Philly Sugar

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6491799]I applaud you and your buddy for fighting the good fight but people will aways pay whatever they want for whatever gets them off! As I age the most important thing to me is the experience. The price is secondary (within reason). When I was younger and wanted some action multiple times a week, cost was more of a concern. I've found a few doable women on seeking in the range you speak of and even though the bodies weren't perfect they were fun for a brief romp. Sometimes that's all I want. But sometimes I want a fuller experience and that's were I tend to pay more.

Have I paid in the 350-500 ranged for complete duds. A resounding yes! I've been that idiot who's seen a girl multiple times at more than she's worth on the hope that she'd be better next time. I let the faces and the bodies blind me!

But, I've also found gems in the 400-500 range. Solid 8's (on a tough scale) college educated (not that important but I appreciate being able to carry a conversation) that will spend 6-12 hours doing anything interesting including blow my mind in the sack. I understand that some guys can't get away for that kind of time but I enjoy it and it leaves me pretty satisfied for a week or more.

There is such a mixture of women on these site currently that there is something for everyone. If a woman says she wants more than you are offering, don't be afraid to ask what you're getting for that extra $$. You may be surprised or you may find that she's just doing a money grab! Some guys treat SB sites like a escort site for average girls and that's fine because some women treat it the same way. It's 200 for 1 hour and you might get 1. 25 hours. Some of these women are looking for the billionaire SD who takes them to Paris on the weekend. My sweet spot is somewhere in between![/QUOTE]I definitely agree with what you are saying. I work a lot 50 plus hours a week and have other investments that I have to keep an eye on. So I am very busy. Person. I work hard for what I have. I treat any girl that meet very fairly, more like friends with benefits. A lot are borderline escorts. I do try to weed them out. Scan other websites before meeting. Etc. I also say I don't have alot of time so I won't be using up your time. If they want to get alitle more personal and tell me about issues or what ever I listen and try to give them some good advice. One girl 22 said she is taking up cosmology and said she was thinking about being a dancer. I told her you really don't want to go there. Just do your school. Those place will chew you up and spit you out. The bottom line is I am not looking for want a be super models or escorts. More like the girl next door who likes sex and likes a little moolah. If its all about the money I tell them. You got the wrong guy. I have a decent amount of "friends" and it does help when you have another friend that helps find some gems too.

[QUOTE=JDRedBull;6492627]I definitely agree with what you are saying. I work a lot 50 plus hours a week and have other investments that I have to keep an eye on. So I am very busy. Person. I work hard for what I have. I treat any girl that meet very fairly, more like friends with benefits. A lot are borderline escorts. I do try to weed them out. Scan other websites before meeting. Etc. I also say I don't have alot of time so I won't be using up your time. If they want to get alitle more personal and tell me about issues or what ever I listen and try to give them some good advice. One girl 22 said she is taking up cosmology and said she was thinking about being a dancer. I told her you really don't want to go there. Just do your school. Those place will chew you up and spit you out. The bottom line is I am not looking for want a be super models or escorts. More like the girl next door who likes sex and likes a little moolah. If its all about the money I tell them. You got the wrong guy. I have a decent amount of "friends" and it does help when you have another friend that helps find some gems too.[/QUOTE]You bring up some good points:

1) You know what you're looking for. I found more success when I realized what I was looking for and excluded women who didn't fit my criteria.

2) You realize that you can offer more than your money.

The way these merge for me is that I like to build a relationship even if its just a one and done. Part of this is building a relationship that's not just based on money. I remember and instance where I got a SB talking and she stopped and said "do you really want to hear about this?" This tells me that even though this was a pretty attractive woman, no one even listens to what she has to say. I do better with the college or college educated girls because I understand the graduate from college work in some large organization life plan. I can't relate to the I want to work in a strip club girl. The only advice I can give her is to go back to school which probably wouldn't be what she wants to hear. Find beautiful women or ones that you find beautiful that you can relate to is a good start. Give them some Phillies tickets when you can't go to the game. Give them some advice, most of us are 15-30 years their senior. We have experience. All that goes a long way. When you get them in the sack they will give it all back to you and more.

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6492389]Skip The Games.

A website for pros to find customers. Mostly filled with scammers and bullshit.[/QUOTE]Ugh, don't remind me of why I'm on the SB sites. All the escort sites suck in my opinion! If you're not not doing the AMP scene or the street scene, I think the best online option is the SB sites. I like Seeking and I've asked about Secret Benefits but is seems like a nickel and dime you to death site Is anyone finding success with what's your price?

I hate to beat a dead horse and jump on the "ridiculous expectations" bandwagon, but I genuinely hope I'm not the only one out there giving some of these ladies with unrealistic numbers a reality check. I've fished on both SA and SB and found similar levels of ridiculousness on both recently. Here are but a couple of the latest examples:

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/3cceb2c0c979bd7c[/URL]

This first one (little brunette) caught my eye because she is the type (physically) I generally go for. But when she said she was only available from 3-7 on weekdays and "usually gets" 600 ppm, I actually laughed. Loudly.

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/4d80c051909eb8b4[/URL]

This second one looked nice with the cleavage pics, but when you see her face in the profile video, and she says "my previous arrangements decided on 4-500 ppm" . I call bullshit.

I understand there is a huge difference between SW's, escorts, and true SB's. I've had very successful (long and short term) SB arrangements in the past. But these girls need to get off the Reddit Kool-Aid and realize what they are offering and expecting are worlds apart right now.

Rant over.

So I have been asked about some of these girls on private messages.

The girls are from either Secret benefits or Seeking. I don't see them regularly any more now. Because of scheduling differences, they faded or they got into a regular relationships with someone their own age or I dropped them Etc I may get a text saying hi. Or heyyy Because they want to meet up again. Those that I still see and or my friend sees. I am going to keep for myself for now. Plus some were pics that my friend had sent me and most are from 3 months or more ago. But they all were in the 150 to 300 range. 300 maybe for the first meeting with going private.

What do they want now? Is anyone's guess. Especially if you guys throw 400 or more at them. Granted my dates last an hour maybe 2. If you are seeing them for the whole day. Yeah 400 or 500 maybe worth it.

