"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Almighty;2299878]Just TOFTT.

Not impressed. Can't really search the members even after you pay. YOu can get local results, close to you, but at least in my area, most of them say they haven't logged in in months.

By comparison, on SA, there's about 10, maybe 15 that currently log in every day, every couple days. SO they are at least active. THe ones on NSA, seem to be old or something.

ANd there's no way to filter the search results to only those that have been on the site in the last X days or something. On SA you can filter the results to the "most recently active" or something like that.

Save your $$, unless you just want to blow 30 bucks and if you do, make sure you go into your billing history / account section and turn off "auto renew" if you don't like the site, or you'll get dinged again next month.[/QUOTE]Thank you Sir!! Well done!!

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2300400]More than once I've thought, if I were the owner of a successful dating site, since there's no way to patent or protect the concept from competition, what sort of strategy could I employ to stay in business? The most effective one I could come up with would be to completely saturate cyberspace with lots of useless knock-off sites that do little more than send people running back to the main site. I'm not saying the owner of SA owns that particular site or any of other alternative sites, I'm just saying it could be a very useful tactic for preventing competitor efforts from succeeding.[/QUOTE]Having worked directly and as a 3rd party contractor for every major and most minor dating sites on the net for the last 10 years, including all the major SD sites, I can tell you that what you have postulated is rare but not unheard of. Its mostly relegated to the "get laid tonite" or "fuck a MILF tonite" type of operators. Those sites typically have a 100 to 1 ratio of men to women. They are BS and there is never a reason to join them.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2300964]Having worked directly and as a 3rd party contractor for every major and most minor dating sites on the net for the last 10 years, including all the major SD sites, I can tell you that what you have postulated is rare but not unheard of. Its mostly relegated to the "get laid tonite" or "fuck a MILF tonite" type of operators. Those sites typically have a 100 to 1 ratio of men to women. They are BS and there is never a reason to join them.[/QUOTE]I know Brandon Wade owns SA, WhatsYourPrice, and MissTravel. I'm sure the two lesser used sites are probably more legitimate attempts to diversify his line than they are to be red herrings that help diffuse competitive attempts, but the line is a little blurry there in my opinion. I have no insider knowledge or reason to believe he has connections to any of the other sites. I do believe however that if he was deploying the tactic I mentioned, I'm sure he would create spin off companies in ways that made it hard to link back to him. For example [URL]PassTheSugar.com[/URL], which mysteriously was mentioned pretty much out of the clear blue on a recent daytime talk show with a broad audience has sketchy / missing contact info and does not mention much about the holding corp. Makes one wonder. I don't know where they came from but they must have some serious marketing muscle to get it mentioned on the air like that. This was on The Doctors. It even sounded like one of the doctors (the black girl with the blonde hair) was almost endorsing the practice of sugar-babying, defending it by indicating there was nothing new or abnormal about young girls looking for lifestyle upgrades from older wealthy men. I bet she's been an SB once or twice herself, maybe it even put her through med school.

GPS rules the day.

Pot #1 (ex).

9/9 mixed 20 yr old wants $1500/ week. You can't make this stuff up. Went dark after I countered. My guess is that these girls have valued their pussies based on the BS they are reading in these girlie blogs. I've read some of the crap and they say "real" SDs will pay $3000 to 5000 minimum / month. Maybe they are but the girls who want "no sex" and big bucks are still on the site every day, so I guess they haven't found that elusive rich daddy yet. They will not prostitute themselves for less than that number.

Pot #2.

8/8 20 yr old so far willing to meet in the FC for $$ . Need to do the M&G 1st.

Pot #3.

Most likely prospect is 40 something and 9/9 /? M&G on the books and I am actually looking forward to her. She sounds like she has her shit together but I am fearful that she will demand high dollar. I decided not to discuss $ before hand. Hollywood, this one looks like your fantasy to nab a MILF.

