"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I've been trying to reduce the email chatter with the sb candidates. I've been asking new girls to meet at a hotel in my second or third communication. As reported SB13 and SB14 have agreed to meet. SB14 accepted the hotel meet right away and we are on for Thursday, as reported. Chances of fucking her are high.

Sb 13 asked me to call her and wanted to meet in a public place rather than a hotel for our first meeting. That's on for Friday. I think my chances of fucking her her are 50-50, but not this week.

Late today SB16, another 27 year old, slim, health care provider, accepted the hotel meet proposal in my second email but wants to meet in the hotel bar first. This is set for Saturday. I think chances of fucking her are maybe 60-40.

No more word from SB11 or SB15. I haven't asked the hotel question yet and have email going back months with both of them. SB15 who is the hot girl who seems skilled at the sb / sd business wants to have lunch but doesn't respond to my emails promptly, and SB11 who is the pretty 23 year old student has disappeared for the moment. Chances of me fucking either of these girls are 25 percent, no make that 15 percent, at most.

SB3, a cock teaser I met with months ago near Norfolk and gave sugar to after she sent me a pic of her pussy and who then wouldn't see me alone, emailed me today to ask me when we could get together. I'm not going to go out of my way for her but I may try to work her in when I'm in her neighborhood. Only because of her persistence I'll say the odds of me fucking her in the next month may be as high as 25 percent. But she may just be teasing again.

SB5, a heavy girl with a firm body I fucked in February, more or less by mistake, emailed me a couple days ago to say she was "hot and horny." I said,"sounds like you want to get laid, pretty girl." Today she replied,"Yes. Where and when?" I may slot her in as a back-up if one of the fresh sb pussies falls through.

Trying to learn lessons from these sb experiences, I think I should continue asking the hotel question on the second or third communication. It seems to speed things up and none of the girls has seemed offended.

Secondly, I haven't mentioned any allowance amount to any of the new girls and none of them has asked specifically about it, including the three who agreed to meet me this week. I don't think I have to say anything specific about it in an early communication.

Third, the more email I exchange with the girls it seems the lower the chances of fucking them quickly. Maybe its best to let their female imaginations answer their own questions rather than me try to deal with everything up front.

Fourth, there's no reason to burn a girl off who won't meet at first. She may decide to come around again later.

Just my opinions based on my experience to date. I'm learning as I go along. Others probably have different experiences.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1186836]Met a new SB over the weekend. 24, brand new to the area from up north and originally from eastern Europe (and still has a touch of accent, which was sexy) , lovely young lady and a body to die for... but as distant and stand-offish as I've ever seen. She indicated that she's had several big-money SD's in the past including one who shelled out $7K for cosmetic surgery. She was perfectly willing to do whatever sort of relationship I wanted, but was so mercenary about it that it was a complete turn-off. Girls like that tend to be lousy, selfish fucks too. I took a pass.[/QUOTE]I wasted a lot of time haggling over money with one of these a while ago. Looked gorgeous, but too mercenary. These must be traveling pros from Europe, right?

[QUOTE]Have a couple of new ones scheduled to met: SB4 is an older (early 40s) lady that may not be what I'm looking for physically but seems to have a great attitude. And attitude and experience can make up for mileage. [/QUOTE]My SB12 said she was 39 and was great with attitude and also looked good. I know what you mean. But I still hanker after the younger ones.

[Quote]SB5 is mid-20's and black, which is something I've avoided as my experiences with black girls in the past has been uniformly bad (attitude and constant drama) but this young lady is very attractive and seems to have her head screwed on straight, so I'm going to check her out.[/QUOTE]I haven't tried this yet but I've thought about it. Let us know what happens.

Good luck CWL!

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1186928]Glad to be mentioned among the group here but I am really just spectating for the most part. Trying to decide if the SB / SD motiff fits into my my repertoire. I have been following this thread closely and have also registered on the sbforme website. Most of what I have received from them is spam and responses from gals that do not fit my profile at all. Also quite a few that are listed on the website are known providers to me, either by personal visit or having seen their ads in the past.

So Varoom is highly amused and interested by the prospects of the SB / SD thing, but for the time being am just seeing well reviewed providers with my mongering. From my perspective it seems that the SB / SD thing requires much cultivation of the SB's in order to result into penetration, as Lit2 refers to it. Not sure whether I will pursue this further or not, but still under consideration for the time being. But know that I will continue to follow the thread with great interest as I evaluate the prospects of fitting this into my activities. [/QUOTE]Good mongering to you, Varoom. All kinds of experience can help with nailing down sbs who are sometimes elusive, so comment as you see fit.

