"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=DogSun;2270340]I'm just now starting to use SA regularly. I was wondering if you guys are typically explicit about cash for sex in your messages on there? I've always used regular dating sites in the past to find sb's and was never really concerned about LEO. With SA being pretty obvious as to it's purpose, I'm a little worried about getting caught up in some kind of sting. I'm sure I'm being paranoid, and I've never heard of LEO targeting sugar daddy sites, but figured I would ask your guy's opinion.[/QUOTE]Well if you look at my post a couple of messages back, the biggest problem I see is that you say SA is obvious to it's purpose. That has not been anything remotely close to my experience. There is everything there from hookers to mainstream women (younger or older) who are attracted to men of success (duh) but would like marriage out of it all. Some of them really don't know what they want. Most of them are gold diggers one way or the other, the way I see it, so I usually seize the opportunity to paste their face with my man-glue whenever I get the opportunity, even if that opportunity is rare given my day to day life with my GF.

I think what you'll actually find on the site varies quite a bit depending on where you are. The city of Vegas attracts a certain type, as does L. A. My personal opinion? Easier to have fun there, harder to find real gold. I actually looked at Southern Cali many years back, and running hard statistics on dating sites led me to believe the male: female ratio was not in my favor for regular dating, but then I was looking at regular dating and not SB fun at the time. Depending on your demographic preference for girls, some locations may be better than others.

Bottom line is that not all sugar baby's are hookers. They are almost unconditionally gold-diggers in the sense that they strongly believe their pussy is good enough to deserve the best of the best. Luckily for you and I, they are right and we should shower them with the best man-juice we can offer.

But making flat money offers over the wire to girls is going to come back to haunt you sooner or later. I wish people wouldn't do that. It pollutes the waters and confuses craigslist hookers with real sugar babies. Sugar babies want to date you, they are looking for a guy that can take care of them and make them comfortable for life. They will screen you with the same level of prejudice they screen any other date, but the good news is that unless you're some sort of fraud, the very fact you are on an SD website indicates you are successful, good at what you do, and can take care of them either as a mistress or potentially more. They may or may not care that you're married -- they are not necessarily looking to fall in love, but some of them are. If you are only encountering girls interested in hourly hookups or prepaid arrangements, they are just UTR escorts and I really wish they would find a new venue before they fuck it all up for the rest of us.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2270389]Well if you look at my post a couple of messages back, the biggest problem I see is that you say SA is obvious to it's purpose. [/QUOTE]Hey Jeet, thanks for the reply. What I meant was, LEO would see it as being a means for prostitution and could use it for a sting type operation, like they do with backpage.

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd;2270344]You don't spit in the wind.

You don't pull the mask of that old Lone Ranger.

And you don't mess around with HG.

What you SHOULD do is read his posts without acting like a know-it-all; you might learn a little bit about how to make it in the Sugar Bowl.[/QUOTE]Please ignore all trolls. They only want attention. Thank you.

RB.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2270405]Hey Jeet, thanks for the reply. What I meant was, LEO would see it as being a means for prostitution and could use it for a sting type operation, like they do with backpage.[/QUOTE]This has been addressed in this space many times before. LE wants a big sweep, so they will not get that targeting isolated SDs courting a POT SB. There have been a few cases but it is rare. They want a big bang for their efforts. As Jeez says, just don't mention sex and money. I emphasize paying an allowance for their time. I no longer specify that they must provide sexual services. There are more delicate ways to get around that.

My Asian Pot bolted for a bigger allowance. In my experience Asians are more likely to demand higher donations.

Re: Hollywood . He is the Godfather of the sugar space in my opinion . While I can't begin to identify with his success my life circumstances are quite different . My budget and freedom have contracted way below what is necessary to get a full stable of lasses. $30K /yr is what is required to have a robust social calendar and I am under $10 right now .

Got my sweet and sexual SB weekly ,which is barely enough but it does keep the cobwebs out anyway . 3 times/week would do it for me . I am not able to perform at Hollywoods level .

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2270698]This has been addressed in this space many times before. LE wants a big sweep, so they will not get that targeting isolated SDs courting a POT SB. There have been a few cases but it is rare. They want a big bang for their efforts. As Jeez says, just don't mention sex and money. I emphasize paying an allowance for their time. I no longer specify that they must provide sexual services. There are more delicate ways to get around that.

My Asian Pot bolted for a bigger allowance. In my experience Asians are more likely to demand higher donations.

