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Consensus: A general agreement among those that are knowledgeable about a subject and capable of providing an opinion.
Stubborn: Having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so.
So which is it? From what I am reading I guess everyone now knows, except for one.
DAMN!
I'm sorry I brought it up and apparently then degraded the term UTR. Next time I will keep my mouth shut!
I give up!
I still like stealth.
Dave.
[QUOTE=MrEnvious;2949227]Everyone has a right to there opinion and your's is wrong! See it works both ways. You are not the king and last word on opinions.[/QUOTE]It's their, not there and yours, not your's, since we're being correct.
When I see someone making a mistake, or doing something they will later regret, I speak up. In most cases, I even try to be diplomatic, try to see all sides and accept their validity. After all, isn't that how we learn, how we progress?
You've been called out by several of the most respected people on this board, some have been harsher than others, each of them saying the same thing. The smart move is to take a step back, swallow your pride and apologize. Learn from the experience and try to overcome the negative feelings. As I said, even though you believe you are right, all those other voices saying you were wrong have good reasons. Why not accept this is a war you can't win and try for a better peace treaty?
This isn't about opinions, it's about the real world we all have to live in. Our actions, even the ones on this mostly anonymous forum, affect our lives and the lives of others. Having the last word on this matter may feel satisfying, but there are always consequences. Is your pride worth the price? No, that's not a threat. It's simply accepting the fact that pissing off the wrong people is bound to limit your options.
I've never claimed to be the King, I think that's one of the SOUP's many titles.
[QUOTE=Dyoung35;2949287]DAMN!
I'm sorry I brought it up and apparently then degraded the term UTR. Next time I will keep my mouth shut![/QUOTE]DYoung tries to do everyone a solid and you beat him down about what the hell UTR is?
Hope this sight doesn't go to politics from ladies, we're all FUBAR then!!
Thanks for the effort DY, always appreciated.
[QUOTE=Jjbee62;2949416]I've never claimed to be the King, I think that's one of the SOUP's many titles.[/QUOTE]Even I do not claim that one. A certain provider gave me that title. I told her I defer it to Ilapp or FF. I will leave it up to her if she wants to chime in but if / when she does that may add another damn name. (And no this time it ain't Nat. Those names you don't get. LOL).
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;2949171]This is a interesting question. Many opinions and none really wrong or right but input from others could be helpful before being added to the Newbies Blog.
"True UTR" is completely under the radar. No names, phone numbers or e-mails are posted on any type of forum or website. Business is completely derived from word of mouth, through back channels on this or other boards. No reviews, no ads, no postings on any escort sites, etc. Nobody knows anything about the UTR without the UTR approving its release through her customer (s) first. This is in many peoples opinion is the definition of a "True UTR". Now is it possible that a "True UTR" can also be a provider that requests a monger to put up a post that he has a UTR that is looking for additional customers and to contact him for more details. It's just a more expedient way than sending out massive PM's. Since nobody really knows anything about her then isn't she still a "True UTR". I think it is because the key is no contact info is out on open forum (s) and backchannels have to be used to contact her. Some of these UTR's may have been on a SB site and met the monger there and is now willing to step out more into the mainstream limelight, but still remain mostly anonymous. I know several UTR's that are this way. Nobody knows their name and phone number unless the UTR provides it once they are comfortable with the initial contact through the posting monger. So please chime in to agree or disagree.
"Quasi-UTR" is a type of UTR that wants to avoid any type of advertising on any site, but is willing to have someone post about them with a minor review and / or minor description along with some way to contact the QUTR directly either by handle or e-mail address. NO phone number is posted. Still nobody knows much about the QUTR and it's up to the QUTR to respond to the contacts. The QUTR does not want reviews and limits who is going to post about them. Everything is controlled by the QUTR.
Provider is a UTR that starts posting ads, allows reviews on review sites, posts phone numbers, posts pictures, and then they are no longer a UTR. They have exposed themselves to the mainstream business and are now a true provider open to the public. Many UTR's go this route.