Hey Literal, what did you ever decide about your SB4? Did you keep her around?

[QUOTE=Richmond Mas;1186943]I saw all these postings on the progress, and I am impressed. I wonder if I am doing something wrong. I have been in the game for one month and still have no bite. Might have to officially drop out of the game. All I got were people from CA and way far to even visit. No luck on any local girls yet. Hell, that's tougher than getting a million dollar government contract.[/QUOTE]As suggested, you might try the arrangements site. Also you could try revising your ad / profile. I think the best idea is to keep it short and positive. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1186953]I met with a potential SB last night for a meet and greet. I'll call her SSB3. She had a SD before and recently moved out of her BF's apartment and is now on her own. She models on the side and sent some of her modeling shots to me so I was encouraged.

But I have to say when I met her in person I was disappointed. I have a thing about teeth and hers were sort of gray and dingy looking. Her body was not also as toned as in the pictures. I was thinking perhaps she had recently had a baby or something, but she says not. I might have to pass or keep her around for emergency purposes. She's looking for a long term arrangement so she might not be open to being a part timer or second teamer. [/QUOTE]You have high standards, Spit. I hope you get the pussy you're looking for. I've found most, but not all, of the girls want a relationship / arrangement that goes on for a while. I think it's one way they convince themselves they aren't just doing it for money. Also I think the female mind is wired to do that, whereas we usually like to spread our seed around as widely as possible.

[QUOTE=Coolhand2; 1186960]I'm still plugging away. I'm continuing to make contacts but I'm having no luck in closing the deal. I had another no-show last week. I've got two 20 somethings I'm emailing back and forth with. One of them I talked to within the last hour. They both seem somewhat ambivalent about what a SB / SD relationship really is. They want financial help; they need financial help but are struggling with the straight forward nature of the transaction. I have tried to soften my approach (based on Lit's advice) and that does seem to allow me to remain in touch. The fact is I don't want a email buddy, I want pussy! I'm still amazed that women sign up for the sight but don't seem to realized what they have signed up for. Maybe I should focus on the 40 somethings.

I'm going to hang in there but a good straight forward provider is looking pretty good right now. [/QUOTE]That makes sense to me. You can always mess around with the sbs when you want to. Having a satisfying provider available ensures you won't go without pussy for long. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1187446]As suggested, you might try the arrangements site. Also you could try revising your ad / profile. I think the best idea is to keep it short and positive. Good luck with whatever you decide.[/QUOTE]Speaking of profile being short and positive, could you give an example of what is in your profile? I had looked at a few SD ads but not knowing what works and doesn't it was hard to determine. Since you have experimented with your profile maybe you could post a sample of yours. After adjustments. I had seen earlier advice on slightly altering the age, which I'm sure is done frequently by both SB's and SD's.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1187416]Hey Literal, what did you ever decide about your SB4? Did you keep her around?[/QUOTE]She's on the shelf at the moment. She's still my atf.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1187451]She's on the shelf at the moment. She's still my atf.[/QUOTE]On the shelf. By her choosing or circumstance, or yours? Just curious.

You would be getting close to needing a social secretary once you get into SB 20 and beyond, don't you think?

Ha-ha

[QUOTE=Literal2;1187407]I wasted a lot of time haggling over money with one of these a while ago. Looked gorgeous, but too mercenary. These must be traveling pros from Europe, right?[/QUOTE]I'm not sure. She indicated she moved from eastern Europe to Chicago in her pre-teen years, had recently moved down here with a "boyfriend" that she had broken up with but was still living with until she gets on her feet, and might move elsewhere if things looked better.

The quality of her English and her mix of European and Chicago accent lends some credence to her story, but then those kind of stories always sound very fishy to me. She said she used to love him, but this girl is soooo blatantly mercenary that I have a very hard time believing she could ever see any male as anything but a source of income.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1187455]On the shelf. By her choosing or circumstance, or yours? Just curious.

You would be getting close to needing a social secretary once you get into SB 20 and beyond, don't you think?

