"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2358228]A bit burned out at the moment, but not in necessarily a bad way. I now deem myself somewhat of a professional SD, WITH issues. The girls keep falling for me and I keep playing along with it. I have even went so far as to rent my own very nice townhouse on the side, furnished it, etc, all so I'd have a place 24/7 to bring the girls back. It's for no other purpose.

I've noticed a common denominator with these girls, especially the ones that get clingy and want relationships. Some of them are really sad inside, sweet, and kind young women, but, THEY ARE FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD! I've had marriage proposals and everything in between.

The latest girl is 24 in school, 5'2" very petite, big tits on her small frame, a bit of a loose box, but that's ok, she is a fucking freak in bed. I can't really even keep up with her. And now she too, is saying she's in love. Who am I ask? That this has now happened four times to me? I got maybe a slightly above average dick in size, yeah, I'm in shape for my age, I don't allow these girls to push me around, I stand my own and can be kind and gentle etc, but I do test their limits. I'm not God's gift to woman and this keeps happening. And if you think they just want my money, in all four of these instances now, they asked me to stop giving it to them cause they wanted it to be real. WTF?

For those out there entertaining the idea of this hobby, a big huge warning. As you get further into this and connect with a few of these fine young women. (not just the wham bam types, but a connection) you will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be able to go back to a partnership type relationship with a woman you own age. And for a moment you might think something real, can come of it as then reality of your age kicks in. And then the twenty something you've become attached is there and then you'll wake up and realize too much of your life has gone by and it isn't happening. A true defining moment of something "bitter sweet" But my brothers, that can be internally painful to realize when you have some starry eyes beauty wanting future plans with you, who will suck the cum out of every night and you have to face reality, in a few years, you'll be knocking on deaths door and she will just be beginning her life. It's a tough pill to swallow. Trust me.

So my advise, work very hard to keep the feelings at bay and if you sense them coming on. RUN, no matter how good she is.

If you know how to play this game, it can be the most rewarding experiences of you life as a man. It can take you back and let you see how you could have and maybe should have done things. It will make you think you can win over beautiful 20-something women and awe them, but at the end of the day, it will forever remain bitter sweet. So learn how to deal with all that before you start getting serious with any of these women.[/QUOTE]Damn this was a profound post for me. Just got divorced last year from a hot Asian I brought over from China who is 20 years younger than me. I've had those thoughts myself regarding time and their age. Get this. She still lives with me even though we're divorced. She loves the hell out of me, but I didn't want another baby at my age, and what I 've been going through in family court with children from another relationship. My hot Asian ex-wife could get guys every day if she wanted. I set her up on [URL]match.com[/URL] and eharmony to try and help her find a husband that will give her a baby. She gets hundreds of letters from match. Literally. If you saw the pictures she posts every one of your guys would want to do her. She's that nice. But I digress. Dirty Deed I could not have said it any better than you did with one caveat. I'm hooked on the Asian girls. I love and prefer their spinner bodies. Always slim. I'm just getting back to the western girls these days, but they must be slim. I cannot handle any extra padding. Oh and young too.

On a side note. Speaking of western girls and why I've been so turned off the last several years. One stood me up today on a m & g. It reminded me why I went with foreign girls, but I'll stay with it. I hate to admit how far I drove. I'm usually pretty seasoned on stuff, but I had a dumb moment.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2358755]The last line of MSG 1 reads "I do prefer a per meeting arrangement to start. If you could let me know what your expectation $ are that would be great. ".

Is that typo? Or do you actually ask about their expectation $ in the first message? What have you done when they reply 3 k-5 k / month did you keep going?

I initially thought the idea of 1-2-3 was to gradually justify your $ per date offer but then I went back and re-read your post.[/QUOTE]Expectation$. It just gets the thought planted in their mind. They rarely address it at this point. If you follow all the messages exactly I can guarantee that it works. But better to customize it to your needs. If they are this faint of heart or want to pretend they are something they are not this early in the game I would rather wash them out.

Asian girl in VA and sometimes New York. If you have met this girl would like to talk. If you have not met her yet, I would hold off a little while. If you are in DMV area and met her or thinking about it message and will share with you.

Yeah, it definitely qualifies. I've only been playing in the bowl since Dec. 2014, and after only three months, so much of DirtyDeeds post rings true.

One main difference is that I am under 40. I agree that when I am lying with some pyt, who is willing to do anything to please me, crazy thoughts go through my head. The only thing that keeps me from acting on those crazy thoughts is knowing that the next week, I will be in bed with another pyt who will make me feel the same way. That and knowing that I have a SO at home who doesn't have the same headcase issues that all these girls do.

