"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Gogreen;2256698]On top of those plutonic arrangement seeking SBs.

For those SD's with SO's, are you guys upfront with being married and needing discretion? I don't know what it is but lately it seems in my market all the potentials are not wanting to deal with a married guy. My game doesn't seem to be the problem, but I am upfront that I'm married, have no intention of leaving and need discretion. The initial conversations go fine but once the subject of being married comes up, they back away and often say they believe in marriage's sanctity and can't proceed. Granted many of them seem like first-timers. Maybe I just got to be more patient and wait til they deal with some of the creepy single SD's and see stable married SD's can be a good option too. Just wanted to vent a little and take the pulse elsewhere.[/QUOTE]I'm not married but have a long term GF. I really don't discuss it at all with most of them, and I typically don't ask about their non-SD dating activities. In a few cases I have and I've found they can sometimes be really cool about everything. Usually I would only open up about my private life after getting to know them better. For example, one of my girls was 18, but she was the oldest of many sisters and I quickly found out she had the maturity and level-headedness that most 35 year olds don't have. I can spot high-achieving people a mile away and she is the type that will actually amount to something in her career later. So I decided to open up to her about my own situation and I let her know she should feel free to talk to me about her boyfriends her age if she wants to, and she certainly did. It's amazing what you can learn about their lifestyle from insider intel like that.

She was not really typical of my preferred type, though. I prefer the "true" SBs -- the ones that are not looking for per-date payment as much as they just have a thing for older successful men and want a boyfriend that fits that criteria. They aren't necessarily expecting a multi-millionaire as much as someone who can take care of them to the point they could have a nice life without working at all. What they really have in mind varies from girl to girl, but to some of them, this means if they are your SB they would be moving in with you sometime soon. Yeah I know, yikes. Or minimum they are expecting to be set up in an apartment long enough to see where things go. I think this may be the type you've been encountering. Those are the types that will care if you're married, because it immediately means they are excluded from "the jackpot" (potentially finding a successful guy they really enjoy being with, marrying him and having security going forward whether they stay married or not). They know that if you're married, it means they will have to adjust their schedule to accommodate yours more often than not (you're going to say "sorry I can't see you" when they need someone to cry or complain about life to. Your emotional support energy is already being consumed by someone else and you're not available in that sense).

But then again there are completely different categories of girls. As Hollywood said, some of them will PREFER married guys, because they may already be in love with someone themselves, and just need extra sources of easy income and the ego stroking they get from being an SB, but they don't want a clinger or someone interfering with the rest of their social life.

Then there are UTR girls and escorts. They couldn't care less because it's a per-date transaction with them.

It just depends on what kind of girl you're going after. The spectrum of types of girls you'll encounter can be dizzying. If you're consistently meeting one type, or seeing recurring patterns in their response or behavior, there may be something in your profile that's attracting only that type, or perhaps it could be your conversational approach that is resulting in a pattern.

One thing I've always tried to do is find ways of making my profile appealing (or at least non-objectionable) while remaining generic. In other words avoid too much specificity. I learned a long time ago to use the same strategy in online civy dating. For example, if I write in my profile that I'm looking for someone for a LTR, it's a bad idea because there are going to be some girls who read it who were just looking for a fun fuck buddy, and if they're hot then I'm all in (in more ways than one). However, if I write "I'm not looking for anything serious" I might repel girls who are looking for something serious. But wait, just because they ARE looking for something serious doesn't mean that they couldn't potentially find themselves hooking up for some casual sex. What they set out to find and what they end up with are often not the same thing.

It all comes down to marketing yourself really. If you see a common pattern in the prospects you're attracting, and they aren't what you want, change your tactic for attracting them.

[QUOTE=Gogreen;2256698]On top of those plutonic arrangement seeking SBs.