Ha-ha[/QUOTE]It's my choice. As to the number of sbs, I've never had so many girls to choose from in my life. I was always kind of below average I felt when it came to the ability to date women. I've had to work hard to find satisfactory escorts over the years too. Many of them were terrible. This sb scene just seems to work for me at the moment.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1187590]It's my choice. As to the number of sbs, I've never had so many girls to choose from in my life. I was always kind of below average I felt when it came to the ability to date women. I've had to work hard to find satisfactory escorts over the years too. Many of them were terrible. This sb scene just seems to work for me at the moment.[/QUOTE]I must be doing something wrong. Seems like no sb is interested in me. If all of you guys are scoring, I need to change me approach. SB is definably different from the escort scene. I have better luck with the pros. I pick and go. With the sb, I can pick all I wanted, but there is no go to this at all.

I was going to give up, but after reading your post. I am going to change my approach and hang in there.

[QUOTE=Richmond Mas;1187610]I must be doing something wrong. Seems like no sb is interested in me. If all of you guys are scoring, I need to change me approach. SB is definably different from the escort scene. I have better luck with the pros. I pick and go. With the sb, I can pick all I wanted, but there is no go to this at all.[/QUOTE]I think the one thing you'll hear consistently from everyone who's done this is that it takes work. That is not a understatement. It really does. I had early success but have now hit a dry spell. I had a 22yr old single mother who I had made great progress with through email. We came to a meeting of the minds on everything; the meeting was all set; drinks and then if comfortable, the room. Then she asked the left field question: are you married? This is something I never lie about to a SB so I answered in the affirmative. She absolutely bailed; would not budge. Gave me a long spiel about creating bad karma. I was a little astounded because I assume 70% of the men on the SD site are married and the women know it. A lot of time and effort on my part got us to the point of doing the deed and then no joy. I'll give her credit for one thing, she didn't schedule and then be a no-show. That's what I hate most of all.

Don't judge yourself to harshly and remember that Lit is the gold standard. He's the beacon that keeps the rest of us going. May he live forever! Hang in there Rich.

[QUOTE=Coolhand2; 1187785]I think the one thing you'll hear consistently from everyone who's done this is that it takes work. That is not a understatement. It really does. I had early success but have now hit a dry spell. I had a 22yr old single mother who I had made great progress with through email. We came to a meeting of the minds on everything; the meeting was all set; drinks and then if comfortable, the room. Then she asked the left field question: are you married? This is something I never lie about to a SB so I answered in the affirmative. She absolutely bailed; would not budge. Gave me a long spiel about creating bad karma. I was a little astounded because I assume 70% of the men on the SD site are married and the women know it. A lot of time and effort on my part got us to the point of doing the deed and then no joy. I'll give her credit for one thing, she didn't schedule and then be a no-show. That's what I hate most of all.

Don't judge yourself to harshly and remember that Lit is the gold standard. He's the beacon that keeps the rest of us going. May he live forever! Hang in there Rich. [/QUOTE]Cool, it sounds like the 22 year old was frustrating. I've never gotten anywhere with sbs under 23 although at least two promised to meet and then disappeared. My youngest sb to date was 23 and totally whacked out, drinking and smoking, dirty and erratic. Another 23 year old on my list for months disappears when I get close. The young ones are the best trophies, the tightest bodies, the wettest pussies, and the finest to fuck of course, but they are difficult to deal with and pin down.

Re "gold standard." I don't think so. As of 20 minutes ago SB14 had failed to confirm (after I confidently predicted I would fuck her today) and SB15 never responded to my offer of lunch today (which she requested) , so I was going to post about how today was a total loss. I left sb14 a voice mail yesterday as she had requested, so I was bummed. She just confirmed by email so I guess we are on and I do plan to open up her pussy and poke around in there this afternoon after all. However, I don't kid myself about this. Anyone can have a dry spell and I'm sure I will encounter a no-show sb, maybe even sb14 later today. In my case I got started with sbs after a no-show fake Richmond escort named Becka last year. I've just been lucky.

One thing I worry about with my new strategy of trying to get agreement to meet at a hotel as quickly as possible after first contact. If there is no money promised, what is the incentive for the girl not to stand me up when a concrete offer comes along? I think I will get away cheaper if I don't use a specific amount as a hook, but there will probably be more no-shows.

SB13 hasn't responded to the lunch invitation for tomorrow she requested either and I won't know until tomorrow if sb16 will confirm our meet at a hotel bar for Saturday, let alone whether she will let me fuck her on Saturday which is what I'd prefer.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1187416]Hey Literal, what did you ever decide about your SB4? Did you keep her around?[/QUOTE]I just love that girl's ass.

