Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4771274]Listen to what is being touted, contact tracing the way they are speaking of is nothing short of the type of Big Brother spying movies have been made about. They want to use your cell phones or other technology to know where you have been and possibly even a vaccine card you have to carry around with you? This country was founded on individual freedom and responsibility not the land of the oppressed. These protesters are exercising their constitutional rights to protest ridiculous rules. It has been stated that many surgeries that can help people live longer and healthier have been shut down, so how many have died as a result? These morons have made people suffering serious diseases and injuries from going to an ER out of fear. We must stop the fear-mongering and get on with knowledge and live life.[/QUOTE]This is why all protestors should be denied healthcare coverage if they get sick from COVID. You don't get to have two sets of rules. You either follow the rules and guidelines of medical EXPERTS and you get healthcare if you get sick, or you flaunt the rules and are DENIED treatment as punishment for your ignorance and "Constitutional rights" to endanger the public with stupidity.

I've had this same attitude towards Anti-Vaxxers for many years. If you're a parent who is stupid enough to believe anti-vaxx nonsense, then you and your child should be DENIED healthcare if your kid gets a horrible communicable disease. Watch your kid die painfully from meningitis and then come tell me about the virtues of anti-vaxxing bullshit.

Yesterday Trump's former FDA commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, told CBS' "Face the Nation" that the new normal is 30,000 new cases of COVID-19 DAILY and 1,000 deaths per day. And that will continue throughout the summer. He expects to get to 100,000 deaths in June. Celebrating the Fourth of July by noting that more Americans have been killed by COVID-19 than in all of World War I (116,708) would be no fun at all. White House coronavirus coordinator Deborah Birx told "Fox News Sunday" yesterday that she is sticking with the initial estimate of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths in total, which is not that different from Gottlieb's prediction if it lasts all year.

To make matters worse, while the number of deaths in New York still leads the pack by a mile, as states in the South reopen, more of the deaths will be coming from Southern states going forward.

Given the incubation period of about 2 weeks, those deaths won't be showing up this week, but by Memorial Day we will likely be seeing plenty of them.

[URL]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/05/03/gottlieb_says_coronavirus_mitigation_didnt_work_as_well_as_we_expected_in_reducing_cases.html[/URL]

The Trump administration is projecting that the United States could see up to 3,000 deaths per day from the coronavirus by June 1, a person familiar with internal documents confirmed to The Hill on Monday.

Data and modeling from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that the federal government is expecting the number of cases and deaths associated with the pandemic to continue mounting, even as President Trump and other officials push for states to lift restrictions meant to slow the spread of the virus in favor of reopening businesses.

The New York Times, which was the first to report on the projections,*posted the documents, which show the CDC and Federal Emergency Management Agency forecast a steady increase in the number of new cases per day. *.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html[/URL]#link-7 b42 d0 f5.

[QUOTE=TMeister;4771486]This is why all protestors should be denied healthcare coverage if they get sick from COVID. You don't get to have two sets of rules. You either follow the rules and guidelines of medical EXPERTS and you get healthcare if you get sick, or you flaunt the rules and are DENIED treatment as punishment for your ignorance and "Constitutional rights" to endanger the public with stupidity.

I've had this same attitude towards Anti-Vaxxers for many years. If you're a parent who is stupid enough to believe anti-vaxx nonsense, then you and your child should be DENIED healthcare if your kid gets a horrible communicable disease. Watch your kid die painfully from meningitis and then come tell me about the virtues of anti-vaxxing bullshit.[/QUOTE]And by that logic, if you go to a prostitute and catch something you should not be allowed to go to the dr. You knew the risk! And if you have a car wreck and you were speeding or ran a red light or had 1 beer they shod throw your body in a ditch and leave you. You knew the risk.

Seriously, that is the kind of thought that scares me. Pure fucking stupidity. Just as fucking stupid as the parents who won't vaccinate their kids. If those regards want to go out, let em. I will voluntarily stay home and healthy not at the barrel of the government's gun.

And an atlanta councilman was just on the tv talking about standing up against the people leaving their house and showing them he is serious. . that is the kind of authoritarian government you want?

But next month you will be crying that the same government shut down your favorite parlor.