Etiquette with UTR's. A monger who sends a UTR's contact info out or exposes her on open forum without her approval is a "Bad" Monger. A monger who exposes a UTR, with her approval, is doing it the right way.
I think the key is a "True UTR" no matter how she is promoted cannot be contacted by any means other than through back channels. Nobody knows anything about her except that she is out there. Please chime in on thoughts.[/QUOTE]Maybe some new terminology is needed. Keep UTR for the true UTR and come up with something different for QUTR and the rest.
Once someone posts about the UTR, except in the most generic terms; "usually my UTR takes care of me, but I decided to try. ", the risk of them becoming better known goes up, especially with the "seeking new customers" scenario. It's possible for a not yet trusted member to convince them to share the info and possible that person will then share with others, without permission. Two weeks later, the UTR is getting a call from a Pakistani who is coming to town on business and got the number from an unknown guy on a Pakistani escort site.
Giving out UTR info is a sacred trust. First the request needs to originate with the provider, either by a direct request or a not too subtle hint; "a few of my regulars moved away, so I have more free time. " Then there's the, "I know a guy. ", back and forth, finding out if the guy and the UTR are both open for an introduction.
I've received a few PMs from unknown users, giving unsolicited contact info for some UTR. To me, they are no longer UTR. I won't give the info, even if asked (and that has happened), but clearly not everyone feels the same way. Too many possible scenarios, but here's one:
Monger A says he knows a UTR looking for new customers. Out of 30 PMs, he gives the info to 5, the rest he brushes off. Monger C, who didn't get the info, sends PMs to everyone who he thinks might have the info, and Monger B, gives it up. Monger C contacts the UTR, who shoots him down because he's not on the list from Monger A. Monger C, who is a bit unstable, puts up a BP ad with the UTR phone number. UTR is now completely compromised. If she isn't using a hobby phone, her name and address are now in the hands of thousands. No happy ending.
It's a good topic for discussion, but I don't know if we'll find any answers.
[QUOTE=Dyoung35;2949287]DAMN!
I'm sorry I brought it up and apparently then degraded the term UTR. Next time I will keep my mouth shut![/QUOTE]I agree with you Dyoung35. What's the point in trying to contribute?
And just to do FF a favor I will uninvited myself from the M&G tomorrow.
I know half the providers that are going anyway. The other half will just have to decide for themselves whether it is worth it to them to attend if only those in FF's circle of friends are coming anyway.
I would even be willing to bet that others on this board do not contribute because they don't want to be the target of FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE's criticism.
And of course, they won't say they agree with me they will just remain silent. That's what you call a consensus. Not when all your buddy's agree with you!
I think the reason that A2 is so tired of this Indy crowd is because this useless diatribe doesn't contribute anything. And it probably thwarts further input from others.
And as you can read into IndyGuy123's comments, you don't want to piss off the FF because there will be ramifications. I hope A2 took note of that veiled threat to anyone else who dare contribute and risk the ridicule of FF and friends.
So, maybe A2 can consider banning FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE for 2 months and make it known on this board that you are now free to contribute without fear of retribution from these guys for 2 months.
Then, let's see how much more active the silent members become from this 2 month moratorium.
If I'm right the providers will be happy, the members will be happy and the rest of us will be able to learn more from each other that is productive to the purpose of the forum.
[QUOTE=IrishLaddie;2949452]DYoung tries to do everyone a solid and you beat him down about what the hell UTR is?
Hope this sight doesn't go to politics from ladies, we're all FUBAR then!!
Thanks for the effort DY, always appreciated.[/QUOTE]DYoung35 didn't do anything wrong. He did a good deed and I'm sure most of us appreciate the information. There's a problem with the understanding of UTR, but that's not his fault, it's just not defined the same by everyone. If anything, the confusion is helpful because it opens up a discussion and gives us all a chance to learn.
DYoung35, don't keep silent. If you find a SW who should be in an upscale in call, help her climb the ranks, because there are too many out there who will take her in the opposite direction and right now she's very vulnerable.
