"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=EscortReview89;5896007]So I've been seeing this one SB for a while now and she started to add a lot of rules. We went from BBBJ to CBJ, and just limiting other activates while asking for money for "medical help for a procedure" which leads me to to think of one thing that involves BBFS / CIP or I might be overthinking it. Her seeking profile for reference, I know a few here have written about her, and I have as well. I can't help but think I might be getting played, has anyone else had this happen with a SB. Is she doing these same rules with others or am I getting the short end of the arrangement.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/992c9ab1-c412-4dc1-9628-0ac3f96f53dc[/URL][/QUOTE]

Specifically regarding the move from BBBJ to CBJ? IMHO she has another SD or BF and doesn't want to be spreading contagion and be blamed for it

In general, when a SB starts adding rules, she is making a move to control the situation because she thinks she can. You need to shut that down in a hurry. It will ultimately lead to a request for money (as your situation did), either for something real or just as an excuse to get more money. I had a SB once who asked for a "loan" to get her brother bailed out of jail. I knew I would never see her or that money ever again, or it would be the start of more requests, like I was her personal piggy bank. When I politely refused, she ghosted me forever after, proving my suspicion. She was thinking about leaving me anyway and wanted a going away present.

Women are very good at getting money from men: SBs, GFs whatever. If you are with a woman long enough she will be hinting after your wallet in some way or another: for gifts, favors or actual cash, especially if they think you have money to spread around, which SDs usually give their SBs the impression that they do. When that happens it is either time to be a sap or to pull in the reins and / or pull the plug. No matter how sweet and wonderful and sexually satisfying a SB is, there are plenty more where she came from.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5893932]From what I'm hearing the cost of pussy has gotten a bit out of hand and could be due for a market correction.

Seriously though, I have a feeling it would be a good thing for the lifestyle, at least for the SDs in relatively recession-proof line of work, and even then it would likely impact the babies way more than daddies.[/QUOTE]A recession hurts people who work for a living, not those who are independently wealthy. A SB is the former; a SD is the latter (usually). Wealth is unlikely to be affected much by a recession and the price of pussy is also relatively unaffected, since it is a luxury good. Pussy, like any luxury, is worth what SDs will pay for it. If enough SDs pay a given price, well that's what the pussy is worth. If enough SDs refuse to pay that price, the price will come down. It is basic economics: supply and demand. People once paid enormous prices for tulip bulbs (the first bubble) until they didn't, and the prices came crashing down. Sooner or later a price finds a level that is rational.

Me? I am a value buyer. I look for the best for the least. I have control because I have the dough. I am patient. I make no impulse purchases. I know my market well and what pussy trades for in it. GPS? No thank you. I don't pay extra for the label; a knock-off will do just fine.

[QUOTE=EscortReview89;5896007]So I've been seeing this one SB for a while now and she started to add a lot of rules. We went from BBBJ to CBJ, and just limiting other activates while asking for money for "medical help for a procedure" which leads me to to think of one thing that involves BBFS / CIP or I might be overthinking it. Her seeking profile for reference, I know a few here have written about her, and I have as well. I can't help but think I might be getting played, has anyone else had this happen with a SB. Is she doing these same rules with others or am I getting the short end of the arrangement.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/992c9ab1-c412-4dc1-9628-0ac3f96f53dc[/URL][/QUOTE]I think this is a clear case of "If you have to ask, you already know the answer. ".

BAM.

I get all that, I'm now more interested in if she was ever a BBFS provider, or if anyone else happened to have these issues with her. Might need to cut this one loose, it was a fun time while it lasted.

[QUOTE=BamBam;5896953]I think this is a clear case of "If you have to ask, you already know the answer. ".

BAM.[/QUOTE]Get rid of her she is acting up on you. And she's not even that cute. I had this asian who is fine on the site and she is like two hours away. To drive to me she wanted $80 dollars I'm like what guys are paying these chicks $80 before even meeting them. Or maybe that's what I should be doing but I refuse to do it. I offered to pay her gas in full when we meet even if we don't work out and she insisted on the $80 talking about guys have screwed her before.

[QUOTE=ThatSexyGuy;5897224]Get rid of her she is acting up on you. And she's not even that cute. I had this asian who is fine on the site and she is like two hours away. To drive to me she wanted $80 dollars I'm like what guys are paying these chicks $80 before even meeting them. Or maybe that's what I should be doing but I refuse to do it. I offered to pay her gas in full when we meet even if we don't work out and she insisted on the $80 talking about guys have screwed her before.[/QUOTE]WOW! A dude who isn't a pushover and a wimp! LOL! Kudos. The reason she does that money upfront stuff is there are plenty of Simps out there that fall for that stuff. They don't know what they don't know, think this is as easy as ordering a pizza on an app and are destined to learn "experientially!

As far as guys screwing her before goes, I get that. She has some risks. I offer to show her I have the money as soon as we meet, but it goes back in the pocket until the date is done. Ran into a real scammer some time ago and she tried, with like a mile of texts, to get $ upfront. Girls will say anything. All of it sounds plausible, logical and rational. But in the long run it isn't. The more or longer a girl argues for the $ upfront, the more convinced a dude should be that it is a scam. It is easier to make up excuses or reasons for the upfront payment than to flatback for the funds.

So yeah, if more guys "got a clue" and didn't fall for this stuff, it would go away. But the only guy watching out for you is the dude staring back at you in the mirror!

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5896917]A recession hurts people who work for a living, not those who are independently wealthy. A SB is the former; a SD is the latter (usually). Wealth is unlikely to be affected much by a recession and the price of pussy is also relatively unaffected, since it is a luxury good. Pussy, like any luxury, is worth what SDs will pay for it. If enough SDs pay a given price, well that's what the pussy is worth. If enough SDs refuse to pay that price, the price will come down. It is basic economics: supply and demand. People once paid enormous prices for tulip bulbs (the first bubble) until they didn't, and the prices came crashing down. Sooner or later a price finds a level that is rational.
[/QUOTE]There are a few different schools of thought on this and I'm always interested in other's thoughts. In the study of economics, luxury items have extremely high price elasticity, meaning demand for them drops substantially during economically lean times. Examples of expenditures on elastic goods and services are vacations, jewelry, luxury cars. Examples of inelastic expenditures are paying rent and groceries, gas, repairs on existing cars, etc.