In my opinion. To the people complaining about the protesters asking for their rights and the ones saying that the government should enforce the lock down orders by any means necessary. I truly believe that a very large portion of the population would willingly cram themselves into cattle cars if the government said they were being relocated to a COVID prevention camp.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4771477]Current data shows 14 healthy Georgians under the age of sixty have succumbed to the China Virus. 0.00015555% of all Georgians under the age of 60! I can smell the death from my front porch. If you're healthy and under the age of sixty hide inside your fucking houses or you will die[/QUOTE]I'm not going to argue your position, as your mind is clearly closed on the subject, but I have to appeal to your tendency to improve your facts by adding needless decimal places. If the numbers you used above are correct, then the population of Georgia is 9,000,321. 44 people. Its not. Its not even 9,000,321. If you are using a rounded off or estimated number in a fraction you cannot run it out 9 decimal places without displaying a bullshit flag along with the rest of your post.

[QUOTE=Worf359;4771976]In my opinion. To the people complaining about the protesters asking for their rights and the ones saying that the government should enforce the lock down orders by any means necessary. I truly believe that a very large portion of the population would willingly cram themselves into cattle cars if the government said they were being relocated to a COVID prevention camp.[/QUOTE]That does sum it up very well. We busted out of tyranny 240 years ago, why climb back into it. Because we are afraid? Those who wish to stay cowering behind the safety of their homes are free to do so. The rest of America should take the path the Swedes did and go on about our lives. If I get sick, I get sick. I have only taken 1 flu shot in 30 years and that was out of logic since I was getting on an airplane twice a week for 4 months during the flu season. I have not had the flu in over 30 years.

The biggest difference between the two main factions in America is that one wants believe they should not (whatever) and therefore no else should either. The other side believes, if you don't want to, then fine, but do not prevent me from doing so.

[QUOTE=TMeister;4771486]I've had this same attitude towards Anti-Vaxxers for many years. If you're a parent who is stupid enough to believe anti-vaxx nonsense, then you and your child should be DENIED healthcare if your kid gets a horrible communicable disease.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=AcWorthDude;4771935]Seriously, that is the kind of thought that scares me. Pure fucking stupidity. Just as fucking stupid as the parents who won't vaccinate their kids.[/QUOTE]At least you two found something to which you both agree.

Is Covid-19 the most respected Virus? I see hoes on IG that do BBFS wearing face mask. Its so weird to me.

"Scientists have identified a new strain of the coronavirus that has become dominant worldwide and appears to be more contagious than the versions that spread in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic," the Los Angeles Times reports.

"The new strain appeared in February in Europe, migrated quickly to the East Coast of the United States and has been the dominant strain across the world since mid-March. ".

"In addition to spreading faster, it may make people vulnerable to a second infection after a first about with the disease. ".

[URL]https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1[/URL]

[URL]https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original[/URL]

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4772259]I'm not going to argue your position, as your mind is clearly closed on the subject, but I have to appeal to your tendency to improve your facts by adding needless decimal places. If the numbers you used above are correct, then the population of Georgia is 9,000,321. 44 people. Its not. Its not even 9,000,321. If you are using a rounded off or estimated number in a fraction you cannot run it out 9 decimal places without displaying a bullshit flag along with the rest of your post.[/QUOTE]Not a position nor is my mind open or closed. Facts. Hard data. Population of Ga is over 10 m w /90% of that being under age of 60. I didn't attempt to improve the facts by adding needless decimal places. My calculator did the figures, I copied. Not 44, but 14 Georgians under age of 60, listed as healthy have succumbed to China Virus. All facts. All data provided by Ga DHS. You're the bullshit flag. Upset that data doesn't support your level of fear. Stay inside or you'll die. That make you feel better?

The latest numbers, by state: [URL]https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/index.html[/URL].

[QUOTE=AcWorthDude;4771935]And by that logic, if you go to a prostitute and catch something you should not be allowed to go to the dr. You knew the risk! And if you have a car wreck and you were speeding or ran a red light or had 1 beer they shod throw your body in a ditch and leave you. You knew the risk.

Seriously, that is the kind of thought that scares me. Pure fucking stupidity. Just as fucking stupid as the parents who won't vaccinate their kids. If those regards want to go out, let em. I will voluntarily stay home and healthy not at the barrel of the government's gun.[/QUOTE]The big difference between me getting an STD or injured in a car wreck is that it is me and me ONLY that has to suffer. It's morons like you and the protesters and anti-vaxxers that not only endanger yourselves but the general public with your ignorance and denial of basic medical facts. You will be running around spreading disease just like the uneducated peasants did during the Black Death. 99% of you idiots don't work in hospitals and ain't seeing the unbridled carnage this virus is causing, so it's easy to strap on a flak jacket and your AR-15 and act like your standing up to the "gubamint" but you're just looking like clueless anti-Americans to the rest of us, which is the 99% majority.