For those SD's with SO's, are you guys upfront with being married and needing discretion? I don't know what it is but lately it seems in my market all the potentials are not wanting to deal with a married guy. My game doesn't seem to be the problem, but I am upfront that I'm married, have no intention of leaving and need discretion. The initial conversations go fine but once the subject of being married comes up, they back away and often say they believe in marriage's sanctity and can't proceed. Granted many of them seem like first-timers. Maybe I just got to be more patient and wait til they deal with some of the creepy single SD's and see stable married SD's can be a good option too. Just wanted to vent a little and take the pulse elsewhere.[/QUOTE]I am always upfront about my marital status. And so far I have met zero resistance. My SB2 was oddly interested in what my wife looked like and how often we had sex and what the sex was like. She just seemed to assume that guys get bored when they get older and it was only natural to turn to young woman. When I brought her back to my house (yes I am that daring and scared of hotels and paper trails) she chose to do the deed in the master bedroom instead of the guest room because its was naughtier. SB1 also did not care and actually seemed to be turned on by it. She told me she fantasized about being the mistress and I don't think she was lying.

I have had extensive chats with probably 10 other woman in the last 2 months and not a one cares. Two of my POTs who I chat with on practically a daily basis both seem like the type that are doing this because they want male attention as much as they want some extra cash They are not desperate for money and but it could help with everyday expenses and make their life easier. I get the sense from both of them that they are potentially husband hunting if the right comes along. They are both great, normal, fun to talk to woman. I am not sure if I am lucky or unlucky that our schedules never mesh. I feel like they are the type to lure you in.

You can't turn a h o into a housewife, but can you turn one into a PT SB? I am under no illusions about any exclusivity in the tradition sense. But exclusivity in the sense that you do get treated better while hopefully paying less. I sent this to a pro I met on the sd site that has been trying to get me to pay the $$ for the quick in and out. We are blessed in our fair city with an abundance of smoking hot UTR and pro girls at $$ for as far as the eye can see. And many at $ per HH. If that's your game you would be in hog heaven here.

But that is all you are going to get, and most guys wouldn't want anything more from that type of girl. But you know there is or was some guy they were giving it to for free because they thought that guy thought they were special. The trick is to find one that has some emotional needs. I know that's what most of you guys avoid, but its what I pursue. So anyway I got this pro believing I am interested in something a little off the beaten path. Will I get her. Who knows. But I love A/B testing and marketing strategies in general. Some people say I have a flair for writing the type of ad copy that gets under peoples skin, and as I am not the greedy type I share this with anyone that cares to use it.

SHE ASKS THE PERENNIAL QUESTION.

"So what are you actually looking for".

I ANSWER.

"When I can find it. Something more than a one night stand. I usually get along best with the type of girl most guys don't get mentally and can't satisfy physically. And that most girls don't like in general.

I like girls with personality. Something your pics make me think you have a lot of.

I love a (your description of her here) girl.

I'm very chill and the live and let live type. All I do everyday is work and socialize. If you saw my life a little closer it would be a little clearer.

So lets just say I am looking for something more than a hook-up but less than a girlfriend. But I have had a few of those as well when its right, but never at the expense of anyones freedom.

At the moment I am single, but rarely lonely. And just like you I want the best I can find for myself. The only way to get that is to check things out when they look like they might be worth checking.

Sometimes you just have to look past what's most likely to happen and hope maybe something more will. ".

Just change the words to better suit your individual objectives. BTW... the girl I sent this to is someone I have offered my usual $ to multiple times over the last few months. I never stalk girls online but she just happens to be a 10 for me. Most girls would either ignore me, tell me off, or just laugh. But now I got her asking me that perennial question.

So in my travels the old you got me pregnant scam was very popular. Has anyone dealt with that here?

[QUOTE=SlowMo;2257815]
I'm now beginning to understand why experienced folks like Hollywood are really explicit very early: some of those girls literally don't know what an arrangement is for. I was worried of scaring them off before, but then I'm paying with my time, which is precious. I'd be curious to know what folks lay down at the M&G, do's, don'ts, expectations and offers. My guess is that you have to lay it out there. One difficulty I don't know if other SDs share with me is that I do not show a face picture on SA. Girls get to the M&G blind, which I'm now thinking costs me a date as they need a bit of time to figure out how they feel about me. Anybody else setting blind dates due to privacy needs?