As you pointed out, pussy is a luxury. But just like luxury cars, jewelry and other items, often is purchased by those who can afford to indulge enough to "get the taste of luxury". Mercedes Benz, BMW, and similar brands are considered luxury, but there is a reason they choose to put some of their luxury goods within the purchasing range of the middle class and a reason we see so many of them on the road (not just the "1% That is because they know that the fact they can sell an occasional six-figure car in one economy doesn't mean they will still be able to a few months later, and overall they will be able to weather storms better if they know how to produce more units of cars that can be sold at some reasonable volume rather than a few units of mega-priced vehicles.

Personally I don't think most SDs are in the 1%, and are not independently wealthy by the pure definition, at least that's been my impression from the stories I hear from the girls I've known. They are more likely to be six-figure+ earning working men, and their spending power (and even employment opportunities) would be impacted by a deep recession, WWIII, or similar. At the same time low-wage job opportunities (restaurant servers etc) would tend to become more sparse. Company layoffs and so forth tend to have a fear-inducing affect that reduces consumer confidence, and I believe such an event would result in a pull back of spending by many SDs and simultaneously induce a lack of income crisis for girls in the typical SB age demographic.

So, while I don't claim to have a crystal ball, I believe that would amount to (A) more girls needing help and (B) less SDs willing to throw money out the window to get laid.

I personally believe that between the pandemic and supply chain issues that have resulted from that, as well as political disturbances going on in eastern Europe, the conditions are set up for a truly epic, perfect storm. I could be wrong but it's starting to look increasingly likely we will get a chance to test that theory soon... I've just learned to trust my instinct over the years and decades, they almost never let me down.

It sort of matches up if you think about it. Right now SDs are complaining off too much GPS, too few girls available, etc. Inflation is going through the roof, real estate bubbles everywhere, and now the creaking sounds of a pending collapse can be heard.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5897372]There are a few different schools of thought on this and I'm always interested in other's thoughts. In the study of economics, luxury items have extremely high price elasticity, meaning demand for them drops substantially during economically lean times. Examples of expenditures on elastic goods and services are vacations, jewelry, luxury cars. Examples of inelastic expenditures are paying rent and groceries, gas, repairs on existing cars, etc.

As you pointed out, pussy is a luxury. But just like luxury cars, jewelry and other items, often is purchased by those who can afford to indulge enough to "get the taste of luxury". Mercedes Benz, BMW, and similar brands are considered luxury, but there is a reason they choose to put some of their luxury goods within the purchasing range of the middle class and a reason we see so many of them on the road (not just the "1% That is because they know that the fact they can sell an occasional six-figure car in one economy doesn't mean they will still be able to a few months later, and overall they will be able to weather storms better if they know how to produce more units of cars that can be sold at some reasonable volume rather than a few units of mega-priced vehicles.

Personally I don't think most SDs are in the 1%, and are not independently wealthy by the pure definition, at least that's been my impression from the stories I hear from the girls I've known. They are more likely to be six-figure+ earning working men, and their spending power (and even employment opportunities) would be impacted by a deep recession, WWIII, or similar. At the same time low-wage job opportunities (restaurant servers etc) would tend to become more sparse. Company layoffs and so forth tend to have a fear-inducing affect that reduces consumer confidence, and I believe such an event would result in a pull back of spending by many SDs and simultaneously induce a lack of income crisis for girls in the typical SB age demographic.

So, while I don't claim to have a crystal ball, I believe that would amount to (A) more girls needing help and (B) less SDs willing to throw money out the window to get laid.

I personally believe that between the pandemic and supply chain issues that have resulted from that, as well as political disturbances going on in eastern Europe, the conditions are set up for a truly epic, perfect storm. I could be wrong but it's starting to look increasingly likely we will get a chance to test that theory soon... I've just learned to trust my instinct over the years and decades, they almost never let me down.

It sort of matches up if you think about it. Right now SDs are complaining off too much GPS, too few girls available, etc. Inflation is going through the roof, real estate bubbles everywhere, and now the creaking sounds of a pending collapse can be heard.[/QUOTE]Eh, IMHO pussy is both a commodity and a luxury. High end Eros & Tryst type girls are the Luxury stuff. The rest, SBs included are a commodity. As the marginal and unknowledgeable players get washed out of the game when a recession happens, then the supply of Daddies will shrink and a girl can either "have a sale" or go without extra funds.

But hey Simps are out there! Had a SB recently tell me a dude met her for lunch and forked over $1 K at the lunch and they had not even gotten to the "dating" part yet. To tell the truth me thinks this was her little "game" to get me to the same level. Then again there apparently are dumb guys out there. I mean who pays a SB with a check? LOL!

But IF we get a recession, a s long as the dudes with money hang on to it and ration it wisely, yeah, prices will go down.

Oh and on the luxury car thingie. Apparently 75% of the BMWs that leave a lot in any year are under a "fLease" so not high rollers buying them.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5897445]
Oh and on the luxury car thingie. Apparently 75% of the BMWs that leave a lot in any year are under a "fLease" so not high rollers buying them.[/QUOTE]I can certainly believe that. I never got the allure of leasing personally, it seems to me like giving too much control over the financial situation to someone else and the lease payments aren't typically THAT much less than financing.

I bought an expensive foreign car right before the pandemic hit, paid cash. Some friends were razzing me about depreciation, but I love the car and many of the premium options I got on it have since been removed from the menu on a new vehicle because of supply chain issues - can't even get this car any more. Those who leased got extra-fucked I guess. I'll probably keep it longer than I originally expected, it's still barely got any miles because my job & travel situation changed with COVID. I wonder how many dudes leased and never even drove their cars for the amount of miles they pre-paid for.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;5897445]Eh, IMHO pussy is both a commodity and a luxury. High end Eros & Tryst type girls are the Luxury stuff. The rest, SBs included are a commodity. As the marginal and unknowledgeable players get washed out of the game when a recession happens, then the supply of Daddies will shrink and a girl can either "have a sale" or go without extra funds.
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Oh and on the luxury car thingie. Apparently 75% of the BMWs that leave a lot in any year are under a "fLease" so not high rollers buying them.[/QUOTE]The fact that so many BMW's and other cars are leased has to do with the monthly payment being lower than financing the car. The manufacturers have been subsidizing leases for many years in various ways. A lease payment is made up of the MSRP, the negotiated price, the residual percentage (what the buyout / value is at lease end) and a money factor (interest rate).