[QUOTE=TMeister;4772887]The big difference between me getting an STD or injured in a car wreck is that it is me and me ONLY that has to suffer. It's morons like you and the protesters and anti-vaxxers that not only endanger yourselves but the general public with your ignorance and denial of basic medical facts. You will be running around spreading disease just like the uneducated peasants did during the Black Death. 99% of you idiots don't work in hospitals and ain't seeing the unbridled carnage this virus is causing, so it's easy to strap on a flak jacket and your AR-15 and act like your standing up to the "gubamint" but you're just looking like clueless anti-Americans to the rest of us, which is the 99% majority.[/QUOTE]1. Re-read my post. As I said, I am staying safe at home.

2. It's not 99%. You made that # up.

3. The general population catching it are the ones going out not those staying home. So they made their choice.

4. I don't own an ar-15 or flak jacket.

5. When someone goes around banging hookers raw they spread disease, to or from the ones they are doing / who chose to participate in raw. (Kind of like going out in public now) but they will run to an already overcrowded medical system looking for help. Oh, and Aids is 100%death sentanceso much more risky.

6. They are really more of medical guesses or theories or hypothesis. Not facts. So much is still unknown.

Your whole rebuttal was stereotypes and or made up numbers.

We can't have tyranny because of your fear. If you are worried. Stay home. I am.

[QUOTE=AcWorthDude;4773228]1. Re-read my post. As I said, I am staying safe at home.

2. It's not 99%. You made that # up.

3. The general population catching it are the ones going out not those staying home. So they made their choice.

4. I don't own an ar-15 or flak jacket.

5. When someone goes around banging hookers raw they spread disease, to or from the ones they are doing / who chose to participate in raw. (Kind of like going out in public now) but they will run to an already overcrowded medical system looking for help. Oh, and Aids is 100%death sentanceso much more risky.

6. They are really more of medical guesses or theories or hypothesis. Not facts. So much is still unknown.

Your whole rebuttal was stereotypes and or made up numbers.

We can't have tyranny because of your fear. If you are worried. Stay home. I am.[/QUOTE]I agree with a lot of what you said except #5. AIDS is no longer an automatic death sentence. Magic Johnson, for example, got HIV around 1991 or 1992 and is still here, almost 30 years later. HIV / AIDS is under much better control now.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4772639]Not a position nor is my mind open or closed. Facts. Hard data. Population of Ga is over 10 m w /90% of that being under age of 60. I didn't attempt to improve the facts by adding needless decimal places. My calculator did the figures, I copied. Not 44, but 14 Georgians under age of 60, listed as healthy have succumbed to China Virus. All facts. All data provided by Ga DHS. You're the bullshit flag. Upset that data doesn't support your level of fear. Stay inside or you'll die. That make you feel better?[/QUOTE]Maybe you failed to notice that that I didn't attack your position, but merely observed that I thought it had little chance of ever evolving from where it is now. Is that not a fact?

My problem was, and is, with your ignorance of basic math. It doesn't matter what the calculator says if the data that you enter in to it is faulty. You simply cannot round off the population of Georgia to the nearest million or so and provide a statistic based on it with that level of accuracy. GIGO - Garbage In; Garbage Out.

[QUOTE=Ronny770;4772455]Is Covid-19 the most respected Virus? I see hoes on IG that do BBFS wearing face mask. Its so weird to me.[/QUOTE]Viruses and other diseases are not respected; they're causes for concern, study and eventual treatment / cures. Your comment suggests fear. Some will fear anything beyond their normal realm and cause panic because they lack logic, common sense and fail to keep up with current events. Those with common sense, self-discipline and education will look at a serious issue calmly, study the fuck out of it, then find a way to mitigate it.

If hoes / hoars and other providers are now wearing face masks (not mask as you said), then it's a good thing. They're possibly preventing their oral spew from "Covid-19-ing" their customers. More likely, they're trying to protect themselves. Can't remember a single time in 40 years of sport fucking where a working girl considered my concerns / feelings ahead of hers.

Reasonable caution in any situation, especially now, is a positive thing. Now only if those "newly cautious" hoes sporting masks would spend more time sanitizing their business areas, for which we'd all be much happier. Nobody likes a rotting crotch.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4773281]I agree with a lot of what you said except #5. AIDS is no longer an automatic death sentence. Magic Johnson, for example, got HIV around 1991 or 1992 and is still here, almost 30 years later. HIV / AIDS is under much better control now.[/QUOTE]Ahhh. I knew someone would reference him.

You are right. But Not many have the money to spend that he has.

Still I stand by my point. Much more serious, is also a more serious issue for the dr and health care communityand general pop. I would rather catch c19 over aids.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4773395]Maybe you failed to notice that that I didn't attack your position, but merely observed that I thought it had little chance of ever evolving from where it is now. Is that not a fact?