SM.[/QUOTE]I don't post a pic on the SD sites, since I currently have a jealous GF, and, previously, because I was married (a long time ago, now, thankfully!) In the time where I didn't have a reason not to post a pic, I did find that, in my few dabblings, having a picture cut down on the number of responses, but also sharply cut down on the number of flakes or disappearances, possibly because they knew from the first "Hello," what you look like, and set their expectations accordingly. (I'm just an average looking guy. Not scary looking, but definitely the kind of guy who needs to use PUA tactics to hook up with civvies, because I'm not going to get there on my looks!

However, I do not go to any blind dates, and I don't expect the girls to, either. In an age of cellphones, there's no reason for not exchanging a picture, and, let's face it, the pros don't care at all about what you look like, but, in the Sugar Bowl, a girl is not going to be interested if you're too far outside of her expectations. Those expectations are significantly lowered from their civilian dating, given that the sugar makes everything sweeter, but they are still there. I like to move the conversation to regular email as soon as I've determined that I'm not talking to a nigerian scammer, and I offer "give me your email address, and I'll send you current pics, so you won't be wondering what I look like. " If they disappear after that, I'm not their type. Sure, I might have been able to sweet talk them at the M&G, but why would I want to waste my time and $ with a girl who would have rejected me up-front if she saw my picture?

On the other side of this, I do tend to say Hello, to girls on the sites who don't have pictures, and it has been a surprisingly mixed bag. I say "surprisingly" because I would expect that most without pictures would be. Less than desirable. Usually, that's exactly correct. Other times, however, their appearance is fine, and, in one case, very much my type. (The good old days. A SYT from West Virginia, 19, who I saw for a little less than a year before I broke it off, who was willing to meet in the middle for $$ and a hotel room for the night, whether I stayed or not, because she didn't want to have to drive back without sleep. Yes, I have let the girls keep the rooms, if they're willing to use their I'd to check in, and I pay cash. If the hotel room keeps a cash deposit, that comes out of the sugar for the girl, since she can recover it the next morning.).

In any event, I only tend to regret it when I allude to a meet-and-greet before I have seen the girl's picture, since some of them will jump at the implied chance before sending their pictures, leaving me with a meeting with someone with whom I probably wouldn't have agreed to see if I had seen her picture, first. Yes, I do still show up for those, because I think we all have a responsibility to not flake, and one quick meal where you're polite and complimentary to a lady you'll be "too busy" to see again is not a big sacrifice to make, for playing in the bowl.

Oh, as for "laying it out there" at the M&G, I'm still a member of the paranoid crowd who would never deign to discuss price and services, so there's a very simple rule I go by: I NEVER mention sex explicitly, and I do not encourage steamy emails or texts, since I've found that the more steamy stuff she sends, the more likely she is to flake (I think they get carried away, and then are afraid of living up to the heightened expectations that they have set.) Admittedly, I don't have any particularly special requirements in mind, so YMMV if you do. However, if they're playing in the bowl, they already understand the expectations, and they know those expectations are NOT platonic, no matter what the confused girls with the recently discussed ads say. I may refer to "private time, when we're ready to move to that level," but I welcome as many dinners and dates as they'd like "for us to get comfortable with each other. " (Unsaid: in most cases, that winds up being the first or second meeting, but if it goes to 3 with no move towards the FC, I will not be "free" for another meeting. If I just wanted civilian dating, I wouldn't be talking to an SB.).

