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Browsing thru craigslist I think I found a picture of two girls who look more like the two I saw on the trail the other night. I also called the girls up and they said they were located off OBT so I think this might be it.
[url]http://orlando.craigslist.org/ers/294149015.html[/url]
Hey All,
Driving down the Trail this morning at 2am. Until I got to Sand Lake saw nothing to write home about. Then at the Bus Stop at the Best Buy,wearing a light colored dress, dirty blondish hair and black high heels was the best looking girl on the trail in the last 12 years. This was easy a 8-9 looking girl(SW scale 18) I mean knock out. It took everything in my body to shut up the little head as he was saying Dude Spend $$$ for the whole night of fun.
I would have definitely hit the funds. This is one that just a fast time is no good . This one is a beauty.
Just down on the other side of Bee Line area were two that were getting the old LE talk too. Shame as I have not seen any on that side of The Road in about a month since the Motel down there changed names again.
All in All a nice choice selection down by the mall. I just might have to dream a little dream soon.
Trail Rider 1
Mike,
I've seen the two girls you mentioned below. Though they also go by different names. Search for Bree and Paige on CL, those were also the names they used on the streets. Those girls are smoking hot as I got to see first hand as we discussed details in my car. Supposedly Paige just turn 19 for all you horn dogs out there. The two don't seem to be separable as they are often seen together. Bree did most of the talking and they didn't seem to budge on anything less than $. Look for them near the King.
[QUOTE=Mikeinbrazil]Browsing thru craigslist I think I found a picture of two girls who look more like the two I saw on the trail the other night. I also called the girls up and they said they were located off OBT so I think this might be it.
[url]http://orlando.craigslist.org/ers/294149015.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Newbie reporting in. First timer on the board, long time (since two weeks ago) lurker. (Sorry, copied from talk radio.) Anyway, down south in Kowtown, saw a wwsw. (WhiteWheelchairStreetWheelchairer?) She was on OBT and Donegan just wheeling around. Had to doubletake on that. Will be posting later. Saw a one Hot WSW on a phone around 6:00ish on OBT near the car dealership and railroad track near the Turnpike onramp. Will try to post better.
Later fellas!
[QUOTE=Pinoynger]Newbie reporting in. First timer on the board, long time (since two weeks ago) lurker. (Sorry, copied from talk radio.) Anyway, down south in Kowtown, saw a wwsw. (WhiteWheelchairStreetWheelchairer?) She was on OBT and Donegan just wheeling around. Had to doubletake on that. Will be posting later. Saw a one Hot WSW on a phone around 6:00ish on OBT near the car dealership and railroad track near the Turnpike onramp. Will try to post better.
Later fellas![/QUOTE]
LOL...welcome to the board, dude....WWSW, huh...I guess if you pick her up you can park in the handicapped spaces and get you jollies there.... :) Cant say Ive ever seen one actually rolling down a stroll, but hey, theres always a first time....
The rain did not stop SW's saw few by fl mall. I could not see well but they got good bodies. Heading north and around the strip club before Kaley I saw Ruby.
J
If you are looking for these two they are on the other side of 528. Spotted them in front of the BK around 11pm. Very nice, but wanted 100 for a bj!!!! Way too pricey for me plus the blond had that rough pro voice that gave me the idea that it might not be the best service. They go back and forth to the hotel near the mall, so try sitting in the cosco lot for bit and wait to see if they appear.
[url]http://orlando.craigslist.org/ers/294149015.html[/url]
Heading up the trail I spotted a wsw in front of cowboys. Turned around at wendys and was lucky enough to pull behind leo. He sped off and I pulled down the side street to pick her up. Not much negotiation needed. Young, blonde, thin, and only .20 for bj. I kept wondering why she looked familiar. Finally figured it out. She is another one off of the ocso page. Shes a little wacked out, but worth it. Have seen her twice since in the same Kaley to Cowboys area.
Hey Fej Head my goal tonight was to find those girls on the trail. I called their craigslist ad below, but turns out they moved to a new hotel near John Young and Sandlake. I cruised around for nearly two hours but neither of them showed up. In that two our span I did see about 3 good looking wsw. The 1st one I saw was were a white dress, as soon as I turned around she was gone. The second girl I actually picked up, she was pretty pricey so I pretended I didn't have any money on me.
