"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2350851]Message 1 - send me an email.

REPLY: emails me to say hi and sends her pics (never ask for them if you can avoid it).

Message 2 - three reasons to be an SB.

REPLY: I really am looking for all three. I have always liked older guys and just need help during school too. You seem like a nice guy! What ru up to?

Message 3 - prequalify the donation amount.

REPLY: I'm not greedy. I am looking for more than just money. I think that would be fine. You seem like a sweet guy who just needs a younger girl to be with _.

Message 4 - give the donation amount.

REPLY: Ya that makes sense well I think your handsome and would love to hang out sometime.

If they reply with an outsized donation amount. Go silent or just say "Sorry babe, but you are out of my league". The honesty will be appreciated as you did not waste their time. This one is white, 18 and from a pac-12 university. About a 7 all around.[/QUOTE]I have messaged about 10 on SA who are less than half my age! Just one "not interested" reply others are silent. This is making me think if I should just give up on the young ones. Maybe they think a guy old enough to be their father / grandpa must be a pervert.

Also I am in the SouthEast and not white wonder what impact it has on SBs even considering me May be I will try some more until the SA membership expires.

[QUOTE=LandonR;2350745]When I've provided sugar to the ladies I typically wait until we are both getting dressed or she's getting ready to leave and I find her purse and just put money in it and tell her "I left you some gas / spending / shopping / grocery / etc money in your pure".

Doesn't make it as awkward.[/QUOTE]That was very helpful.

Gentleman, it's time to pack up shop and close the doors. Games over. HollywoodGuy has discovered SA. We're all done.

So I had scheduled two meet and greets today one was 20 and the other 22. Both of them canceled. The 20 year old just never called back after we both had agreed to day, time and location. The 22 year old suddenly remembered that she had to work. Don't they know that they are only wasting their own time! Stupid young kids!

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2351443]So I had scheduled two meet and greets today one was 20 and the other 22. Both of them canceled. The 20 year old just never called back after we both had agreed to day, time and location. The 22 year old suddenly remembered that she had to work. Don't they know that they are only wasting their own time! Stupid young kids![/QUOTE]I can't possibly know you or these girls. But I do know something about sales. I hear a lot on this board about girls flaking on the M&G.

There are two ways to look at any sale (and that is what we are doing here). You can sell someone something or they can buy it from you. I get flaked on maybe 2% of the time or less.

I am selling SB's on the idea of getting paid to have a meaningful experience. Or selling UTR's on the idea of having a safe experience and maybe some repeats. Or pros on the idea of having a discount session.

But rather than looking at it as you talking them into something (which is why I never negotiate or pursue anyone that is too hesitant) think of it as, it being their idea. If they haven't totally sold you on the idea that they are totally excited to meet you, then your fallout rate is going to be high.

Its not hard to get a certain percentage of people to say yes to whatever you suggest because they don't know how to say no. Especially in a situation where you are the dominant personality to begin with. Also I hate to say, but I am a flaker as well. I make way too many dates or dates with "less than girls" when I am feeling desperate, that I never go through with when I come to my senses.

This could go on forever, but I think the point is made.

As a side note. I hate being alone. And rarely have been. I have been with girls I was tired of. But I never ditch them until I have a replacement. This takes the urgency off the M&G, or the need to start up a new LTR for the wrong reason. If you are starting from zero that should only be a one time situation. When I am in a relationship I am always looking. Never stop looking. Better to have a scheduling problem than a loneliness problem.

In your how-to you indicated that your offer is $100 per date. Is this in addition to dinner etc?

What would be the amount for a date that starts & ends in a hotel room?