My problem was, and is, with your ignorance of basic math. It doesn't matter what the calculator says if the data that you enter in to it is faulty. You simply cannot round off the population of Georgia to the nearest million or so and provide a statistic based on it with that level of accuracy. GIGO - Garbage In; Garbage Out.[/QUOTE]My numbers are sound and I'm not ignorant of basic math.

You're triggered by facts and by your own age. You're what, 70 years old? Lets call it between 68-72. Puts you in a 90%+ risk group. If you have serious pre-existing conditions, you're in the 95-98% of all who've contracted China virus and suffered bad outcomes. Those under 60 and healthy don't need to cater to a risk group consisting of such a small percent of the whole

Do what you want, but if a man of your age continues to partake in this hobby, you're rolling the China Virus dice. And that's not just for the next few weeks or months, that's for years to come.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4774019]My numbers are sound and I'm not ignorant of basic math.

You're triggered by facts and by your own age. You're what, 70 years old? Lets call it between 68-72. Puts you in a 90%+ risk group. If you have serious pre-existing conditions, you're in the 95-98% of all who've contracted China virus and suffered bad outcomes. Those under 60 and healthy don't need to cater to a risk group consisting of such a small percent of the whole

Do what you want, but if a man of your age continues to partake in this hobby, you're rolling the China Virus dice. And that's not just for the next few weeks or months, that's for years to come.[/QUOTE]Hey, thanks to all for the info, The back and forth and all the OPINIONS are interesting and I guess even with the figures, its still guess work. Soo, in each and all's opinions, at the 85-90% group, if in excellent health, what is the % that one will not survive this world in the coming year and if or not continuing see a few ladies, what % chance of catching this fucking virus?? And what if wearing a mask and not going out anymore than necessary, helps keep from catching it?

Yes and I wish all wet dreams abound! PW.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4774019]My numbers are sound and I'm not ignorant of basic math.[/QUOTE]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.

[QUOTE=PWhipped;4774108]Hey, thanks to all for the info, The back and forth and all the OPINIONS are interesting and I guess even with the figures, its still guess work. Soo, in each and all's opinions, at the 85-90% group, if in excellent health, what is the % that one will not survive this world in the coming year and if or not continuing see a few ladies, what % chance of catching this fucking virus?? And what if wearing a mask and not going out anymore than necessary, helps keep from catching it?

Yes and I wish all wet dreams abound! PW.[/QUOTE]The mask does not prevent you from catching it, or even lower the chance. The mask is to prevent you from spreading it. There are too many vectors for this virus, and this virus is very opportunistic. So catching it is pretty easy. Depending on your body immune system is the determining factor. If you have a normal immune response, probably better than 95% you will survive with just minor symptoms. If your immune system is either compromised, or over reactive then all bets are off. What is still being ignored, is that even if you recover, there will be damage to your organs (lungs, kidneys, heart). So what is long term prospect? That is something that medical science will start looking at after we are past this beginning phase.

[QUOTE=PWhipped;4774108] Soo, in each and all's opinions, at the 85-90% group, if in excellent health, what is the % that one will not survive this world in the coming year and if or not continuing see a few ladies, what % chance of catching this fucking virus?? And what if wearing a mask and not going out anymore than necessary, helps keep from catching it?[/QUOTE]Nobody knows. And therein lies the problem. It has been shown that this is a highly contagious disease and that maintaining public health requires public participation. To what end, one again, no-one knows. Keeping it under control until a a vaccine is developed seems to be the best strategy at the moment, but for the third time, no-one knows for sure.

Killing off all the old people is another way to go, but I personally think we can do better. Its called "public health" for a reason.

Wearing a mask and not going out more than possible is NOT guaranteed to keep you safe, but it IS guaranteed to keep you, and everyone else, safer.

No matter how many decimal places they use, no-one can give you exact percentages on anything relating to this disease. Its simply too soon. We can, however, separate the good ideas from the bad ideas and that is the problem the world is facing. When do they overlap? When does the benefit of reopening society become the problem of causing a new wave of disease? And when does the economic hardship of closing society outweigh the increase in deaths that will be caused if you open things up?