The manufacturers can offer lease cash which can lower the price of the car. They can also raise or lower the residual value. When the residual is high, the payment is less. Occasionally, they miscalculate and the residual is too high which is good for the consumer, but not the manufacturer. Also they can raise or lower the money factor. A lower money factor is a lower interest rate.

Due to the current shortage of cars, many of the manufacturers are no longer aggressive in supporting a lease and there is a lot of sticker shock when people's leases end and they want to go into a new lease. Because of this, a lot of people are buying out their old lease, especially since they have driven less in the last few years. This in turn has caused a shortage in good used cars coming off of lease and makes for higher prices of used cars.

I have both a 2021 and 2022 higher end BMW. I leased the 2021 when it first came out in 2020 as I crunched the numbers and with lease support, the payment was less than what I was paying for the identical 2018 model that I turned in. I would have purchased the 2018 as it was extremely low mileage, but BMW would not negotiate a lower buyout and the buyout price was more than the car was worth both wholesale and retail. On the 2022, I crunched the numbers and leasing did not make sense. As I had the money, I paid cash. I calculated that based on the residual they figured in a lease, that the car had to depreciate an additional $10,000 for me to have made a mistake. Since the residual was low, I felt that this would probably not happen. Also, unless you invest the cash and are a winner, you cannot make money just sitting on the cash or putting it into savings. Whether I am right or wrong on the 2022, only time will tell. But I do like not being on a lease where you have to make a decision at lease end instead of making a decision on a vehicle whenever you want to.

With this said, I will not pay a ridiculous price for Pussy and will wait till rates come down. I too believe they will.

[QUOTE=EscortReview89;5896007]So I've been seeing this one SB for a while now and she started to add a lot of rules. We went from BBBJ to CBJ, and just limiting other activates while asking for money for "medical help for a procedure" which leads me to to think of one thing that involves BBFS / CIP or I might be overthinking it. Her seeking profile for reference, I know a few here have written about her, and I have as well. I can't help but think I might be getting played, has anyone else had this happen with a SB. Is she doing these same rules with others or am I getting the short end of the arrangement.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/992c9ab1-c412-4dc1-9628-0ac3f96f53dc[/URL][/QUOTE]Yes, you are over thinking. No idea why CBJ but I believe she may have had a brief time period her birth control had expired & she was being careful. The "procedure" I'm guessing was the thing that goes under the skin that provides three years of protection.

I know she has lost some regulars so she's probably looking for a few good men. As soon as she does she'll delete the long on SA again, I would bet. It's been well over a year since it was up before, I believe she lived in Charlottesville when she first joined, then moved to the Richmond area?

[QUOTE=Passport4;5898232]The fact that so many BMW's and other cars are leased has to do with the monthly payment being lower than financing the car. The manufacturers have been subsidizing leases for many years in various ways. A lease payment is made up of the MSRP, the negotiated price, the residual percentage (what the buyout / value is at lease end) and a money factor (interest rate).

The manufacturers can offer lease cash which can lower the price of the car. They can also raise or lower the residual value. When the residual is high, the payment is less. Occasionally, they miscalculate and the residual is too high which is good for the consumer, but not the manufacturer. Also they can raise or lower the money factor. A lower money factor is a lower interest rate.

Due to the current shortage of cars, many of the manufacturers are no longer aggressive in supporting a lease and there is a lot of sticker shock when people's leases end and they want to go into a new lease. Because of this, a lot of people are buying out their old lease, especially since they have driven less in the last few years. This in turn has caused a shortage in good used cars coming off of lease and makes for higher prices of used cars.

I have both a 2021 and 2022 higher end BMW. I leased the 2021 when it first came out in 2020 as I crunched the numbers and with lease support, the payment was less than what I was paying for the identical 2018 model that I turned in. I would have purchased the 2018 as it was extremely low mileage, but BMW would not negotiate a lower buyout and the buyout price was more than the car was worth both wholesale and retail. On the 2022, I crunched the numbers and leasing did not make sense. As I had the money, I paid cash. I calculated that based on the residual they figured in a lease, that the car had to depreciate an additional $10,000 for me to have made a mistake. Since the residual was low, I felt that this would probably not happen. Also, unless you invest the cash and are a winner, you cannot make money just sitting on the cash or putting it into savings. Whether I am right or wrong on the 2022, only time will tell. But I do like not being on a lease where you have to make a decision at lease end instead of making a decision on a vehicle whenever you want to.

With this said, I will not pay a ridiculous price for Pussy and will wait till rates come down. I too believe they will.[/QUOTE]I do lease a BMW SAV as a company vehicle; I don't know much about this because I pay someone to figure it out for me, but what I do know; There are no tax advantages for personally leasing a car (not sure why anybody would do that because at the end of the day (1) lease payment ends up higher than a simple 36/ mo. Car loan payment (2) at the end of the lease term limit you don't own the car), unless you are self-employed using or a business owner. Whereas a business owner can claim the lease payments expense, maintenance and operating expenses, milage on your tax returns. I think? The IRS will allow a portion of lease ownership to be depreciated. The BMW I had before the one I lease now, I negotiated to purchase it at the end of the lease term at $0. 80 on the dollar below retail sales price and flipped it for 5 K gain.

It's my opinion, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around pussy being a commodity and (vs) Luxury. No matter what your economic status, it's all relative to what is affordable. You are going to pay for it one way or another. And yes, I like variety, whether its free (having and SO or GF depends if she is high maintenance or not) or online shopping no matter how you look at it, pussy is pussy. I'm pretty much done with the on-line SB dating, although there are many variables in SB searching off-line, but on-line basically setting up a paid profile and account, finding an emotionally stable chick, the back-and-forth communication, negotiations, meet and greet. Ect, ect. And if she is not hosting renting a decent economical non-bed bug infested FC tends to be just to frigging time consuming. The only advantage is with the on-line SB shopping is stumbling upon a UTR low volume pro. I doubt very seriously those POT SB's had a real SD whale paying bucu $ for a meet and greet. They are just full of crap and are fishing. I have had that happen a few times and told the POT that I'm interviewing them for a mutually beneficial relationship have a nice day if you don't want to meet to discuss an arrangement.