She is about 5'6 or so, pretty skinny and a cute face. Not as hot as the two below, but definately an 8 on the SW scale. Her name is Breeana, I also pulled her digits if anyone wants them. BTW she was pretty pricey, 75 for BJ and 150 fs.
The third girl I saw was about 5'4 or so, a lil bit thicker then Breeana, but definately not fat. I was not able to pick her up though =(
Around 3am:
Candy (picture attached) by fl mall. Two WSW by the resort. Several others can be found.
J
Found her on Craigslist several months ago and could not hook up then, but I have kept in touch via email and I am hoping to see her next week. She claims she is a college girl that does not do this often.
Any info?
[QUOTE=Orlando J]Around 3am:
Candy (picture attached) by fl mall. Two WSW by the resort. Several others can be found.
J[/QUOTE]I've seen Candy reported as a big time upseller and clock watcher with a pimp looking over her shoulder. I was surprised to see her reported as walking the Trail. Has anyone had any experience with her? She looks hot, but I didn't want to get messed up with what I've seen on CL.
WOF
Went out around 10:30 and Lee rd was empty so I headed to the Colonial/Westmoreland area, Nada. Down the trail around noon didn't see much until I got to Holden where I spotted a couple near the mexican restaurant. Pulled in and low and behold, Tanya. Got out of the area, got the usual excellent pipe cleaning for the standard .3 and a nickle tip. Afterwards spotted the older blond that I had picked up last week. Other than that not much out around lunch time.
PHFJ Out!
I will be visiting Orlando from the 25th for a week.
Can someone please help me with the location I should drive to be able to get some SW?
I do not know the terms you are using (trail, mall and village? )
Can you help me with address I can look for?
Thank you and I will report obviously.
BTW – what is the going rate?
[QUOTE=Gagman]I will be visiting Orlando from the 25th for a week.
I do not know the terms you are using (trail, mall and village? )
Can you help me with address I can look for?[/QUOTE]This is one of the problems that occurs when we talk in abbreviations, jargon, and code words.
That kind of talk might make the point that we are experienced locals and know the area, but it doesn't help out very many other mongers. It defeats the purpose of this board.
As Gagman's post points out, we do host 40 million vistors a year in our city, and some of them would like to get laid while on vacation.
If we take a more empathic view of our friends, it would greatly assist them if we become less parochial in our posts and more direct with the information that we provide.
Clearly, you did take the time to RTFF, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. I apologize, Gagman. I had a similar experience when I visited Philadelphia and had to read back through 15 months of posts before someone actually said the name of the street where there was action, instead of the referring to it by the local shorthand.
So here is some information:
"The Trail," "OBT," "South OBT," 'SOBT," all refer to the major road: South Orange Blossom Trail. Other names for it include "441" and "17-92," which are highway numbers.
Probably 95% of all streetwalking activity occurs up and down this road.
"The Mall" refers to the Florida Mall, which is located just south and east of the intersection of Sand Lake Road and South Orange Blossom Trail.
You can Mapquest or Google "1500 Sand Lake Road" to see where the mall is, and then look at the north-south road running just to the west to see South Orange Blossom Trail.
Over the years much of the action, and especially the more attractive girls, have migrated to a stretch of South Orange Blossom Trail that runs from Sand Lake Road south to its junction with the Florida Turnpike.
Certainly, you can sometimes find action a little south of there, and almost always north of there. You can go to the north up South Orange Blossom Trail for several miles, as far as perhaps Colonial Drive (aka State Road 50) and find action. Some spots will have more than others.
"The Village" refers to a place called Tuscany Village, (formerly The Executive), which is one of those hotspots. It is near Holden Avenue, several miles north of Sand Lake Road and the Florida Mall.
In general, as you move north, you are heading more towards the inner city and a progressively lower quality of provider. As always, there can be exceptions.
Also, there are spots that tend to have more transvetites. These would be near 34th St. and Nashville (A small street one block west of SOBT), or up closer to Colonial Dr., near a huge gay entertainment complex known as the Parliament House. I recommend that you definitely avoid those areas.
I defer to others to help you with pricing.
I hope this helps.