Just making sure that I get your post right.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2351679]I can't possibly know you or these girls. But I do know something about sales. I hear a lot on this board about girls flaking on the M&G.[/QUOTE]For the most part I'd say we should never expect an SB to be reliable. I've actually been surprised at the fact that none of my M&Gs have actually stood me up at the last minute, but being a seasonal SD, the quantity of SBs and scheduled M&Gs is certainly lower than those involved in it year-round. This is also not to say none have been flaky at all, I've had some that backed out when the expected date of M&G got closer for various reasons (family emergency supposedly but more likely a boyfriend issue or similar), I've just been fortunate in the sense that none of them flaked at the very last minute (which would really suck for a traveling SD like myself, because if you're in town for a limited time, and you've scheduled a date, if she doesn't show up it means you end up at a bar or strip club playing pot luck).

And as long as it's not at the very last minute, I wouldn't hold it against them. Hell I've flaked too, there's two sides to every story involving flaky behavior usually. I once met an POT who I was really looking forward to having some fun with, she sent lots of photos which were great, had all the indications of a great ongoing SB. Then after a while I found her on FB, and saw her recent photos and realized the pics she sent were at least 3-4 years old and she had put on a few pounds since then. So I went dark with no explanation. I felt justified in doing so -- she misled me with photos that made it look like she was in my league when in fact she was not.

So sometimes flake-outs happen randomly and without reason, but sometimes it may have been preventable. I would think most married SDs would want to reserve the right to flake out if something critical and family related came up (suspicious wife, etc). My SD seasons don't have that element of risk, but I still reserve the right to flake out if I feel the POT has misled me.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2351725]In your how-to you indicated that your offer is $100 per date. Is this in addition to dinner etc?

What would be the amount for a date that starts & ends in a hotel room?

Just making sure that I get your post right.[/QUOTE]Its a $ a date for everything. I don't do hotel rooms anymore. I did have a MILF I was seeing and paying her the $ and then having to pay for the room on top of that because she was an amazing partner. But I ended that a few months ago as I can not justify the expense anymore. I also have a girl that I only see in a room but she costs me nothing so the date ends up being $ for the gas and room. This may seem low but I am single, so if I date 20 times a month it still adds up. Also I do give gifts throughout the year and cover some unexpected expenses that are hard to deny someone you are in a LTR with. I don't really go over the $ until a girl has proven herself over a few months period. Some girls are going to cost more and I balance it out with a few that cost less.

My current ATF is coming over tonite for her 25th date in 3 months and she is spot on at $ a date so far. The sex is awesome and she takes care of her own business with no crying about this and that. So I expect she will be around for a while. Its really the bigger picture I have to look at. Last year I did 260 dates and I did end up at $.6 average (for every expense) overall due to some very generous gift giving. But the result of that was cutting loose the 2 most expensive girls I had. Both of them (my MILF of 3 years and my ATF/GF of 18 months) as they were both averaging $$ a date.

This year I plan on dating less, having longer and better sex on the dates I do have, and seeing as many $ girls as possible. SD creep is real. Get into an LTR and the expenses normally start to creep up. And LTR's is all I mostly go for. It's almost an 80/20 rule. 80% go to my regulars and 20% goes into R&D. My goal for this year would be to lower my per date average to maybe $.3 and do maybe 240 dates. That would knock about 10k off my annual budget. From everything I have read and experienced the only way to lower that would be to see less attractive girls. I have encountered many on the SD site willing to date for .5 but they are below what I need to be happy.

I have learned over time you have to run this like a business if you want to stay in business. Also I did start out paying far more, and sometimes it was awesome and sometimes it wasnt. The quality I get now is all at the awesome level or I leave very very fast. 10 dates tops is my make it or break it level. I never civi date by choice as I need as much control over my time and finances as possible. Not to mention the the age and beauty of the girls. I think we can all agree that at 60 you are not just going to go out and casually hit on 20 year olds.

So just to clarify, when I am talking about cost, it covers every single cost except gas and any emotional wear and tear.