If you know ahead of that decision, the answer is easy. But as none of us has that level of clairvoyance, we have to make the best educated guesses that we can.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.[/QUOTE]Damn good response. I also like to look at whole numbers, if possible, not percentages drawn out to the nth degree. That, and a shitload of common sense have always served me well.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.[/QUOTE]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long. They call it a Flu Vaccine but it really isn't vaccine in the same sense as the polio or measles vaccines. The flu is only for a certain strain that year and is far from 100% effective and I do not intend to get stuck every year on a vaccine that may or may not prevent it. The shelter in place was to flatten the curve so as to not overwhelm the health care industry and we have done that! Mission accomplished. Let's get back on with life and those who wish to hide in their homes are free to do so.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775155]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long.[/QUOTE]Both of these statements are true. It will take time to develop a vaccine and society must and will reopen before one is developed. The important consideration, however, is that this virus is not just another flu. It is far more contagious and continues to spread despite the rather draconian measures that we have taken to date.

Giving up now, however, is not the answer. While scientists are working on a vaccine based solution, it is incumbent on the rest of us to buy them time. The problem is to balance personal and economic freedoms with the sacrifices necessary to slow this thing down to a manageable level. Do I have all the answers? Certainly not. I doubt I know all the questions.

But I do know that unless we work together until we get this thing under control, we as a society will allow it to get much worse. 1 1/4 million cases and 75,000 dead in the US in the last two months is not something we should be ignoring. We should work to gradually and safely reopen the economy, but be ever mindful that it may cause an entire new wave of the disease.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775155]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long. They call it a Flu Vaccine but it really isn't vaccine in the same sense as the polio or measles vaccines. The flu is only for a certain strain that year and is far from 100% effective and I do not intend to get stuck every year on a vaccine that may or may not prevent it. The shelter in place was to flatten the curve so as to not overwhelm the health care industry and we have done that! Mission accomplished. Let's get back on with life and those who wish to hide in their homes are free to do so.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4775286]FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".[/QUOTE]And we have allowed big pharma to redefine obese, high BP, and other things just get us on drugs. Other countries, such as India, laugh at how quick we are to put people on drugs for tests they still consider to be in the normal range. I am not one to typically compare what works in countries the size of some of our average states but Sweden is not in the same boat. Plus, as I have said before, how many people who do have medical conditions are not getting them because the hospitals have shut down a lot of those procedures for now? We are going on 2 months now and some states may keep it another month. Dr Foolish Fauci wants all spectators not allowed in a sports complex this entire year along with concerts and other such things.

If you want to become a brain dead idiot with a brain full of mush, read Rants and Raves! Jesus Christ some of ya'll are ignorant fucks!

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4775286]FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".[/QUOTE]The New York Times, a former newspaper. Get out of here with your doomsday nonsense. It is so tiring and easy. They have no journalists, only activists and opinionists.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775421]And we have allowed big pharma to redefine obese, high BP, and other things just get us on drugs. Other countries, such as India, laugh at how quick we are to put people on drugs for tests they still consider to be in the normal range. I am not one to typically compare what works in countries the size of some of our average states but Sweden is not in the same boat. Plus, as I have said before, how many people who do have medical conditions are not getting them because the hospitals have shut down a lot of those procedures for now? We are going on 2 months now and some states may keep it another month. Dr Foolish Fauci wants all spectators not allowed in a sports complex this entire year along with concerts and other such things.[/QUOTE]The 3 big hotspots in Europe have all been traced to sporting events, specifically 3 soccer matches. This is why Dr. Fauci doesn't want to allow spectators.

[QUOTE=SeekingHead;4775507]The 3 big hotspots in Europe have all been traced to sporting events, specifically 3 soccer matches. This is why Dr. Fauci doesn't want to allow spectators.[/QUOTE]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775513]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.[/QUOTE]You do realize if we get a second wave of this pandemic everything will shut down again, perhaps for even longer. This equals no money for businesses, teams, employees etc for an even longer period of time.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775513]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.[/QUOTE]MLB, college football, NFL, NHL, NBA, & MLS all make a lot of money off of their TV contracts usually exceeding what spectators spend.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? .[/QUOTE]Yes we are. But global data shows there is not a one size fits all approach. I'll start with what you need to do:

Based on your age, you're part of the 90% that bad things happen to if they catch the China Virus. Not necessarily death, but bad sick. Hospital. Tubes shoved down your throat. ICU stay. And I'm sure you know that over 100,000 Americans die each year from unrelated virus' caught while in hospital. You're in hospital for simple appendix surgery or to get a new hip and you catch a virus floating around in the hospital that kills you. Tragic. Depending on your pre-existing conditions, if any, overweight, morbidly obese, elevated blood pressure or hypertension, diabetes or pre-diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc. , your age combined with one, two or many of those, you are now in the 95-99% of those who bad things happen to if they catch China Virus. That 95-99% is only a percentage of those known tested positive for virus, not of the whole. Estimates range from 5-40% of all have had China virus. Depending on that actual figure, even at the lowest estimate you'd have to multiple, thin the existing data by 15 x which puts the percent of Americans at grave risk from China Virus so low, w / many zeroes to the right of the decimal point followed by a long chain of numbers, that if I posted that, you would run to your kitchen and shove so many of the aforementioned jelly beans down your throat that you'd puke. They're no good for you anyway, pure sugar, if you are diabetic, pre-diabetic they'll kill you.