DB
P.S. I am 100% certain that I did not divulge any information that LEO doesn't already know.
I hate to be rude but I waited for someone to say RTFF. Not only I posted a report in this thread but I made it easy and created a thread.
The thread says:
[b]Frequently Asked Questions - Read first [/b]
[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=5149[/url]
I respect DB though I might disagree with some of his points of views.
On another note,
There are a lot of us who would help but you have to do your part RTFF and contribute to the forum.
J
OJ,
Yes, we do respect each other.
I must add, however, the information that I detailed is not contained in the FAQ thread.
You posted a decent map (if a bit large east to west), but it is lacking the names of the key streets: "Orange Blossom Trail" and "Sand Lake Road." Moreover, the signs that say "441" are covered up and cannot be read.
I can feel for a newbie or out-of-towner trying to make sense of our city. I also get confused trying to figure out what people are saying.
I fact, I had to PM a guy to learn that what he cryptically referred to as the "Italian Resort" meant the Tuscany Village.
DB
The first round nothing but few SW’s none of them is my type. Second round I spot this tall beautiful young girl "Dana" walking with a petite spinner. The tall young girl "Dana" walks towards me though I wanted to pick the petite one. Any way, I did not want to talk through the window so I offered her a ride. In my ride, I could see her beautiful face clearly. She has blue eyes, blonde hair, southern accent, young: I'd say early 20's. She offered ".8 f/s she said that's not her normal" which was fine but I was interested in her friend. I asked "will she hook me with her friend?" she did not want to. I asked for Dana's digits so I can offer them to my fellows. She gave me her digits.
I looked for her friend but could not find her. She was a pretty spinner. She looks like attached picture.
By fl mall:
I saw Sunset or as she calls herself Redd. I saw Jojo. Also, I saw Candy. By the way, when I say I saw that definitely does not mean I am recommending them.
[QUOTE=Worldsoffun]I've seen Candy reported as a big time upseller and clock watcher with a pimp looking over her shoulder. I was surprised to see her reported as walking the Trail. Has anyone had any experience with her? She looks hot, but I didn't want to get messed up with what I've seen on CL.
WOF[/QUOTE]
I am not arguing with DB at all but let me elaborate. When I said I do not want to be rude I meant it for the newbie. As I said before there is an unwritten agreement not to repeat ourselves. Newbies have to RTFF and contribute to the forum. I have posted a report few months ago with hot spots.
I know the picture is small because it has different far distanced spots. I have also included a link to click on [url=http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=sand+lake+rd+%26+orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl&daddr=kaley+%26+orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl+to:holden+%26+orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl+to:Gore+st+%26+Orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl+to:colonial+%26+Orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl+to:Orange+blossom+trl+%26+Michigan+St,+orlando,+fl+to:americana+%26+s+orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl+to:w+oak+ridge+rd+%26+s+orange+blossom+trl,+orlando,+fl&sll=28.501629,-81.398235&sspn=0.112086,0.159645&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=28.519835,-81.384315&spn=0.112067,0.159645&om=1] Click me OBT :) [/url]
because the picture seemed small. In the link you can zoom in and out.
Finally DB your report is valuable it would get buried after time. I would like if you may add these thoughts and more in the thread
[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=5149[/url]
It would keep it on the front.
J
[QUOTE=Dodger Bulldog]OJ,
Yes, we do respect each other.
[/QUOTE]
Ive been here for the past week in and out of one of the many conventions here.. anyways my last nite in Orlando and did the trail good quality of girls but a bit too out in the open everytime i approached a girl there was a county sheriff police then when I thaugh all was clear I saw a LSW a very fine one I might add I did the loop and called her over and waited at the parking lot where she was standing I dont know if I did right or not but there 2 vans running at first I said nah I cant be then as I made my U turn I flashed my high beams to see who was in there and to my surprised it was full of people .. ( Hint + Cops ) so all i did was take off like a rocket and not looked back .. but when I got there at 5pm I spotted a WSW along a BSW I will give them an 8 but then when I was leaving I spotted them by the Wachovia bank one on one side the other on the other side and behind the blonde a Van I shut down my vehicle and waited and then the BSW got on the phone and looked at me .. then I saw how the blonde ( WSW ) was being followed by 3 vans... so fellows be on the look out.. and be safe after all that I left and called it a night..