I guess that means I am the one that is f*cked up in the head. I wouldn't disagree if someone made the case for that, but in someways, I think an argument could be made that everyone who is playing in the bowl has at least some unresolved issues that they are dealing with. But then again, that same argument could probably be made for all of humanity.

In any case, great post by dirty deeds.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2358228]A bit burned out at the moment, but not in necessarily a bad way. I now deem myself somewhat of a professional SD, WITH issues. The girls keep falling for me and I keep playing along with it. I have even went so far as to rent my own very nice townhouse on the side, furnished it, etc, all so I'd have a place 24/7 to bring the girls back. It's for no other purpose.

I've noticed a common denominator with these girls, especially the ones that get clingy and want relationships. Some of them are really sad inside, sweet, and kind young women, but, THEY ARE FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD! I've had marriage proposals and everything in between.

The latest girl is 24 in school, 5'2" very petite, big tits on her small frame, a bit of a loose box, but that's ok, she is a fucking freak in bed. I can't really even keep up with her. And now she too, is saying she's in love. Who am I ask? That this has now happened four times to me? I got maybe a slightly above average dick in size, yeah, I'm in shape for my age, I don't allow these girls to push me around, I stand my own and can be kind and gentle etc, but I do test their limits. I'm not God's gift to woman and this keeps happening. And if you think they just want my money, in all four of these instances now, they asked me to stop giving it to them cause they wanted it to be real. WTF?

For those out there entertaining the idea of this hobby, a big huge warning. As you get further into this and connect with a few of these fine young women. (not just the wham bam types, but a connection) you will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be able to go back to a partnership type relationship with a woman you own age. And for a moment you might think something real, can come of it as then reality of your age kicks in. And then the twenty something you've become attached is there and then you'll wake up and realize too much of your life has gone by and it isn't happening. A true defining moment of something "bitter sweet" But my brothers, that can be internally painful to realize when you have some starry eyes beauty wanting future plans with you, who will suck the cum out of every night and you have to face reality, in a few years, you'll be knocking on deaths door and she will just be beginning her life. It's a tough pill to swallow. Trust me.

So my advise, work very hard to keep the feelings at bay and if you sense them coming on. RUN, no matter how good she is.

If you know how to play this game, it can be the most rewarding experiences of you life as a man. It can take you back and let you see how you could have and maybe should have done things. It will make you think you can win over beautiful 20-something women and awe them, but at the end of the day, it will forever remain bitter sweet. So learn how to deal with all that before you start getting serious with any of these women.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2358228]A bit burned out at the moment, but not in necessarily a bad way. I now deem myself somewhat of a professional SD, WITH issues. The girls keep falling for me and I keep playing along with it. I have even went so far as to rent my own very nice townhouse on the side, furnished it, etc, all so I'd have a place 24/7 to bring the girls back. It's for no other purpose.

I've noticed a common denominator with these girls, especially the ones that get clingy and want relationships. Some of them are really sad inside, sweet, and kind young women, but, THEY ARE FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD! I've had marriage proposals and everything in between.

The latest girl is 24 in school, 5'2" very petite, big tits on her small frame, a bit of a loose box, but that's ok, she is a fucking freak in bed. I can't really even keep up with her. And now she too, is saying she's in love. Who am I ask? That this has now happened four times to me? I got maybe a slightly above average dick in size, yeah, I'm in shape for my age, I don't allow these girls to push me around, I stand my own and can be kind and gentle etc, but I do test their limits. I'm not God's gift to woman and this keeps happening. And if you think they just want my money, in all four of these instances now, they asked me to stop giving it to them cause they wanted it to be real. WTF?

For those out there entertaining the idea of this hobby, a big huge warning. As you get further into this and connect with a few of these fine young women. (not just the wham bam types, but a connection) you will NEVER, I repeat NEVER be able to go back to a partnership type relationship with a woman you own age. And for a moment you might think something real, can come of it as then reality of your age kicks in. And then the twenty something you've become attached is there and then you'll wake up and realize too much of your life has gone by and it isn't happening. A true defining moment of something "bitter sweet" But my brothers, that can be internally painful to realize when you have some starry eyes beauty wanting future plans with you, who will suck the cum out of every night and you have to face reality, in a few years, you'll be knocking on deaths door and she will just be beginning her life. It's a tough pill to swallow. Trust me.

So my advise, work very hard to keep the feelings at bay and if you sense them coming on. RUN, no matter how good she is.