In my world time=money and the time spending managing mutable POT's to possible fruition doesn't compute as good commodity or luxury investment when you can go to Tryst, PD, Eros or an agency (or low budget gamble with an ACS) to get lots variety and instant gratification without all the drama.

[QUOTE=Wysiwug;5898652]I do lease a BMW SAV as a company vehicle; I don't know much about this because I pay someone to figure it out for me, but what I do know; There are no tax advantages for personally leasing a car (not sure why anybody would do that because at the end of the day (1) lease payment ends up higher than a simple 36/ mo. Car loan payment (2) at the end of the lease term limit you don't own the car), unless you are self-employed using or a business owner. Whereas a business owner can claim the lease payments expense, maintenance and operating expenses, milage on your tax returns. I think? The IRS will allow a portion of lease ownership to be depreciated. The BMW I had before the one I lease now, I negotiated to purchase it at the end of the lease term at $0. 80 on the dollar below retail sales price and flipped it for 5 K gain.

It's my opinion, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around pussy being a commodity and (vs) Luxury. No matter what your economic status, it's all relative to what is affordable. You are going to pay for it one way or another. And yes, I like variety, whether its free (having and SO or GF depends if she is high maintenance or not) or online shopping no matter how you look at it, pussy is pussy. I'm pretty much done with the on-line SB dating, although there are many variables in SB searching off-line, but on-line basically setting up a paid profile and account, finding an emotionally stable chick, the back-and-forth communication, negotiations, meet and greet. Ect, ect. And if she is not hosting renting a decent economical non-bed bug infested FC tends to be just to frigging time consuming. The only advantage is with the on-line SB shopping is stumbling upon a UTR low volume pro. I doubt very seriously those POT SB's had a real SD whale paying bucu $ for a meet and greet. They are just full of crap and are fishing. I have had that happen a few times and told the POT that I'm interviewing them for a mutually beneficial relationship have a nice day if you don't want to meet to discuss an arrangement.

In my world time=money and the time spending managing mutable POT's to possible fruition doesn't compute as good commodity or luxury investment when you can go to Tryst, PD, Eros or an agency (or low budget gamble with an ACS) to get lots variety and instant gratification without all the drama.[/QUOTE]I did not intend to hijack this thread to have a leasing discussion, but since you replied with your thoughts on leasing, I felt I should respond. Also, the original poster implied that most BMW drivers are not in the 1% which may or may not be correct. Maybe some of you mongers can learn a thing or 2 about leasing and save enough to pay for taking a lady to the FC.

You are correct about there being no tax advantages of a personal lease. I began leasing in the early 90's when I would take a 2 year lease and get a new car every year. One year was mine, and the next year was my wife's. A 2 year lease is not the best decision as the car does the most depreciation then and therefore the residual drops the most in the first 24 months making the payment higher. But there were advantages of doing this. You could actually get equity in the vehicle as it would be worth more than what the residual was. At that time which was in the earlier days of personal leasing, BMW allowed you to buy the car at the residual, but you could jump the title and sell it to someone without you actually registering it and paying the sales tax. All you had to do was some paperwork and see that they got their money from either you or the buyer. So you could make profit which made up for the higher monthly payment. And if you did what I would do and order a car to arrive as soon as the new model was released, your car would be 24 months old at time of lease end, but the car would only be 1 model year old. This worked for about 4 vehicles and then BMW stopped letting you jump the title.

When BMW made a bad calculation on the 6 series residual, the car was worth more than $10,000 less than the residual, so you would not want to buy it off lease. But working with a good dealer, they got to be able to buy it for less from BMW and I actually bought my own car off lease for $10,000 less than the residual. Imagine if you owned the car or had financed it and the value was $10,000 less overnight. And I never actually delivered the car to the dealer as they just did a paperwork transaction. (This happened recently on the 8 series as BMW dropped the MSRP on the 8 for 2022 so many who bought the 2021 will be burned) Well BMW in the last couple years closed that loophole too. The dealer can buy the car off lease and it is based on auction prices so it is usually much less than the residual. (may not be the case today due to the shortage of used cars) But if the dealer sells it back to the original owner, they can only make a few hundred dollars instead of several thousands selling to a new person as BMW will penalize them.

I feel that I am knowledgeable on buying versus leasing and have done both on a lot of BMW's since those early days. And if you can afford to either buy or lease, there is no one correct answer. That is why I crunch the numbers on each vehicle as it all depends on the situation at the time of vehicle purchase and what the factory is offering. One thing that I do know is that you can never beat the dealer. They are always looking at every angle to get you for a few hundred extra especially many dealers marking up the money factor over what the actual BMW money factor is. It only adds maybe $20 a month to the payment, but that is between $240 to $360 depending on the lease time. This is additional profit to them and a loss to you that could pay for one romp in the FC.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5897372] In the study of economics, luxury items have extremely high price elasticity, meaning demand for them drops substantially during economically lean times. As you pointed out, pussy is a luxury.... {In a recession}Company layoffs and so forth tend to have a fear-inducing affect that reduces consumer confidence, and I believe such an event would result in a pull back of spending by many SDs and simultaneously induce a lack of income crisis for girls in the typical SB age demographic.

So, while I don't claim to have a crystal ball, I believe that would amount to (A) more girls needing help and (B) less SDs willing to throw money out the window to get laid.[/QUOTE]Wow! The price elasticity of pussy would be an interesting academic exercise in Micro-Economics that I wish my Econ 102 professor had given to me.

What will happen to the prices of SBs during a recession? As you aptly noted, SBs have a high price elasticity of demand. Past a certain point, the more a SB charges, the far fewer clients she can expect. But what is that point? And what does recession do to supply and demand? Does it drive some SDs out of the market because they can no longer afford it? More SBs would likely "work" during a recession. Especially those who were already on the fringe of considering this. More SB supply would logically drive prices down and less SD demand would also drive prices down, but would this actually happen? In theory, perhaps. But this is actually a very complex situation. Firstly, we haven't even considered yet the quality of the pussy. We aren't exactly talking about equally satisfying and acceptable sacks of sugar. And, secondly there is both a price elasticity of demand for pussy as well as a price elasticity of supply to consider (lower prices could mean fewer SBs would be willing to be available). Not to mention almost no data to support a calculation of either. So at best it is a conjecture.