[QUOTE=pajero1]Hint + Cops[/QUOTE]I don't know but I've been told that there is an every-other-Thursday-night detail which involves LEO sending out the decoys. You would be better served to just stay home and watch "My Name Is Earl."
Actually, I believe that I read this in the newspaper. So I am not giving away any info. Beary's own spokesman is the one who gave it away.
If this is true, that would mean that tomorrow night should be much safer.
DB
LEonardo was having fun at least 4 spots with a lot of marked cars. A girl dressed to attract was questioned. The poor girl was surrounded by 3 cars in a gas station before Sandlake if you are driving from 50.
FL mall:
Arbys smelled porky with a lot of marked cars. Few guys were questioned.
A girl looked like Summer (picture attached) by the car dealer. The girl , Summer, was questioned. Of course the usual Jojo and Sunset hanging out and using the radio. A girl who looked like Jasmine or Leilani (CL name) attached picture. A good looking girl which might be Marie (picture attached) hanging around.
Under reported areas:
I checked under reported areas as I-dr, Sandlake and Universal. There was nothing.
I heard from a girl Thursday's night is ladies night in K club.
"...I heard from a girl Thursday's night is ladies night in K club."
Does any one suggest a hot Blonde, who has the cheerleader/gymnast/dancer look?
Thanks to all that respond.
I had to drop someone off at the airport at 7:00 AM this morning so I thought I'd check out the action on OBT because I've seen so many reports of success in the morning mongering.
I cruised it from the Beachline up to I-4 twice and did not see one opportunity. I also didn't see any unusual Leo activity that would have scared off the walkers. I was very disappointed. I guess I should stick to the evenings unless someone has a suggestion. Do they all take Friday mornings off? Let me know!
WOF
[QUOTE=Orlando J]LEonardo was having fun at least 4 spots with a lot of marked cars. A girl dressed to attract was questioned. The poor girl was surrounded by 3 cars in a gas station before Sandlake if you are driving from 50.
FL mall:
Arbys smelled porky with a lot of marked cars. Few guys were questioned.
A girl looked like Summer (picture attached) by the car dealer. The girl , Summer, was questioned. Of course the usual Jojo and Sunset hanging out and using the radio. A girl who looked like Jasmine or Leilani (CL name) attached picture. A good looking girl which might be Marie (picture attached) hanging around.
Under reported areas:
I checked under reported areas as I-dr, Sandlake and Universal. There was nothing.
I heard from a girl Thursday's night is ladies night in K club.[/QUOTE]
the one you have labeled as Leilana has actually been busted by fat boy's henchmen
PHFJ Out!
I found a picture that looks like the unknown WSW I saw by the mall.
Here is the corresponding portion out of my report:
Fl mall unknown WSW talking on the phone all the time. She talked to someone through the window. I made a round and came back to find her still there. A guy parked in front of her but she ignored him which looked strange. The guy had Virgina #'s and he might have been her guard.
[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=512618&postcount=292[/url]
J
The pic of "jada1" is of a chick who posts on Craigslist all the time in Atlanta. I'm not sure if she gets down to Orlando too, but I'm sure it's the same one from Atlanta. I don't think her name in atlanta is "Jada".
FYI here is her CL ad in Orlando:
[url]http://orlando.craigslist.org/ers/300050542.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Peter Johnson]The pic of "jada1" is of a chick who posts on Craigslist all the time in Atlanta. I'm not sure if she gets down to Orlando too, but I'm sure it's the same one from Atlanta. I don't think her name in atlanta is "Jada".[/QUOTE]
If thats the best GA has to offer count me out! I have seen better sw's on obt than that cl shit.
The snow bird thing is way out of control down there now.You yanks are seeing beauty through the eyes of a blind man.
I will be there this weekend and get things up and running like it should be.
B.B...
[QUOTE=Dzinr Orlando]First of all that was not my post on CL, and that's not the picture of the girl that ripped me off. There's more than one rip-off artist out there so guy's be very careful.
Now for my report. Of course hind sight is 20/20, and I made some very dumb mistakes, but I'm posting this so you will be more careful, especially if you come across this woman. I picked her up at the citco on OBT last Wednesday. She said her name was Lisa and FS would be .8. I asked if she had a place and she said no. It just so happened that my son was out of town so I suggested we go to my place since I didn't live very far away.
