looking at adult services, what does this mean? If the average (and I'm pulling a number from a hat for sake of illustration here) cost of a pay for play encounter is $100 for 30 minutes, than that means the market tails are going to look something like a $2 5-minute blowjob from a TS junkie on one end, and an all-night $6400 porn star fuckfest on the other. It's a big range, and a healthy marketplace WANTS an array of service categories to fill out the distribution, just like we want a range of cars from a used Pinto to a Rolls Drophead.

Mongers come in all income categories, all frequency preferences, and a range of service level interests, and the market is always going to reflect that, and it's just stupid to complain about it. That's like complaining that some mongers are taller or shorter: you're bitching about one of the fundamental laws of nature, probability distributions. It's just not cool!

O.[/QUOTE]And this is why I never argue with ozy.

Although I can appreciate a lecture on microeconomics I don't need a dissertation to get this point the across. Its not lost on people that some make more than others and some have more to spend than others. When people point out how stupid it is to overpay it is with that in mind. Instead I'll use my two friends Webster and Urban. The man himself admits he never tries to negotiate and even will "pad the envelope unprompted". Anyways try to keep up.



[QUOTE=Webster's Dictionary;Overpay]
Verb.

Gerund or present participle: overpaying.

Pay (someone) too highly.

"many fans think our top players are overpaid".

Pay (money) in excess of what is due.

"to overpay taxes". [/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Urban Dictionary ;Simp]
A man that puts himself in a subservient / submissive position under women in hopes of winning them over, without the female bringing anything to the table.

A man that puts too much value on a female for no reason.

A man that prides himself with "Chivalry" in hopes of getting sexual gratification form women.

A square with no game other than "Rolling out the Red-Carpet" for every female.

The perfect example of a "Simp" Man would be:

The role Eddy Murphy played in the movie "Norbit".

The role of Kevin James in the show "Kind of Queens".

A "Yes Dear, Man" Simp. [/QUOTE]

By all means everyone has the right to spend how much they want on anything they buy. I doubt he will walk into a car dealership and pay double msrp for a car but why? He knows the value of that car. The problem here is that not a lot of men know the value of a butt selling woman and so they end up paying way more than they should. They have no street smarts. Which again is totally OK with me (I know the game and they tell me about guys like that all the time and how they take advantage of them) but should not be misunderstood as a lack of understanding of basic microeconomics.

[QUOTE=BunnerySgt;3415670]








By all means everyone has the right to spend how much they want on anything they buy. I doubt he will walk into a car dealership and pay double msrp for a car but why?[/QUOTE]No, no.

Okay, this is where people are failing to understand variable price points, and it's what's leading to arguments.

No one is advocating paying twice MSRP for a car. What's going on here is that ONE guy is willing to pay $40,000 for a fully-loaded Camry, while the other is paying $80,000 for a Tesla, but then the Camry guy is saying "hey, why are you spending $80,000 on a car? Cars cost $40,000!" You see where he's missing the point? If people like me are paying let's say twice as much for a session, that's not *your* session, it's a better session with a better girl, or better service, or longer duration. It's a different zone of the market. Don't try to compare apples with oranges.

Obviously, folks fall into a range of negotiation skills. If you want to fault someone for deliberately playing more for a service than it's worth, MAYBE there is some merit there (though even that* is arguable, given the subjectivity of value), but to try to have some kind of communist monger system in which all pricing is fixed by committee? That just damages the hobby.

Different mongers willing to pay different prices for different services from different girls is nothing but win; that makes the market worth participating in, by all agents.

O.

*(believe it or not, there's a fetish called financial domination: it's an S&M, B&D thing where guys get off on having girls tell them to give them money. Not my cup of tea, but again, it takes all comers to make a market!

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3415796]No, no.

Okay, this is where people are failing to understand variable price points, and it's what's leading to arguments.