I may be wrong about never having an sb under 23. SB8 was about 22 but she was really fat and sloppy looking. Besides I didn't fuck her, I just took some pix of her spreading her pussy.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1187450]Speaking of profile being short and positive, could you give an example of what is in your profile? I had looked at a few SD ads but not knowing what works and doesn't it was hard to determine. Since you have experimented with your profile maybe you could post a sample of yours. After adjustments. I had seen earlier advice on slightly altering the age, which I'm sure is done frequently by both SB's and SD's.

Thanks in advance. [/QUOTE]Ha ha. No thanks.

All I will say is that my profile is short, sweet and positive. Give it a shot, see what happens Vroom.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1188103]Ha ha. No thanks.

All I will say is that my profile is short, sweet and positive. Give it a shot, see what happens Vroom. [/QUOTE]Lit:

Just to be clear, I am not asking you to "out" your own personal profile here. Just possibly compose a sample. But I understand any reluctance to do so.

Actually with the one that I wrote, it seems to be drawing plenty of hits even though many are for age ranges outside of the one that I posted. (54. Which is younger than actual age based on your advice) , and most are "GU"; Geographiclly Undesirable. Outside of an area that I would consider traveling for a SB. Which frankly isn't too far for me, as I wouldn't go more than a 100 mi radius for me. I figure if I can't get laid properly within 100 mile radius then I can't get laid. Which hasn't been an issue to date, just not with SB's.

Another angle that I have cultivated similar to SB's, are dancers. Not the avg ones but those that seem to have their act somewhat together. Void of chemcials, or at least any hardcore habits, that like to hook-up for private parties outside of the establishment. I know this is not the same thing but it functions as such for me. A little more personal contact than a typical escort (also cheaper) and an ongoing fuck if I want it. The crop of a few that I have cultivated here are early to mid 30's and fine in the specimen and performance dept. Just another angle that seems to be much easier than the legwork of finding the gals like Lit and the gang are doing.

One more thing Lit. Even though you deny this, you are surely the gold standard here amongst those of us that post in this thread. No harm no foul that you have SB's not following thru to meetting, (or meating) , it is the fact that you others that are readily plugged into the matrix to replace the dead wood. That my friend. Is impressive. Anyone who has 16 or 17 SB's is the "TRUE SD" in my book. Cheers to Lit2. Varoom.

SB14 has now reconfirmed this afternoon's hotel room meet two more times. Still no discussion of dinero. I sure hope she has long legs to wrap around my hips, a sweet mouth to suck on my tongue while we're fucking and a deep vagina so cumming inside her will be pleasurable for me. But I don't know. I've never seen her before. Maybe she'll look like a dog.

SB13 has confirmed tomorrow's meet and greet. Chances are revised upwards to 65 percent that I'll fuck her within the next week or two (but not tomorrow). Only one sb has walked away after meeting me, old, bald and fat as I am. That was SB3.

I'm jamming SB16 a little bit, reminding her of how much the hotel room costs to pressure her from the bar where she wants to meet on Saturday up to the room where I can unwrap her and finger her pussy for a while before deciding how I want to fuck her. But this may fall through. I can't be sure she'll even show up.

And as for sb3, there have been additional emails from her today, after a long period in which I didn't hear anything from her. She says she'll come to my hotel next weekend if I get to her area. I'm thinking about it. She is so unreliable, but she has nice ta tas and a big round butt. I'll bet she cums hard. I may try to find out.

Yes, this is a lot of work I know. But I don't mind it too much.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1188072]One thing I worry about with my new strategy of trying to get agreement to meet at a hotel as quickly as possible after first contact. If there is no money promised, what is the incentive for the girl not to stand me up when a concrete offer comes along? I think I will get away cheaper if I don't use a specific amount as a hook, but there will probably be more no-shows.[/QUOTE]This has been my standard approach. I have taken it as a means to avoid misunderstanding. My thought was that if I wanted subsequent meetings that clarity was best. The problem is that it may be keeping me from having the first meeting. You are unknowingly competing in a auction without the opportunity to rebid. Someone comes along and offers more and you are toast. Hence the no-shows, which has been a problem for me. As with most things, how do you achieve the proper balance?

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1188271]This has been my standard approach. I have taken it as a means to avoid misunderstanding. My thought was that if I wanted subsequent meetings that clarity was best. The problem is that it may be keeping me from having the first meeting. You are unknowingly competing in a auction without the opportunity to rebid. Someone comes along and offers more and you are toast. Hence the no-shows, which has been a problem for me. As with most things, how do you achieve the proper balance?[/QUOTE]How to close, when to close, etc. Age old questions.