For your purposes if it starts and ends in a hotel room it should be $ plus the cost of the room. Unless you can afford more.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2351856]Its a $ a date for everything. I don't do hotel rooms anymore. I did have a MILF I was seeing and paying her the $ and then having to pay for the room on top of that because she was an amazing partner. But I ended that a few months ago as I can not justify the expense anymore. I also have a girl that I only see in a room but she costs me nothing so the date ends up being $ for the gas and room. This may seem low but I am single, so if I date 20 times a month it still adds up. Also I do give gifts throughout the year and cover some unexpected expenses that are hard to deny someone you are in a LTR with. I don't really go over the $ until a girl has proven herself over a few months period. Some girls are going to cost more and I balance it out with a few that cost less.

My current ATF is coming over tonite for her 25th date in 3 months and she is spot on at $ a date so far. The sex is awesome and she takes care of her own business with no crying about this and that. So I expect she will be around for a while. Its really the bigger picture I have to look at. Last year I did 260 dates and I did end up at $.6 average (for every expense) overall due to some very generous gift giving. But the result of that was cutting loose the 2 most expensive girls I had. Both of them (my MILF of 3 years and my ATF/GF of 18 months) as they were both averaging $$ a date.

This year I plan on dating less, having longer and better sex on the dates I do have, and seeing as many $ girls as possible. SD creep is real. Get into an LTR and the expenses normally start to creep up. And LTR's is all I mostly go for. It's almost an 80/20 rule. 80% go to my regulars and 20% goes into R&D. My goal for this year would be to lower my per date average to maybe $.3 and do maybe 240 dates. That would knock about 10k off my annual budget. From everything I have read and experienced the only way to lower that would be to see less attractive girls. I have encountered many on the SD site willing to date for .5 but they are below what I need to be happy.

I have learned over time you have to run this like a business if you want to stay in business. Also I did start out paying far more, and sometimes it was awesome and sometimes it wasnt. The quality I get now is all at the awesome level or I leave very very fast. 10 dates tops is my make it or break it level. I never civi date by choice as I need as much control over my time and finances as possible. Not to mention the the age and beauty of the girls. I think we can all agree that at 60 you are not just going to go out and casually hit on 20 year olds.

So just to clarify, when I am talking about cost, it covers every single cost except gas and any emotional wear and tear.

For your purposes if it starts and ends in a hotel room it should be $ plus the cost of the room. Unless you can afford more.[/QUOTE]You have been very patient and generous with your time on this forum. This was post was very helpful as I was not considering the complete long term picture.

Just curious what made you switch to SA from SD4 ME?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2352274]You have been very patient and generous with your time on this forum. This was post was very helpful as I was not considering the complete long term picture.

Just curious what made you switch to SA from SD4 ME?[/QUOTE]I didn't switch. I am now on both. So far SA looks to be more upscale as far as the quality of the girls. I don't see any difference in the expectations. In fact I would say it might be easier to get girls for $ on SA than SD4 M as the girls seem less financially needy. There seem to be more balanced or regular girls on SA. Less tattoos and single moms, more college students and suburban black girls. I am using two different approaches. Its just a test and I am a little bored with SD4 M. I am definitely getting more traction with white and latina girls so far on SA then SD4 M and I see a lot more middle class AA girls on SA. More of what some people call "white washed" AA types. I live in the city and usually prefer city girls to suburban girls, but I am more concerned with body type and that has nothing to do with socio-economic status or geographic location.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2351443]So I had scheduled two meet and greets today one was 20 and the other 22. Both of them canceled. The 20 year old just never called back after we both had agreed to day, time and location. The 22 year old suddenly remembered that she had to work. Don't they know that they are only wasting their own time! Stupid young kids![/QUOTE]This may have been mentioned earlier in the thread I don't know, but has anyone had the girl show up and not be the girl from the photos? Anyone have the girl show up and NOT be the girl from the profile? This has happened to me twice this go round on SA. The first one was good 50 lbs heavier than the girl pictured (I only like slender / athletic girls). Nice enough, and a definite non pro, but definitely not my type. The second one was partially my fault, as I've taken to image searching every girl I take an interest in. For some unknown reason I didn't do it with this girl, who appeared to have a body to die for. The girl that showed up was actually one of the most fun to talk to that I've met from there, but covered head to toe in tats and piercings, and not nearly close to the body pictured. Definitely not my type. When I searched the pics when I got home, they were of a semi internet famous fitness model LOL.