[QUOTE=MrEnvious;2949468]I agree with you Dyoung35. What's the point in trying to contribute?
And just to do FF a favor I will uninvited myself from the M&G tomorrow.
I know half the providers that are going anyway. The other half will just have to decide for themselves whether it is worth it to them to attend if only those in FF's circle of friends are coming anyway.
I would even be willing to bet that others on this board do not contribute because they don't want to be the target of FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE's criticism.
And of course, they won't say they agree with me they will just remain silent. That's what you call a consensus. Not when all your buddy's agree with you!
I think the reason that A2 is so tired of this Indy crowd is because this useless diatribe doesn't contribute anything. And it probably thwarts further input from others.
And as you can read into IndyGuy123's comments, you don't want to piss off the FF because there will be ramifications. I hope A2 took note of that veiled threat to anyone else who dare contribute and risk the ridicule of FF and friends.
So, maybe A2 can consider banning FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE for 2 months and make it known on this board that you are now free to contribute without fear of retribution from these guys for 2 months.
Then, let's see how much more active the silent members become from this 2 month moratorium.
If I'm right the providers will be happy, the members will be happy and the rest of us will be able to learn more from each other that is productive to the purpose of the forum.[/QUOTE]Just ignore them. There opinions are worthless and they really can't' "do" anything other then ***** and moan to one another in the prickyard like a bunch of drama queens. Why do you think they frequent this part of the forum so much?
[QUOTE=MrEnvious;2949468]I agree with you Dyoung35. What's the point in trying to contribute?
And just to do FF a favor I will uninvited myself from the M&G tomorrow.
I know half the providers that are going anyway. The other half will just have to decide for themselves whether it is worth it to them to attend if only those in FF's circle of friends are coming anyway.
I would even be willing to bet that others on this board do not contribute because they don't want to be the target of FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE's criticism.
And of course, they won't say they agree with me they will just remain silent. That's what you call a consensus. Not when all your buddy's agree with you!
I think the reason that A2 is so tired of this Indy crowd is because this useless diatribe doesn't contribute anything. And it probably thwarts further input from others.
And as you can read into IndyGuy123's comments, you don't want to piss off the FF because there will be ramifications. I hope A2 took note of that veiled threat to anyone else who dare contribute and risk the ridicule of FF and friends.
[/QUOTE]LHT.
Did you feel I was being critical of you? That wasn't my intent and there's seldom any ambiguity when I'm being critical. I tried to salvage a situation that was going downhill fast. I can only assume you are too emotionally invested in this to see anyone except as friend or foe.
Perhaps A2 should ban the lot of us and start banning the advertisers who also speak their mind. It would certainly make his job easier, eventually it would make his job obsolete.
Hop around the site a little. Look at the different city forums. The entire state of Texas has less than half the reports of Indianapolis. The state of New York only has about 8% more. Indy has 17,000 more reports than Miami. Ask for info on many city boards and you get nothing. Ask in Indy and you'll at least get a RTFF.
Yes, there is criticism. There will always be criticism when you have an involved and caring community. Sometimes the criticism is harsh and occasionally undeserving (a perfect example, when you criticized Bob0324 for his review of the girl at the heart of this fiasco). Not everyone uses tact. The intent isn't to drive people away, the intent is to open people's eyes. This is a hobby with many different risks, risks which can devastate the lives of many. Most of us understand this and have seen the worst that can happen. It's better to risk bruising someone's ego, than to risk destroying another's life.
Nobody likes criticism. It's hard to swallow your pride and take it as intended. The easiest response is the one you've chosen. I call it "The Jerk Response", from the movie, "I don't need you, I don't need anything, except this thermos. ".
Instead of accepting everyone's feelings, you've decided only your feelings matter. Even now, you're rallying others to your side, although nobody has spoken up in your defense, claiming their lack of support is proof of support. If that works, I'm a billionaire, because I have no money.
This is the part where I am criticizing you. You made a mistake.
LHT. You publicly asked about inviting a new, unknown provider to a meet & greet for established and known providers and mongers. You were criticized for your mistake.
