Philly Sugar

The awkward phrasing on the profile was the first read flag. It messaged me asking for my Whatsapp was the next. Scammer.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/93f4041a-4169-49b5-a7ae-1ca872af0edc[/URL]

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6538433]The awkward phrasing on the profile was the first read flag. It messaged me asking for my Whatsapp was the next. Scammer.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/93f4041a-4169-49b5-a7ae-1ca872af0edc[/URL][/QUOTE]Ok, I guess I am totally out to lunch here? How does asking for one's Whatsapp constitute a red flag or indicate a scammer? What am I missing?

Seem like it would be ideal to get a girl off site so one could discuss things, whereas certain discussions on the site (sugar) will get you banned.

So is there something new going on?

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;6538514]Ok, I guess I am totally out to lunch here? How does asking for one's Whatsapp constitute a red flag or indicate a scammer? What am I missing?

Seem like it would be ideal to get a girl off site so one could discuss things, whereas certain discussions on the site (sugar) will get you banned.

So is there something new going on?[/QUOTE]I don't think asking for a whatsapp is necessarily a red flag either. Maybe he meant she asked for it too fast, and it feels like a setup? Most SBs I feel like want to exchange at least a handful of messages before moving off site. If she's asking to move offsite in the first or second message, it means she's experienced, trying to have quick turnarounds with people in some manner, and wants to discuss something that will get her banned off the site. None are red flags alone, but could be when combined with another.

[QUOTE=RubberDuckyBoston;6538573]I don't think asking for a whatsapp is necessarily a red flag either. Maybe he meant she asked for it too fast, and it feels like a setup? Most SBs I feel like want to exchange at least a handful of messages before moving off site. If she's asking to move offsite in the first or second message, it means she's experienced, trying to have quick turnarounds with people in some manner, and wants to discuss something that will get her banned off the site. None are red flags alone, but could be when combined with another.[/QUOTE]I most certainly view Whatsapp as a red flag. It's the the #1 communication tool used by international scammers and isn't as secure as other communication platforms. If a woman has a phone she can use google voice pretty easily. If she doesn't have a phone, well that's another red flag!

Has anyone seen this young lady. She strikes me as TGTBT but I sent her a message and it seemed like she wanted to meet the same day. That kind of hits me like a pro. I'll see how the communication continues.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/f6f595e1-28cc-4b42-a8a9-7e0d7359b6ee[/URL]

I'm also chatting to this one who gave up her number pretty quickly. NJ area code. Has anyone seen her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/6f11851a-3c4e-411e-bd66-ed821c2ed381[/URL]

[QUOTE=RubberDuckyBoston;6538573]I don't think asking for a whatsapp is necessarily a red flag either. Maybe he meant she asked for it too fast, and it feels like a setup? Most SBs I feel like want to exchange at least a handful of messages before moving off site. If she's asking to move offsite in the first or second message, it means she's experienced, trying to have quick turnarounds with people in some manner, and wants to discuss something that will get her banned off the site. None are red flags alone, but could be when combined with another.[/QUOTE]I agree with HenryT458 on this one. Although, it isn't always the case, Whatsapp is known to be used by scammers. A vast majority of young women on the site are iPhone people and they are happy to use Messenger. And the wording of the profile does sound like a standard ESL scam profile. I see these all the time on Tinder.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538810]I'm also chatting to this one who gave up her number pretty quickly. NJ area code. Has anyone seen her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/6f11851a-3c4e-411e-bd66-ed821c2ed381[/URL][/QUOTE]I chatted with her. When she sent me pics they seemed like they are photoshoped. Second she wanted some large amount. 5 $ or more. I blocked her. Let us know the deal.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538810]I'm also chatting to this one who gave up her number pretty quickly. NJ area code. Has anyone seen her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/6f11851a-3c4e-411e-bd66-ed821c2ed381[/URL][/QUOTE]Profile screams fake to me.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538793]I most certainly view Whatsapp as a red flag. It's the the #1 communication tool used by international scammers and isn't as secure as other communication platforms. If a woman has a phone she can use google voice pretty easily. If she doesn't have a phone, well that's another red flag![/QUOTE]In my friendgroup and age bracket (lets say 30-45), I have yet to meet a single person that doesn't have whatsapp since pre-pandemic. Maybe it is used a lot for scams, but it is also ubiquitous among normal people as well, and a completely normal means of communication.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538802]Has anyone seen this young lady. She strikes me as TGTBT but I sent her a message and it seemed like she wanted to meet the same day. That kind of hits me like a pro. I'll see how the communication continues.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/f6f595e1-28cc-4b42-a8a9-7e0d7359b6ee[/URL][/QUOTE]She is a real person, she really is 23 and she is from South Jersey. I'm not going into many details, but I used to date one of her sisters,(all of them are hot). I'm just shocked the baby is on SA.