We stopped pick-up a bottle of wine and I paid with my ATM card. I didn't realize she must have been looking over my shoulded when I entered my PIN. Stupid I know! We went to my apt. (gated with a guarded so all seem safe). We had a couple glasses of wine, she offered to stay all night and went to the bathroom to take a shower. She was in there a long time and when she came out I realized she had been doing crack. I told her I didn't want that in my house and she assured me that was all she had. She got us another glass of wine, which I believe she druged with my own sleeping pills from my medicine cabinet. We talked a while and she offered a message, during which I fell asleep (actually I passed out).
I awoke the next day and she was gone. She stole my car, my credit cards, and my ID. I checked my bank account online to find she had cleaned it out. There was a string of ATM withdrawls at 1.0 each, totalling about 3,000.
Yesterday, I was on my way home from work at about 5:30 and I saw her walking down OBT with another girl. She's still out there and she hasn't changed her appearence at all. She is white, appox 5'6 - 5'7, skinny about 110 pounds, her hair is brown with a redish tint. Both times I saw her she had it tied up in a bun on top her head. She looks a lot like the picture Orlando J posted in his report yesterday (newell,dawn).
As you might have gathered from the events described, I didn't even get laid, not even a BJ. In fact I never saw her without her bra and panties on. She was not into the sex, just wanted to rip me off and she did big time.
She has definitely turned me off of all SW's and I strongly recommend everyone be carefull out there and if you happen upon Lisa kick her ass out immeadiately. She's a crack ho and a thief.[/QUOTE]
I have seen and heard of the altering your beverage while they tell you to take a shower.Never,ever take a shower without them and never give the skanks access to any perscription druggs in your place or in your suitcase.
Never leave the gals alone for a minute anywhere you can not watch what they are up too.
I heard of a guy 2 months ago who lost his life to a street gal adding to much sleeping shit to his drink and he never recovered.
I know it's hard but forget about it, figure it as time spent and never do that drinking thing with them again.You were right the first time about smoking drugs,Get out and stay out.
B.B...
I agree it's best not to take chances with SW's. Most of these girls are out to get whatever money they can and don't care who or how they scam to get it.
Thats why when you fight with a rat you get down on all four's,and look the bastard in the eye's.
Never trust the rats you pick up.
B.B...
March 26 I decided to take a trip up to Orlando to hang with an old friend. So around 1:30 I come off Sand Lake/ Obt and run into I think her name was Liz. Kind of boring and mechanical Blond 5'7" Tat on back. Red shirt, jean skirt. Right at the Toys R Us store. After getting in we proceeded back to her hotel room. Cbj/ fs. (2 Jacksons)
Went to my buddies house enjoyed a little 420 then decided to cruise again and ran across a Blonde 5'5" was very into what she was doing. offered Hand/cbj/fs for (2 jacksons) Tank top, white skirt. Lived in Tuscan Village (her name is REGINA)
in all i seen 4 cute BSW/ 0 HSW / 3 WSW / 6-7 Chicken heads. Also see a BSW'n Midget looking girl. There was one girl with a MAFIA hat on that just sat and sat for an hour no one picked her up then the next time by I see her hitchhiking and some black guy grabs her.
Overall a great exp. Reminds of the the mongering days in San Diego :-)
[QUOTE=Spinner John]For those of you who think the trail is dead, go out starting just prior to noon, till about 1pm. At noon or so, both the mall and the villiage open the floodgates. Here are some picts of a sample.
Be Safe!
Spinner John[/QUOTE]I agree, I went early on the 26th and there was a lot out. the girl in getting in the car pic was by the office max store today. And the Not Bad I see her out also. Overall there was a nice selection out. the farther north I got the worse they got.
Went down to the mall on OBT and looked like a sting so took off.
At first ~8pm nothing Nada. In my third round; I saw a young WSW brunette that I have not seen before by fl mall. My hoe-dar detected her signals but she was not looking around. She is kind of slim with curly dark brown hair 5'6" weighs 120LB. She seemed sort of new or it did not make too much of a difference for her to hook up! Someone picked her by Park Inn. If you read this let us know. She was the only 1 by FL mall.
