"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=LandonR;2316649]Promised an update form my two weeks of naughtiness which is now (thankfully? Coming to a close.

SB#12 drove 2 hours to visit me yesterday. This was a bit of a risk as I had never met her in person and she arrived around 4 pm in the afternoon and with plans to go to a swanky New Years Eve party. She is a college graduate, good job, mother, and separated / divorced. She arrives and its a bit bigger than her profile pictures but still bangable. She was certainly nervous. We hit the bar for drinks and appetizers which set me back $50. Not sure what I was thinking, but I offered to pay for a manicure / pedicure for her $50 and she needed shoes because she forgot her heels $30 (thanks Target! Throughout the afternoon and into the evening I could tell this was going to be work because she talked about how she "was not a prostitute" and "not looking for a cash for sex exchange" etc. Etc.

We hit the party and that set me back some more. Dinner was $75. And I probably dropped another $75 on drinks throughout the evening. Hanging out with her was a bit of a chore as she was tough to engage in conversation, should not affection or emotion throughout the evening. It was almost as she was going through the motions and it was evident based on a number of things she was saying that I was not getting any that night.

We head back from the party and get to the hotel about 1:30 am. The whole ride back she keeps telling me how tired she is and how she is just going to goto bed. She changes out of her dress and into sweat pants and a sweatshirt and crawls into bed as far as way as possible to me as she can. Once in bed I flat out told her that I didn't think she was feeling it, that I was going to respect her and not try and sleep with her. We go back and forth and she basically says that this is "too complicated" for her and she climbs out of beds, packs her bags and leaves the hotel around 2:30 am for a two hour drive back home!

This one defintley doesn't understand the role of being a sugar baby, but I was going to try and convince her to do anything she didn't want to do.

However it wasn't a total bust. When I woke up this morning on New Years Day, I had a text message from SB#5 telling me her plans got cancelled for the day and she could come see me if I wanted. She came to the hotel and we hit the hotel restaurant for a $25 breakfast and then back to the room to finish off some of the Champagne I had left over for the night before and a quick round of fun. I gave her a $50 New Years present and sent her on her way.

So a recap of my 2 weeks of craziness consists of.

Met 13 Sugar Babies in person (couple I didn't post about on here).

Brought 10 SB's back to the FC.

Closed the deal in one way or the other with 9 of them.

Had a total of 10 O's.

Sugar Cost of $335.

Incidental costs (drinks, apps, M&G costs) of $307 (Excluding the New Years Eve costs as I'm counting this as more of a traditional date as opposed to a sugar date).

Total cost per O = $64.20.

Play on players![/QUOTE]Sounds like you had a blast. Thanks for sharing all of this.

I'm about to meet a couple of POTs in the next week or two. I'm learning the pricing is different for my city (I'll only PM about it) since it's everywhere 24/7 if you get my drift. Which is cool, because I'd only want to meet 1 x a week at most until trusted and then the FC is an option. That said, a lot of the gals in my city have been updating their posts complaining about the 'arrangements' - saying $2 to $5 is too cheap. I've been having fun lecturing them on the market, taxes, and how most net worths are grounded in LT invesvtments and the additional knowledge (like going out with someone that has $2 to spend.) One was even so bold as to say 'If $200 is your disposable income, I doubt you're a sugar-daddy and stop wasting my time. ' I actually messaged that gal and told her the difference between taking out $200 from the ATM vs $400 with marrieds or with those with S / Os. Of course, no response. Do you guys even waste your time with this? I'm figuring getting to the point pre-meet is a good way to go. Different cities, different folks. Just glad to see guys on my end holding up their end of the bargain. Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.

Anyone have any opinions / experience with arrangementfinders or the ashmadison (site won't let me type out the full name) sites?

[QUOTE=TacoLover23;2316826] Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.[/QUOTE]I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.