Just some advice. I know everyone is different but I don't ask them to do anything strange or ask for weird shit for them to do. Even though am a very busy person. I do have a lot of patience with new "friends" if they seem like they may like being tied up or being spank or doing something different or what ever that may seem strange to what is deemed normal. I take my time with all that stuff. I never start off with saying hey I want to do this or that to you. Some of these girls may say right for the get-go that they like to be kinky with differentthings. I usually don't meet chick's with all kinds of rules, because they come off too pro for me. I will make them feel like we can meet up again if they are in the range the seems reasonable to me and I do see them again. Sometimes, it's all how to present yourself.

I definitely wouldn't put all your eggs all in one basket. I would have meetings with multiple girls. Some may be every other week, some maybe once a month like clock work. Sometimes I may be meeting 3 girls in a week. I have been slowing down and not trying to do that. But that's what I am trying to say is. This works for me. I am constantly asked multiple times a week if I can hang out. My friends list is full.

I do have rules of my own. If they seem too pro they are out. If they flake on me they are out If they cancel on me. 2 to 3 times with in a month. Depending on if it's the last minute or if it's a day or so ago. They are out.

Almost all these girls say they want respect. I tell them. I will show you respect. But as soon as you disrespect me you are out. It's simple. Definitely don't get yourself too deep into one girl. You are just asking for trouble. These girls are all banging someone else don't let them fool you. Seriously and most will lie to keep their money pig. Meaning you in place. Have some common sense about yourself.

Either this chick has two profiles or the scammer is getting lazy using pics of the same lady for two different locations. I doubt she's real. If she is real, she's a full time pro.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/2fa1f2af-a105-4c89-a276-37ea4369c957[/URL]

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/bf910c38-4b31-4a8f-9e47-65eb50fe24c1[/URL]

This lady was too easy to setup. So my escort radar was engaged. Then the day of the meet and greet, she wants to go directly to the hotel as her time was short that day. Yep. She's a pro. I went anyway, but met her in the parking lot in case the pics were way old to prevent Fatfishing. It was her. She's only slightly thicker than her pics. Yes, it was an escort experience as I expected. I just wanted to get the poison out. She only stayed 45 minutes. 1 pop. I won't repeat. Maybe other gents will have a more enjoyable result with her.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/bf24c968-bbbd-4789-bb8f-839929921fe8[/URL]

This lady wants 1. 5 k ppm or 6 k a month. I told her her previous guy was a gem and she should have never let him go. Next.

https://members.seeking.com/member/2a9ebf48-5af7-4b76-ad1c-e1e5573fc2e0

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6494506]This lady wants 1. 5 k ppm or 6 k a month. I told her her previous guy was a gem and she should have never let him go. Next.

https://members.seeking.com/member/2a9ebf48-5af7-4b76-ad1c-e1e5573fc2e0[/QUOTE]Jesus. Amy Anderssen, a bonafide porn start who still looks amazing (this girl has no chest at all) and isn't even past her 30's yet, only asks for 8 bennis. Sure that's for one hour but honestly, do you need that much more time to get, at best, 2 nuts off with, I will repeat, an actual porn star?

[QUOTE=Skyguy2;6493147]I hate to beat a dead horse and jump on the "ridiculous expectations" bandwagon, but I genuinely hope I'm not the only one out there giving some of these ladies with unrealistic numbers a reality check. I've fished on both SA and SB and found similar levels of ridiculousness on both recently. Here are but a couple of the latest examples:

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/3cceb2c0c979bd7c[/URL]

This first one (little brunette) caught my eye because she is the type (physically) I generally go for. But when she said she was only available from 3-7 on weekdays and "usually gets" 600 ppm, I actually laughed. Loudly.

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/4d80c051909eb8b4[/URL]

This second one looked nice with the cleavage pics, but when you see her face in the profile video, and she says "my previous arrangements decided on 4-500 ppm" . I call bullshit..[/QUOTE]Of course these women throw out numbers from 400-600. These are manageable starting points in my mind. I'm used to 250-500 (but never 500 on an unknown). If I'm willing to pay 400. I don't tell them that if they ask me to give a number 1st just like they won't tell you how low they will go when giving a number 1st. In my experience 500 means, I'll take 400 and 600 means I'll take 500.400 often means 350 and 300 if I really like you. 1 K means, I'm too lazy to even continue that conversation and she can move to the next target.

[QUOTE=Skyguy2;6493147]I hate to beat a dead horse and jump on the "ridiculous expectations" bandwagon, but I genuinely hope I'm not the only one out there giving some of these ladies with unrealistic numbers a reality check. I've fished on both SA and SB and found similar levels of ridiculousness on both recently. Here are but a couple of the latest examples:

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/3cceb2c0c979bd7c[/URL]

This first one (little brunette) caught my eye because she is the type (physically) I generally go for. But when she said she was only available from 3-7 on weekdays and "usually gets" 600 ppm, I actually laughed. Loudly.

[URL]https://www.secretbenefits.com/next/profile/4d80c051909eb8b4[/URL]

This second one looked nice with the cleavage pics, but when you see her face in the profile video, and she says "my previous arrangements decided on 4-500 ppm" . I call bullshit.

I understand there is a huge difference between SW's, escorts, and true SB's. I've had very successful (long and short term) SB arrangements in the past. But these girls need to get off the Reddit Kool-Aid and realize what they are offering and expecting are worlds apart right now.

Rant over.[/QUOTE]Standard PPMs are at least 300 these days. You may be able to shell out less than that but don't hold your breath.

I've noticed that before covid you had a solid chance of meeting up at a bar or cafe and planning to go back to your place without negotiating on a specific number for PPM. Nowadays, stating what your PPM is over text is required. In fact, giving estimated ranges of PPM is no longer accepted. In short, girls will not meet you unless you tell them specifically over text your exact dollar amount PPM. Most of the time there is no way to budge off this, you either give the exact number or they won't meet.

With that being said, anything lower than a 300 PPM offering gets you an immediate response of "sorry this isn't going to work. I wish you luck, good bye!

