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[QUOTE=Gogagoga]Try a gf and regular frequent sex with one person. I guess that may defeat the purpose as you are still doing it. Plus from what I hear after 3 months sex is not as frequent anymore.[/QUOTE]
Yeah... that doesn't work. At least not for me. I'm in a very long term relationship - and after more than a few years we're still getting it on right around three times a week and it's not enough. Not nearly enough. Not even close.
[QUOTE=Benchseats Rock]Yeah... that doesn't work. At least not for me. I'm in a very long term relationship - and after more than a few years we're still getting it on right around three times a week and it's not enough. Not nearly enough. Not even close.[/QUOTE]
Benchseats: is it possible that the rate of sexual activity in your relationship with your "civilian" long-term girlfriend is something that is created as much by your own perceptions, expectations, hints, and other behaviors, as it is by her? I mean, can't it be that she's misreading you and "going along with" the status quo on a tacit female assumption that the male is "supposed" to create the sexual opportunities? I found, once with one girlfriend, that it really was all about me sending some kind of signal that she felt like she would seem "slutty" if she was pro-active about sex. Maybe you can change the signals and work with her to create more opportunities for activity?
Now, I know this doesn't alleviate a lot of related problems: the need for variety, or the thrill and excitement of the "hunt and chase" and risk of getting caught, that street-walkers provide. But I heard about some real "manly men" (you know, corporate lawyer make-no-apologies types) who basically only ever had girlfriends who were "willing to service" them 100% of the time, or else they broke up and got a better girlfriend. That would kind of be my goal, if I DID have a girlfriend. If I want a blowjob, what kind of skin is it off HER back to give me one? I should get it whenever, wherever; and I don't really even see how that's sexist or wrong even in the mind of the most stridently bitchy anti-masculinist femi-nazi.
A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.
Misfit
Misfit:
If you're happy with your own actions, and do not feel that they impinge on your sense of well-being or on your capacity to function productively and positively in the other aspects of your life, then you're not an addict, just a participant.
Same as with drinking or any other potentially deleterious action. People who drink socially, enjoy doing it, call it off when it's responsible to call it off, make sure that their drinking experiences have little or no bearing on their interpersonal relationships and job performance, are not alcoholics, pretty much no matter HOW big an amount of drinking they do. But people who can't control it because it controls them? They're alcoholics even if it only an ounce of liquor passes their lips and then something bad happens.
The question isn't one of how much you do or how stringent the word is. It's about whether or not the rest of your life can be in order along with your mongering / hobbying activities. Different people have different responses.
BG
[QUOTE=Misfit]A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.
Misfit[/QUOTE]
I believe the rest of my life is in fact in order along with my mongering / hobbying activities. From time to time I may take a trip out on my lunch break from my work in search for some PFP (Pay-For-Play). But I always get my ass back to work on time. You have to find a balance between having fun & not just living a dull & boring life. Just one mongers opinion.
Misfit
[QUOTE=Misfit]A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.
Misfit[/QUOTE]
It's just interesting that you felt the need (out of 100's of thousands of hobbiest's on this board) to explain to us that you're a hobbiest and not a sex addict.
[QUOTE=Civ2000]It's just interesting that you felt the need (out of 100's of thousands of hobbiest's on this board) to explain to us that you're a hobbiest and not a sex addict.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion, I just stated a fact is all. Well that & boosting up the count a bit under my name. But hey don't read into it too much. But I believe Book Guy explained it best by describing the differences between an addict & just a participant. That just re-enforced my previous statement in my particular situation.
Misfit
My 1200th post. Normally the even numbers are reserved for trip reports. [post=591676]1199 was a trip report[/post] on one of the threads that I tend to monopolize because nobody else is reporting anything...
I felt this was a good time to get that off my chest in case anyone has any doubts that I am a sick man.
My last 60 days has been pretty good:
2 SW
4 Bar girls
6 AMP girls
7 escort/CL girls
and my S.O.
Variety is the spice of life. Glad to get that out and over with so I can find some more money in case I hook up this weekend with the girl coming thru the 'burg...
LoveLOS
LoveLOS, dude congrats on your 1200th post.
Misfit
Some recovery links that might be helpful. Take what you like and leave the rest.
[url]www.saa-recovery.org[/url]
[url]www.slaa.org[/url]
[url]www.sexhelp.com[/url]
I do consider myself a sex addict, or love addict would be a more accurate description. I have been successful in eliminating most of my compulsions concerning sex but it's taken a lot of work.
I can't and won't speak of who may or may not be addicted to sex or love but I realized I was and finally took steps to control it. There are several sites that can help you determine your own personal addiction (or lack of) I have enjoyed a great deal of private success but still have some mind sets to change. I found recoverynation.com useful as well as going to SAA meetings. I never would have believed anyone could be a sex addict until it was rubbed in my face.