If you know how to play this game, it can be the most rewarding experiences of you life as a man. It can take you back and let you see how you could have and maybe should have done things. It will make you think you can win over beautiful 20-something women and awe them, but at the end of the day, it will forever remain bitter sweet. So learn how to deal with all that before you start getting serious with any of these women.[/QUOTE]This is a great post and has given me some food for thought.

I discovered this forum in October of 2013. In my early 40's, a few kids at home and stuck in a failed marriage with non-existent sexit gave me a new sense of energy and drive in my life at the time. Fast forward to now and I'm currently in the process of divorcing. I have no interest right now for a "real" relationship but the Bowl is providing companionship, thrill, and fun while as I work through the healing process.

My challenge will be a year from now or so. Divorce is finalized. Do I want to live the Hollywood Guy lifestyle and just hang out with a new hottie every day or so or do I want to try and find love and a real relationship. Only time will tell. But until then. Play on!

0 for 3 this week. But such is life in the bowl.

POT 1: 37 year old divorcee. Probably about a 6. Claims she's been on the site for awhile but I was the first guy she's met. She drove an hour to meet me. Decent body. Stated she's not interested in an allowance but just wants to travel and be spoiled by material things. Tried to talk her into the FC that night but she said she wasn't "the kind of girl to hook up on the first date". We had a frank discussion as to the difference between this type of relationship and dating but she wasn't having it. She said she'd love to go out on another date and that things would be different. I took a gamble and basically played the "it's tonight or never" card and it backfired on me. As we were saying our goodbyes she was expecting a kiss and I basically walked away with just a quick goodbye and no hug or anything. Later found her on FB and she posted a "I just went on the worst date ever" status report. All the Mother Hens where chiming in on how she deserves better, etc. I wanted to so bad post a note about what kind of date she was on. . Total cost $40 for drinks and apps.

POT 2: 27 year old. Been on the site since January. Claims she was a lesbian before this and just had sex for the first time with a man a few weeks ago!! Not sure why, but I kind of believe her. Said I'm the 3rd guy from the site she's met in person. Tried to get her to the FC but she also played the, let's meet again and see where it goes card. I was feeling horny that night as this one took place right after the failed M&G from the one above so I also played the "now or never" card. She then went into a rant about how she just didn't see this working between us because she thinks I have too much energy for her and she wouldn't be able to keep up sexually with me. Next. Total cost $8. 00 for drinks.

POT 3: 23 year old MILF. This was our second date. First time we met for a couple of drinks. Chemistry was high and she called me right after the date stating how much she looked forward to meeting. The week in between that date and this date was spent with lots of sexual innuendo over text message and her deleting the profile off the site. The day of our scheduled date #2 she flaked claiming her child was sick but we quickly rescheduled for the following day. The plan was for me to drive the 35 minutes to her, meet for drinks, and then go hang out at her place. I thought the FC was a foregone conclusion. We meet for drinks and are hitting it off, fun conversation, lots of laughs, etc. It was near blizzard like conditions out and I had a bit to drive so I believe my fatal mistake was trying to advance the date back to quickly to her place. After our second round of drinks she takes off to the bathroom. 5 minutes later her phone rings and she claims it's her friend on the other line who just got in a minor car accident so she couldn't hang out anymore. Sensing this was total BS I basically turned asshole on her with a "bartender, check please! She took off and texted back with all kinds of apologies but I basically told her I knew she was lying and wasn't going to put up with that. She got cold feet for some reason. Perhaps I didn't do a good enough job of comfort building, etc. This one is probably a lost cause but I've left the door slightly open. Total costs. $40 for drinks and apps on date #2. $20 on date #1.

[QUOTE=LandonR;2359312]0 for 3 this week. But such is life in the bowl.[/QUOTE]I went 0 for 3 as well. But that's just 3 girls off my list and on to the next three. I consider it a success. Every no just puts you one step closer to a yes.

I never, ever go negative as you never know. Had one SB who decided I really was worth seeing after taking a bunch of shit and never regretted that. In real life dating ok to call them to task but I think not in the bowl.

[QUOTE=LandonR;2359312]0 for 3 this week. But such is life in the bowl.

POT 1: 37 year old divorcee. Probably about a 6. Claims she's been on the site for awhile but I was the first guy she's met. She drove an hour to meet me. Decent body. Stated she's not interested in an allowance but just wants to travel and be spoiled by material things. Tried to talk her into the FC that night but she said she wasn't "the kind of girl to hook up on the first date". We had a frank discussion as to the difference between this type of relationship and dating but she wasn't having it. She said she'd love to go out on another date and that things would be different. I took a gamble and basically played the "it's tonight or never" card and it backfired on me. As we were saying our goodbyes she was expecting a kiss and I basically walked away with just a quick goodbye and no hug or anything. Later found her on FB and she posted a "I just went on the worst date ever" status report. All the Mother Hens where chiming in on how she deserves better, etc. I wanted to so bad post a note about what kind of date she was on. . Total cost $40 for drinks and apps.