You could try to finesse your way into giving a lower PPM by drawing it out over text and using advanced negotiation tactics. You would have to start at the low end of her PPM scale and then try to knock the number down from there through negotiation. Not easy to do at all through text and most of the time it doesn't work, very low success rate.

To get a sure fire result and skip through all of this mess, you'd have to be willing to offer 400 or 500 PPM as a baseline for all girls. This is something I highly highly do not recommend in doing. For various reasons. The first is that the experience you will get will most likely not be worth it. And the second is that you are ramping up market rates in your area significantly, and causing more damage to the bowl in your area as a whole. If all the guys in the area keep prices low, then that will help all of us in the long run, because the SBs can do nothing about it. It's only when the whales decide to start dumping way too much money down which leads to problems.

My prediction is that ever since seeking has gotten harder and harder in the last few years, the guys that have money and are uber rich (most likely not browsing this forum) have decided to increase their PPMs by a LOT. These whales are noticing that the competition is getting fierce, so their response is to double and triple up their PPMs. Which is why you will see some of these girls claiming that they're getting much higher PPMs than before, such as 600-800+.

So to summarize: the girls are increasing PPMs due to inflation and other factors, competition for these girls gets fiercer on seeking, the guys are responding by shelling out higher and higher PPM, this reinforces the high prices.

Even if most guys do not increase their PPMs, all it takes is a few whales to give some of the more desirable girls these very high PPMs. These more desirable girls then post and brag about it on social media such as reddit and tik tok, and suddenly now all of the average girls are brain washed into thinking they can get these higher PPMs too. And that's how you end up in the situation we are in now where every girl is asking for high PPM.

In short, the situation is not good and I don't see it improving. In fact quite the opposite, I see things and I see seeking getting worse as time goes on.

[QUOTE=UsaBlinkGuy11;6495160]Standard PPMs are at least 300 these days. You may be able to shell out less than that but don't hold your breath.

I've noticed that before covid you had a solid chance of meeting up at a bar or cafe and planning to go back to your place without negotiating on a specific number for PPM. Nowadays, stating what your PPM is over text is required. In fact, giving estimated ranges of PPM is no longer accepted. In short, girls will not meet you unless you tell them specifically over text your exact dollar amount PPM. Most of the time there is no way to budge off this, you either give the exact number or they won't meet.

With that being said, anything lower than a 300 PPM offering gets you an immediate response of "sorry this isn't going to work. I wish you luck, good bye!

You could try to finesse your way into giving a lower PPM by drawing it out over text and using advanced negotiation tactics. You would have to start at the low end of her PPM scale and then try to knock the number down from there through negotiation. Not easy to do at all through text and most of the time it doesn't work, very low success rate.

To get a sure fire result and skip through all of this mess, you'd have to be willing to offer 400 or 500 PPM as a baseline for all girls. This is something I highly highly do not recommend in doing. For various reasons. The first is that the experience you will get will most likely not be worth it. And the second is that you are ramping up market rates in your area significantly, and causing more damage to the bowl in your area as a whole. If all the guys in the area keep prices low, then that will help all of us in the long run, because the SBs can do nothing about it. It's only when the whales decide to start dumping way too much money down which leads to problems.

My prediction is that ever since seeking has gotten harder and harder in the last few years, the guys that have money and are uber rich (most likely not browsing this forum) have decided to increase their PPMs by a LOT. These whales are noticing that the competition is getting fierce, so their response is to double and triple up their PPMs. Which is why you will see some of these girls claiming that they're getting much higher PPMs than before, such as 600-800+.

So to summarize: the girls are increasing PPMs due to inflation and other factors, competition for these girls gets fiercer on seeking, the guys are responding by shelling out higher and higher PPM, this reinforces the high prices.

Even if most guys do not increase their PPMs, all it takes is a few whales to give some of the more desirable girls these very high PPMs. These more desirable girls then post and brag about it on social media such as reddit and tik tok, and suddenly now all of the average girls are brain washed into thinking they can get these higher PPMs too. And that's how you end up in the situation we are in now where every girl is asking for high PPM.

In short, the situation is not good and I don't see it improving. In fact quite the opposite, I see things and I see seeking getting worse as time goes on.[/QUOTE]I've talked about this in the past in other threads but essentially, the stock market went bonkers over the pandemic and the fed injected a ton of liquidity into the market before and during the pandemic which is why you have all these dystopian distortions.

The boomers with $$ are ruining it for everyone else.

[QUOTE=UsaBlinkGuy11;6495160]Standard PPMs are at least 300 these days. You may be able to shell out less than that but don't hold your breath.

I've noticed that before covid you had a solid chance of meeting up at a bar or cafe and planning to go back to your place without negotiating on a specific number for PPM. Nowadays, stating what your PPM is over text is required. In fact, giving estimated ranges of PPM is no longer accepted. In short, girls will not meet you unless you tell them specifically over text your exact dollar amount PPM. Most of the time there is no way to budge off this, you either give the exact number or they won't meet.

….

To get a sure fire result and skip through all of this mess, you'd have to be willing to offer 400 or 500 PPM as a baseline for all girls...

My prediction is that ever since seeking has gotten harder and harder in the last few years, the guys that have money and are uber rich (most likely not browsing this forum) have decided to increase their PPMs by a LOT. These whales are noticing that the competition is getting fierce, so their response is to double and triple up their PPMs. Which is why you will see some of these girls claiming that they're getting much higher PPMs than before, such as 600-800+.[/QUOTE]I've been in this game (quietly) for years. I'm not above investing 3-400 in a quality girl (ppm) that truly knows what a SB is. But there's no way in hell I'm donating 6-700 to an unknown entity let alone 4-500 for a below average looking one. I'll keep playing the game and fighting the good fight. At least until I get bored and retire LOL.