I do tend to set ballpark expectations prior to the meet for eventual support, and I put it in terms of covering a few bills, but not the mortgage on their mansion. If they don't flinch at that, they will usually accept $ to $. 5 per meeting, and then it's up to you to see what your schedule / budget allows. If they have specific $ expectations that they present, I do the quick division to break it down to $ per meeting, and I tell them matter-of-factly about how often we'd have to meet, monthly, to fulfill their needs. If their needs are outside of my range, I use (I think it was HG's method) and tell them politely that they should absolutely be able to get whatever they need, that I would not be the one whose budget is able to handle that, but that I hope they'll keep me in mind if they have a quiet evening sometime.

The laying it out there, for me, pretty much comes down to whether or not they'll accept $ to $. 5 per meeting (nothing explicit ever mentioned, just "private time" or "quiet time" and whether or not our schedules will allow that. During these discussions, it does come into play whether or not they have their own transportation (or will I have to pick them up every time,) and whether or not they have their own place (or taking care of a hotel will come into play, in which case I need to consider how much I can offer for support.) You may find that even the ones with kids will soon discover that they can drop the kids off at grandma's for free, so you can visit them in their home, and let them enjoy the money that would have been going to the hotel. Speaking of babysitters, when you have a GPS one who tries to negotiate your payment of the sitter into the sugar, I politely tell them that their babysitter is their responsibility, and I'll agree to not charge them for my expenses for coming to see them, as well If they're offended by this (and they probably won't be. It's a negotiation technique on their part,) it's better that they walk, rather than having to suffer through them trying to bleed you dry via a thousand cuts. (The ones who ask for you to cover the babysitter will find more things that you should cover for them, as well. Yes, I speak from bitter experience on this.).

In any event, I go into M&Gs with the expectation that she already knows the score, so all we have left to discuss is $ per meeting ("until we're comfortable enough to be in a monthly arrangement". Be forewarned that when you do enter a monthly plan, the SB may suddenly become much less available, and will have to be cut off,) and scheduling. Assume they know that this is going to entail more than platonic friendship, since, hey, they're at the M&G with you, and you're not offering them anything for just going out on a date with you, right? .

My $0. 02.

Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2260072]Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.[/QUOTE]I love quality problems. BTW... if girl A is a true submissive she wants you to be happy at any cost. Meaning whatever you say goes. But you would have to tell her how much you love daddys little girl everyday. And how much daddy misses her but that you are a busy executive with a lot of responsibilities and maybe another little girl or 2 to take care of as well. That you chose her out of all the other little girls that need a daddy and she is your special princess. I have four of them right now, all exclusive for now. But its a lot of emotional upkeep except for my MILF. This is the only scenario I am even interested in anymore if its going to be a LTR. And it keeps the STD risk to the bare minimum as they are only playing with you and no one else.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2260072]Girl A:

Sexy as fuck, orgasms endlessly, gets off sucking your dick and is turned on insatiably with all things sex. One of those girls put on earth to have sex. But she is sensitive, sweet, shy and not aggressive. She likes to be dominated, use all toys, and we leave each other marked up with bites, bruises, scratches. The sex is out of this world, most intense ever, nothing off limits and I know I won't find another like her. Downside? She wants a real relationship, is VERY insecure, needy and seeks reassurance 24/7 I'm going to stay around. I mean all fucking day and night. But she is so sweet and innocent and submissive about it.

Girl B:

Enjoys the sex, but she knows why she is there. To get me off and take a little enjoyment out of it for herself. Equally as beautiful as girl A, but not orgasmic like her. She's more of a get it done and when I cum, we are done, etc. She does not want a relationship, is not needy and leaves me the fuck alone in between.