LHT. You made another mistake. Instead of a simple "my bad" you insisted on defending your first mistake. You were again criticized, by more people.
LHT. You made the same mistake again. Instead of realizing you were already up the creek without a paddle, you jumped out of the canoe to attack the people criticizing your first 2 mistakes.
LHT. You decided you can breathe underwater in sh*t Creek and attacked everyone, choosing to burn bridges instead of mending fences.
Banning the people, who combined are responsible for about 10% of all posts in the Indy Forum (and 25% of the recent posts), won't cause the silent 99% to suddenly start contributing, it will just mean they have less reasons to visit the site (and generate advertising revenue). Do you honestly believe the guys with 3 posts, all asking for information about BP advertisers with 100 reviews will suddenly start reading the forum and posting about their experiences? It's not going to happen. Instead, they'll go to another site and ask the same questions without ever posting a review. That's the world we live in.
[QUOTE] So, maybe A2 can consider banning FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE for 2 months and make it known on this board that you are now free to contribute without fear of retribution from these guys for 2 months.
Then, let's see how much more active the silent members become from this 2 month moratorium.
If I'm right the providers will be happy, the members will be happy and the rest of us will be able to learn more from each other that is productive to the purpose of the forum. [/QUOTE]You left a few names out, but that's okay.
What if you're wrong? What if removing the people who take the time to share information, offer help and teach people, means there won't be anyone left to share information, offer help and teach people? What if removing the people, including women who are paid advertisers, who actively contribute to the site, reduces the amount of contributions? What if the result is the Indy board dries up and dies? What then? Will you pay Jackson for the lost revenue? Will you reimburse all the people ripped off by Neveah (currently known as Kim)? Will you post bail for the people picked up in the next sting? Will you pay medical bills for providers who get beaten up by a customer? These are just some of the things the critical assholes help to prevent.
You made a mistake. Wallow in it or learn from it, the choice is yours.
[QUOTE=MrEnvious;2949468]I agree with you Dyoung35. What's the point in trying to contribute?
And just to do FF a favor I will uninvited myself from the M&G tomorrow.
I know half the providers that are going anyway. The other half will just have to decide for themselves whether it is worth it to them to attend if only those in FF's circle of friends are coming anyway.
I would even be willing to bet that others on this board do not contribute because they don't want to be the target of FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE's criticism.
And of course, they won't say they agree with me they will just remain silent. That's what you call a consensus. Not when all your buddy's agree with you!
I think the reason that A2 is so tired of this Indy crowd is because this useless diatribe doesn't contribute anything. And it probably thwarts further input from others.
And as you can read into IndyGuy123's comments, you don't want to piss off the FF because there will be ramifications. I hope A2 took note of that veiled threat to anyone else who dare contribute and risk the ridicule of FF and friends.
So, maybe A2 can consider banning FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE for 2 months and make it known on this board that you are now free to contribute without fear of retribution from these guys for 2 monthsl.
Then, let's see how much more active the silent members become from this 2 month moratorium.
If I'm right the providers will be happy, the members will be happy and the rest of us will be able to learn more from each other that is productive to the purpose of the forum.[/QUOTE]We have a new candidate ladies and gentlemen. You fit right in with making excuses and going after people when actually you kind of started this but just like all these great candidates we have gotten to know so very well. You will never admit that and just keep slamming people. Just like every great corrupted politician the blame is always on the other person rather than the error of their ways.
Now as far as A2 is concerned. I really don't think he needs anyone to tell him how to do his job and did any of them threaten you? Did any of them threaten to tie you up, beat you down. Have their " cronies " come do it for them? Or did they just hurt your feelings or rather try to explain what they were meaning in a sarcastic manner? I don't think I'm in a episode of Empire Boardwalk Jesus. You got defensive. Point blank. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and NO we all have not drank the FF red Kool aid however if something is pointed out like a factual statement you get defensive kind of like how you got defensive about another provider a while back. You got defensive and talked about everyone not knowing the facts when in fact in BLACK AND WHITE it stated where he MET her but just again like every great politician you are correct sir and everyone else is wrong. If you don't think people are NOT going to be defensive back on something then I'm not sure where you have been.