Next case in point. Cute but too thick to be expecting 700 ppm:

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/7bb081a5-a553-40f4-ac32-6535e02dfbe1[/URL]

I met her maybe 2 years ago and I was newish for S. A. She a SW by the looks of things I could not find anything at the time. Running her number or scanning other sites. She had her own room in Camden on a busy street with row homes. She was about 2. 0 or 2 5 for what she wanted. Looks alot rougher than her pics and that was 2 years ago. Definitely rap it up. I still went forward even though everything was sus and there were some young dudes hanging outside. So in the middle of it all. Someone bangs on the door. Another girl pops in and says Joe schmoe left his tools and is coming to get them. Now it definitely sounds like a scam. So I got dressed and was out the door. She did run after me and said she wanted to finish and was very sorry. She did seem legit. But my momentum was gone she even texted me again. But she was definitely not up to what I am looking for in terms of someone that was posing as a non pro. Maybe she is legit now. But I wouldn't trust it.

Just some more advice on these inflated prices. You guys can definitely get these girls for 3 and under. First the economiy pulling back. You have to reflect to them that you are a safe individual and not some perv. If you are acting all rich and shit. Yeah, I would charge you up, too. If you pester them and act all desperate. Yeah, you are going to get charged up. Take your time. Have some small talk ask them how are you doing and don't jump into the sex talk right away. Jeeze these girl are people too. Now I don't screw around either. I probably blocked more girls than they have me. That's another reason why I don't have links. If the arrangement didn't work or they flaked I block them or they have GPS. So when you block these high end girls they start to think. Maybe I was just lucky or maybe I am alittle high. Have some back bone guys. If a large amount of dudes start standing their ground some will come back to earth. I am not even active on seeking I have over 40 messages, and that was about a month. LOL yeah 95 percent are time wasters, scammers and GPS. But when I activate my account I am sure I will have no problem pulling a few decent girls for 3 or under. I do understand some of you guys don't have time for all that and just want to get it on. I think some of my appeal to all this is I am pulling average young girls that you would see in the store or walking down the street. I would say dam I would like some of that. The funny thing BC of SB sites you can, you meet them and 30 minutes later you are, give them a few Benz But if you did that outside to random girls and you didn't present yourself right. You might be talking to the popo.

When I was buying my 1st car in the late 80's early 90's for about 15 K new, a good escort cost 150-200. Almost 30 years later, I just can find the energy to complain that a SB wants 300-500. Of course I have met talked to more women above that range than below it. I'm still amazed when a non druggie or non SW is offering services at escort prices from 30 years ago. I think our complaints on prices speak to the stagnation of the middle class. Many professionals in the industries like tech make 4 to 5 times what they made in the 90's. So I totally understand both sides of this argument.

So I signed up for SB about two weeks ago and bought some credits. I quickly established communications with several women and a few seemed promising. We had nice chats, agreed to meeting, I proposed PPM of $200 and they agreed and said they would like to meet. I proposed several days / or evenings and at that point, the conversations tend to drop, but lo and behold, another new "friend" shows up on SB wanting to get together and the process starts over. Not sure if I'm imagining it, or do they have really good AI bots that carry on conversations really well to get you to keep clicking?

Seems like there's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. (sorry Steve Stills!

Anyone else see this? Or am I too paranoid from reading too much into it?

[QUOTE=HolySheite;6495818]So I signed up for SB about two weeks ago and bought some credits. I quickly established communications with several women and a few seemed promising. We had nice chats, agreed to meeting, I proposed PPM of $200 and they agreed and said they would like to meet. I proposed several days / or evenings and at that point, the conversations tend to drop, but lo and behold, another new "friend" shows up on SB wanting to get together and the process starts over. Not sure if I'm imagining it, or do they have really good AI bots that carry on conversations really well to get you to keep clicking?

Seems like there's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. (sorry Steve Stills!

Anyone else see this? Or am I too paranoid from reading too much into it?[/QUOTE]Delete your account right now. Trust me, all you'll be doing is wasting money on the sites that make you pay for those fucking moronic credits. Regardless of it's just flakes or scammers or bots, they want to slowly leech money away from you via the micro transaction method that free to play video games use. Go on subscription based ones instead.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/fb358180-d6be-456c-8bac-dc086ebd8af1[/URL]

This one IS real but she immediately starts with the sob stories. "Cash app me please, I need money for gas / food / bills" I know she isn't a fake because I had her do a verification pic but she figures she'll convince guys with her pics and just wants to get what she can then ditch. She was also going by Sadiexoxo but that account was closed so already a red flag.

On that note, what do the rest of you guys do with girls you do like mostly, but who want you to always send them money because of them being so poor? I was seeing one woman but she started to keep asking for more and more help without an actual meet. Sure we did still meet but every few days it was "I need money for food" or "My phone is going to turn off I need a little help for paying the bill" Usually 40-60 which isn't a lot but it started to get really annoying. How do you guys handle that?

I saw the first one in black top and colored panties. Sydney.

Met her over 2 years ago. Wouldn't let me finish in her mouth and no bare sex.

Recently we reconnected.

And now I recall why I let her go.

She's unreliable to start.

Was supposed to meet on a Monday night at my house 8 pm.

Messaged her multiple times that night with no reply.

Finally at 10 pm she lets me know something came up.

Same shit on Tuesday.

Wednesday asks to meet at 6 pm.

I said yes but please shower and groom before you come.

Ends up texting me at 8 pm that she's on her way.

I asked did she shower? She tells me in the morning.

Fuck!! I should have cancelled.

She shows up looking like she just rolled out of bed.

Sweatpants. Tube socks. Hair tied up.

Brings her backpack in and plugs in her laptop.

Goes into the bathroom and grabs a washcloth to clean herself.

At this point I can't turn back.

$200. Bbj and BBFS.

I had to show proof of an std test and vasectomy to get that.

15 min later she's on her way home.

I text her the next day telling her I'm not interested in seeing her again.

She had the nerve to say she isn't either because I'm cheap and she normally gets $400-500.

I said WTF. You Show up unshowered and look like you just woke up.

Cancelled 2 Nights and then show up over 2 hrs late the 3rd night.

I tell her every woman I've met showered and groomed before coming.

I would definitely avoid her. I don't know who the fuck is crazy enough pay her $400.