These young girls seem to be harder to nail down in my market. I suspect the competition is tighter and money offers are higher.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2301507]

9/9 mixed 20 yr old wants $1500/ week. You can't make this stuff up. Went dark after I countered. My guess is that these girls have valued their pussies based on the BS they are reading in these girlie blogs. I've read some of the crap and they say "real" SDs will pay $3000 to 5000 minimum / month. [/QUOTE]One of the things I establish early on (usually right in my profile) is that I prefer to be contacted by SBs who are mature enough to understand the difference between a REAL SB / SD arrangement and the hyped fantasy version that you see on TV.

I don't know to what extent it has acted as a bullshit filter and saved me from time wasters, because of course if it really put anyone off I would never hear from them or know that it worked. But I do hear a lot of them trying to convince me right off the bat how mature they are for their age (especially in the 18-22 range). They always have this vision of themselves as very level-headed, but at that age rarely are.

I have had some of them try to test the market by saying "well I've done this before and gotten $1500 for a weekend". And, these were stunners at the upper end so it's possible someone did pay them that for a weekend. But I quickly tell them I'm not interested in committing to that much time with someone I just met, nor paying that much.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2301507]I decided not to discuss $ before hand. Hollywood, this one looks like your fantasy to nab a MILF.[/QUOTE]I was thinking about just messaging every hot MILF within 30 miles of me to see what happens and then post the results. I already know its going to be a joke. But if I get bored over my Christmas vacation maybe I'll do it. In seven years of trying I had 2 positive responses from super hot MILF's. One was too far away (about 60 miles) and the other one I fucked up and didn't follow up fast enough.

I got a frantic call from an SD last night asking if I knew a certain girl. This girl was my worst SB experience ever in some ways. She has ensconced herself in the poor guys house and started hoarding obsessively. He said he spent 15 k in the last month and couldn't get rid of her. I told him to call the police, have her arrested (she has warrants) and then throw all her shit in storage (under his name). She will never make the payments and lose everything he bought her. The bill will be in his name but after they sell her shit he would just have to pay the balance to avoid it going on his credit report.

I had to do this myself when I had her here. There are some psycho chics out there. But it's still cheaper than being married.

My biggest problem in the last 2 months. My newest princess thought I owed her an extra $ after 10 dates. I kept track and I had actually overpaid her 40 dollars. This included all meals, trips to the store and the cash paid out combined to an average of $ per date. Live and learn. I have her at a 7/9/10/10 at this point. Cute enough, killer spinner body, always happy, and an insatiable porn star in the FC. She is the first girl I have not been able to outfuck in years. Not counting the above mentioned psycho and one that had a never being able to cum problem. My new girl never stops cumming and never wants to stop. But after 2 hours has no complaints and neither do I.

After The Big Fail the other night, my SO wanted to follow up on how different sex is for women than men. So I was on the receiving end of this treatise on how much effort it is to work up to it (uh, ok), then the cleanup afterward (well, ok, yeah, but it's not like the guy doesn't have some of that too), and how it's just such a Big Deal (tm). Which if you have nearly zero sex drive, ok, I suppose I can't argue with any of that. And I'm not a woman, so I wouldn't know.

Yet today my SB had no trouble "working up to" ripping my pants off, and going at it for hours on end, with at least a 4:1 orgasm ratio. And if we had more time she was definitely up for more. I feel bad, as my background stress level is so high these days that I have trouble keeping up with her.

But it's just amazing how much having an actual sex drive makes those pesky logistical details fade into the background noise.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2302213]After The Big Fail the other night, my SO wanted to follow up on how different sex is for women than men. So I was on the receiving end of this treatise on how much effort it is to work up to it (uh, ok), then the cleanup afterward (well, ok, yeah, but it's not like the guy doesn't have some of that too), and how it's just such a Big Deal (tm). Which if you have nearly zero sex drive, ok, I suppose I can't argue with any of that. And I'm not a woman, so I wouldn't know.

Yet today my SB had no trouble "working up to" ripping my pants off, and going at it for hours on end, with at least a 4:1 orgasm ratio. And if we had more time she was definitely up for more. I feel bad, as my background stress level is so high these days that I have trouble keeping up with her.