Dyoung35 did nothing wrong here and it wasn't his posting that actually started this shit. It was yours.
A2 I am ready for vacation and ready to return favors LOL.
[blue]Sugar I don't really read posts on the fight thread. I'm too busy having beers with FF, JJBEE62 and MWDUDE on my terrace.
This guy is just blowing hot air, anybody can report any of those guys posts, if they are ridiculing people on a review thread just report the fucking post. I threw a flag at one of those guys a couple weeks ago.
If they are ridiculing somebody on a fight thread just put them on ignore. There's a reason they don't, it's because they like fighting with guys on a sex forum more than they like researching pussy.
Pack your lip gloss and eye protection if you're coming my way.
A2[/blue]
[QUOTE=Jjbee62;2949579]LHT.
You made a mistake. Wallow in it or learn from it, the choice is yours.[/QUOTE]Every time I try to make it my last word, someone does the usual and opens another can of worms that requires further discussion.
You say you didn't criticize but anyone can see you criticized my spelling and grammar as though that is important. I type fast, so what. I'm a busy person. I don't always check my spelling and grammar. I have limited time for that on this forum.
I have seen the other city posts. You are right some are uninformative. Those cities have a large agency system that dates back many years before BP. Agencies still run the escort services in those big cities and there isn't much need for a forum like this. Every agency is going to provide fantastic girls in Miami for instance. Not much need for a forum, or maybe it just hasn't caught on in the bigger cities for some other reason.
I already apologized to Bob. I only said I bet you didn't see her. I never criticized his character as is your standard. I have seen your writings before. You always try to turn it around on the other person and accuse them of being emotional.
I'm sure others see that pattern also. There is a difference between disagreeing and attacking the character of the person.
If you read carefully you will notice that I try to remain objective. I don't make character attacks.
I have privately PM'd FF in the past complimenting him on somethings he has written. That's my nature.
Yes the posts here are greater in number than other cities but the majority are not informative, they are mostly non-sense. So, you can't just count posts. That is the point. Whenever these posts dive down into character and intent of the poster they stop being productive and just argumentative.
All A2 has to do is look at the number of posts by You, MWDUDE, and FF and see how many are actual reviews of providers. That's all that matters. Not how many posts. Believe me, you won't be missed on this forum.
Now let me give you an analogy to the original discussion. FF accused me a having broken some etiquette.
So to use his wedding analogy, suppose I put a public post on a public forum suggesting that the bride's ex-boyfriend be invited to the party. Clearly that would be inappropriate.
Or suppose I suggest they invite the groom's ex-girlfriend. Same problem.
Now suppose I went to a party last night and heard great band playing. Then I posted a message that the bride and groom should invite this band to play at the reception party.
Maybe to you that is bad etiquette. But not to me.
At the M&G, you are not the entertainment I would have come to see. I promise. Instead, I would have come for the providers, because they are the entertainment.
Suggesting another possible "entertainer" be invited isn't any different than the analogy above.
But, you and FF's other friends suggest that my character is flawed and I have no common sense.
I still say you are wrong. See, I can do that too. It doesn't make you right just because you can say another person is wrong.
Then I caught FF completely contradicting himself about talking about something when one is not a party in the room. Not one of you came out and said, yes, that is true. MrEnvious makes a very good point.
Why not? Everyone knows why not. You completely ignored my point about IndyGuy123's veiled threat about pissing off FF. So, of course, no one will.
Now on top of all that I said, "I think I'll un-invite myself to the M&G". Can you really blame me?
You are entitled to your opinions. You are not entitled to character assassinations without receiving a response.
I will let others on this board be the judge.
The only way we can find out if I am right about others posting responses without you guys on here is to try it. What are you afraid of? I might be proven right?
Awhile back one poster mentioned he did not like the drama that was on the old NR forum. Since that day, there has been nothing but drama in this thread and others. Someone needs to relent, right or wrong.