This is why my first meet is always limited to $100 BJ or $200 BBFS for a quick meet.

Call me cheap but I'm not wasting $500 on an unknown encounter.

[QUOTE=JDRedBull;6490602]A friend of mine. Or my friend had a dream. LOL.

Let's just say someone I might know told me he sticks to 150 to 250.

Now he sent me some pics to back it up. Granted these aren't all day meetings. Maybe an hour. One event, for multiple events in one day maybe more. No dinners etc. He stills sees some of them. So no links sorry, but if you been with them I am sure you might know them.

Girls aren't 10's. Maybe 6's and 7's. Some are alittle chunky, but he does like big breast. For One or two of the girls the meeting didn't happen, but the amount was agreed on. My friend is 50 plus years old over 6 ft fit. Nothing special.

Now to help keep things in check. My friend and I were told by a few of the girls on one of these S D sites. Now they said this BC they were mad that I didn't agree to there numbers. But I keep this in my head while chatting with them. "What normal man pays for sex". I say to myself and them. Which she is kind of right. I just say what's it worth. Hmm. Well, a girl that's at least half my age. Average to good looking. Does almost everything I want sexually and I don't need to take them anywere. Yeah that's probably good for couple Benz. Definitely not 400 or 500. I am middle-class at best. I tell myself if I would have put that extra 200 to 300 which adds up to alot in a month into the stock market or even gold, bitcoin etc. I would be up alot more. Now if you have cash to burn. Great. My friend and I are are just trying to keep the numbers at a reasonable level. But to each is own. My friend and I may do 3. For the first meet. On going NO.

Also please get yourself check out.

Trick is floating around and guys can have zero symptoms. If you go bare. It's probably better to pull out then to leave your stuff in them, so you don't have stuff swimming back in you. Take a piss and wash your junk.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KCesar68;6496980]Delete your account right now. Trust me, all you'll be doing is wasting money on the sites that make you pay for those fucking moronic credits. Regardless of it's just flakes or scammers or bots, they want to slowly leech money away from you via the micro transaction method that free to play video games use. Go on subscription based ones instead.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/fb358180-d6be-456c-8bac-dc086ebd8af1[/URL]

This one IS real but she immediately starts with the sob stories. "Cash app me please, I need money for gas / food / bills" I know she isn't a fake because I had her do a verification pic but she figures she'll convince guys with her pics and just wants to get what she can then ditch. She was also going by Sadiexoxo but that account was closed so already a red flag.

On that note, what do the rest of you guys do with girls you do like mostly, but who want you to always send them money because of them being so poor? I was seeing one woman but she started to keep asking for more and more help without an actual meet. Sure we did still meet but every few days it was "I need money for food" or "My phone is going to turn off I need a little help for paying the bill" Usually 40-60 which isn't a lot but it started to get really annoying. How do you guys handle that?[/QUOTE]I learned a long time ago to never deal with desperate people! If they care that much about the money or some substance, they'll do anything to get it, even put your safety at risk!

[QUOTE=KCesar68;6496980]Delete your account right now. Trust me, all you'll be doing is wasting money on the sites that make you pay for those fucking moronic credits. Regardless of it's just flakes or scammers or bots, they want to slowly leech money away from you via the micro transaction method that free to play video games use. Go on subscription based ones instead.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/fb358180-d6be-456c-8bac-dc086ebd8af1[/URL]

This one IS real but she immediately starts with the sob stories. "Cash app me please, I need money for gas / food / bills" I know she isn't a fake because I had her do a verification pic but she figures she'll convince guys with her pics and just wants to get what she can then ditch. She was also going by Sadiexoxo but that account was closed so already a red flag.

On that note, what do the rest of you guys do with girls you do like mostly, but who want you to always send them money because of them being so poor? I was seeing one woman but she started to keep asking for more and more help without an actual meet. Sure we did still meet but every few days it was "I need money for food" or "My phone is going to turn off I need a little help for paying the bill" Usually 40-60 which isn't a lot but it started to get really annoying. How do you guys handle that?[/QUOTE]I learned a long time ago to never deal with desperate people! If they care that much about the money or some substance, they'll do anything to get it, even put your safety at risk!

Will only be in the area for a few weeks this summer. So not what I'm looking for. Maybe staying with family. Maybe a traveling pro. Next.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/26293d69-92a1-4eed-85e5-f9d6b7a7225c[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6493004]I like Seeking and I've asked about Secret Benefits but is seems like a nickel and dime you to death site Is anyone finding success with what's your price?[/QUOTE]You think SB nickels and dimes you to death? WYP is as bad, PLUS they have LOTS of EXPLICIT warnings that say, sex should never be expected on a first date. Girls take this seriously, guys do not. So why am I gunna agree to pay $200+ to meet a girl, for what essentially is a M&G?

Also WYP is explicit about the fact that once you agree to a date, which requires a specific $ amount, you have a CONTRACT and have to follow through. But who is gunna sue you over that? But many dudes fall for this BS! It is a rinser's paradise there. Mooks willing to pay 200,300 or more just for a M&G style date. Girl eats and drinks on you, and then begs off any further activity. Great gig for a girl, terrible for a dude.

Oh sure, have read stories from dudes who have had success there. Me, tried it once, came up snake eyes and never wasted money on that again. Why not just stick with SA and work on your game? I found my initial approach didn't work so well, but after some refinement, with help from others here, I've had better success!

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6497997]Will only be in the area for a few weeks this summer. So not what I'm looking for. Maybe staying with family. Maybe a traveling pro. Next.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/26293d69-92a1-4eed-85e5-f9d6b7a7225c[/URL][/QUOTE]I normally don't trust post like that but I would lean non pro. A traveling pros seem less likely to hide their faces. I think a pro would tend to target Wilmington over Newark. And Newark is a college town so this screams of I'm taking a class or two at the local university and want to make some easy money on the side.

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;6498366]You think SB nickels and dimes you to death? WYP is as bad, PLUS they have LOTS of EXPLICIT warnings that say, sex should never be expected on a first date. Girls take this seriously, guys do not. So why am I gunna agree to pay $200+ to meet a girl, for what essentially is a M&G?