No one is advocating paying twice MSRP for a car. What's going on here is that ONE guy is willing to pay $40,000 for a fully-loaded Camry, while the other is paying $80,000 for a Tesla, but then the Camry guy is saying "hey, why are you spending $80,000 on a car? Cars cost $40,000!" You see where he's missing the point? If people like me are paying let's say twice as much for a session, that's not *your* session, it's a better session with a better girl, or better service, or longer duration. It's a different zone of the market. Don't try to compare apples with oranges.

[/QUOTE]I can see that you still don't understand. A toyota has a toyota emblem. A tesla has a tesla emblem. If I took a Camry and put a tesla emblem on it would you still pay 80,000? Would you know it was a toyota tesla? Jizz guzzling cum buckets don't come with an MSRP. I (and many others) understand all men are not equipped with the skills and knowledge to recognize a toyota tesla which is why so many attempt to educate how to judge the value of these chicks.

Even so this really isn't even the argument is it? Men are willingly and admittedly over paying for snatch to earn favor with these women. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of the business itself. At the end of the day what you do with your money is your business. I can't tell you how many "agency" girls were on BP (or some other site) before or after their stint with that agency. Or how many guys on here have a UTR that I could probably meet at the mall and smash for free. I just don't like to see people who think that people (such as myself) who possess this knowledge simultaneously lack basic economics skills. You can't learn this stuff in a micro book.

[QUOTE=BunnerySgt;3415917]I can see that you still don't understand. A toyota has a toyota emblem. A tesla has a tesla emblem. If I took a Camry and put a tesla emblem on it would you still pay 80,000? Would you know it was a toyota tesla? Jizz guzzling cum buckets don't come with an MSRP. I (and many others) understand all men are not equipped with the skills and knowledge to recognize a toyota tesla which is why so many attempt to educate how to judge the value of these chicks.

Even so this really isn't even the argument is it? Men are willingly and admittedly over paying for snatch to earn favor with these women. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of the business itself. At the end of the day what you do with your money is your business. I can't tell you how many "agency" girls were on BP (or some other site) before or after their stint with that agency. Or how many guys on here have a UTR that I could probably meet at the mall and smash for free. I just don't like to see people who think that people (such as myself) who possess this knowledge simultaneously lack basic economics skills. You can't learn this stuff in a micro book.[/QUOTE]In that "overpaying" argument I think you have to include guys who will fuck a lard-assed ghetto ho for $40. To me, that's overpaying by about $140 or north of it. Those hawgs should be paying guys $100 or so to fuck them. Even then, I wouldn't fuck one with your worst enemy's dick.

My last comment ever on this stream.

For every woman involved in this business, every one, the decision to work in this manner is far more than an economic decision. Every female who becomes involved in this business must make an emotional, personal decision in response to the circumstances of their lives.

I don't care if it's a $10 streetwalker, or a $1,000 escort, they all must make that decision. And, for each, it's a very difficult thing to do.

Your approach serves to ignore how tough that choice is, to dehumanize these people, to turn them into a commodity. I believe mine recognizes the difficulty of their choice.

No one's pure in any of this. So, approach the hobby as you wish, and I will do the same.

Selah.

[QUOTE=BunnerySgt;3415917]I can see that you still don't understand. A toyota has a toyota emblem. A tesla has a tesla emblem. If I took a Camry and put a tesla emblem on it would you still pay 80,000? Would you know it was a toyota tesla? Jizz guzzling cum buckets don't come with an MSRP. I (and many others) understand all men are not equipped with the skills and knowledge to recognize a toyota tesla which is why so many attempt to educate how to judge the value of these chicks.

Even so this really isn't even the argument is it? Men are willingly and admittedly over paying for snatch to earn favor with these women. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of the business itself. At the end of the day what you do with your money is your business. I can't tell you how many "agency" girls were on BP (or some other site) before or after their stint with that agency. Or how many guys on here have a UTR that I could probably meet at the mall and smash for free. I just don't like to see people who think that people (such as myself) who possess this knowledge simultaneously lack basic economics skills. You can't learn this stuff in a micro book.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Allen981;3416404]My last comment ever on this stream.