I am for the most part happy and would be glad to offer anyone assistance. Simply PM me. I don't check back here often but will get your message.
The problem with "12-Step" based "sexaholic anonymous" groups, is that they are all about PROMOTING A DAMNED "spirituality"/religious experience, NOT about SOLVING THE PERSON'S PROBLEM!
You are better off "leaving it all!" Seek a therapist who actually KNOWS what the hell they are doing!
[QUOTE=Milo Milo]Some recovery links that might be helpful. Take what you like and leave the rest.
[url]www.saa-recovery.org[/url]
[url]www.slaa.org[/url]
[url]www.sexhelp.com[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LoveLOS]My 1200th post. Normally the even numbers are reserved for trip reports. [post=591676]1199 was a trip report[/post] on one of the threads that I tend to monopolize because nobody else is reporting anything...
I felt this was a good time to get that off my chest in case anyone has any doubts that I am a sick man.
My last 60 days has been pretty good:
2 SW
4 Bar girls
6 AMP girls
7 escort/CL girls
and my S.O.
Variety is the spice of life. Glad to get that out and over with so I can find some more money in case I hook up this weekend with the girl coming thru the 'burg...
LoveLOS[/QUOTE]
I totally understand it. As a geographic bachelor who will see his wife once a month for a few days to a week at a time, I need more. I have 2 escorts/CL girls who I see and enjoy a great deal. They are attractive, fun to be with and not really all that expensive. My wife, when we are together, provides well. Hell, last time I came home a zombie....screwed me all weekend, but less than a week later I had to have some strange. What the hell is that?
Sex is a release for me and when I don't have it I get weird and grouchy. OK, I'm weird most of the time, but the grouchy part is true. In fact, I enjoy the sex with the other women, who both have multiple O's with me and like my company, treat me well and neither are clock watchers.
Addiction may be a strong term, but it is the only word I have for it. It could be worse!! I could be an alcoholic, drug addict or gambler.
And the only thing that will cure me is death itself.
[QUOTE=Book Guy]
Yeah, come right down to it, one thing I want is a chick with skill. Manual dexterity, tongue action, general attitude, that all combines into, "Book Guy orgasms quickly if he chooses to." I've NEVER experienced even 5% of a professional's skills, in a civilian girlfriend. I'd grade them all as solid Fs, in both what they come to the relationship with, and what they bother to try out when I ask them. Weird, no?[/QUOTE]
I will brag here: when my old lady want to suck my cock she can suck like an experienced streetwalker. I have no idea where she learned it, but she can. She likes it most of the time and since we are only seeing each other occasionally she likes it more. She does not swallow now, but used to. She is trying to relearn that skill. Practice will make perfect. Most civilian woman simply do not like doing it... unless you are talking about the BBW's on Craig's list looking to get off.
[QUOTE=Redneck3565]The problem with "12-Step" based "sexaholic anonymous" groups, is that they are all about PROMOTING A DAMNED "spirituality"/religious experience, NOT about SOLVING THE PERSON'S PROBLEM!
You are better off "leaving it all!" Seek a therapist who actually KNOWS what the hell they are doing![/QUOTE]
That's a common misperception of the 12-step program. It is up to each person to decide what his higher power is or lack there of. The concept is that addicts generally can't quit an addiction on their own, so for many addicts the group becomes the higher power with the theory being the collective experience of 30 recovering addicts is more powerful than the singular experience of recovering alone.
The thing is, when people confront their problems with forthrightness and honesty and reveal themselves to others, they usually do have some kind of spiritual experience. Some might call that God, but I know an equal number of athiests in the program.
In fact, the 12-step programs are very good about solving the persons problem. When 12 steps are combined with therapy the addicts odds improve dramatically. Hence the reason that when you do go to see that therapist, there is usually a 9 in 10 chance that they will recommend a 12 step program in addition to the therapy.
I've been to all three programs. I don't go to the SA meetings because I find their definition of sobriety too restrictive: No sex outside of marriage including masterbation. The other two however let you create your own definition of sobriety. I highly recommend the programs.
If the "12 Steps" are somehow "not" about religion, then why do 6 out of 12 of them (50%!) mention "God" (with a capital "G"!). That is NOT a declaration of atheism! Spirituality/religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY ADDICTION, PERIOD! If it did, people who are NOT "spiritual" (atheists/agnostics) would have addictions, and people who ARE "spiritual" would not, as there "spiriruality" would be enough to keep them sober/sane.
Additionally, the idea that someone "can't quit on their own" is ridiculous, as people do it all the time for ALL TYPES OF DISORDERS! After all, how can one still be allegedly "powerless" over an activity, that one has clearly STOPPED DOING? 12 Step groups are nothing more then "collectivism" that wallows in the glory days of whatever "vice" the group is based around. They perpetuate "faith-healing" over individual responsibility for ending an activity that the individual in question has worked at, or succeeded in, destroying themselves over.