Also WYP is explicit about the fact that once you agree to a date, which requires a specific $ amount, you have a CONTRACT and have to follow through. But who is gunna sue you over that? But many dudes fall for this BS! It is a rinser's paradise there. Mooks willing to pay 200,300 or more just for a M&G style date. Girl eats and drinks on you, and then begs off any further activity. Great gig for a girl, terrible for a dude.

Oh sure, have read stories from dudes who have had success there. Me, tried it once, came up snake eyes and never wasted money on that again. Why not just stick with SA and work on your game? I found my initial approach didn't work so well, but after some refinement, with help from others here, I've had better success![/QUOTE]It's the allure of new faces that had me interested but thanks for the info. I've heard from people privately that say the same thing. SA actually works great for me. I've been on a lot of low pressure non paid M&Gs.

What's the profit model for WYP. Do they hold he money and take a small portion?

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6498478]I normally don't trust post like that but I would lean non pro. A traveling pros seem less likely to hide their faces. I think a pro would tend to target Wilmington over Newark. And Newark is a college town so this screams of I'm taking a class or two at the local university and want to make some easy money on the side.[/QUOTE]Your logic feels sound Myth. I'm leaning toward the college girl in for a summer semester now. But still. I'd rather start something with a chick that can become more long term. It's such a pain in the ass to find a compatible chick who is attractive and reasonable. If I find one, I hope to have it last a bit longer than a few weeks.

She's only available after 500 pm weekdays. Will meet on weekends. That doesn't work for me.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/c7e350b9-609c-4819-8360-6e30d8718594[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6495815]When I was buying my 1st car in the late 80's early 90's for about 15 K new, a good escort cost 150-200. Almost 30 years later, I just can find the energy to complain that a SB wants 300-500. Of course I have met talked to more women above that range than below it. I'm still amazed when a non druggie or non SW is offering services at escort prices from 30 years ago. I think our complaints on prices speak to the stagnation of the middle class. Many professionals in the industries like tech make 4 to 5 times what they made in the 90's. So I totally understand both sides of this argument.[/QUOTE]I was literally just thinking about that. In my nearly 40 years mongering, prices have been remarkably stable. I would also add, the supply has gone up significantly (whether that is a QUALITY supply is open for discussion). My first girl out of the gate cost me 250. My date Saturday night cost me 250.

[QUOTE=LBerkey;6501375]I was literally just thinking about that. In my nearly 40 years mongering, prices have been remarkably stable. I would also add, the supply has gone up significantly (whether that is a QUALITY supply is open for discussion). My first girl out of the gate cost me 250. My date Saturday night cost me 250.[/QUOTE]Yeah, It's kind of crazy if you're an old timer. It's kind of like he price of drugs. Though I guess there are no more nickel bags! (I could be completely wrong on that) I'd agree that the supply is up since any girl with the internet and a desire to make a little cash can put out her shingle. As far as quality, there seems to be a huge range. You have girls with open sores and drug addictions at one end and instagram models with PHDs on the other end!

[QUOTE=LBerkey;6501375]I was literally just thinking about that. In my nearly 40 years mongering, prices have been remarkably stable. I would also add, the supply has gone up significantly (whether that is a QUALITY supply is open for discussion). My first girl out of the gate cost me 250. My date Saturday night cost me 250.[/QUOTE]When I first got on seeking around 7+ years ago, I was meeting women for 15 min car dates during lunch time.

60 BBJCIM or 100 BBFS.

This was from college girls and young attractive single moms.

Probably met at least 20 over a 2 year period and all were great experiences.

These were the days before OF and tiktok.

Life was great until I got permanently banned from SE.

Been on and off seeking the last 3 years. Divorced so all new address and credit card on the site.

I aim for $100/$200 and it's hard to get but possible with average looking mid aged women and it's a lot of work.

But now the college / young moms want $300/$500 for the same services.

So I don't agree that prices have been steady compared to what I initially paid.

[QUOTE=KenAllen;6501435]When I first got on seeking around 7+ years ago, I was meeting women for 15 min car dates during lunch time.

60 BBJCIM or 100 BBFS.

This was from college girls and young attractive single moms.

Probably met at least 20 over a 2 year period and all were great experiences.

These were the days before OF and tiktok.

Life was great until I got permanently banned from SE.

Been on and off seeking the last 3 years. Divorced so all new address and credit card on the site.

I aim for $100/$200 and it's hard to get but possible with average looking mid aged women and it's a lot of work.

But now the college / young moms want $300/$500 for the same services.

So I don't agree that prices have been steady compared to what I initially paid.[/QUOTE]I would agree that SA has changed but I think you need to look at the entire market of sex work over a longer period of time. The internet had a big effect on bringing down or maintaining prices in the early 2000's. I would point out that you were paying $100 for a 15 minute car date! That's $400 an hour. You're obviously younger than me because I wouldn't be capable of having good sex in a car! Now that you have more freedom and time, you could find what you're looking for for multiple hours if you were paying $400. If you're paying $100, yes you best bet is a SW, but it would probably cost you less. So maybe the floor for the non SW is higher but I don't think the ceiling for these services has risen much. There is a ton of competition online. SA has all kinds of women, some want to be SBs and some just want to grab some money as quick as possible. No, you probably can't find a college girl who wants to be a SB to do a car date for $100, but you can probably find a girl to pretend to be a college coed and do a car date.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6501805]I would agree that SA has changed but I think you need to look at the entire market of sex work over a longer period of time. The internet had a big effect on bringing down or maintaining prices in the early 2000's. I would point out that you were paying $100 for a 15 minute car date! That's $400 an hour. You're obviously younger than me because I wouldn't be capable of having good sex in a car! Now that you have more freedom and time, you could find what you're looking for for multiple hours if you were paying $400. If you're paying $100, yes you best bet is a SW, but it would probably cost you less. So maybe the floor for the non SW is higher but I don't think the ceiling for these services has risen much. There is a ton of competition online. SA has all kinds of women, some want to be SBs and some just want to grab some money as quick as possible. No, you probably can't find a college girl who wants to be a SB to do a car date for $100, but you can probably find a girl to pretend to be a college coed and do a car date.[/QUOTE]I don't do car dates anymore since I can host but the college coed in seeking are asking 300-500 when I tell them I only want 20-30 min first date.