But it's just amazing how much having an actual sex drive makes those pesky logistical details fade into the background noise.[/QUOTE]I would say the average SB has an above average sex drive. I also think the average SD has an above average sex drive. Or at least the willingness to do something about whatever level of sex drive they do have. Something most guys wont do. But this game is no different than any other. The more you work at it the better you get. And with SB's the reward far outweighs the risk or the necessity to settle for less.

Totally off the subject. I was thinking all this time what a no game loser Bill Cosby was until I saw something on TV about Somnophilia. I guess he could have paid girls to pretend they were sleeping (or easily found some willing girls to role play) but maybe that wasn't enough for the guy (he had to have the real thing).

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2302213]After The Big Fail the other night, my SO wanted to follow up on how different sex is for women than men. So I was on the receiving end of this treatise on how much effort it is to work up to it (uh, ok), then the cleanup afterward (well, ok, yeah, but it's not like the guy doesn't have some of that too), and how it's just such a Big Deal (tm). Which if you have nearly zero sex drive, ok, I suppose I can't argue with any of that. And I'm not a woman, so I wouldn't know.

Yet today my SB had no trouble "working up to" ripping my pants off, and going at it for hours on end, with at least a 4:1 orgasm ratio. And if we had more time she was definitely up for more. I feel bad, as my background stress level is so high these days that I have trouble keeping up with her.

But it's just amazing how much having an actual sex drive makes those pesky logistical details fade into the background noise.[/QUOTE]When I read your prior story, I was too busy to comment at the time I read it, but hoped to remember to come back around and comment on it. Unfortunately I forgot to do so, so as fate will have it your second mention of it reminded me to come back to this. I guess everyone's experience varies, but I don't know of anyone who is in a marriage or a long-term live-together relationship for any length of time where the sexual magic doesn't dissipate far quickly than anyone wants it to. The same is true of my own relationship. My GF is okay (not great) in bed and never denies me sex. I have this thing about dreaming about sex and waking up in the middle of the night with a boner that needs resolving, and I'm sometimes amazed that she just accommodates without complaining about missing sleep or whatever. But, sex with her is not something I look forward to all day. Even if she was amazingly skilled and horny 24/7, the dissipation of excitement would still occur over time, because of lack of variety. There's really no getting around it. So, if it makes you feel any better I'd just consider it a normal part of marriage. I really think that anyone who wants to get married understands that it is not a ticket to free, easy sex. Quite the opposite -- it is basically saying there are so many other qualities about this woman that make you want to be with her that you are willing to give up great sex (because it's simply non-sustainable in the long-term of being with the same person day after day).

I always say never take relationship advice from someone you meet on a monger forum, so take my opinion with a grain of salt of course but there it is. It sounds like you're getting what you need elsewhere, so I would just focus on risk mitigation and making sure you never get caught, then life is good.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2302249]My GF is okay (not great) in bed and never denies me sex. I have this thing about dreaming about sex and waking up in the middle of the night with a boner that needs resolving, and I'm sometimes amazed that she just accommodates without complaining about missing sleep or whatever. But, sex with her is not something I look forward to all day. Even if she was amazingly skilled and horny 24/7, the dissipation of excitement would still occur over time, because of lack of variety. There's really no getting around it. So, if it makes you feel any better I'd just consider it a normal part of marriage.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I didn't any illusions about marriage and sex, at least not when it became directly relevant. Our mismatch in sex drive was apparent pretty early, and as you say, it was counterbalanced by a lot of other positives. Right now we're in the throes of that relentless grind known as balancing careers with parenting, and the shared interests / activities that brought us together have long since left the building. Nothing challenges a relationship quite like kids, that's for damned sure. It saps you of all the things that used to keep you anchored, and piles on stresses that are unreal. But as you say, this isn't exactly a relationship advice forum.