Re: Hollywood . He is the Godfather of the sugar space in my opinion . While I can't begin to identify with his success my life circumstances are quite different . My budget and freedom have contracted way below what is necessary to get a full stable of lasses. $30K /yr is what is required to have a robust social calendar and I am under $10 right now .

Got my sweet and sexual SB weekly ,which is barely enough but it does keep the cobwebs out anyway . 3 times/week would do it for me . I am not able to perform at Hollywoods level .[/QUOTE]With no S. O. all I have is free time. I would imagine most attached guys get 8 to 15 romps a month with theirs. Anything less than 8 and you need to have a heart to heart.

I travel a fair amount for business, so if my schedule allows I usually try and find an SB companion for at least 1 night on my trips. I've had pretty good luck at this, with only 1 experience I would consider a dud if we made it to the FC. Last week I sent out requests to a bunch of potentials in the city I was traveling to. One of the profiles mentioned that they were a pair and would only see someone as a pair. I sent a message to her and she responded. During our texting she said that her and her friend were an actual couple in a long-term relationship. I have had escort 3-somes in the past, but I always found them lacking in passion and real sexuality. There's nothing that turns me on more than seeing two women making out with each other and I just never sensed real passion my past experiences. The requested compensation was way beyond what I was comfy with for an SB type thing so I declined. She was really sweet and nice in our text exchanges and assured me a great time (who hasn't heard THAT before? I got to thinking that by escort standards it was really kind of a deal. I texted her back with a few conditions, min 2 hours, they are totally interactive, pics, etc. She agreed to the conditions and we were on. I have to admit I was preparing for a set-up. I've been around the block a few times and this just seemed TGTBT. On the day of I almost canceled a few times, but we got into a text conversation where she was asking a lot about me and I just got the sense they were on the up and up.

Finally the hour arrived and they showed up at my door. The one I had been communicating with was a very attractive slim blonde, her friend was a little on the thicker side, but not fat by any standards. We sat down, had a glass of wine and they related their story. They had both only been with men until they met each other. They worked in the same place, became friends, and then lovers. They said they sometimes missed having a man and decided together was the way to do it while making some $$$ at the same time. Eventually we just kind of looked at each other and it was on! In 10 seconds I could see they weren't lying. I've never seen two women in all the porn I've watched as hungry for each other as these two were. And the best thing hungry for me too! The next 2+ hours were a flurry of kissing, licking, sucking and f*ing. The thicker one was particularly sexual and just couldn't get enough dick. They both were incredible kissers. It was a totally amazing experience! Well into my top 5 experiences and possibly 1 or 2. They claim to be very picky about who they see, only having one other regular, but who knows if that's true. Although everything else she told be certainly turned out to be true, LOL I'm back down in that area in January and can not wait to see them again.

Now, the bad part. By this board's standards I know you're going to think I was nuts, but I agreed to $750 for my time with them. That's waaaay above what I normally give SBs for my out of town dates. The way I looked at it though, top level escort doubles get minimum $600 per hour and I've never seen under $1000 for two hours. These girls were way beyond any escort doubles I've been with and were there for way over 2 hours. Where would we be without a good rationalization every day? Haha Anyway, in mind mind well worth the cash.

Good hunting,

Travelin.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2270405]Hey Jeet, thanks for the reply. What I meant was, LEO would see it as being a means for prostitution and could use it for a sting type operation, like they do with backpage.[/QUOTE]Ok, I do see what you're saying.

My own opinion is that these sites are likely not at risk for sting operations. Hooker / john stings are much easier for regional (city / county) LE agencies to complete successfully using BP, CL, etc. , and they want the most "bang for their buck" with regard to budget money. Trying to bust people off a SD site might result in a few successful cases for them, but is going to result in a lot of expensive legal cases where they have to spend tons of money on individual cases that surf the gray area between sex for hire and the simple act of rich men dating hot young girls and helping them out unofficially. That sort of thing is every prosecutor's nightmare, and no regional agency is going to go there.

It would require action at a federal level to have any impact on SD sites, and this is what we really have to worry about. I still don't think we need to be worried about individual sting operations -- the feds would not be foolish to spend big bucks on individual misdemeanor cases, some of which might end up embarrassing some rich and powerful married men with dirty secrets but who have not really committed any crimes, technically. What a nightmare that would be for the feds.

However what they COULD do, and what I fear, is find a way to shut down operations of SD sites through some sort of legislative act, and that could decimate these websites overnight. I'm sure creative horny and money-hungry people will find a way to carry on using regular dating sites. Sugar baby / sugar daddy relationships have existed since the beginning of time and will continue to do so, but it is very possible that changes in federal law could make things a hell of a lot less convenient for everyone, and that's why I don't want to see SD sites used for escorting.