[QUOTE=TacoLover23;2316826]I'm about to meet a couple of POTs in the next week or two. I'm learning the pricing is different for my city (I'll only PM about it) since it's everywhere 24/7 if you get my drift. Which is cool, because I'd only want to meet 1 x a week at most until trusted and then the FC is an option. That said, a lot of the gals in my city have been updating their posts complaining about the 'arrangements' - saying $2 to $5 is too cheap. I've been having fun lecturing them on the market, taxes, and how most net worths are grounded in LT invesvtments and the additional knowledge (like going out with someone that has $2 to spend.) One was even so bold as to say 'If $200 is your disposable income, I doubt you're a sugar-daddy and stop wasting my time. ' I actually messaged that gal and told her the difference between taking out $200 from the ATM vs $400 with marrieds or with those with S / Os. Of course, no response. Do you guys even waste your time with this? I'm figuring getting to the point pre-meet is a good way to go. Different cities, different folks. Just glad to see guys on my end holding up their end of the bargain. Do any of you lecture these women about taxes and the trust factor like I do? LOL.[/QUOTE]Sometimes it's best to be patient and just give it time. I don't try to actively change their mind /"educate" about rates. I started talking with one of my SBs in August on SA. Good conversation, we were getting along great, but her expectation was 700/ date. I told her that's more than I can do, but never mentioned anything about the market, average local rates or anything like that. I think mentioning that stuff provokes an instant "so you don't think I'm worth it"-type reaction. So around September, we start talking again, and she tells me she'd love to meet me. I tell her I'd love to, but can't do 700. She says she'll do 500. No thanks. "I'm sorry, I just can't do that, 200 is the most I can do". Again, nothing directed at her, a total "it's not you, it's me". After another couple of weeks, guess what -- another message from her saying she'd love to meet, and 200 is fine.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying it works like that every time. But in my experience, if I try to explain the market / average rates, there's a 0% chance of meeting them. If I let them figure it out for themselves, there's maybe a 20-30% chance of meeting.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2317136]I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.[/QUOTE]Exactly. You said it better while I was typing up my reply.

[QUOTE=JoeBlowDC;2314300]The guy does use all the sites and I am sure CL as well. I think the difference is the cash. He is paying industry rates anywhere from $1 k-$1. 5 k and the entire scene is "scripted". Now if he can get to sign the releases for less then THAT is game! LOL.[/QUOTE]

The industry rate you quoted is girls alreadyy in the Industry with experience. For a fresh face it would be between 300 and 500. Depending on what she does in the shoot. Until a girl gets some exposure and a good reputation, she is not pulling in a grand per. There is just too many girls trying to get into the business.

POF looks to be a total waste of my time. Not recommended. As they only allow for catfishing. But they have lots and lots of trannies, pros and big girls to choose from.

Never lecture them. Let them figure it out themselves. Just express sadness that they are beyond your budget, because you would love to see them. Many (but not all) come back if you are a gentlemen. Helps if you look good and have a sense of humore as well.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2317136]I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2317684]Never lecture them. Let them figure it out themselves. Just express sadness that they are beyond your budget, because you would love to see them. Many (but not all) come back if you are a gentlemen. Helps if you look good and have a sense of humore as well.[/QUOTE]I was struck wondering about the security of IluvSmellyFish's wallet while he was in the shower.

[QUOTE=Golfcart;2317789]I was struck wondering about the security of IluvSmellyFish's wallet while he was in the shower.[/QUOTE]When I said "I let them know I enjoyed my time with them. " I didn't mean to say that I would have that conversation after a trip to the FC. My general approach is to have that discussion at the M&G.

Also, IMHO, its a lot easier having the conversation about gifts and allowances in person rather than over text, e-mail, or through the site messaging. There's just too much that can be lost in translation. And you can't convey tone very well with the written word. I've found out the hard way, that writing something can often lead to confusion (this response to clarify my last post being case in point).

So yes, after receiving wisdom from the board, I like to be as direct as possible about expectations either at the end of the M&G but especially before we go to the FC. But I also like to be very flexible as well, and have found that some girls don't like to discuss allowances or gifts at all. Again, the wisdom of this forum has taught me that there are some girls that are very happy to be taken out on a very nice date, crave a certain type of experience, and then anything on top of that is just gravy for them. There are of course others that are essentially UTR types, but I'd hate to scare away a perfectly nice girl by texting her about expectations. Especially if she's timid. I've found that what works best for me is having the "expectations" discussion during M&G, since it lets me feel out a POT and tailor my game to her needs. It also, and as you mentioned, helps keep the SB I end up bringing back to the FC from doing something we'd both regret. Like compromising the security of my wallet while I'm asleep or in the shower.

Will post my adventures soon. Just need to find a good solid chunk of time.

Hope all are enjoying all the bowl has to offer!

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2317136]I've find myself using a technique that some of the more experienced bretheren have recommended on the forum. Basically, if the pot complains about the gift your willing to share with her, to simply let her know that you enjoyed your time with her, would very much like to see her, and that she should contact you if she has a change of mind / heart.

All markets are different, but if a sb is looking for a $1 k + a month allowance, there are very few men that can afford that kind of financial committment. This of course varies from market to market. Then if you take the number of women on these sites into account, you have to figure that even if there are a bunch of men with enough dispoable income to finance that kind of lifestyle, they will already have an sb.