She knows she is hot, and she loves the finer things, money driven.

[QUOTE=RubberDuckyBoston;6539095]In my friendgroup and age bracket (lets say 30-45), I have yet to meet a single person that doesn't have whatsapp since pre-pandemic. Maybe it is used a lot for scams, but it is also ubiquitous among normal people as well, and a completely normal means of communication.[/QUOTE]I have it and use it too. It's great when traveling internationally with people who want to limit their use of roaming through their provider or when you are traveling with people who live in countries other than the USA That said, there is absolutely no reason for someone to only use Whatsapp to communicate with other people in the USA If they are based in the USA And have a phone. Just use Google voice!

[QUOTE=JDRedBull;6539036]I chatted with her. When she sent me pics they seemed like they are photoshoped. Second she wanted some large amount. 5 $ or more. I blocked her. Let us know the deal.[/QUOTE]Like other have said it may be a fake profile. I've already pulled my pictures back since I haven't gotten a response from the number that she sent me. She unlocked her pictures pretty quickly and none of them showed me anything that I would pay over 250 for! I guess it's on to the next!

[QUOTE=Gentleman007;6539170]She is a real person, she really is 23 and she is from South Jersey. I'm not going into many details, but I used to date one of her sisters,(all of them are hot). I'm just shocked the baby is on SA.

She knows she is hot, and she loves the finer things, money driven.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. That's enough for me to want to keep this one live to see where it goes!

I took one for the team but in a good way! I usually subscribe to the idea that It's not my job to hold prices down for anyone but I have limits and rules!

My 1st rule is never pay for a M&G. I do pretty good ones! I will pay for transportation if needed but if I'm asked to pay for the honor of watching a woman eat food that I'm paying for I decline. It's always worked for me.

So I had someone tell me that her ppm was over 500 which I've never paid but I just assumed that it was negotiable. While trying to plan a M&G, I was informed that she usually gets $100 for that. I told her that I never pay for M&G and that I do really good ones so let's just pick a date. We picked a date, she needed an Uber to the $$ restaurant, so I scheduled on in advance from the location provided. 30 minutes before the M&G she said that she'd need confirmation that she was being paid for it. I explained that I don't do that so we went back and forth and settled on her showing up and showing why she was worth it. It I didn't pay she said that I'd never see her again. I said fine. Five minutes later she changed her mind and said again that she would only show up if I said I would pay her. I stupidly said that we should split the difference. While this is going on her scheduled Uber was arriving and only going to wait 5 minutes. She said $50 on arrival and $50 if I ever wanted to see her again. That's not spitting the difference or negotiating in any way. By this time I had arrived at the restaurant and ordered a drink. I looked at her message and watched the Uber clock count down, resolved that I was saving myself trouble and $100. About 5 minutes after her Uber left she sent me a picture just in case I changed my mind! I sent her a picture of the 1st course of a delicious meal!

I'm still negotiating or trying to teach her how it's actually done so I won't throw her profile out just yet but any contributing Seniors can PM me if they're interested. Not budging on going anywhere near 500 for this unknown performer with no skills of negotiating!