For every woman involved in this business, every one, the decision to work in this manner is far more than an economic decision. Every female who becomes involved in this business must make an emotional, personal decision in response to the circumstances of their lives.

I don't care if it's a $10 streetwalker, or a $1,000 escort, they all must make that decision. And, for each, it's a very difficult thing to do.

Your approach serves to ignore how tough that choice is, to dehumanize these people, to turn them into a commodity. I believe mine recognizes the difficulty of their choice.

No one's pure in any of this. So, approach the hobby as you wish, and I will do the same.

Selah.[/QUOTE]You've hit the nail on the head. Nothing more to see here folks.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3415796]No, no.

Okay, this is where people are failing to understand variable price points, and it's what's leading to arguments.

No one is advocating paying twice MSRP for a car. What's going on here is that ONE guy is willing to pay $40,000 for a fully-loaded Camry, while the other is paying $80,000 for a Tesla, but then the Camry guy is saying "hey, why are you spending $80,000 on a car? Cars cost $40,000!" You see where he's missing the point? If people like me are paying let's say twice as much for a session, that's not *your* session, it's a better session with a better girl, or better service, or longer duration. It's a different zone of the market. Don't try to compare apples with oranges.

Obviously, folks fall into a range of negotiation skills. If you want to fault someone for deliberately playing more for a service than it's worth, MAYBE there is some merit there (though even that* is arguable, given the subjectivity of value), but to try to have some kind of communist monger system in which all pricing is fixed by committee? That just damages the hobby.

Different mongers willing to pay different prices for different services from different girls is nothing but win; that makes the market worth participating in, by all agents.

O.

*(believe it or not, there's a fetish called financial domination: it's an S&M, B&D thing where guys get off on having girls tell them to give them money. Not my cup of tea, but again, it takes all comers to make a market![/QUOTE]Paying twice more does not equal a better session though. Especially when you are taking one for the team with an unreviewed girl.

This argument gets so tiring.

The same girl charging 40 can turn around and charge 400. Just because she changed her rates, does it mean her service is "better" than before??

I've wasted plenty cash on 150+ providers. Most weren't worth the coin.

Allen981 you nailed it! Hope you don't mind me tweaking your comments a little bit to show how it can apply to hobbyists.

[QUOTE]

For every hobbyist involved in this business, every one, the decision to see escorts, street workers, etc is solely based on an emotional, personal decision in response to the circumstances of their lives.

I don't care if it's a hobbyist who sees a $10 streetwalker, or a $1,000 escort, they all must make that decision. And, for some, it's a very difficult thing to do.

No one's pure in any of this. So, approach the hobby as you wish, and I will do the same.

Selah.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;3418485]Allen981 you nailed it! Hope you don't mind me tweaking your comments a little bit to show how it can apply to hobbyists.[/QUOTE]I think his comment about dehumanizing these women is very important and should also be included. It's a great demonstration of how different vagina buyers view these women and how it affects the decisions they make when determining how much money to spend.

Some of these ideas appear to defy logic. How can you be a member of PETA but regularly attend and spend money on dog fighting? Seems crazy to me but it's always interesting to see different points of view from my own.

It let's you look into the minds of these man puppet / simps. Its funny how all these people who agree with Allen981 all have the same mentality as him. They all have this white knight soft hearted holier than thou mentality thinking that they're somehow helping these chics by "padding the envelope" and going out of their way to "treat them with respect". Guess what, at the end of the day your still a "stupid horny trick" just like the other guy who brow beated a chic for $40 service. Just look at the backpage review thread where someone who post very few reviews and gives little to no info on the board, calls me out for not giving chics high performance scores as if they're somewhat entitled to it.