I think the notion that "the real SBs" of the non-escort type are keen to be a part of the SDs life and take two $hits about him being successful or what not is not quite true.

I am quite certain "my friend' had the pleasure of the company of at least two "real SBs" absolutely non-escort type who were content with seeing him in a totally "escort-like" setting, for a couple of hours in a hotel, paid arrangements for purely intimate purposes. I think the SBs actually wanted to totally compartmentalize the encounter, so that "my friend" had no part in their "real" life once the sugar relationship started. Interestingly, while "my friend" went on dates before sugaring, he had a lot more in a way of intense engaging conversations and text exchanges. Once sugaring started, these stopped.

By doing that, it is almost like a pretty intelligent woman tells her SD that "You have to chose between my mind and my pu $$why. I know that as a man you will inevitably and predictably chose the later. But I am not going to let you have both. Now all you are going to get. Is what you paid for".

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2270389] If you are only encountering girls interested in hourly hookups or prepaid arrangements, they are just UTR escorts and I really wish they would find a new venue before they fuck it all up for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DogSun;2270340]I'm just now starting to use SA regularly. I was wondering if you guys are typically explicit about cash for sex in your messages on there? I've always used regular dating sites in the past to find sb's and was never really concerned about LEO. With SA being pretty obvious as to it's purpose, I'm a little worried about getting caught up in some kind of sting. I'm sure I'm being paranoid, and I've never heard of LEO targeting sugar daddy sites, but figured I would ask your guy's opinion.[/QUOTE]As has been stated here before, I would not be overly concerned about getting caught up in a sting when dealing with women on SA. That seems to be far too much work with very little return for LEO. They want a larger return for the effort, thus the attention to CL and Backpage. In order to protect myself further, I never discuss actual sugar until we have our meet and greet. I will tell them while e-mailing that I am looking to spoil, not support. I never discuss an amount at that point. LEO won't agree to meet for lunch, dinner or cocktails if you are not throwing figures around. If you can get them to the M&G, and you treat them nice, you stand a good chance of taking them to the FC in a short period of time. That's all many of them are looking for. I am shocked at how many I meet that are more interested in being treated with some respect than they are the money.

What is the SA site? And where can I find it?

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2266205]In a testament for how quickly things can change in the bowl (see previous post), I have three M&G lined up for this week:

A- One with the girl who's phone presumably died on an earlier attempt. The only reason for a 2nd chance here is the quality of the communication (phone incident aside) and the hotness of the pix. She's the one who proposed the new date, time and place. That seems like a good sign.

B- One with a MILF who seems to know what to expect as she wants to make sure I understand she's not in her pre-kid physical condition. I anticipate a low level of expectation here due to her low-cost town and complex situation.

C- One with another hot girl with a self-described "practical" level of expectation, but I want to test that a bit as she works in a beauty salon.

Let's see what the count is by week's end. Place your bets now.

SM.[/QUOTE]Busy week here gents. I was a bit like Ray Liotta in Good Fellas, juggling a few too many (meat) balls. Here's how it went down.

A- I let her talk me into meeting her at the Top of the Hub in Boston. For those who don't know, it's a posh bar / restaurant atop one of the tallest buildings. Expensive everything, but great view. She arrived 45 min late, though she did text throughout to update me on her status. Tardiness pisses me off to no end since I run a very tight ship (and have to in order to make this work). She did look fantastic (dress, heels, etc). I let her know right away at what time I'd have to leave so that she understand she inadvertently rushed us. Because the bar-bar was full, I asked for a table. Only afterward did it dawn on me that I had just unintentionally put three feet of solid wood between us (the table, not mr johnson). Conversation was OK, but not great. The girl itself would make a fantastic GF: beautiful, intelligent, fit, career aspirations, has a decent part-time job, is going for an advance degree, drives a new Infiniti. But those same traits may not make her a great SB candidate. The parting of the ways was a bit awkward but a barely-there hug on her part. We obviously didn't hit it off. I need to learn to keep M&G low effort on my part. I don't mind the money, but the driving around, parking and waiting was a 3 hr affair I don't have time for. I just sent her an email asking for her thoughts and expressing some doubt on my end. I'm not too keen on trying that again with her.