It's to gauge sexual compatibility and weed out the rip-offs.

[QUOTE=KenAllen;6501915]I don't do car dates anymore since I can host but the college coed in seeking are asking 300-500 when I tell them I only want 20-30 min first date.

It's to gauge sexual compatibility and weed out the rip-offs.[/QUOTE]I think you are unintentionally asking for more services at the same price. Picking up a girl on or near campus for some quick fun for 100 is significantly different for the girl than driving or catching a bus to your place to spend 20 minutes making 100. She's going to spend maybe an hour on combined travel even if you're pretty close to her location. Don't label me a 'white knight' or anything but I wouldn't travel an hour to watch TV with a stranger for 15 minutes at their house for 100. Gas cost too much and the opportunities that they are missing out on are too great. In some sense they have a lot of free time so, they'd probably rather spend 3 hours with one guy for 300-500 who might even buy them a drink or dinner than trying to deal with 5 different guys all paying 100 for 20 minutes. That's just the reality of a sugar baby website. The women you are looking for may have migrated to sites like WYP or one of those backpage / craigslist wannabe rip off sites.

Bringing this all back to stagnant cost. It seems to me that the quality that I used to pay 250-350 for 20-30 years ago for a clock watching 1 hour can be had for multiple hours at 400-500, sometimes most of a day if you're into that sort of thing.

Anyone know anything about her? Normally tons of tattoos aren't my thing but she has a really sexy look of "bad ass hot white trash girl" about her. Feels a little like a guilty pleasure.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/511829a9-0e8e-426d-abcc-53db1de3a7d1[/URL]

[QUOTE=KCesar68;6502543]Anyone know anything about her? Normally tons of tattoos aren't my thing but she has a really sexy look of "bad ass hot white trash girl" about her. Feels a little like a guilty pleasure.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/511829a9-0e8e-426d-abcc-53db1de3a7d1[/URL][/QUOTE]I think she wanted to meet one of our brethren directly at her hotel. Gave off pro vibes. High volume chick. He passed. I don't blame him. There was a post about her. Use the last 8 digits of the URL in the searchbar for this thread and the post should pop up.

Excellent point Myth. This is the logic I use with potential sbs. I subscribe to "cheap is not good and good is not cheap." Although I have been off SA for almost a year because it just sucks anymore, I can say that some college ladies can be had for similar prices that were offered years back. I am fortunate to live in an area with lots of colleges within a reasonable driving distance. The ground game still works and I have had some success in the 200-300 area with very nice college ladies needing some quick cash for 2-4 hrs of their time. Of course summer creates another challenge but my pipeline I has a steady rotation of variety for the dry summer. The beach is a great place to hunt and if you are fortunate enough to have a beach house, like myself, that always helps.

Be Safe.

[QUOTE=Mythbuster;6502482]I think you are unintentionally asking for more services at the same price. Picking up a girl on or near campus for some quick fun for 100 is significantly different for the girl than driving or catching a bus to your place to spend 20 minutes making 100. She's going to spend maybe an hour on combined travel even if you're pretty close to her location. Don't label me a 'white knight' or anything but I wouldn't travel an hour to watch TV with a stranger for 15 minutes at their house for 100. Gas cost too much and the opportunities that they are missing out on are too great. In some sense they have a lot of free time so, they'd probably rather spend 3 hours with one guy for 300-500 who might even buy them a drink or dinner than trying to deal with 5 different guys all paying 100 for 20 minutes. That's just the reality of a sugar baby website. The women you are looking for may have migrated to sites like WYP or one of those backpage / craigslist wannabe rip off sites.

Bringing this all back to stagnant cost. It seems to me that the quality that I used to pay 250-350 for 20-30 years ago for a clock watching 1 hour can be had for multiple hours at 400-500, sometimes most of a day if you're into that sort of thing.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HenryT458;6502727]I think she wanted to meet one of our brethren directly at her hotel. Gave off pro vibes. High volume chick. He passed. I don't blame him. There was a post about her. Use the last 8 digits of the URL in the searchbar for this thread and the post should pop up.[/QUOTE]Hey HT, I chatted with her and reviewed that chat. She wanted me to pick her up and take her to a hotel directly. That may be perfect for some. She was polite at my decline. I did not get info on the donation because I'm not interested in that stuff these days. Happy hunting and ty for all the info.

WildBabydoll- she looks pretty naughty. I can't get a response back though. Has anyone chatted with, or seen her?

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/e9cb58a6-4d5c-413a-b7b6-ea73d8fe2717[/URL]

Sugar babies have more knowledge around seeking now compared to 6-7 years ago. There's Youtube channels, tik tok, reddit, word of mouth, etc. Most girls on seeking have pretty much adopted the standard routine of doing things. The top of the list of this routine is to no longer accept anything below 300 PPM. Yes there are still some girls that you can get below this amount, but it is harder compared to before and there's not that many of these girls anymore.

Seeking is actually struggling really badly right now in terms of user base. Sugar daddies are leaving and so are sugar babies. The only people still using the site are sugar babies that are standing firm on their standards, some are happy paying high prices for mediocre services (they don't understand that paying high PPMs will not get them the quality experience they are looking for), and other sugar daddies that are still grinding it out and trying to make it work.

The only people winning in all this are that have the patience to sift through a lot of nonsense to find quality girls that will give them a quality experience, of course at a high end PPM. And the sugar babies that are able to take advantage of dudes spending way too much money and not understanding what they are getting.

It's important to realize that just because you pay 400-500+ PPM, that does not guarantee you a solid experience. The way that 400-500 or higher PPM came to be the standard is because this is right now the "acceptable ceiling" that most men who have money will be willing to pay for an attractive girl. It has nothing to do at all with offering an experience that is worthy of a 400 or 500 dollar price tag, zero relevance whatsoever. The whole point of sugar babies enforcing this amount of PPM is purely for money extraction purposes. I. e: how much money can be asked for while still keeping it within reason for most men that have money.