These are the same guys that will write bogus exaggerated reviews, pad the envelope before services rendered, take chics out to dinner, go shopping for these chics before they get to a chics incall, etc. These dudes are so sensitive and corny that you can literally see them crying as they read an unfavourable review or read how a guy just low-balled a chic for a $30 qv. Dudes, this is not Somalia or fucking Afghanistan! This is America, a 1st world country. None of these chics are starving or doing this out of desperation. What some of these chics are charging for an all-covered qv service, you can get for a whole night in some 3rd world countries.

These chics are the ones who are getting over on you, not the other way around. These chics can get a legal job, welfare assistance, housing assistance, free help from churches, salvation Army, Goodwill and such. None of these chics are starving. If they say they are, just ask them what happened with the last person that told them they would be there in 20 minutes and chic decided to flake on them when they got there. Ask them about the last person that offered them $60 qv but they turned it down because they thought they wete too good for $60.

Reality is, these chics have got it good. There are not too many places in the world where an unknown gal can place an ad on the internet and charge $100 for a qv and actually get customers. Try that south of the border and see how many customers she gets. These chics are fully aware of what they're doing and they're doing this out of their own free will. They do this because they want that easy quick tax free money. If you sensitive guys are so benevolent as you think you are, why not call up random providers on backpage and offer them monetary assistance with no sexual compensation.

Offer to help them find a job with no sexual favors exchanged. I bet none of you holier than thou fools will do that. You still will be browsing the escort ads looking for chics who can suck your dick right. Your still gunna pad that envelope with extra money and give chics 7-9 in performance so she can suck your dick right. In my opinion, you dudes are worse than the dudes that lowball a chic for $40 service. You guys in your warped universe and warped way of thinking are actually trying to rationalize paying for sexual favors from "dehumanized commodity ".

Get a clue you retards. Your actually adding to the dehumanization of these chics. You think she feels better because she's sucking your dick for $200, opposed to sucking Parrot Range's dick for 15 bones. Your both adding to a chics dehumanization. Your just the dumbass that decided to pay more.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMapalo;3419256] (The usual us versus them rant).[/QUOTE]You make some great points about the relative ease with which these girls can make money if they just get their shit together, but your comments would carry more weight if you'd ever had an actual, good hobby experience; granted, your stories are comedy gold, but they function more as a warning about the hobby than reviews.

If you have one good encounter out of ten, and you're paying $40 per encounter, you're actually paying $400 for one good encounter; that's not really a bargain.

I'm probably at the other extreme of "careful and selective", but I have better than a 95% success rate on sessions, and I can recall ONE instance of a girl "flaking" in twenty-five years in the hobby (and that was an OTC stripper, not a proper escort). My value to cost ratio is pretty close to 1. I've never, ever "tipped", though; I like everything fixed cost, fair, and transparent, and I can't say I ever "talk" to these girls (other than to say "uh huh" and "oh, really?" if they go on about themselves) because once we're on the clock, I focus on service delivery; that said, if someone gets off on "being friends", whatever, it has no impact on me.

But it's pretty rich for someone who pours money into the hobby on a regular basis, receiving almost literally nothing in return, to go on about other people being "man puppets" or "simps".

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3419722]You make some great points about the relative ease with which these girls can make money if they just get their shit together, but your comments would carry more weight if you'd ever had an actual, good hobby experience; granted, your stories are comedy gold, but they function more as a warning about the hobby than reviews.

If you have one good encounter out of ten, and you're paying $40 per encounter, you're actually paying $400 for one good encounter; that's not really a bargain.

But it's pretty rich for someone who pours money into the hobby on a regular basis, receiving almost literally nothing in return, to go on about other people being "man puppets" or "simps".

O.[/QUOTE]This is probably the best assessment I've read on Mapalo's "reviews". It's great to see reviews, but JM's is more amusement than review and would have to agree if one's experience (whether escort or stripper) are more negative than positive, why stay so actively engaged? But since the prose of the review is so jovial, maybe it's not actually a negative encounter, and like most novels, attempts to leave it to the reader to interpret the nuances.