As for therapists that recommend 12 step groups for "support", it is usually because of one of three reasons: 1.) they are in a damned 12-Step group themselves, and are silent about the UNETHICAL "conflict of interest" referring a client to one perpetuates, 2.) they are unaware of the overwhelming religiosity of "the Program", or 3.) they are ignorantly aware of SECULAR alternatives! The idea that someone is going to "live without sex" (unless within a matrimonial confine!) is pathetic, and inhumane. A sex drive is a NORMAL HUMAN DESIRE! It should be treated as such, as long as the adults involved are consenting. Whether a person is "addicted" to it, is not only for that individual to figure out, but also for that person to GET OUT OF, just as they got INTO IT!
[QUOTE=Civ2000]That's a common misperception of the 12-step program. It is up to each person to decide what his higher power is or lack there of. The concept is that addicts generally can't quit an addiction on their own, so for many addicts the group becomes the higher power with the theory being the collective experience of 30 recovering addicts is more powerful than the singular experience of recovering alone.
The thing is, when people confront their problems with forthrightness and honesty and reveal themselves to others, they usually do have some kind of spiritual experience. Some might call that God, but I know an equal number of athiests in the program.
In fact, the 12-step programs are very good about solving the persons problem. When 12 steps are combined with therapy the addicts odds improve dramatically. Hence the reason that when you do go to see that therapist, there is usually a 9 in 10 chance that they will recommend a 12 step program in addition to the therapy.
I've been to all three programs. I don't go to the SA meetings because I find their definition of sobriety too restrictive: No sex outside of marriage including masterbation. The other two however let you create your own definition of sobriety. I highly recommend the programs.[/QUOTE]
It's basically simple:
I walk down the 12 (or so) steps into the basement AMP at 1413 K St. in Washington, DC. I spend an hour in a one on one session with my supporter. First she blesses me with holy water and washes away my sins. I demonstrate to her the missionary work I'm into. Then we talk a lot about God and Jesus Christ. Sometimes she lets me show her my ability to speak in tongues.
I leave there a changed man, ready to face the real world. Although I know alas, I am truly powerless over my addiction.
ROTFLMAO! ;) THIS is as it should be. . . .were that level of providing only as prevalent as corner churches are! ;)
[QUOTE=Baltimonger]It's basically simple:
I walk down the 12 (or so) steps into the basement AMP at 1413 K St. in Washington, DC. I spend an hour in a one on one session with my supporter. First she blesses me with holy water and washes away my sins. I demonstrate to her the missionary work I'm into. Then we talk a lot about God and Jesus Christ.
I leave there a changed man, ready to face the real world. Although I know alas, I am truly powerless over my addiction.[/QUOTE]
I've got to disagree with you once again Redneck. The original founders of AA wrote that they believed their higher power to be God, yes with a capital G, but explain in great detail that this higher power can be anything the addict chooses. There is a chapter for the agnostic/athiest. I know numerous atheists who love the program and get a lot out of it. In the present day program there isn't much talk about God or reveling in the glory days of the addiction, but rather talk about concrete ways of stopping the addiction.
And it's not at all about giving up sex. It's about developing a healthy sexuality. I don't know a single person who's goal it is to give up sex. But if a guy has been arrested 3 times for picking up hookers and faces a year with his next conviction, yet still finds himself having extreme difficulty staying off the stroll, this is they type of sexual behavior this guy for example only would be trying to limit. Every other type of sex would be fair game.
There is no unethical conflict about a therapist recommending 12 steps. The therapist doesn't profit from an AA group. They don't take a collection to give a cut to the therapist that recommends their client attend. The "dollar" singlular you put in the basket merely pays for rent. About the only conflict of interest could be the fact that someone who attends 12 step meetings has a proven much greater chance of beating any addiction, including smoking, so that therapists success rate in treating clients will go up.
You're clearly someone who quickly looked at the steps or a website and made a conclusion without actually going or looking very deep. 12 steps have helped millions get out of all kinds of addictions that they had previously been unable to do so. Some people hate the idea of God so much, that as soon as they see that word, the other 99% of the message goes right out the window.
The above noted web-site, is an EXCELLENTLY researched , and OVERWHELMINGLY thorough analysis of the founders of AA, it's "Big Book" "Alcoholics Anonymous"), and every conceiveable piece of false information perpetuated by AA, and 12-Step groups. One of these is this MYTH that somehow the founders of AA believed a person's "high power" (which the 12- Steps do NOT MENTION-only a "Power Greater Then Ourselves-note the capitalizing!) could be "anything". This is misleading considering that: a.) Bill W. states specifically in the "Big Book", may you find the "one true GOD, now", and Dr. Bob, used to FORCE early attendees of 12-Step meetings to GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND PRAY to this "god", before being allowed to participate in 12-Step meetings! The chapter, "We Agnostics", is nothing more then a patronizing, degradation towards those who do not have the "belief necessary" in this "Power Greater Then Ourselves" concept. I guess that atheists and agnostics that attend 12-Step meetings (AA, SA, etc.) just get up and leave when the PRAYING part is on (at the beginning and end of EACH MEETING!)?