Pertaining to this hobby, what you need to do whether it's a massage parlor girl, a crack / heroin addict at the Red Roof or a $1,000 sugar baby co-ed, based on your age with or w / o pre-existing conditions, you need to be very careful. They're up close and personal w / many, most likely passing China Virus back and forth from asymptomatic to asymptomatic. A Petri dish if you will. A month or so ago, someone of natl. Prominence called for 12-24 month lockdown of the US. An ignorant fear monger of course, but his point had validity for those at high risk like yourself. China Virus isn't going to disappear. Weaken yes. But those at high risk, those who China Virus seeks out and hurts bad will still be at risk while a fraction of a percent of the rest of us won't be. So you need to be careful w / that activity for years to come.

You should stay inside as much as possible. When you go out for groceries or whatever, you need to wear a mask. A certified N95 mask. One not from China because many of those are counterfeits. An N95 can actually filter out the China Virus microbes. A bandanna, painter's mask from Lowe's do nothing but jeopardize the health of a man your age. Make your heart and lungs work harder and you just breathe in and out, in and out, virus' you already carry. Make you sick. You also need to wear latex gloves. Order a case and throw away after each use. China Virus can live for days on cardboard. You're at the grocery store, pick up a box of Metamucil that someone who has virus just touched, you rub an eye, pick your nose and you've become infected. China Virus can live for weeks if not months on plastics, plastic laminates, stainless steel. Surfaces that exist on sales counters, reception stations, Dr. 's offices, that cold steel table in the exam room, etc. That again carries the same risk for years to come.

Depending on your living situation, you may need to mask and glove up at home also. Your son, grandson, great grandson lives with you. He's doing his thing, feels great. No problems. But he could be a asymptomatic carrier of the China virus. You ask him to pass the salt, you touch that shared surface then lick that BBQ sauce from your fingers and you've become infected. Faucets, toilets, countertops, fridge doors, etc. All pose the same risk to you. For years to come as previously stated.

What I and others in my shared demographic need to do:

Basically whatever the fuck we want to do. If under the age of 60. Feel great. No known serious pre-existing conditions. Bang hookers. Eat at dine in restaurants. Don't wear a mask or gloves. But don't shake hands. If I see an elderly person like yourself, I give them space for their benefit, not mine. But tests show passing someone on the street or in an enclosed environment, China Virus won't leap off them and onto you over those brief seconds. This type of behavior among those in low risk group is what someone like yourself in a high risk group should encourage. You lay low. Let the rest get on fully with their lives and work toward weakening the virus so all are at lower risk. They'll be an uptick in cases and deaths as this happens. But many claim those deaths, serious case, would've occurred anyway. They've only been delayed and possibly increased by a lock down that weakens our immunity to all.

To the original question you asked me, 'Or are you just in it for yourself?' I ask you the same. Are you just in this for yourself? Do you seek further job loss, business loss, suicides, homicides, divorces, depression, assaults, food / supply chain disruptions leading to higher price for basic necessities for the 99%+ of the population at extremely low risk at the sole behest of the -1% like yourself at high risk with all based on mis/disinformation?

You and others can read the political propaganda copied and pasted here by some mook. Or the copied and pasted lab reports by some piss ant claiming the China Virus has mutated to an even deadlier version. You can watch some fuckstain on CNN telling you you'll fucking die unless we lock down for years. I could copy and paste multiple sources that claim the exact opposite of all. But I don't. I don't even have cable. All posts I've made on the China Virus have been fact based and data driven. Not opinions based on a political or selfish aim.