POT 2: 27 year old. Been on the site since January. Claims she was a lesbian before this and just had sex for the first time with a man a few weeks ago!! Not sure why, but I kind of believe her. Said I'm the 3rd guy from the site she's met in person. Tried to get her to the FC but she also played the, let's meet again and see where it goes card. I was feeling horny that night as this one took place right after the failed M&G from the one above so I also played the "now or never" card. She then went into a rant about how she just didn't see this working between us because she thinks I have too much energy for her and she wouldn't be able to keep up sexually with me. Next. Total cost $8. 00 for drinks.

POT 3: 23 year old MILF. This was our second date. First time we met for a couple of drinks. Chemistry was high and she called me right after the date stating how much she looked forward to meeting. The week in between that date and this date was spent with lots of sexual innuendo over text message and her deleting the profile off the site. The day of our scheduled date #2 she flaked claiming her child was sick but we quickly rescheduled for the following day. The plan was for me to drive the 35 minutes to her, meet for drinks, and then go hang out at her place. I thought the FC was a foregone conclusion. We meet for drinks and are hitting it off, fun conversation, lots of laughs, etc. It was near blizzard like conditions out and I had a bit to drive so I believe my fatal mistake was trying to advance the date back to quickly to her place. After our second round of drinks she takes off to the bathroom. 5 minutes later her phone rings and she claims it's her friend on the other line who just got in a minor car accident so she couldn't hang out anymore. Sensing this was total BS I basically turned asshole on her with a "bartender, check please! She took off and texted back with all kinds of apologies but I basically told her I knew she was lying and wasn't going to put up with that. She got cold feet for some reason. Perhaps I didn't do a good enough job of comfort building, etc. This one is probably a lost cause but I've left the door slightly open. Total costs. $40 for drinks and apps on date #2. $20 on date #1.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Graham111;2359570]I never, ever go negative as you never know. Had one SB who decided I really was worth seeing after taking a bunch of shit and never regretted that. In real life dating ok to call them to task but I think not in the bowl.[/QUOTE]That's a good thought. As I'm going to be transitioning to real life dating over the next few months I'm trying to work on maintaining my frame, re-establishing my alpha characther, etc. However, in the bowl perhaps I need to tread a little more lightly. Play the beta provider role more. This was really the first time I've gone negative and done the "now or nothing" method and it didn't work out for me. I'm fairly confident that if I left the door open with all 3 of those I could eventually close. I just wanted action that night! .

[QUOTE=LandonR;2359575]That's a good thought. As I'm going to be transitioning to real life dating over the next few months I'm trying to work on maintaining my frame, re-establishing my alpha characther, etc. However, in the bowl perhaps I need to tread a little more lightly. Play the beta provider role more. This was really the first time I've gone negative and done the "now or nothing" method and it didn't work out for me. I'm fairly confident that if I left the door open with all 3 of those I could eventually close. I just wanted action that night! .[/QUOTE]Just another perspective -- I actually take things in the opposite direction, being a little more aggressive as an SD than I would be in most civy dating situations.

I have done exactly what you described "now or never" on more than one occasion. One was an SB that used to always drive me crazy with her schedule requirements, changing meeting times at the last minute and such. So, on two separate occasions I just said "look it seems like our schedules aren't matching up this time, I've give you a call the next time I'm in town", with the implication or attitude that there were others waiting in line behind her, without directly saying there were. In both cases she was suddenly able to move mountains to accommodate my schedule and meet me at the planned time. I got the impression she mostly just wanted to see how much she could control the situation, make me wait for her, etc. Another was a different POT that wanted to cut the date short and reschedule for the next day (but I did in fact already have a date for the next day) so I just told her straight out we close the deal tonight or it's over before it starts. She copped an attitude and it was a few bucks lost on drinks, but my date the next day was fucking phenomenal, so no regrets on how I handled it.

In fact I would say my expectations are higher as an SD than in civy dating, and my overall behavior more dominant. The way I see it, I've earned the right to be in the driver's seat. They are just starting out. Experience wins. I'm under no delusions that I'm the only SD on the planet, I know there are plenty of guys who will also be happy to fuck them, but I think the overall value of my time is much higher than theirs. In terms of comparing what each has to offer, sure they have pussy, but I've got a dick and cash and that makes the score 2 to 1. LOL.