Time, reality, and the number of true assholes in the world have a way of making a laid back, nice guy look very very attractive.[/QUOTE]Point taken and great advice. Now that I'm hunting, I see some of these profiles and rants and laugh but it irks me that they don't know the value of a dollar or they are in fantasy-land. There are a few, true SBs with financial requirements that are just way out of and will never be in my league, but if they're well-written, to-the-point and the pics match (even if she is not my type) I get it and stay away. The ones complaining that have grievous spelling mistakes and / or horrible grammar and demanding a ton irk me. I almost want to reply 'A true SB would at least be smart enough to spell-check her profile. ' Thanks again for the advice. I'll calm my jets. And thanks to the other gents who also provided great advice and concurred. Just happened to pick this reply to respond to.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2317452]POF looks to be a total waste of my time. Not recommended. As they only allow for catfishing. But they have lots and lots of trannies, pros and big girls to choose from.[/QUOTE]POF is crap. The messaging system is absurd no matter what you're looking for. I got frustrated and created a female account using some randy's pics just to get a woman's perspective and got about 30-40 emails in the first hour without any way to sort through anyone. Got the account deleted by POF the next morning LOL. It's great if you like trailer trash and severely overweight gals looking for attention. Just my 2 cents. .

So I'm relatively young myself but have hooked up a couple time on the sugar daddy sites, I have been using sd4 me but recently tried SA and man the girls are a world of difference, much better looking. I haven't upgraded my profile and messaged anyone, just started checking out profiles, and I happened to stumble upon a girl I went to high school with. I've always wanted to bang this girl since I can remember so I got a little excited when I saw her.

This girl has always been the rave and party type, always going out, traveling, going on cruises, etc, while only being a waitress so it's not a shock for me to see her on there.

My question is, should I even attempt to message her? My thoughts were that she would probably get freaked and delete her profile or if we did arrange anything it could come back to bite me in the ass somehow if we broke it off. Thoughts?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2317452]POF looks to be a total waste of my time. Not recommended. As they only allow for catfishing. But they have lots and lots of trannies, pros and big girls to choose from.[/QUOTE]I'm guessing the high rate of trannies or pros is probably specific to your geographic area. I honestly never tried finding SBs on POF , but I sure got some excellent free pussy there before. I don't think I've had an account there in at least 4 years though, so who knows. Anything "free" is going to get trampled on by riff-raff one way or another.

Another possibility you might try is [URL]Match.com[/URL]. I used to encounter SBs on that site back in the day when dedicated SB sites didn't even exist. You can recognize the POTs by the age range they specify in their dating criteria. If you see anyone under 30 who has said she will date someone up to age 70, there's your POT. The income levels they specify they are looking for are also a very good clue.

Now when I say POTS I mean potential true SBs, if that is in fact what you want. Match is not a good mechanism for hooking up with by-the-hour UTR girls, at least not in the zones I hunted. L. A. Is notorious for hookers and a high dude count, so that may be the results you get in southern California but it was not what I found.

Sometimes you get these foreigners (Latina, Asian, East Europe etc) who either just graduated or soon will, or foreigners staying with family who are here on a temp visa and have some serious motivation to get a green card. The free sex you can get in these situations can be incredible. The psychological pressure created in the situation where there is a timer ticking and she only has a certain amount of time to prove to you that she's the best fuck on the planet creates sexual sessions that can only be dreamed about in the SD world.

I think once folks have gotten used to quick hookups from the SD sites, they are somewhat spoiled when they return to actual dating -- at least it has that effect on me. Real dating, whether with true SBs or girls truly looking for someone they like to be around is NOT easy, NOT fast, and does not happen if pre-determined amounts of money are discussed.

In fact it can be a hell of a lot of work, but it can pay off in droves when you've got a hot young thing on your arm that is truly exclusive to you, and with you because she likes fucking and being around you as opposed to needing an ATM machine.

I got spoiled by SD sites too. But I think if I split up from my SO tomorrow, I would use SD sites to line up easy pussy for the times when I had no other option, and spend the rest of my efforts looking for free pussy on Match, POF, maybe even Tinder or some of the newer options (I don't even know what all the new options are these days honestly -- overcoming that learning curve would be my first challenge). The reason is that Match / POF et all can be a shitload of work up front, but once you strike gold it tends to pay off big. Lots of sex over a much longer period of time and mostly without paying for it. But in terms of fucking someone new every day -- no, its not a good option for that. There is no solution to that other than hookers.