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538810]I'm also chatting to this one who gave up her number pretty quickly. NJ area code. Has anyone seen her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/6f11851a-3c4e-411e-bd66-ed821c2ed381[/URL][/QUOTE]She can only meet in the evening. She's real. I'm sure her ask will be high but not outrageous.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6538802]Has anyone seen this young lady. She strikes me as TGTBT but I sent her a message and it seemed like she wanted to meet the same day. That kind of hits me like a pro. I'll see how the communication continues.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/f6f595e1-28cc-4b42-a8a9-7e0d7359b6ee[/URL][/QUOTE]I have 2 friends who have met her. She's a rush job. That happened with both of them. In and out in 45 minutes max. Complains about being sore. Just not a good experience. Neither repeated. She's all about the money. Doesn't want any connection.

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6539858]I have 2 friends who have met her. She's a rush job. That happened with both of them. In and out in 45 minutes max. Complains about being sore. Just not a good experience. Neither repeated. She's all about the money. Doesn't want any connection.[/QUOTE]I should think with the big head on this one! Thanks for the intel. I'm guessing that she asked a pretty penny for those 45 minutes visits. I've been there done that and don't want to do it again!

From the vigorous debate below, I am glad to see so many guys thinking about DD and looking for red flags!

Maybe with experience I have come to a place where at some point the "analysis" is over and it's time to do some face-to-face interaction / investigation.

Then again, when a girl is intransigent, I usually move on. Sure, I [I]might[/I] work with a girl a bit IF I have met her and it's something special, but I quit trying to change girls or mold them to my ways: either they are amenable or not (time to move on). Too many fish in the sea. For me, the one that is an excellent match will emerge.

But again, keep doing DD and M&Gs!

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6539626]I took one for the team but in a good way! I usually subscribe to the idea that It's not my job to hold prices down for anyone but I have limits and rules!

My 1st rule is never pay for a M&G. I do pretty good ones! I will pay for transportation if needed but if I'm asked to pay for the honor of watching a woman eat food that I'm paying for I decline. It's always worked for me.

So I had someone tell me that her ppm was over 500 which I've never paid but I just assumed that it was negotiable. While trying to plan a M&G, I was informed that she usually gets $100 for that. I told her that I never pay for M&G and that I do really good ones so let's just pick a date. We picked a date, she needed an Uber to the $$ restaurant, so I scheduled on in advance from the location provided. 30 minutes before the M&G she said that she'd need confirmation that she was being paid for it. I explained that I don't do that so we went back and forth and settled on her showing up and showing why she was worth it. It I didn't pay she said that I'd never see her again. I said fine. Five minutes later she changed her mind and said again that she would only show up if I said I would pay her. I stupidly said that we should split the difference. While this is going on her scheduled Uber was arriving and only going to wait 5 minutes. She said $50 on arrival and $50 if I ever wanted to see her again. That's not spitting the difference or negotiating in any way. By this time I had arrived at the restaurant and ordered a drink. I looked at her message and watched the Uber clock count down, resolved that I was saving myself trouble and $100. About 5 minutes after her Uber left she sent me a picture just in case I changed my mind! I sent her a picture of the 1st course of a delicious meal!

I'm still negotiating or trying to teach her how it's actually done so I won't throw her profile out just yet but any contributing Seniors can PM me if they're interested. Not budging on going anywhere near 500 for this unknown performer with no skills of negotiating![/QUOTE]Seems like its not worth the time or effort to me. She's trying to squeeze you for every last dime already, I don't know about you, but I can't really enjoy SB meetups if I'm always having to put walls up to stop her from trying to nickel and dime me every second. Its only going to get worse as time goes on. I don't think they'll listen to you trying to "teach" them, to her, you are probably the "splenda daddy" that other women on random internet forums have warned her about. I don't personally think that's the case but that's the mindset a lot of these women have going into this so she's going to have defense mechanisms in place already to block out anything you're saying.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6539612]I have it and use it too. It's great when traveling internationally with people who want to limit their use of roaming through their provider or when you are traveling with people who live in countries other than the USA That said, there is absolutely no reason for someone to only use Whatsapp to communicate with other people in the USA If they are based in the USA And have a phone. Just use Google voice![/QUOTE]It is used a ton if you're part of lots of various social groups and circles. For example I am currently a part of 3-4 whatsapp groups for various hobbies like rock climbing. I have 3-4 for separate highschool and college friendgroups. Anytime someone wants to plan an event with a bunch of people, oftentimes its done on whatsapp.