So here is my best guess. Currently at $100 a meet (of course, time would also be a factor) there would be almost unlimited demand, but limited supply. Supply would increase and demand decrease almost on a straight line, with a midpoint of $250. After that, demand would get considerably slower and supply considerably faster, until, at about $500 and higher, there would be almost unlimited supply, but not much demand. This is, of course, a very rough guesstimate, with absolutely no proof. Would this graph shift to the left in a recession? OMG! I have a headache. LOL.

[QUOTE=Wysiwug;5898652]I do lease a BMW SAV as a company vehicle; <snipped>.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Passport4;5898847]I did not intend to hijack this thread to have a leasing discussion, but since you replied with your thoughts on leasing, I felt I should respond. Also, the original poster implied that most BMW drivers are not in the 1% which may or may not be correct. Maybe some of you mongers can learn a thing or 2 about leasing and save enough to pay for taking a lady to the FC.<snipped>.[/QUOTE]It seems to be more about BMWs than anything else. But, it's always been true that leasing can be a great move if you have a business. I've done it. I'm definitely in what is considered the 1%, and I do not drive a traditional "luxury" car, although I'd offer that it has all the bells and whistles I need. And I lease because I have a couple of businesses.

I don't try to save money on my car to fund fucking hookers (or SBs). Regarding pussy, either I can afford it, or I can't. It turns out I can, so I go with that. The pandemic has softened things in terms of travel and opportunity, but my usual spend per year on pussy and related fun is between $50K-$75K. That's way more than I spend on cars.

When I first saw the post, I thought PTG was talking about something I've noticed and posted on before. The elasticity of SB pussy itself, so so much greater than women of my peer age. One of the many reasons I am addicted to the sugar bowl, and can't envision a scenario where I'd not want to be seeing a younger woman from SA.

There's periodic talk on here about sucker guys who lack confidence and / or balls and are giving girls way too much $ and ruining the market for the rest of us. I wonder what evidence there is about this. Certainly, girls are only too happy to tell prospects about the great big allowances they (or their close GFs) were given by past SDs, but I've read several scenarios here where a guy had factual knowledge to the contrary. Such as, he was already banging that close GF and was certain she wasn't getting the dough that his current POT said that the other girl was.

Really, what is the more likely scenario? That a girl on a sugar dating site is exaggerating in order to try to get a more lavish deal out of the guy she is currently negotiating with, or that in fact she once found a whale who was so bereft of self-respect (and filthy rich), he felt the only way he could get a girl in bed was to give her a grand a pop. How often does no ego and a big wallet go together?

I am sure there are a few girls on seeking who have a history of being a kept woman, and they are pretty obvious from their profiles. Likely older, late 20's to 30's, model quality looks, sophisticated writing. I would usually skip over those anyway. I don't mean to exclude the possibility that there might have been someone who was getting literally total support from a guy, I might have even briefly had a relationship w / one such. I posted a picture of her not long ago, and she told me as much. And it seemed credible. It is just that this situation is about as rare as SDs who are 'whales', and girls who sit around and wait for those kinds of deals could truly wait forever.

So, what is it about this site that has persistent postings about this scenario? It's almost like a conspiracy theory - 'birds aren't real'.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5900613]There's periodic talk on here about sucker guys who lack confidence and / or balls and are giving girls way too much $ and ruining the market for the rest of us. I wonder what evidence there is about this. Certainly, girls are only too happy to tell prospects about the great big allowances they (or their close GFs) were given by past SDs, but I've read several scenarios here where a guy had factual knowledge to the contrary. Such as, he was already banging that close GF and was certain she wasn't getting the dough that his current POT said that the other girl was.

Really, what is the more likely scenario? That a girl on a sugar dating site is exaggerating in order to try to get a more lavish deal out of the guy she is currently negotiating with, or that in fact she once found a whale who was so bereft of self-respect (and filthy rich), he felt the only way he could get a girl in bed was to give her a grand a pop. How often does no ego and a big wallet go together?

I am sure there are a few girls on seeking who have a history of being a kept woman, and they are pretty obvious from their profiles. Likely older, late 20's to 30's, model quality looks, sophisticated writing. I would usually skip over those anyway. I don't mean to exclude the possibility that there might have been someone who was getting literally total support from a guy, I might have even briefly had a relationship w / one such. I posted a picture of her not long ago, and she told me as much. And it seemed credible. It is just that this situation is about as rare as SDs who are 'whales', and girls who sit around and wait for those kinds of deals could truly wait forever.

So, what is it about this site that has persistent postings about this scenario? It's almost like a conspiracy theory - 'birds aren't real'.[/QUOTE]Good one Far. Yep "bird aren't real", actually birds you think you see flying in the sky are actually government surveillance drones. Pretty satirical, isn't it? LOL.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5900613]There's periodic talk on here about sucker guys who lack confidence and / or balls and are giving girls way too much $ and ruining the market for the rest of us. I wonder what evidence there is about this. ....

So, what is it about this site that has persistent postings about this scenario? It's almost like a conspiracy theory - 'birds aren't real'.[/QUOTE]On a recurring basis in the past, I've known girls that enthusiastically spent the night with me after a night of wining and dining (which usually means getting fucked 3-4 times) without ever knowing or asking what I was going to give them the next day when I send them along, that were thrilled to get $300 for that and couldn't wait to see me again.

Then, 6 to 12 months later when I'm in their city again and shoot them a text, they say "oh I'd love to see you again. Buuuuuuut. Just so you know I'm getting $600 now" and they want to book a couple of hours like an escort / john situation.

I've tried to understand exactly how this process occurs, and as best as I can tell the younger / newer girls just entering the lifestyle seem to vet who they see very carefully, choosing only guys they have some attraction to and entering the lifestyle more or less like any other form of online dating. At that stage, they aren't focused on how much they will perceive per visit, they are just looking for someone they like, and of course financial success is a huge factor in male attractiveness, so the richer the better. But mainly they want to come away with it not feeling like a hooker.

But over time they go in one of two directions. They either meet mister right (whether an SD or an age appropriate guy) and enter a relationship (or a series of relationships that pulls them out of sugaring), or they decide financial independence is more important to them and they start gravitating in that direction.