But, all of this is because I never have any intention or expectation of long-term plans with an SB, it's all for fun. My civy dating behavior is usually different, that is if I'm seeing someone who I might actually want to "date" (I. E. Be involved with in a way that's more than sexual). I am much more likely to have a team-player mentality and treat her time as equally valuable as mine (because in this case there's no allowance involved, so we are on equal territory in my mind). If I start to see signs of immaturity or she is just generally being a pain in the ass, I might start to exert more dominance as I start to see her as someone I don't want to hang around long-term, but in civy dating I start them all out with the benefit of the doubt.

With SBs, most of them just haven't seen enough of the world for me to start them out with the benefit of the doubt, and the fact they have decided to be an SB at all starts them out in a subordinate role. Every now and then I meet an awesome SB who I discover is mature for her age or just generally a cut above average as a person, and at that point they start to earn more respect from me, but not until.

To back up a bit, to where I talked about being willing to cut them loose with the attitude that there's a long list of SBs behind them -- well there is if we think about it. The odds are in favor of the SD on these websites.

I do always try to have a backup plan whenever I have a scheduled date with an SB. I don't actually schedule another date then flake on it, but I do usually have some plan be mapped out in my mind in case she is a no show or the date goes sideways. For example I try to have a "second choice" SB lined up the same town that I might be able to call at the last minute and surprise her that I'm in town and see if she's able to meet. She may not be able to on such short notice, but having the contact number ready is a good idea. Beyond that I usually try to identify a bar that might be good for one-night stand potential, or maybe a strip club where I can hit up dancers for takeout or at least a number. The basic idea is not necessarily to have a guaranteed fuck laying in wait for plan be, just something that is still a good time and will make it not too much of a loss if the planned SB flakes out or won't go to the FC. If you don't have a backup plan, their radar can sense how bad you want them.

Sometimes the genuine willingness to walk away without really caring is what inspires them to cancel whatever else they have going on and follow you back to the FC. It's a lot like negotiating with a car salesman in that regard. Keyword there is GENUINE willingness. It's a hard thing to fake.

I take a middle of the road approach.

I don't go negative on sbs that don't go to the FC after the second date, but also let them know that if they don't give it up, they won't see me again. Two have come back with requests for a third date, problem is my time is limited, and I aleady have sbs who are willing to go to the FC who are gauranteeed to give me an amazing time who have already filled the spots of the girls that did not give it up, but who now want to. I have left things open with those girls who ate now ready to give it up, for when I need something new. Sure they may not be around when I get bored of my current rotation, but who knows?

I have not civvy dated for years, but when I was, I found that the nice guy approach left me in the friend zone. Always.

Main difference in my opinion is that in the bowl, I don't plan on marrying any of these girls. I just want to f*ck them. I am by nature a nice guy. If they want to be my SB for a few weeks then great, and if not, then I can give another girl my cash and gifts. I am always congenial and leave the door open to them to give them the chance to bang me for an allowance.

In the civvy dating world, I had to fight my nature of being a nice guy to get what I wanted. Essentially I was a d*ick to the girl I wanted to be with, and then eventually landed her. She is now my SO.

Now she has the life she always wanted and dreamed about. With the exception of having a guy who bangs sbs on the side without her knowing about it.

Funny how that works.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2359570]I never, ego negative as you never know. Had one SB who decided I really was worth seeing after taking a bunch of shit and never regretted that. In real life dating ok to call them to task but I think not in the bowl.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2359845]Funny how that works.[/QUOTE]If this thread was a book, that would be the final sentence.

And re entered the civvy dating world, I would make it clear up front I wanted someone to be with forever, who would lack for nothing, but would have to be ok with me banging random girls when I needed the strange.

Right throughout the animal kingdom, through evolution, the dominant males have mated with the most nubile and fertile females.

With the human animal having evolved to a thinking and cunning animal, that dominance includes not only control of physical resources, but also the ability to mate with as many females of the species as he can using his smarts.

I say that there is no such thing as sex addiction. We are doing exactly what evolution has programmed us to do. Mating with as many women as we can is just as much a part of our makeup as breathing.

As for civvy dating, well why not let THEM be the "just friends"? There are some really wonderful women out there my age (62), but why date them? Seek them out as friends, have a ball, but dating? That's for the younger ones, as evolution has designed.

I've tried to be a nice guy with these girls, but after dealing with thieves, liars, and fakes, my patience for dealing with some of their crap has become paper thin. As long as I feel that an arrangement or even plans for a M&G are going well, I am absolutely a very nice, understanding and generous person (much as I am in real life, outside of the sugar world). But as soon as a POT or a SB starts screwing things up, my niceness, understanding, and generosity will get very short, very quick.