While I'm empathize with the notion that abundance of sex does not substitute for quality, I'd like to think that if my SO were as accommodating as yours that the barrier to the bowl would have been much higher for me. Your SO at least makes the effort (and according to my SO, that's quite a bit of effort), which is commendable at the very least.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2302314]Yeah, I didn't any illusions about marriage and sex, at least not when it became directly relevant. Our mismatch in sex drive was apparent pretty early, and as you say, it was counterbalanced by a lot of other positives. Right now we're in the throes of that relentless grind known as balancing careers with parenting, and the shared interests / activities that brought us together have long since left the building. Nothing challenges a relationship quite like kids, that's for damned sure. It saps you of all the things that used to keep you anchored, and piles on stresses that are unreal. But as you say, this isn't exactly a relationship advice forum.

While I'm empathize with the notion that abundance of sex does not substitute for quality, I'd like to think that if my SO were as accommodating as yours that the barrier to the bowl would have been much higher for me. Your SO at least makes the effort (and according to my SO, that's quite a bit of effort), which is commendable at the very least.[/QUOTE]I always think sex drive is more psychological than physiological. In the early days of my sexual activity, I found myself bluntly pursuing sex, only to get turned down (which is of course easy to understand when its one 12 year old trying to bang another). Something I realized into my teens, though, is that the more I am in pursuit of it, the more they will resist. I don't even know if that's a female thing as much as human nature. Basically I've found women sometimes like to play the role of the chaser instead of the chased. I've got an entire repertoire of moves I've developed over the years (trade secrets that I think I will save for the book. LOL) that seem to work fairly consistently. The basic idea is not tricky or slick, it's just reverse psychology. Making them believe that you're indifferent to whether you have sex or not allows them to have enough mental elbow room to start noticing their own sexual urges. It doesn't always work, I've dated some that are just less sexual as a person than I am, and to that end they may always have relatively low sex drives, but sooner or later just before or just after their period (after seems more often) they do get horny, and if you can time this move right it can get the ball back in your court consistently.

If an example helps. Early on my current relationship, I realized my GF was not the horniest or most adventurous girl I ever dated. I was definitely happy with sex, but in some ways felt like I was dating a virgin compared to some of my previous GFs, or just someone real inexperienced. It's not that she doesn't like sex, she's just somewhat passive at it skill-wise. So, what I would do early on is try to preemptively jerk off on the days nearing her period. That way I'm less likely to randomly seek sex in the middle of the night. Sometime during that timeframe, she hit her "horny spell", just a hormonal thing that comes when it does and sort of hinted she was in the mood, so I just kind of begrudgingly go along, complaining a little bit about how tired I am. LOL. But, what happens at this point is she realize that sex is something that I can take or leave too. It's not this power that she holds over me, which is how a lot of women view it. So, she starts to place the same value on sex as I do, taking it as something that shouldn't really be taken for granted and that you cannot be sure you'll receive when you want it. Hope that makes sense -- it's just the act of turning it around and letting them pursue it once and a while. I've done pretty much the same thing with countless women in the past. I've used it to seal the deal with women who might have never let me bang them if I continued to pursue it.

Now, granted, that tactic usually has nothing to do with how I handle SBs so I may be drifting a bit here. And, also as you said adding kids into the mix can completely change the picture for a number of reasons, if nothing else just the sheer amount of time dealing with them takes and the stress they generate. So, I don't want to imply that this will produce results for everyone -- I've never had kids so I can only speculate. But, I do know it is human nature to want what we can't have, so whenever I get the chance to use that knowledge to my advantage and adjust their mind to the believe that sex is a mutual perk and not just something I want, it seems to work.

At least, I should say, that trick is what I think contributes to my girlfriend's willingness to put out and sometimes initiate screwing. I've even dated girls in the past who, after we broke up, would call me up and ask if we could get together for occasional fuck sessions, just because they occasionally got the urge -- that's a great feeling if only for the ego boost. These were the same girls who were resisting letting me in their pants at all when I first met them. I'm pretty sure the only reason that happens is because they perceive the desire for sex as evenly distributed. If they perceive an imbalance of desire, they will just resist by saying no.