There's a lot of issues with the site right now. A lot of girls on there have no interest in offering a quality intimate experience. So your amount of PPM offered is irrelevant. I don't think people understand how much grinding is actually required these days to find a solid chick.

[QUOTE=UsaBlinkGuy11;6503560]Sugar babies have more knowledge around seeking now compared to 6-7 years ago. There's Youtube channels, tik tok, reddit, word of mouth, etc. Most girls on seeking have pretty much adopted the standard routine of doing things. The top of the list of this routine is to no longer accept anything below 300 PPM. Yes there are still some girls that you can get below this amount, but it is harder compared to before and there's not that many of these girls anymore.

Seeking is actually struggling really badly right now in terms of user base. Sugar daddies are leaving and so are sugar babies. The only people still using the site are sugar babies that are standing firm on their standards, some are happy paying high prices for mediocre services (they don't understand that paying high PPMs will not get them the quality experience they are looking for), and other sugar daddies that are still grinding it out and trying to make it work.

The only people winning in all this are that have the patience to sift through a lot of nonsense to find quality girls that will give them a quality experience, of course at a high end PPM. And the sugar babies that are able to take advantage of dudes spending way too much money and not understanding what they are getting.

It's important to realize that just because you pay 400-500+ PPM, that does not guarantee you a solid experience. The way that 400-500 or higher PPM came to be the standard is because this is right now the "acceptable ceiling" that most men who have money will be willing to pay for an attractive girl. It has nothing to do at all with offering an experience that is worthy of a 400 or 500 dollar price tag, zero relevance whatsoever. The whole point of sugar babies enforcing this amount of PPM is purely for money extraction purposes. I. e: how much money can be asked for while still keeping it within reason for most men that have money.

There's a lot of issues with the site right now. A lot of girls on there have no interest in offering a quality intimate experience. So your amount of PPM offered is irrelevant. I don't think people understand how much grinding is actually required these days to find a solid chick.[/QUOTE]Oh gosh, I hate to say so, but I disagree. I see all kinds of reasoning to explain higher prices and it just ain't so.

I mean I just got done with a repeat date with a smoking hot, spinner girl who is not yet drinking age, but eligible to vote. At out first encounter she asked for 500-700 ppm because, "that is what I got from the last SD. " I told her she better track that dude down and line him up again. In the end she agreed to hit the FC for 200! Now admittedly because the date was so passionate and she performed better than expected for a girl that age, I gave her a little something extra.

Then there was the M&G girl from last week. Nice slender girl, but a "LSD" type, so more GND than not. She wanted 500 at the M&G. I mentioned that a recent SB was hitting the Notel for a 3-hour date for $175, but for her I'd go to 200. She quickly dropped to 300!

I mean I have had at least 3 SBs since the pandemic that were sub 200.

What I have found is that it takes a bit more patience than it did before. Yes, girls get on websites or chat blogs and get some education, but often that needs to be adjusted, to counter the lies other girls tell. Also I have found that if after 3-6 months my approach on a site isn't yielding results, it is time to make adjustments and adapt. For me this has always been the hardest part as I rarely put on airs and just do me. But there are many ways to do me, and if one approach isn't working, I need to do another.

So no, I don't agree that you HAVE to be in the 400-500 range to get these girls. IMHO the more willing a dude is to walk away, the more chances he has to get a lower offer. Girls can smell desperation. By walking away, if nothing else, a dude contributes to the greater good by educating the girls on what the market will bear.

Another general issue is that MANY dudes use the SB sites like an escort site. They are really just interested in a one off sexual encounter and then move on to the next. If a dude is serious about sticking with a girl "long-term" it opens more doors. The reality is that these days 6-months is LT as life changes for these girls or other 'life happens'. But a girl feels less used and hooker like if she's in an on-going situation, she's more willing to be accommodating. But getting used by 3 guys in a row promising LT and then dumping them after one FC visit, sure changes attitudes.

But I get the frustration and time commitment. I don't believe it is any harder than it was before, just takes more time commitment. So Yeah, it takes much more patience from me these days, but still can find the good results!

[QUOTE=UsaBlinkGuy11;6503560]Sugar babies have more knowledge around seeking now compared to 6-7 years ago. There's Youtube channels, tik tok, reddit, word of mouth, etc. Most girls on seeking have pretty much adopted the standard routine of doing things. The top of the list of this routine is to no longer accept anything below 300 PPM. Yes there are still some girls that you can get below this amount, but it is harder compared to before and there's not that many of these girls anymore.

Seeking is actually struggling really badly right now in terms of user base. Sugar daddies are leaving and so are sugar babies. The only people still using the site are sugar babies that are standing firm on their standards, some are happy paying high prices for mediocre services (they don't understand that paying high PPMs will not get them the quality experience they are looking for), and other sugar daddies that are still grinding it out and trying to make it work.

The only people winning in all this are that have the patience to sift through a lot of nonsense to find quality girls that will give them a quality experience, of course at a high end PPM. And the sugar babies that are able to take advantage of dudes spending way too much money and not understanding what they are getting..[/QUOTE]First I want to say I've committed the terrible sin of offering ppm of 300-400, but I'd rarely go 5 and never higher. I simply don't want to miss out on amazing experiences haggling. I bring something besides money to the table. I'm attractive and in good shape. Inked up and told I'm sexy. I'm also sexually dominant and understand the power exchange very well, every girl I sleep with is submissive and well vetted besides that. And though sex is an important part of things I don't treat it like a sesh with an escort. There are ways to navigate things. I definitely put in work and hit up a lot of girls. I cast a wide net too, sometimes searching a 50 mile radius. The sweet spot for me is 21-27 year old girls. And they are into it. I don't know what it was like 5+ years ago. And I don't feel like I have a responsibility to "keep prices low" because some dudes want me to. But I DO have a responsibility to help out other guys on here and let y'all know who is a scammer, nutso or a waste of time.