I also had two girls flake on me this weekend, one 19, the other 18. I have yet to meet a girl under 20, although several have agreed to meet. Every one has flaked. I guess it's one thing for a middle class 18 yr old to agree to fuck a 50 something thru text messages, and another to actually do it. I also suspect more than one of those were fake accounts.

I've got two more in the pipeline that agreed to meet using hollywood guy's approach, one 19, the other 20. Neither one was available to meet this weekend, so we'll see how that goes.

I have pretty much been using my 4 step approach and have gotten 5 POTS off of SA with it. These are confirmed $ dates. I haven't been able to snag any primo looking girls yet except one.

18 AA petite and about an 8. She lives kinda far in the mostly white suburbs. She seemed pretty cool. But its mostly based on looks. No FC except mine to go to. Which means she would have to train it for date 2 if there was one.

18 white slender college student about a 7. Seemed interested but didn't really feel the vibe. Very plain but slender. Its a maybe if I follow through.

19 latina who got impatient with all 4 steps, about a 8+. LOL. She just wanted to hook up asap. Probably UTR. Very pretty but kinda too far and no FC to go to. Would have to get a room which is not on my agenda.

19 AA amazingly has her own house thanks to a family situation, about a 7 but petite. Seemed very cool but paranoid. Never dated a white guy. Was afraid of popo on the internet. May see her tonite or tomorrow. But no rush. She is solid.

24 latina, average looking about a 6 with a better body (I hope). She is high on my list as she is verbally very submissive. Wants me to teach her to be a good girl for daddy. Txts me daily hoping to get lucky.

I have slacked off on SD4M. But have two confirmed $ dates.

A 26 AA college student / model, about a 9 for a coffee. Kind of aloof. But a hot working model, can't pass that up. And close by.

And a hot to trot 19 AA, about an 8 that acts UTR but I think she is just horny. She is really pushing hard for a meet. Good personality, nice body.

These are all from about a week of prospecting. So far on SA I have only made it through the 18 and 19 year olds. And I also targeted all the GPS girls in my larger demographic. Any age, AA, slim and pretty. No luck there yet.

January had me sticking 90% with my regulars plus 2 dates with a pro due to a discount rate of $ for BBFS and BBBJ.

Overall average for January was $.7 per date, no money went to rooms but I did some post Christmas gift giving. I expect that to drop to $.3 in February.

I think almost everyone on this thread is on SA. I can say I see a big difference between SA and SD4 M. Totally different girls, more college girls, and the girls respond in much bigger numbers. I am only working the 18 and 19 year olds for now, but I can see it would take a while to burn through those and the any age slim AA and mixed girls. Those are my 4 saved searches. I still have not gone on any M&G's due to no time. A quality problem for sure.

Happy to hear that things are going well for you HWG. More happy the you to not play in my playground - otherwise my nights would probably be spent being lonely or listening to my SO's next dinner recipe...

My experience has been similar to yours regarding SA. Haven't used any other sites yet, but mainly because I haven't had a need to.

Good luck to all the players in the bowl, male and female alike. May everyone's needs be met!

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2353943]I think almost everyone on this thread is on SA. I can say I see a big difference between SA and SD4 M. Totally different girls, more college girls, and the girls respond in much bigger numbers. I am only working the 18 and 19 year olds for now, but I can see it would take a while to burn through those and the any age slim AA and mixed girls. Those are my 4 saved searches. I still have not gone on any M&G's due to no time. A quality problem for sure.[/QUOTE]

Someone help me out not new but what is SA? Have not been on here much lately do to moving out of state.