Sure, we aren't talking about selling here, but in a sense you are selling your purse strings in exchange for a coveted service to the SB. It is damned hard to have the tempo and know how of when to close (make the proper offer in a manner that doesn't scare away the intended target) in an email. I would say that if this is working, for the most part these are what are known as "lay downs" in the business world; aka easy marks, like shooting fish in a barrel.

So since most aren't getting the fish in the barrel types, wouldn't it make more sense to arrange a meeting, for a drink or dinner. Ala courting style, and see what common ground you have with the young lady? This just makes sense to me, but then you may not wish to invest the time of $ in meeting. That could be understood but it seems that one could be missing relatively easy or at least interested targets, (since they have expressed initial interest in being a SB) , by attempting to ink the deal via email. I would think that most potential SB's would be more receptive to a meet and greet, then rub some knees, which allows them to think of this as more than a gash for cash. But then I am just using some business logic here, having little experience in the SB cultivation business, but having lots of exp in the cultivation of getting laid process. Just some ideas for thought here.

Here is a fairly generic and positive sample ad (not mine) :

I'm a generous 99 year old male looking for a lady who likes to be well taken care of. Let's meet up for drinks or dinner to chat and determine our compatibility. Your time is as valuable as mine, so let's make the most of it. Hoping for a drama free mutually beneficial arrangement.

. . . . , it is not "Escorts."

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1188271](edit delete) My thought was that if I wanted subsequent meetings that clarity was best. The problem is that it may be keeping me from having the first meeting. You are unknowingly competing in a auction without the opportunity to rebid. Someone comes along and offers more and you are toast. Hence the no-shows, which has been a problem for me. As with most things, how do you achieve the proper balance?[/QUOTE]Excuse me, but the present discussion of [I]how to get the girl to the hotel and in bed earlier and how to avoid being outbid[/I] is best achieved by seeing an internet escort in the first place. So why is this approach even being considered with a civie? It won't work except with a girl in serious distress. We shouldn't want a girl in distress because we are taking advantage and we will be resented. Nothing good will come from that.

Rather, we should find a girl and meet her for coffee under circumstances where moving things to an unplanned dinner is possible. If things go well at coffee move it to dinner. Put something [I]meaningful[/I] in her purse at dinner [I]without saying a word, without looking at her[/I]. Let her make the next move and the clothes will come flying off in appreciation. That is an "arrangement." We allow her to [I]give to someone who is not a taker[/I]. We become important rather than resented.

This involves a little risk, of course, but the reward is much greater.

Be careful, some of you will be playing with fire. Real escorts know the no call, no contact rules. Civies don't. You can’t get away from a girl who knows how to find you.

SB14 was penetrated on schedule. A hard working delivery truck driver it turns out. Short, round above and below with a waist and nice long brown hair. Very unskilled and slow with her technique but happy to be well fucked. She accepted a mouth full of my sperm. I doubt I see her again, but I respect her. She and her kind keep the country running.

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1188271]This has been my standard approach. I have taken it as a means to avoid misunderstanding. My thought was that if I wanted subsequent meetings that clarity was best. The problem is that it may be keeping me from having the first meeting. You are unknowingly competing in a auction without the opportunity to rebid. Someone comes along and offers more and you are toast. Hence the no-shows, which has been a problem for me. As with most things, how do you achieve the proper balance?[/QUOTE]I am thinking that if we lose girls by bidding too low and also lose girls by not naming any number maybe we should either A. Not name a number; or B. If we name a number it should be high enough to foreclose (most) competition. What do you think? A lot of girls will show up even if no number is named.

[QUOTE=Golfcart; 1188396]. . . . , it is not "Escorts."

Excuse me, but the present discussion of [I]how to get the girl to the hotel and in bed earlier and how to avoid being outbid[/I] Is best achieved by seeing an internet escort in the first place. So why is this approach even being considered with a civie? It won't work except with a girl in serious distress. We shouldn't want a girl in distress because we are taking advantage and we will be resented. Nothing good will come from that.

Rather, we should find a girl and meet her for coffee under circumstances where moving things to an unplanned dinner is possible. If things go well at coffee move it to dinner. Put something [I]meaningful[/I] In her purse at dinner [I]without saying a word, without looking at her[/I]. Let her make the next move and the clothes will come flying off in appreciation. That is an "arrangement." We allow her to [I]give to someone who is not a taker[/I]. We become important rather than resented.