Also if you're exchanging info with someone you just met, its often easier to just ask them to scan your whatsapp profile QR code in a loud environment, than to try to trade social media and other contact info.

It is extremely common to use IMO, and therefore not necessarily a red flag.

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6539858]I have 2 friends who have met her. She's a rush job. That happened with both of them. In and out in 45 minutes max. Complains about being sore. Just not a good experience. Neither repeated. She's all about the money. Doesn't want any connection.[/QUOTE]LOL. I wonder if either of those guys even got to nut or if she didn't let them finish LOL.

Also I have a feeling that if you meet her in person she's going to look busted. Pictures can sometimes be very deceiving.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6539626]I took one for the team but in a good way! I usually subscribe to the idea that It's not my job to hold prices down for anyone but I have limits and rules!

My 1st rule is never pay for a M&G. I do pretty good ones! I will pay for transportation if needed but if I'm asked to pay for the honor of watching a woman eat food that I'm paying for I decline. It's always worked for me.

So I had someone tell me that her ppm was over 500 which I've never paid but I just assumed that it was negotiable. While trying to plan a M&G, I was informed that she usually gets $100 for that. I told her that I never pay for M&G and that I do really good ones so let's just pick a date. We picked a date, she needed an Uber to the $$ restaurant, so I scheduled on in advance from the location provided. 30 minutes before the M&G she said that she'd need confirmation that she was being paid for it. I explained that I don't do that so we went back and forth and settled on her showing up and showing why she was worth it. It I didn't pay she said that I'd never see her again. I said fine. Five minutes later she changed her mind and said again that she would only show up if I said I would pay her. I stupidly said that we should split the difference. While this is going on her scheduled Uber was arriving and only going to wait 5 minutes. She said $50 on arrival and $50 if I ever wanted to see her again. That's not spitting the difference or negotiating in any way. By this time I had arrived at the restaurant and ordered a drink. I looked at her message and watched the Uber clock count down, resolved that I was saving myself trouble and $100. About 5 minutes after her Uber left she sent me a picture just in case I changed my mind! I sent her a picture of the 1st course of a delicious meal!

I'm still negotiating or trying to teach her how it's actually done so I won't throw her profile out just yet but any contributing Seniors can PM me if they're interested. Not budging on going anywhere near 500 for this unknown performer with no skills of negotiating![/QUOTE]This reminds me of times I was super desperate and would push for meets with girls no matter LOL.

It's not a good position to be in to be honest, because you're extremely vulnerable.

For example, one time I was in such a terrible rut. The last 4 girls I made plans with flaked on me, I haven't gotten laid in a while, all the girls I've been texting have been going cold, etc.

So yeah, just all around desperation and just wanting to get that fuck session under my belt so I could move on. At that time, I agreed to the highest PPM I've ever paid, I gave it to a girl that was basically hard lining me LOL. She was the only girl responding to my messages but she made it very clear that she would not meet for anything lower than a certain PPM. I remember I went back and forth with her soooo much over text. Was trying to get a lower price as best as I possibly could, but she would not budge at all. So I just gave in and agreed to the higher PPM. Once I did that, she allowed me to come over, and finally I was able to fuck LOL.

It's a really vulnerable position. For your situation I would've stopped responding to her when she said she gets paid for the m&g. I can understand though if you were in a vulnerable position and were willing to take anything. It's tricky though because until you get what you want, which in my case was that fuck session and orgasm at the end, you may continue to engage in more crappy deals. Whereas the right thing to do would be to acknowledge that at this point in time you're not going to be getting laid or going on m&gs so best to not focus on it much.

[QUOTE=RubberDuckyBoston;6540056]It is used a ton if you're part of lots of various social groups and circles. For example I am currently a part of 3-4 whatsapp groups for various hobbies like rock climbing. I have 3-4 for separate highschool and college friendgroups. Anytime someone wants to plan an event with a bunch of people, oftentimes its done on whatsapp.