See- Met this one at a coffee shop in Boston's South End. Note to self: there is zero parking there. Total nightmare. I parked half a mile away and was sweating bullets by the time I got to her 10 min late. You'll gather that she was on time. She looked great. We shared coffee and a few stories of our experience. We're tentative for dinner next week where I need to dot I's and cross T's. She's beautiful, works a low end job and has her own apartment. That's much more SB material I reckon.

Be- This is where it got interesting. Been texting this one for a while. Nearly dropped her due to miscommunication, but I persevered and turns out she was just trying not to come across as pushy. A big plus in my book. We went for an early dinner at a place of her choice: Olive Garden, 30 miles out of the way. No drinks, no desert for her, so it was cheap. She looked just like her pics. Pretty darn cute but not as fit as I usually prefer. I gave her a ride to and fro, so back in the car she lays it out there. We settle on $$ to play, but since she can't host, notel fees come out of her budget (she hopes to be able to host in the near future). We concluded with a little making out.

Having a cancellation in late afternoon the next day I called her on a whim. She was available and would be delighted to see me. So I rushed over, got a room (paid cash, needed $ cash deposit, and had to provide a photo I'd apparently per state law to my great annoyance). I then picked her up, and we went straight at it. It was OK in the sense that there was no rush, though I did sense she was getting a bit annoyed after an hour of pumping in various positions. Hey, not knowing whether there was going to be a 2nd shot on goal, I wanted to make it count. But overall it was fairly uninspired on her part: she complied but didn't really participate. And none of that fun stuff: no anal, no choking, no slapping, no CIM, no kink. And sure enough, the moment I was done she started to get dressed. I was too dumb to address it right then and there, but that's another lesson learned: must spell out this is quiet time, not one and done. I don't think I'll make her a regular she doesn't get me all that excited. But she'd be great to pave over a dry spell.

So there you have it. My first sugar bowl FC visit! Took 2. 5 months on SA. May it be the first of many.

SM.

I was curious how your m&g would go, so it was good to see a quick followup.

Seems like A had the initial phone "problem" to put you on hold while she followed another prospect. Her phone started working again when that didn't come through.

A part timer with a new infiniti has some kind of decent income coming in unless she's still living at home and all her earnings are going towards car payments.

See seems like a good situation, and I see no harm in going along. Has any $ talks been discussed yet? Even if things don't work out, it'll be a learning experience in what you should / shouldn't do with future POTs.

Be isn't a bargain at $$ so if there's no kink available with her, then you can get much cheaper dead fish lays anywhere. Even after she gets her own place, it'd be tough to lower the sugar and $$ just seems much for sex you're not enjoying. Just like you two discussed the sugar and agreed on what she's wanting, bring up what you're wanting in the FC.

Let us know how it goes with the trio.

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2271285]So there you have it. My first sugar bowl FC visit! Took 2. 5 months on SA. May it be the first of many. SM.[/QUOTE]A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Corny but true.

It pays dividends to be direct in dealing with SBs. Optimally, a M&G in a public venue is necessary, whether coffee or dinner, then lay out your requirements.

" none of that fun stuff: no anal, no choking, no slapping, no CIM, no kink. " SloMo.

Kink takes a special type of girl and I would not be overy surprised if a newly minted SB in visit #1 at the FC would not be down for choking, etc. This should be discussed before if that is what you expect, to save you time and money.

Right now I am negotiating price up front before the M&G and it is not working out so well. The technique that works is a midlevel dining experience (don't waste too much money, but impress her a little) followed immediately by a trip to the FC. Do not give them time to think it over. "Let's go up to my place and have a drink / get comfortable / whatever " Most will move right away and no money needs to be discussed until the deed is done. The best fuck of my life bar none was a 18 yr old spinner who came up for a coke and pronounced that she never had sex on the 1st date. Well, soft music was playing, an invitation to dance around the room with nice groping of the goods resulted in weakening of resolve. We danced right into the bedroom, stripped her down to her birthday suit, and pounded the crap out of her sweet pussy for 2 hrs.

Going to visit my webcam baby over the thanksgiving holiday. Its been very hard to feel connected to someone that lives so far away. But since she is somewhat in the area of my relatives I rented a room for 2 days only 15 minutes away from her. This would be the most time allotted to spend with her since we met about 4 months ago. I believe her job drains her of her sexual energy so I am going to ask her to refrain a bit prior to our meet. This will impact her paycheck and I can not afford to totally makeup what she will lose by doing this. If we lived closer she could be my ATF. I find that a lot of the girls on the SD site have very busy lives. It's good if you need to keep some distance, but not so good when you want a little more.