This involves a little risk, of course, but the reward is much greater.

Be careful, some of you will be playing with fire. Real escorts know the no call, no contact rules. Civies don't. You can't get away from a girl who knows how to find you. [/QUOTE]Golf, this is a very classy approach and when you have time to work it you will, I am sure, wind up with an extremely satisfying relationship. Thanks for explaining it.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1188123]Lit:

Another angle that I have cultivated similar to SB's, are dancers. Not the avg ones but those that seem to have their act somewhat together. Void of chemcials, or at least any hardcore habits, that like to hook-up for private parties outside of the establishment. I know this is not the same thing but it functions as such for me. A little more personal contact than a typical escort (also cheaper) and an ongoing fuck if I want it. The crop of a few that I have cultivated here are early to mid 30's and fine in the specimen and performance dept. Just another angle that seems to be much easier than the legwork of finding the gals like Lit and the gang are doing. [/QUOTE]I'm impressed by this. I love dancers but the four I've taken out have all cost me a huge amount of moola in the VIP before they agreed to meet at a hotel and three of them scared the hell out of me with their drive towards entanglements. One girl wanted a baby (and got one from another customer) , another wanted a father for her two kids and one was 19, gorgeous and hysterical with strong self-destructive urges. I think my approach to them was all wrong as it was borderline romantic. None was in Virginia. I'm not in the clubs much these days and I don't look for take-out when I am.

It sounds like you have a winning strategy for finding and fucking girls who are both cute and fit.

I don't know how all these sb sites work, I only know how the one I'm on works and also the one promoting extra-marital affairs that advertises everywhere these days.

I don't think you'll get anywhere as a geezer trying to bed young honeys just posting your profile and sitting back, waiting for girls to contact you.

I admit I never advertised much on CL in the old days or BP and I'm not skilled at that. If you are good at writing those kinds of ads then probably what I have say doesn't apply to you.

Some sbs seem to troll nationally and internationally. I assume somebody gets to fuck them sometime but the out of geographic range unsolicited emails I've received all appear to me to be mass mailings. The girl either hopes to find a billionaire like the one who married Anna Nicole Smith if she just sends enough emails, or they are schemes to get you to send money with no real prospect of ever meeting the girl. Just my opinion based on a few email exchanges.

The procedure that seems to work for me is this: 1. Search for girls within xx miles of your zip code. 2. Screen for characteristics that matter to you (like age, weight, race, marital status, etc.).3. Screen for recent online activity. All this can be accomplished in a few minutes. Now you have a set of xx girls to work with in the geographic area you want who claim to look like what you want and who have been online recently looking for somebody.

Go through the set and find the girls you like best and contact them by email. Try to figure out what will appeal to them. It's ok to use a generic email but its best to add some words that show you have actually read the girl's profile. Send out a bunch of them at the same time so you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Don't be afraid to follow up if you get no response at first.

Where your profile or "ad" comes in is that when the girls get your email they will look at it. It has to make them at least willing to communicate with you and not turn them off. How you do that is up to you but I've found shorter is better. Girls don't usually like direct talk about sex, body parts, etc. Inmo, at least not at first.

Most girls will ask for a photo in their first response if they have any interest after looking at your profile. I tried to avoid this but I eventually uploaded a couple of pix that I altered to make unrecognizable but which clearly show my age and general body type. The pix are in a private gallery that can only be accessed with a password.

When I give the girl a password I usually ask her a question that challenges her determination to enter into an sb / sd relationship. I find this makes her more likely to respond after looking at the photos.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1188701]I'm impressed by this. I love dancers but the four I've taken out have all cost me a huge amount of moola in the VIP before they agreed to meet at a hotel and three of them scared the hell out of me with their drive towards entanglements. One girl wanted a baby (and got one from another customer) , another wanted a father for her two kids and one was 19, gorgeous and hysterical with strong self-destructive urges. I think my approach to them was all wrong as it was borderline romantic. None was in Virginia. I'm not in the clubs much these days and I don't look for take-out when I am.

It sounds like you have a winning strategy for finding and fucking girls who are both cute and fit. [/QUOTE]"both cute and fit"

And the funny thing is, I am neither. But they must view me as safe and an easy way to accomplish whatever their goal is. Perceived to be CA$H. But a key element that I think is part of it is, I am very nice to them (non-threatening) and also fun to be around. (based on the girls' feedback).