Also if you're exchanging info with someone you just met, its often easier to just ask them to scan your whatsapp profile QR code in a loud environment, than to try to trade social media and other contact info.

It is extremely common to use IMO, and therefore not necessarily a red flag.[/QUOTE]I agree with everything you said and I use it for all those casual uses but I don't use it with people that I only know from a website and especially people from SA. Whatsapp is perfect for international scammers on SA. How many women have offered their Whatsapp to you on SA and how many of them did you actually meet in person? I'm just relying on my experience on SA. Very few have offered a Whatsapps and I have met zero! If it has some wonderful utility for use on SA I'm open to learning.

[QUOTE=RubberDuckyBoston;6540052]Seems like its not worth the time or effort to me. She's trying to squeeze you for every last dime already, I don't know about you, but I can't really enjoy SB meetups if I'm always having to put walls up to stop her from trying to nickel and dime me every second. Its only going to get worse as time goes on. I don't think they'll listen to you trying to "teach" them, to her, you are probably the "splenda daddy" that other women on random internet forums have warned her about. I don't personally think that's the case but that's the mindset a lot of these women have going into this so she's going to have defense mechanisms in place already to block out anything you're saying.[/QUOTE]It does seem like she's following the reddit board script and I do doubt her ability to learn from me but maybe the next guy will have an easier time or she'll just move to escorting which she might be better at! She has kept engaging and displays both confidence and insecurity! She's one of those can't drive, can't host so when all is said and done meeting her may cost $100-$300 more than the sticker price!

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/fddbcb0c-8233-47a6-b748-c8d8d6df29fe[/URL]

Reached out to me after going dark for a bit. Claims she's moving in a couple weeks so likely wants to move straight to a paid date. Her profile is verified and I found her social media as well. Even so, I always do a MG first unless a fellow monger has seen her. Anyone have any interaction with her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/dc669794-bf46-4f9d-94d0-51585fabb0d8[/URL]

I met this one back in November when she was using different pics. I'm guessing she had enough failed MGs to start using a more representative pic or two. Pics on there now are more representative (a few glammed up of course but a couple not) I took a pass given the added weight vs. Original pics and other gals I had in the pipeline. She can hold a conversation but has plenty of personal baggage. I'm a complete stranger and I heard all about her life (not sob story stuff looking for money). Anyway, I shared some intel with a personal monger friend of mine. He's seen her several times and quite enjoys himself. She initially asked me for 500 but will take less. If you're into thick girls with big boobs she might be worth a try.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6539626]I took one for the team but in a good way! I usually subscribe to the idea that It's not my job to hold prices down for anyone but I have limits and rules!

My 1st rule is never pay for a M&G. I do pretty good ones! I will pay for transportation if needed but if I'm asked to pay for the honor of watching a woman eat food that I'm paying for I decline. It's always worked for me.

So I had someone tell me that her ppm was over 500 which I've never paid but I just assumed that it was negotiable. While trying to plan a M&G, I was informed that she usually gets $100 for that. I told her that I never pay for M&G and that I do really good ones so let's just pick a date. We picked a date, she needed an Uber to the $$ restaurant, so I scheduled on in advance from the location provided. 30 minutes before the M&G she said that she'd need confirmation that she was being paid for it. I explained that I don't do that so we went back and forth and settled on her showing up and showing why she was worth it. It I didn't pay she said that I'd never see her again. I said fine. Five minutes later she changed her mind and said again that she would only show up if I said I would pay her. I stupidly said that we should split the difference. While this is going on her scheduled Uber was arriving and only going to wait 5 minutes. She said $50 on arrival and $50 if I ever wanted to see her again. That's not spitting the difference or negotiating in any way. By this time I had arrived at the restaurant and ordered a drink. I looked at her message and watched the Uber clock count down, resolved that I was saving myself trouble and $100. About 5 minutes after her Uber left she sent me a picture just in case I changed my mind! I sent her a picture of the 1st course of a delicious meal!

I'm still negotiating or trying to teach her how it's actually done so I won't throw her profile out just yet but any contributing Seniors can PM me if they're interested. Not budging on going anywhere near 500 for this unknown performer with no skills of negotiating![/QUOTE]Who are you even referring to? There's no pic or link.