I've provided you with an excellent fact based, brief yet thorough snapshot of where we as a society, as individual parts of the whole are right now. If facts and data changes tomorrow, next week or next month, so will I. But if or when that happens, we have nothing left to discuss.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4775721]Yes we are. But global data shows there is not a one size fits all approach. So here's what you need to do:

Based on your age, you're part of the 90% that bad things happen to if they catch the China Virus. Not necessarily death, but bad sick. Hospital. Tubes shoved down your throat. ICU stay. And I'm sure you know that over 100,000 Americans die each year from unrelated virus' caught while in hospital. You're in hospital for simple appendix surgery or to get a new hip and you catch a virus floating around in the hospital that kills you. Tragic. Depending on your pre-existing conditions, if any, overweight, morbidly obese, elevated blood pressure or hypertension, diabetes or pre-diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc. , your age combined with one, two or many of those, you are now in the 95-99% of those who bad things happen to if they catch China Virus. That 95-99% is only a percentage of those known tested positive for virus, not of the whole. Estimates range from 5-40% of all have had China virus. Depending on that actual figure, even at the lowest estimate you'd have to multiple, thin the existing data by 15 x which puts the percent of Americans at grave risk from China Virus so low, w / many zeroes to the right of the decimal point followed by a long chain of numbers, that if I posted that, you would run to your kitchen and shove so many of the aforementioned jelly beans down your throat that you'd puke. They're no good for you anyway, pure sugar, if you are diabetic, pre-diabetic they'll kill you.

Pertaining to this hobby, what you need to do whether it's a massage parlor girl, a crack / heroin addict at the Red Roof or a $1,000 sugar baby co-ed, based on your age with or w / o pre-existing conditions, you need to be very careful. They're up close and personal w / many, most likely passing China Virus back and forth from asymptomatic to asymptomatic. A Petri dish if you will. A month or so ago, someone of natl. Prominence called for 12-24 month lockdown of the US. An ignorant fear monger of course, but his point had validity for those at high risk like yourself. China Virus isn't going to disappear. Weaken yes. But those at high risk, those who China Virus seeks out and hurts bad will still be at risk while a fraction of a percent of the rest of us won't be. So you need to be careful w / that activity for years to come.

You should stay inside as much as possible. When you go out for groceries or whatever, you need to wear a mask. A certified N95 mask. One not from China because many of those are counterfeits. An N95 can actually filter out the China Virus microbes. A bandanna, painter's mask from Lowe's do nothing but jeopardize the health of a man your age. Make your heart and lungs work harder and you just breathe in and out, in and out, virus' you already carry. Make you sick. You also need to wear latex gloves. Order a case and throw away after each use. China Virus can live for days on cardboard. You're at the grocery store, pick up a box of Metamucil that someone who has virus just touched, you rub an eye, pick your nose and you've become infected. China Virus can live for weeks if not months on plastics, plastic laminates, stainless steel. Surfaces that exist on sales counters, reception stations, Dr. 's offices, that cold steel table in the exam room, etc. That again carries the same risk for years to come.

Depending on your living situation, you may need to mask and glove up at home also. Your son, grandson, great grandson lives with you. He's doing his thing, feels great. No problems. But he could be a asymptomatic carrier of the China virus. You ask him to pass the salt, you touch that shared surface then lick that BBQ sauce from your fingers and you've become infected. Faucets, toilets, countertops, fridge doors, etc. All pose the same risk to you. For years to come as previously stated.

What I and others in my shared demographic need to do:

Basically whatever the fuck we want to do. If under the age of 60. Feel great. No known serious pre-existing conditions. Bang hookers. Eat at dine in restaurants. Don't wear a mask or gloves. But don't shake hands. If I see an elderly person like yourself, I give them space for their benefit, not mine. But tests show passing someone on the street or in an enclosed environment, China Virus won't leap off them and onto you over those brief seconds. This type of behavior among those in low risk group is what someone like yourself in a high risk group should encourage. You lay low. Let the rest get on fully with their lives and work toward weakening the virus so all are at lower risk. They'll be an uptick in cases and deaths as this happens. But many claim those deaths, serious case, would've occurred anyway. They've only been delayed and possibly increased by a lock down that weakens our immunity to all.

To the original question you asked me, 'Or are you just in it for yourself?' I ask you the same. Are you just in this for yourself? Do you seek further job loss, business loss, suicides, homicides, divorces, depression, assaults, food / supply chain disruptions leading to higher price for basic necessities for the 99%+ of the population at extremely low risk at the sole behest of the -1% like yourself at high risk with all based on mis/disinformation?

You and others can read the political propaganda copied and pasted here by some mook. Or the copied and pasted lab reports by some piss ant claiming the China Virus has mutated to an even deadlier version. You can watch some fuckstain on CNN telling you you'll fucking die unless we lock down for years. I could copy and paste multiple sources that claim the exact opposite of all. But I don't. I don't even have cable. All posts I've made on the China Virus have been fact based and data driven. Not opinions based on a political or selfish aim.

I've provided you with an excellent fact based, brief yet thorough snapshot of where we as a society, as individual parts of the whole are right now. If facts and data changes tomorrow, next week or next month, so will I. But if or when that happens, we have nothing left to discuss.[/QUOTE]Excellent post.