I don't do any VIP room stuff, in fact maybe only twice have I even had a private dance. I simply talk to them, buy them the cheapest drink on the menu, maybe 15 or 18 bucks, and once I hit upon someone that is a decent conversationalist and someone that I would want to see outside of there, I merely work into the convo some questioning about partaking in "private parties". I assume that "they do it" but it doesn't hurt my feelings if they say NO, but it only takes one yes to get your weiner wet. Lets face it, these gals are already selling themselves and all I want is some private time with them. They have needs, both physical and financial, and I can meet one of them for sure, maybe both on a good day. The only issue that I would have with any of these encounters is on a few occassions I have had girls who request meetings a little too often, after the initial one or two encounters. Via text msgs. (Oh I want to see you. How about Friday morning, blah, blah). Trying to keep that contact to a minimum is really the biggest challenge. In fact I have had 3 requests this week to meet today. Rent must due this week, ya think?

I think sb14 makes 9 sbs who have opened their pussies for me since I started targeting sbs late last year. In at least half of these cases, there has been zero discussion of any specific amount of allowance. Yesterday was typical. At the end of the session I put her allowance in her jeans. She didn't even count it.

I try to deflect specific discussions of cash by saying "I don't like to talk about this, I'm sure you'll be happy" or something like that. Again we return to the question of whether these girls think of themselves as escorts. Most of the ones I've run into don't. Just my experience for what it's worth.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1188733]"both cute and fit"

And the funny thing is, I am neither. But they must view me as safe and an easy way to accomplish whatever their goal is. Perceived to be CA$H. But a key element that I think is part of it is, I am very nice to them (non-threatening) and also fun to be around. (based on the girls' feedback).

I don't do any VIP room stuff, in fact maybe only twice have I even had a private dance. I simply talk to them, buy them the cheapest drink on the menu, maybe 15 or 18 bucks, and once I hit upon someone that is a decent conversationalist and someone that I would want to see outside of there, I merely work into the convo some questioning about partaking in "private parties". I assume that "they do it" but it doesn't hurt my feelings if they say NO, but it only takes one yes to get your weiner wet. Lets face it, these gals are already selling themselves and all I want is some private time with them. They have needs, both physical and financial, and I can meet one of them for sure, maybe both on a good day. The only issue that I would have with any of these encounters is on a few occassions I have had girls who request meetings a little too often, after the initial one or two encounters. Via text msgs. (Oh I want to see you. How about Friday morning, blah, blah). Trying to keep that contact to a minimum is really the biggest challenge. In fact I have had 3 requests this week to meet today. Rent must due this week, ya think? [/QUOTE]Three requests to meet this week? Not too shabby. Well done.

Thank you for explaining how you do this. I learn something every day on this website.

A pro would be a lot more direct and focused with a specific quid pro quo; she shows up, sex is had, cash is exchanged, and bam, you're done, and even if you're a regular, each time is still a one-off deal.

A sugardaddy / baby is a looser arrangement more like an easy girlfriend paired with a generous boyfriend; you may have dates and do things together other than sex, but there's still the implicit understanding that she's being so "good" to you mostly because you're being so "good" to her and vice-versa.

A pro is likely making her living that way with multiple clients, whereas a sugarbaby may have a real job or schooling or may be a "rent girl" who's put up in an apartment with all expenses paid but still exclusive to her sugardaddy.

A "sugarship" seems about halfway between an actual relationship and outright prostitution, and some may veer more towards one side or the other, but not quite far enough to call it really just one or the other.

I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers!

Wow Mad. You are very patient. Over a year to close the deal.

You mention you are in your 40's and not a bad looking guy.

I don't have the patience or the time to jack with these gals for that time span. I'm in my early 60's, nothing more than avg looks at best, puffy around the middle. So I'm not impressing anyone in that respect. What that all adds up to is I don't think I am going to whoo them off their feet; so I don't really try that hard. It is a numbers game speaking to a lot of gals, getting a sense of who fits my profile of acceptable candidates and if they do, I merely ask for an outside appt. It is a yeah or nay as far as I am concerned, or maybe a phone number from them to discuss it later, or meet for lunch to see where we can go from there. It is not a case of me going back time after time to ink a deal here. Not that detailed of a transaction at all for me. We either agree to meet and get necked, or we agree that we won't. Ther than possibly a lunch or a call later, in some cases.