[QUOTE=KCesar68;6540667]Who are you even referring to? There's no pic or link.[/QUOTE]That was intentional as I stated at the end.

[QUOTE=Joadt;6540217][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/dc669794-bf46-4f9d-94d0-51585fabb0d8[/URL]

I met this one back in November when she was using different pics. I'm guessing she had enough failed MGs to start using a more representative pic or two. Pics on there now are more representative (a few glammed up of course but a couple not) I took a pass given the added weight vs. Original pics and other gals I had in the pipeline. She can hold a conversation but has plenty of personal baggage. I'm a complete stranger and I heard all about her life (not sob story stuff looking for money). Anyway, I shared some intel with a personal monger friend of mine. He's seen her several times and quite enjoys himself. She initially asked me for 500 but will take less. If you're into thick girls with big boobs she might be worth a try.[/QUOTE]No way that's worth 500,400, or 300.

[QUOTE=Joadt;6540197][URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/fddbcb0c-8233-47a6-b748-c8d8d6df29fe[/URL]

Reached out to me after going dark for a bit. Claims she's moving in a couple weeks so likely wants to move straight to a paid date. Her profile is verified and I found her social media as well. Even so, I always do a MG first unless a fellow monger has seen her. Anyone have any interaction with her?[/QUOTE]Try her out. Looks thick, might be able to clap her butt cheeks.

I recommend setting up a public meet like a coffee or bar and heading to her place or your place afterward. If she seems escort-like then obviously screen out.

She's been on the site for 3 years. Never responded to me nor viewed my profile. I'm just curious. Is she real? One of you gents must have met her by now.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/b63b27b7-b96b-4a81-8536-83dc3f8a7bdd[/URL]

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/947f4e5e-51ca-4074-b902-c9c099043b51[/URL]

Any intel? I've messaged her a few times over different subs. She texted me today. I get a SA reg / pro vibe. Anyone meet her?

Here it is. Try it.

VWO20 Exp.

Any information on this one?

This girl is looking for 600 per meet and won't do oral. She won't share a face pic.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/4eb4d0ec-d8b5-45e8-9888-cdf12d35bc08[/URL]

[QUOTE=SteveStone123;6545668]This girl is looking for 600 per meet and won't do oral. She won't share a face pic.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/4eb4d0ec-d8b5-45e8-9888-cdf12d35bc08[/URL][/QUOTE]She sounds like fun / s NEXT.

[QUOTE=Tribeca67;6545629]Any information on this one?[/QUOTE]The Hot Chick Ploy. She believes her beauty is enough to get her paid. With her profile mentioning online preferred and listing a Platonic tag there is a high probability she doesn't want to touch an old man. However, IF you look like George Clooney and offer her a high allowance you likely still have a shot. I don't qualify on either requirement.

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6546161]The Hot Chick Ploy. She believes her beauty is enough to get her paid. With her profile mentioning online preferred and listing a Platonic tag there is a high probability she doesn't want to touch an old man. However, IF you look like George Clooney and offer her a high allowance you likely still have a shot. I don't qualify on either requirement.[/QUOTE]I like how girls on SA can mention online and get away with it. But we mention ppm or something by accident we get banned LOL.

Also anything on this one??

[QUOTE=Tribeca67;6546757]Also anything on this one??[/QUOTE]Hot and real. Kid. Wants $750. Not worth it. She's from NE.

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6284055]This one is back on the site. Any gents have luck with her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/ef69a7e9-240c-421e-a4f8-4a8861afc196[/URL][/QUOTE]A friend of mine met her. She lives out in the country in Lancaster county. Comes to Philly twice a month. So only wants to meet twice a month. Usually on a Friday. Wanted 1,200 ppm but settled for 1,000. She is beautiful, intelligent with an engaging personality, and fun in the bedroom. He didn't repeat as it's just not a competitive pricing ask. There are equally beautiful ladies who desire a more reasonable allowance.

I'm sure she will get what she's asking from another dude. It's unlikely to be consistent unless he falls in love with her.