Communicated with a 40 something married MILF on SA a month or so ago. I drive the Norfolk to DC I-95 corridor a couple of times a month and she lives along the way. Scheduled a M&G one week, followed by our first FC meeting two weeks later. Claims I am I am her third man ever. Met at a hotel and she was rocking, multi orgasmic and clearly deprived on the man stick. Continued convo after and I got a bit nasty talking about taking her back door. Said she had never done that, I said I was going to make it happen. She met me at hotel again tonight and we went at it like horny teenagers. I took her cherry ass as part of the process. I can't tell you what a thrill it was do her. I was careful and gentle but by the time we were at the end of the movie she was bucking back into me like her life depended on it. Took her to a nice dinner after, returned to the room and did it again. A great memory created. Taking the anal cherry of a married woman and having her love it was an incredible experience for an old guy like me. And I forgot to give her my gift when I sent her on her way. I had asked her to text me when she got home to make sure she arrived safely (we had shared an entire bottle of wine) and she never even mentioned it. Life is good (or at least tonight it is).

Never forget Biology 101. Women are genetically programmed to attract a sperm donor who will inseminate her and then protect the family while those progeny are being raised. After that is accomplished the game is over. She is done.

All women desire maintainence and support, married or not (sugars, mistresses, etc). Men spend an inordinant amount of money on them.

Ergo, why would we ever get married? Well, we operate on the basis of the optimal condition of love. Our new wives -to-be are still in the "got to have sex because they want babies " stage, and are taking care of business. Once the happy couple is esconced in suburban living with the white picket fence and have 2. 5 kids, life stresses hit and the sex tapers right on down and out.

What is to be done about it? Don't get married. Follow Hollywood's guide to non marital harmony. A sugar is dischargable without penalty such a alimony. So be a profssional Sugar Daddy which will work as long as the money is adequate to play the game. If you don't have any money, marry a girl with it.

If already married ,well ,we are all here aren't we ?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2302681]Never forget Biology 101. Women are genetically programmed to attract a sperm donor who will inseminate her and then protect the family while those progeny are being raised. After that is accomplished the game is over. She is done.
[/QUOTE]This is definitely what typically happens, and the physical reasons and causes for this are undeniable. However, what boggles the mind is the sheer quantity of these married women that have no problems with sex drive once they divorce or become separated. Some of the hottest and horniest sex I've ever had has been from single moms that no doubt became less interested in sex with their husbands while raising kids with them. So, for that reason, specific medical conditions withstanding, I believe it is way more psychological than (and therefore treatable by psychological means) than many realize.

But, as you said after the kids are raised they are often nearing menopausal symptoms and that is indeed a different story.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2302928]This is definitely what typically happens, and the physical reasons and causes for this are undeniable. However, what boggles the mind is the sheer quantity of these married women that have no problems with sex drive once they divorce or become separated. Some of the hottest and horniest sex I've ever had has been from single moms that no doubt became less interested in sex with their husbands while raising kids with them. So, for that reason, specific medical conditions withstanding, I believe it is way more psychological than (and therefore treatable by psychological means) than many realize.

But, as you said after the kids are raised they are often nearing menopausal symptoms and that is indeed a different story.[/QUOTE]Sex gets boring with the same partner after a while, therefore the partners get less caring about pleasing the other and the relationship spirals downhill. I do think women enjoy sex in the right circumstance -primarily when they are looking for support. Why is it that divorcees get separated, go to the gym, diet, and regain their attractive appearance and attitude? I am seeing my first MILF divorcee soon. We shall see. Call me cynical but the mental and physical quality is much improved in the 20's over the 40's.

Menopause? There is nothing good that happens sexually after that time of life except they can't get pregnant and therefore might be less inhibited.

By the way, men stop trying as well. We can get fat, slovenly, and stop trying to impress our mates, therefore turning them off. A new guy will have his best face on and will be better, at least for while.