That means caring less about who they fuck, and asking for increasingly high rates to fuck the older out of shape guys who have to pay more because of who they are, and at that point the girl increasingly becoming more or less an overpriced cum bucket that expects $600-800 an hour or whatever.

At the risk of igniting another car lease discussion (heh), I still look at pussy in economic terms and consider it a renewable resource, so there will always be a stream of new girls to replace the overpriced cum buckets.

So I'd have to say yes, because SDs are horny and too often think only with their dicks, pussy eventually gets overpriced because there will always be a point at which sexual desperation on the part of the SD finds an intersecting point with the financial desperation of the SB.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5901142]... as best as I can tell the younger / newer girls just entering the lifestyle seem to vet who they see very carefully, choosing only guys they have some attraction to and entering the lifestyle more or less like any other form of online dating. At that stage, they aren't focused on how much they will perceive per visit, they are just looking for someone they like, and of course financial success is a huge factor in male attractiveness, so the richer the better. But mainly they want to come away with it not feeling like a hooker.

But over time they go in one of two directions. They either meet mister right (whether an SD or an age appropriate guy) and enter a relationship (or a series of relationships that pulls them out of sugaring), or they decide financial independence is more important to them and they start gravitating in that direction.

... I still look at pussy in economic terms and consider it a renewable resource, so there will always be a stream of new girls to replace the overpriced cum buckets.[/QUOTE]

SBs tire of SDs and want more dough to put up with the aggravation. SDs tire of SBs and want a new model. It is inevitable.

Pussy is definitely a "renewable resource. " There is plenty of it out there. I want what you want: a fresh new face who is a lot of fun and not just preoccupied with the cash. Fortunately the supply is virtually unlimited. There is a fresh face around every corner. Are they on sugar sites? Many say yes and find ways to re-prime the pump there. I say no and recruit all of mine in the wild. Whatever works for you, works for you. Are prices too high? For someone who is used to $30 SW BJs, a SB price is outrageous. But then there is quality to consider. I have experienced relative price stability for a very long time now. I can sometimes find a bargain for 100, a usual at 200 and a mint condition perfect gem for 300. And I change my SBs like I change the oil in my car. Eventually even the freshest new oil gets a bit sludgy. But there is plenty of new oil out there. All I need to do is take a drive, a walk, or just look around wherever I happen to be. I have 5 new SBs in my sights right now. I will share more details about the how and where later.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901276]SBs are no different from all other human beings. When we experience anything for the first time, a new job, a new car, a new house, a new GF, a new SB, a new SD, it is fresh and different and we can revel in the initial novelty of it. After a while, the new smell wears off and we find it to be more tedious. Unless it continues to be immensely enjoyable, we start looking for something new again, or desire to have compensation for putting up with the same old same old.

SBs tire of SDs and want more dough to put up with the aggravation. SDs tire of SBs and want a new model. It is inevitable.
[/QUOTE]While I agree about the initial euphoria of something new, in the scenario I described I feel the SB is taking the low road, because as someone who most likely visited her while traveling, we aren't around each other enough to get tired of each other.

Basically if I contact her six months down the road, I'm taking a risk that she's gained weight or has otherwise let herself go (which is what I'm paying for) while at the same time honoring my previous allowance commitment. I'm not going to say "oh by the way I'm getting girls for $150 instead of $250 so I need to give you less this time". I remain true to whatever I gave her before and won't even suggest giving less.

If anything she is the one that benefits the most by seeing me once every few months because she knows who she's fucking ahead of time and doesn't have to worry about meeting some psycho who might be out to do her harm.

It's the old symptom of give an inch and watch them take a mile. They know that because SDs are typically older, responsible, and unlike guys their age they date typically make good on follow up and doing what we say we are going to do, they exercise their right to be flighty and unreliable, both with attendance and pay.

Not saying they are all like that, just speaking of the ones who become overpriced cum buckets.

Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5901337]While I agree about the initial euphoria of something new, in the scenario I described I feel the SB is taking the low road, because as someone who most likely visited her while traveling, we aren't around each other enough to get tired of each other.[/QUOTE]Low road? I hear you. I had a sweet young thing who used to be happy with 100 a meet and now she wants 300 an hour! She had graduated from SB to high-priced escort. From a SD point of view this was a bad thing. But, from a SB point of view, she was moving up in the world.
[QUOTE] Basically if I contact her six months down the road, I'm taking a risk that she's gained weight or has otherwise let herself go (which is what I'm paying for) while at the same time honoring my previous allowance commitment. I'm not going to say "oh by the way I'm getting girls for $150 instead of $250 so I need to give you less this time". I remain true to whatever I gave her before and won't even suggest giving less.

If anything she is the one that benefits the most by seeing me once every few months because she knows who she's fucking ahead of time and doesn't have to worry about meeting some psycho who might be out to do her harm.[/QUOTE]That's definitely the SD point of view. The SB point of view is another matter. LOL.

[QUOTE]It's the old symptom of give an inch and watch them take a mile. They know that because SDs are typically older, responsible, and unlike guys their age they date typically make good on follow up and doing what we say we are going to do, they exercise their right to be flighty and unreliable, both with attendance and pay.

Not saying they are all like that, just speaking of the ones who become overpriced cum buckets.[/QUOTE]"Overpriced cum bucket" is funny but might be a little harsh for the transformation from sweet darling "amateurs" to pro-escorts. However, when a SB pulls any of the crap you mentioned, she is very soon in my rear view mirror. I have zero tolerance for a SB who thinks her time is more valuable than mine by showing up late or not promptly responding to communication. And, if she decides she deserves a raise, unless her performance has drastically improved (very highly unlikely), then it is time for a pink slip. I don't begrudge her thinking she is more valuable, but let someone else pay that tab.

Yet another dummy. That would be me - falls for it.

After years of being careful, one momentary lapse of reasoning and she got me. Dang.

Maybe someone here can learn from my mistake.

Signed.

Dumbass.