How can I keep girl A around for a long time without this turning into a huge fucking mess again? Because it's right there now. She wants her entire life with me. I naturally do not want this with her, but I also can't walk away from the sex and yeah the emotional give and take is pretty fun too.[/QUOTE]Hmmm That is a no brainer Deeds. Door #1 is it! We all dream of a girl like her but * and there is always a but* it depends on the depth of involvement in your life. The ultimate question is when you want separation will she trash your life? A woman scorned and all that. My advice is to slowly back off on communication so that you are not endlessly on a string at her beck and call. Take a little longer to text back etc. Train her to give you some space. I forget but it seems you are single? If married you can use that excuse. If single you just have to explain that you need ethernet space.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2260116]Hmmm That is a no brainer Deeds. Door #1 is it! We all dream of a girl like her but * and there is always a but* it depends on the depth of involvement in your life. The ultimate question is when you want separation will she trash your life? A woman scorned and all that. My advice is to slowly back off on communication so that you are not endlessly on a string at her beck and call. Take a little longer to text back etc. Train her to give you some space. I forget but it seems you are single? If married you can use that excuse. If single you just have to explain that you need ethernet space.[/QUOTE]I agree with Fred. I might even try something more direct. Once upon a time I had to tell a GF to stop randomly calling me at work several times per day or else we'd break up because of that. It was never an issue after that. So, perhaps put it back on her that you need space to take care of business to then allow you to spend time with her?

[QUOTE=TravelingJohn#2;2259751]So in my travels the old you got me pregnant scam was very popular. Has anyone dealt with that here?[/QUOTE]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

Ironically, only 1 was a true tale, which turns out she and her hubby had been trying to have kids and couldn't. Seems I helped out with our even knowing until a year later when she told me. Didn't want anything else from me, and seemed honestly grateful. She had moved outa state when her hubby was sent to another base.

Don't know if this helps, but has helped me avoid scams.

[QUOTE=Donatello;2260582]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

Ironically, only 1 was a true tale, which turns out she and her hubby had been trying to have kids and couldn't. Seems I helped out with our even knowing until a year later when she told me. Didn't want anything else from me, and seemed honestly grateful. She had moved outa state when her hubby was sent to another base.

Don't know if this helps, but has helped me avoid scams.[/QUOTE]Donatello, did you ever have a test done to confirm you are the Paternal Adult? I don't know how long ago this episode happened but, hopefully, the SB won't get to a place in her life where She decides you need to get caught up on your Paternal financial responsibilities. Sounds like everything is cool now so that's good.

[QUOTE=Donatello;2260582]In my adventures I've only dealt with this issue a handful of times. More often than not, I use the standard "can't be mine, I've been snipped. " (Which I haven't) but they suddenly stop the scam and within a few days they reach out with "sorry, false alarm" text, offering to meet up again. Usually I pass, unless it was all 9's across the board.

.[/QUOTE]Good tip! Since I like playing bare back it is always a risk. I try to maintain distance so that they don'why know how to find me. And I try to make sure they are on BC, but who knows about that?

A girl I was last seeing over 1 year ago wrote that she had a baby which was conceived while I was seeing her. She said she and her then estranged husband got it on trying to rekindle the marriage and it did not work out. She never tried to say it was mine so I can only hope that it isn't and she will not come looking.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7358-News-and-Media-Reports&p=2260899&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2260899.

Local story about SA, they all acted like they were getting rich. One holds up a Luis Viton purse and claims she got it for just having dinner.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2261038][URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7358-News-and-Media-Reports&p=2260899&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2260899.

Local story about SA, they all acted like they were getting rich. One holds up a Luis Viton purse and claims she got it for just having dinner.[/QUOTE]"Johnson says the average student receives $3000 a month in gifts, travel and money. " This part is believable. Its just that most of the guys on this thread like to spread it around and not give it all to one girl.

Those on SA know that the whole membership payment system is weird at best. From my experience, you can't re-up until your previous membership runs out, which means that you go dark (ie not premium) for at least a little bit. So recently I ran out and didn't get around to re-upping for 4 days. When I finally did, I got something like 20 contacts within the first 24 hours. Mind you, this is with the same profile as before where I had to be a lot more pro-active. I will grant you that three quarters of the contacts were from hare brained chicks from out of state or out of the country, but there are about 5 potential ones in there. Including one I spoke to on the phone tonight with the hottest body I've seen on SA yet. Still a long way to go on that front thought.

Anyone else receive a flood of messages after updating their membership?