I headed to under reported areas by I-dr, Sandlake...etc. There used to be few sight seeings. Nothing at all.
Back to the major sight seeings:
I was not expecting to see anything after few hours of driving around. But I saw another young cute brunette busy with her phone by McD.
Driving north, I saw a full figured young blonde by Oakridge. I made a u-turn but someone picked her and dropped her. It seems she had a high priced menu. At that time I got a call from a friend and that ended the sight seeing. All the I decided to meet her instead of meeting someone new.
J
I had a firm date with a regular but I had 2 hrs to kill. I drove down Lee Rd. only 1 WSW kind of thick ,blond hair med to short, about a 4 on sw scale. kept on driving, headed down the trail swung by the Melody, NADA, went down nashville 1 WSW very hard face.
Headed down to the Tuscany no-tel and nothing and then a cute blond spinner emerges from a room,we exchange pleasantries and then she invites me to her boudoir. Turns out she is a hot little # from C/L named Amber, the one with the pigtails,she shows me her C/L ad where she likes 200 Roses.
I tell her I only want a BJ and she says $60, knowing that I had my backup piece I offered 40, " I never go below 50" she says and starts rubbing "OL Buford" I say "I'll catch you someother time" and she says Ok, I get to the door and she says "what the hell you're already here" so she breaks out a rubber and I say NAaaaaaa, uncovered. She says "I never" and then starts sucking.
Actually a pretty good BBBJCIMWS, nice ball stroking and a good job working the head and she is very foxy with a nice shaved cooze, well worth the $40, but $200 roses not in a million years, thats for the C/L suckers. She claims she's not on the pipe," I like pills X...X, somehow she thinks that moves her up the ladder above the crackheads in the addiction higherarchy...oh well.
Anyway a good time was had by ME-----VS
Is this Amber? I wish I can be smooth like you. I confess I can not do what you did because I end up with bad services. Though I am very polite in asking!
J
[QUOTE=VerySlowly]I had a firm date with a regular but I had 2 hrs to kill. I drove down Lee Rd. only 1 WSW kind of thick ,blond hair med to short, about a 4 on sw scale. kept on driving, headed down the trail swung by the Melody, NADA, went down nashville 1 WSW very hard face.
Headed down to the Tuscany no-tel and nothing and then a cute blond spinner emerges from a room,we exchange pleasantries and then she invites me to her boudoir. Turns out she is a hot little # from C/L named Amber, the one with the pigtails,she shows me her C/L ad where she likes 200 Roses.
I tell her I only want a BJ and she says $60, knowing that I had my backup piece I offered 40, " I never go below 50" she says and starts rubbing "OL Buford" I say "I'll catch you someother time" and she says Ok, I get to the door and she says "what the hell you're already here" so she breaks out a rubber and I say NAaaaaaa, uncovered. She says "I never" and then starts sucking.
Actually a pretty good BBBJCIMWS, nice ball stroking and a good job working the head and she is very foxy with a nice shaved cooze, well worth the $40, but $200 roses not in a million years, thats for the C/L suckers. She claims she's not on the pipe," I like pills X...X, somehow she thinks that moves her up the ladder above the crackheads in the addiction higherarchy...oh well.
Anyway a good time was had by ME-----VS[/QUOTE]
Yes O--J that is Amber.
The whole deal with negotiation is that you have to be prepared to walk away, I was because I had a backup to go to. If I didn't she would have smelled it (not Buford)L.O.L. and not cut her price, but since I started to leave she agreed to 40 and since she knew I would leave again, she did BBBJ and she kept on going after I came which is the way it should be.
As to bad service if you don't play their way, I've found that The service is the same no matter what you pay, I've had great for $20 and lousy for $200 it just depends on the girl most don't have techniques based on the price, they do it the way they do it, some can be coached some not.
A good example was Hairballs Christina, a first class provider, super hot experience, very nice looking girl, offered BBBJ, covered full service , GFE all for $40.
If I had paid Amber $200 for a BJ and a quick full service it would have been the same BJ, she does it the way she does it.
As always, there is the exception to every rule, but always remember that their goal is to get you OFF and OUT of there ASAP so they can hit the pipe again ASAP.--VS