Details [URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?23844-Philly-Sugar&p=5901769&viewfull=1[/URL]#post5901769.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901477]Low road? I hear you. I had a sweet young thing who used to be happy with 100 a meet and now she wants 300 an hour! She had graduated from SB to high-priced escort. From a SD point of view this was a bad thing. But, from a SB point of view, she was moving up in the world.
[/QUOTE]I wonder how many escorts get into their 40's, 50's, 60's and beyond and feel like they are moving up as the demand for their services (and prices they can get) fall away. I've seen some pretty pathetic cases. I've seen aged-out sex workers get on YT and literally cry about customers who left after seeing them in person, or who did the deed but wouldn't hang around long enough to have a cup of coffee and small talk because they wanted to get the hell away. It doesn't really matter if a former SB turned escort THINKS she is moving up. She can't rewrite history. History is made up of facts and not opinions. Their market value rapidly depreciates over time as an escort (or as any woman who makes her appearance her primary life skill), and this is how they turn out if they try to make a career out of it, due to all the sacrifices they made along the way (such as time they could have spent with kids or family or just invested in a healthy monogamous relationship).

Meanwhile, I've seen plenty of SBs have the absolute time of their life with the lifestyle, then decide fun time is over and its time for a boyfriend and career, and live happily ever after. I don't think that's a bad plan for life at all.

If she goes too far it might "spoil" her to the point where she has trouble forming healthy relationships, but it's up to all of us to prioritize our own lives. I find pussy addictive enough that it could have pulled me away from everything, but luckily I always had (apparently) a balanced _id_against_the_ego that helped remind me what was most important and has allowed me to maintain a real relationship with someone I really love. And if I found out I was dying tomorrow, it would be that relationship I would most thankful for, not all the pussy. Even if between all the self-pity of dying I found myself grinning at some of the memories. . LOL.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901477]
"Overpriced cum bucket" is funny but might be a little harsh for the transformation from sweet darling "amateurs" to pro-escorts. However, when a SB pulls any of the crap you mentioned, she is very soon in my rear view mirror. I have zero tolerance for a SB who thinks her time is more valuable than mine by showing up late or not promptly responding to communication. And, if she decides she deserves a raise, unless her performance has drastically improved (very highly unlikely), then it is time for a pink slip. I don't begrudge her thinking she is more valuable, but let someone else pay that tab.[/QUOTE]If she's decided to be a pro escort, she's committed to a career of being exploited for her holes. I don't doubt the idea of being a cum bucket is offensive to some of them, and I certainly hope any SB's reading on don't misunderstand and think I'm using that term to describe most of the girls I've known (by a long shot). But a prostitute is in fact a cum receptacle by career choice. I'm not saying that's ALL she is as a human being -- I'm sure some sex workers are also great mothers and loving individuals. But they cannot say they aren't a spooge destination by profession and by choice. Some girls love exploitative talk aimed toward them as a turn on. I've had girls ask me to say shit and do shit to them that just doesn't come naturally to me at all. Lot of the feminist-oriented ones have told me they find it empowering to command to be treated like shit. Go figure.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5901445]Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5901445]Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902280]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.[/QUOTE]Hard to understand why it's even a discussion about how some guys can fuck up a market for everyone else. If I go to the Cosmo and have a drink at the Vesper bar, it's way overpriced for what I could get if I wanted to shoot down to Freemont. With all this game everyone keeps going on about, how could anyone paying more for something than you affect your success rate? Just "game" them and talk it down.

Of course, I guess I can practice chatting up the hotel management to see if they'll give me Freemont prices.
Do I mess it up for everyone buying an expensive car if I simply pay sticker because I don't feel like fucking around and it doesn't matter to me? What if I just pay the stated rate for a suite, when I could get it for half-off if I spent some time trying? Do I ruin it for those that want to get the best price possible?

The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902280]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.[/QUOTE]Look, SA is in business to make $, they get that only from us. However, they need bait, SBs, and they don't want to actually pay for them. But what they do is promise them all the riches they can have. So, that is why there are all sorts of blogs, podcasts, etc. That tell girls that they can get all sorts of $ from SDs. SA also may promote the fiction that girls don't have to put out to get that. That lets them join the site without thinking they are also joining the worlds oldest profession. Whether they ever make the transition from a wannabe to an actual SB has a lot to do w / their vanilla dating experience and the sorts of males they get connected with from the site.

[QUOTE=RogerOver;5902302]Hard to understand why it's even a discussion about how some guys can fuck up a market for everyone else. If I go to the Cosmo and have a drink at the Vesper bar, it's way overpriced for what I could get if I wanted to shoot down to Freemont. With all this game everyone keeps going on about, how could anyone paying more for something than you affect your success rate? Just "game" them and talk it down.

Of course, I guess I can practice chatting up the hotel management to see if they'll give me Freemont prices.
Do I mess it up for everyone buying an expensive car if I simply pay sticker because I don't feel like fucking around and it doesn't matter to me? What if I just pay the stated rate for a suite, when I could get it for half-off if I spent some time trying? Do I ruin it for those that want to get the best price possible?

The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.[/QUOTE]I've never walked in a food / beverage establishment that said to me "I know I charged you $5 for that drink yesterday, but you only tipped $1. Other customers are tipping $4 so I needed to increase the price of the drink to $10".

Yet that same pricing scenario, applied to SBs and pussy, has happened to me at least a few dozen times. This means I have to either pay her more, or consider her off the market. Finding new ones in a given city costs time and money so the inflation caused by others has impacted my bottom line more times than I can remember.

If others have never had that experience, then hats off to you and I hope you never need to deal with it. If there's one thing I've learned reading these forums is that my experiences in the sugar lifestyle are not exactly like others. I do tend to play the game in a way that I pay allowances that are seemingly lower than typical, and this may make my methods more susceptible to the inflation scenario I've described here.

Even still though, basic economic principles should explain all of this better than I can. For any type of service, sexual or otherwise, if the provider is able to earn 2x more the rate per hour from customer B than customer A is willing to provide, they have little reason to continue providing to customer A because it demonstrates to them that the 2x rate is available and thus their time is better spent with the 2x paying customers. This upward pressure on price is not limited to sexual services.

There is of course a human element involved in sexual interaction, and some SBs (the good ones, IMHO) would prefer the idea of getting a couple of hundred from a super fit SD that they enjoy being around instead of two or three times as much from an out of shape or annoying SD.... but many of them start out as the former and gravitate to the latter. Why? Because if the market is there for it, sometimes financial desperation leads them to it.

Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Buyers and sellers. That's what makes a market. Prices result from the interaction of both. To complain about the actions of strong buyers with plenty of cash (brains are another subject, LOL) is a waste of time unless you have control of market forces. The strong will always prevail over the weak, whether that is fair or not. Not true? Tell the strong lions to stop eating so many zebras and give the weaker lions a chance. See how well that works out.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Let's say you had the power to regulate the price of sugar. What would happen? Some sellers of sugar might refuse to accept the regulated price. A shortage would develop. Some buyers of sugar would be willing to pay more than the regulated price. Those buyers and sellers would find one another. It's called a black market. Those with spendable cash will find the products and services they desire, regardless of the legality of the transaction. The market for pussy is illegal; it's already a black market. LE can come down hard and slow it down, but you can't stop it and you can't regulate it. You most certainly can't complain about it and expect the black market forces to behave the way you want them to.

To requote a truism:

[QUOTE=RogerOver;5902302]The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Evidence. What evidence is there that guys are (as often as girls claim) giving them a kilobuck a meet? There is plenty of evidence that social media and girl-to-girl transmission claims that they are getting that, contrary to fact. And if some guy is in Vegas and wants to blow his bankroll on a SB, that really doesn't have meaning to the overall market for SBs.

Wants 4 bills and won't budge. [URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/76ad7f3c-8824-4e42-9caf-0057b028a359[/URL].

I'll pass.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5902927]Buyers and sellers. That's what makes a market. Prices result from the interaction of both. To complain about the actions of strong buyers with plenty of cash (brains are another subject, LOL) is a waste of time unless you have control of market forces. The strong will always prevail over the weak, whether that is fair or not. Not true? Tell the strong lions to stop eating so many zebras and give the weaker lions a chance. See how well that works out.[/QUOTE]I normally don't spend time complaining about it or debating it. Someone asked if anyone had seen evidence of this being real so I shared my own experiences. I have no shortage of cash, or girls interested in seeing me for minimal amounts. Prior to the pandemic (which by my choice, put a hold on my sugaring), I've gotten overnight freebies from girls I've seen others post on USASG complaining about same girl is quoting them $1. 5 k, so I already know where my game stands relative to others. In the lions analogy I'm exactly where I want to be and where many would like to be. I've seen some of the pics posted here -- one man's treasure is often a girl who couldn't pay me enough to fuck her.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5903104]Evidence. What evidence is there that guys are (as often as girls claim) giving them a kilobuck a meet? There is plenty of evidence that social media and girl-to-girl transmission claims that they are getting that, contrary to fact. And if some guy is in Vegas and wants to blow his bankroll on a SB, that really doesn't have meaning to the overall market for SBs.[/QUOTE]Not trying to be argumentative but the evidence is that over past 2 years prices have increased 100-200%. If what your saying is true then you could counter offer lower amount and since they exaggerating they will take it. I find quite the opposite is true. They immediately stop conversation. So they are either starving or somebody is paying it.

I have encountered lots of POTS, that go silent after the first text.

They will text "Hi", "Yes" then will never be heard from again.

Should I just text a number eg: 500 to see their reaction?

[QUOTE=Jcn1965;5903373]Not trying to be argumentative but the evidence is that over past 2 years prices have increased 100-200%. If what your saying is true then you could counter offer lower amount and since they exaggerating they will take it. I find quite the opposite is true. They immediately stop conversation. So they are either starving or somebody is paying it.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Whenever I said "no thanks" to the new rate, I can't remember any of these girls texting me later saying they changed their mind. They just never looked back, and neither did I. So they are clearly not bluffing.

I have heard of it going the other way and some SDs renegotiating the allowance to their own advantage, but I've never done that either. I usually gift them what I feel is appropriate, and I then don't let them down by giving less. They remain happy as long as I'm seeing them regularly. Where it goes wrong is when I don't see them for an extended period of time. I guess they venture out and find a needy one that's willing to pay whatever he has to in order to not be lonely.

[QUOTE=Happtrav;5903563]I have encountered lots of POTS, that go silent after the first text.

They will text "Hi", "Yes" then will never be heard from again.

Should I just text a number eg: 500 to see their reaction?[/QUOTE]That's the best way to get banned that IK -.

When you say 'text' you mean message on SA, right?

If you are texting them by phone, you can say most anything.

[QUOTE=Jcn1965;5903373]Not trying to be argumentative but the evidence is that over past 2 years prices have increased 100-200%. If what your saying is true then you could counter offer lower amount and since they exaggerating they will take it. I find quite the opposite is true. They immediately stop conversation. So they are either starving or somebody is paying it.[/QUOTE]Everyone is fishing in their own bowl. IDK where you are, but there are plenty of people in the locales where I read sugar threads, west coast, Atlanta, this one, who say that they get an initial request for a kilobuck from a girl, and they can negotiate her down to something reasonable. Maybe it isn't like that with the girls you target in your area, but that doesn't mean it is so everywhere. This thread of course includes the Richmond area but has also become the de facto national sugar thread. I definitely haven't seen rates to up by that much in the 4 years I have been on the site. There are always girls who have a glorious opinion about what they are worth, but I still find reasonable women in southern California. I could have my pick of many many desirable Caucasian girls if I were willing to part with 2 K / mo for weekly meetups. I can't quite do that much anymore, hiding that level of expenditure is challenging.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5903761]Exactly. Whenever I said "no thanks" to the new rate, I can't remember any of these girls texting me later saying they changed their mind. They just never looked back, and neither did I. So they are clearly not bluffing.

I have heard of it going the other way and some SDs renegotiating the allowance to their own advantage, but I've never done that either. I usually gift them what I feel is appropriate, and I then don't let them down by giving less. They remain happy as long as I'm seeing them regularly. Where it goes wrong is when I don't see them for an extended period of time. I guess they venture out and find a needy one that's willing to pay whatever he has to in order to not be lonely.[/QUOTE]Are you talking someone you've been seeing wanting more? Or that you are dealing with a POT and she wants crazy amounts? I never never talk $ w / a girl electronically, only face-to-face. This blog is great evidence that people are way more bold when they have the anonymity of the internet. In person, no girl wants to be rejected, and she'll take a more reasonable amount. Negotiating this way also makes her feel less like she's a pro.