[QUOTE=SeekingHead;4775593]MLB, college football, NFL, NHL, NBA, & MLS all make a lot of money off of their TV contracts usually exceeding what spectators spend.[/QUOTE]The LEAGUES make most of the money from TV contracts, contracts that are already in place and are not up for re-negotiation this year or next. The TEAMS make money from ticket sales, concessions, parking, and seat licences, as well as a percentage of the TV contracts. So not having fans will hurt the franchises. Vendors. Workers that spend their game days selling beer and whatnot in the stadiums. Sports bars that show the games (NFL and maybe MLS) and draw droves of fans for games. The leagues will make the same because they are obligated to provide a product (set number of games) to be aired for an already negotiated contract. The networks will charge higher rates for their advertising during those games and make more (it's a guess how much more) money for those 30 and 60 second ads in front of a captive and entertainment starved audience.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_broadcasting_contracts_in_the_United_States[/URL]

Do anyone ***** about the complete loss of talent, at least in the area of Happy Ending massages? Ten years ago there was a plethora of ladies that would give an awesome massage and happily grab your weiner at the end. Some were more than happy to let you blow as many loads as you could shoot.

I look at other areas of the country, and there seem to be a lot of these types of ladies working. And good looking ones, too. What the fuck happened to Atlanta?

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4775574]You do realize if we get a second wave of this pandemic everything will shut down again, perhaps for even longer. This equals no money for businesses, teams, employees etc for an even longer period of time.[/QUOTE]And you do realize that if we shut ourselves down again, having given absolutely no thought to any reaction other than economic suicide, that the only country left to us will be one of mass bloodletting in the streets? We are close to that now. Some of you either seem to want that or you are so myopic that you will allow no other alternative. I refuse to believe that we cannot handle this virus without committing economic suicide. I refuse to believe that we cannot provide safety for the most vulnerable among us AND have economic stability at the same time. I do NOT understand why it must be one or the other, with economic suicide being the far worse alternative. Tell me why a shutdown of 24,12, or even 6 months is sustainable to some of you out there? What we have done to ourselves these past few months cannot, CANNOT, happen again. If it does, the blood on the hands will be on the hands of those of you who insisted on yet another mindless shutdown with no other alternatives allowed. For some of you bad asses out there, think long and hard about insisting on another shutdown because there will be at least an equal number of bad asses out here who will oppose you. This is not kid's stuff anymore. This is getting really real now. We had a revolution in 1776. We had a Civil War in the 1860's. Another bloody catastrophe is entirely possible in the here and now. I and many others seek compromise. Many of you do not. History tells us how that usually turns out. Make up your minds. We can go either way. Think about it, and I do mean really, really think about it.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4775721]

I've provided you with an excellent fact based, brief yet thorough snapshot of where we as a society, as individual parts of the whole are right now. If facts and data changes tomorrow, next week or next month, so will I. But if or when that happens, we have nothing left to discuss.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AcWorthDude;4775754]Excellent post.[/QUOTE]Though I disagree with the way Aaron interprets the facts and the decision he makes based on those facts, he's not wrong. Except for his definition of brief. I thought it was a Johnny Mapalo post at first.

There's no black and white here. Stay completely closed and the economy dies. Open up completely and you save jobs and get the economy going, and people (a lot more) will die. There is a spot in the gray area between that will save jobs and save lives, but some jobs and some lives will (and have already been) lost. The problem is people are too busy fighting over what suits them best and they don't take the time to see the big picture. And no one knows for sure what this virus really is or does. No one is completely wrong here, everyone is just basing their decisions on their point of view and their (limited) knowledge of how many people this virus has infected and killed. Like the 7 blind men and the elephant. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant[/URL].

I look at it like this. This virus is killing people with underlying conditions at a higher rate than healthy people. Without solid testing and true and honest accounting we don't know the real numbers. So those of you that think the pandemic is a scam or not a threat you, go out there do your thing. The president assures us we have this thing under control and we have enough ventilators and PPE so that anyone that does get Covid-19 will be nursed back to health. I believe that this is Darwinism at it's finest. If you want to get out there and do your thing more power to ya. Roll those dice with your life and health on the table. When those people start getting sick and dying they have only themselves to blame.

Ever see a picture of those acres of graves at Arlington or WW II era grave sites in Europe? I wonder how long before we see those here in the US. I know, some of you don't believe that will come to pass. Do me a favor and PM me your list of UTRs before you go out. Have all the fun you can stand out there. I will keep sheltering and working from home until this things sorts itself out.

Good luck either way.