One las tthing. Relative to the younger good looking guy vs the older not so hottie. Of the two the older guy is a lot less threatening. There is little chance that these gals are falling for some old geezer, they are merely having a need met and there is little mystery beyond that. Just how it seems to make sense and work for me, anyway.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax; 1189025]I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers! [/QUOTE]

SB13 showed up on schedule for a drink. I had asked her to a hotel but she wanted this first. I'm glad she did. She wore sweats, is about 25 as she claims and has the face of a hound. Much worse than her pix. Big boobs and squashy ass from what I could tell. Even Mr Johnson asked, what the fuck are we doing here? It's a good thing sb14 took care of him the day before because he can get unreasonable if he hasn't had pussy for a few days. She said I was her second sd. I gave her a little sugar for her babysitter as I said I would and told her to get in touch later. It will have to be a true pussy emergency before I see that girl again.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax; 1189025]I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers! [/QUOTE]I like dancers too and you get to inspect some high quality goods very thoroughly before you commit to anything. But I had the same long run up that you describe and I'm not doing dancers at the moment.

This dancer tech is good stuff. Thanks for describing your experiences.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1189146]Wow Mad. You are very patient. Over a year to close the deal.

You mention you are in your 40's and not a bad looking guy.

I don't have the patience or the time to jack with these gals for that time span. I'm in my early 60's, nothing more than avg looks at best, puffy around the middle. So I'm not impressing anyone in that respect. What that all adds up to is I don't think I am going to whoo them off their feet; so I don't really try that hard. It is a numbers game speaking to a lot of gals, getting a sense of who fits my profile of acceptable candidates and if they do, I merely ask for an outside appt. It is a yeah or nay as far as I am concerned, or maybe a phone number from them to discuss it later, or meet for lunch to see where we can go from there. It is not a case of me going back time after time to ink a deal here. Not that detailed of a transaction at all for me. We either agree to meet and get necked, or we agree that we won't. Ther than possibly a lunch or a call later, in some cases.

One las tthing. Relative to the younger good looking guy vs the older not so hottie. Of the two the older guy is a lot less threatening. There is little chance that these gals are falling for some old geezer, they are merely having a need met and there is little mystery beyond that. Just how it seems to make sense and work for me, anyway. [/QUOTE]Vroom, do you ask multiple girls if they will do private parties on one visit to a club? Does management ever warn you off when you do this? When the girls say no, are they offended?

SB15 never responded to the lunch invitation for yesterday she asked me for. I expect she will be back in contact eventually because I think she's a pro or semipro.

SB16 is 27, slim, a health care services provider, she says. She want to meet first in the hotel bar today but knows I have booked a room for us at the hotel. Her voice is intelligent and feminine and she has a nice laugh. Not much to go on but I think Johnson will find her acceptable. I don't have a lot of time so my plan is to spend no more than 15 minutes in the bar.

SB3 asked for a hotel meet for next weekend. I agreed but won't make any arrangements unless she stays in touch throughout next week. What a cock tease. Johnson wants access to her though. Badly.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1188973]A pro would be a lot more direct and focused with a specific quid pro quo; she shows up, sex is had, cash is exchanged, and bam, you're done, and even if you're a regular, each time is still a one-off deal.

A sugardaddy / baby is a looser arrangement more like an easy girlfriend paired with a generous boyfriend; you may have dates and do things together other than sex, but there's still the implicit understanding that she's being so "good" to you mostly because you're being so "good" to her and vice-versa.

A pro is likely making her living that way with multiple clients, whereas a sugarbaby may have a real job or schooling or may be a "rent girl" who's put up in an apartment with all expenses paid but still exclusive to her sugardaddy.

A "sugarship" seems about halfway between an actual relationship and outright prostitution, and some may veer more towards one side or the other, but not quite far enough to call it really just one or the other. [/QUOTE]I think this is about as good a definition as I've seen. The folks that say all sbs are really pros seem to be saying all women who are motivated at least partly by money are pros. That includes gold diggers and women who marry a guy for his money which includes a lot of women. There are many different kinds of sbs. Look at the difference between the kind of sb Golf is looking for and the kind I'm looking for. Look at the dancers Vroom and Max are getting. The sbs Spit and Cool pursue don't sound like escorts to me. Two of my sbs, sb13 and sb8 probably would be escorts if they were better looking, but they would starve as escorts even though they are available to be fucked. SBs are different, like the man says.