I never implied that therapists "take a cut" of AA's voluntary revenue collections in order to refer clients to it. I am saying that they do so out of the IGNORANCE of: a.) there are OTHER, SECULAR self-help groups to refer to, IN ADDITION TO, 12-Step ones, and b.) if a therapist is IN a 12-Step group, and then referring clients to one, that THAT IS A CLEAR CONFLICT OF PROFESSIONAL INTEREST (who would WANT to see a 12-Step attending therapist for a disorder anyway, if the therapist hasn't gotten clean of his/her OWN DAMNED PROBLEM?). Besides, there is ZERO PROOF that 12-Step programs are somehow "more effective" then a non-12-Step program, nor any treatment at all, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to measure the "effectiveness" of a group, that doesn't keep any damned records of who attends it, for how long, and how the attendees can "prove" their attendance resulted in their "recovery", vs. doing an alternative activity.
As far as what "SA" would consider "healthy" sexuality, if it's not calling for "sexual abstinance", then it is automatically a "moderation" program. And the "healthiness" of that "moderation" is determined by: the attendees of an SA group? A sponsor? A "big book"? Not getting arrested for a sexual related offense? I mean, what kind of "healthy standard" can a 12-Step based SA group place on what a person has to VOLUNTARILY engage in, with the VOLUNTARY movement of limbs, in order to attain the sexual activity desired? It sure as hell isn't being "powerless", and it is definetly NOT a "disease"!
[QUOTE=Civ2000]I've got to disagree with you once again Redneck. The original founders of AA wrote that they believed their higher power to be God, yes with a capital G, but explain in great detail that this higher power can be anything the addict chooses. There is a chapter for the agnostic/athiest. I know numerous atheists who love the program and get a lot out of it. In the present day program there isn't much talk about God or reveling in the glory days of the addiction, but rather talk about concrete ways of stopping the addiction.
And it's not at all about giving up sex. It's about developing a healthy sexuality. I don't know a single person who's goal it is to give up sex. But if a guy has been arrested 3 times for picking up hookers and faces a year with his next conviction, yet still finds himself having extreme difficulty staying off the stroll, this is they type of sexual behavior this guy for example only would be trying to limit. Every other type of sex would be fair game.
There is no unethical conflict about a therapist recommending 12 steps. The therapist doesn't profit from an AA group. They don't take a collection to give a cut to the therapist that recommends their client attend. The "dollar" singlular you put in the basket merely pays for rent. About the only conflict of interest could be the fact that someone who attends 12 step meetings has a proven much greater chance of beating any addiction, including smoking, so that therapists success rate in treating clients will go up.
You're clearly someone who quickly looked at the steps or a website and made a conclusion without actually going or looking very deep. 12 steps have helped millions get out of all kinds of addictions that they had previously been unable to do so. Some people hate the idea of God so much, that as soon as they see that word, the other 99% of the message goes right out the window.[/QUOTE]
As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.
So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.
I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.
For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.
I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.
But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.
That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.
I would LOVE to see the "research studies" SUPPORTING this "idea" that those who "adopt/believe in" some "HP" are somehow able to "better recover from an addiction" then those who do NOT have one! I have been working with alcoholics and drug addicts for 8 years now, and can count on one hand (3-to be exact!), the number of atheists/agnostic/lack-of-"spiritual" believing, alcoholics or drug addicts I have come across! Again, if "spirituality" had ANYTHING to do with an addictive disorder, a person that ALREADY HAS THAT "spirituality" should NEVER BECOME addicted to anything, as the "spirituality" would be mentally and pleasureably satisfying ENOUGH to keep an addiction to a liquid, solid, or even a multitude of orgasms, out of their lives!
Somehow "prayer" to a "HP", or "spirituality" acknowledgement, just doesn't seem to rise to the level of PLEASURE a person with an addiction desires/demands. This is probably why 12-Step programs DO NOT WORK! Praying vs. an orgasm? I'll take the orgasm! Praying vs. intoxication? I'll take the intoxication! Sexual "addiction" vs. life of "sexual sobriety" as defined by some 12-Step group?? Hell, I will take the "label", and then demand they prove it has legitimate, quantitative, and documented, SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA!
[QUOTE=Book Guy]As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.
So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.
I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.
For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.
I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.
But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.
That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.[/QUOTE]
You're very unenlightened. There are lot's of studies that show 12-step groups greatly increase an addicts chance of recovery. Also you're quite wrong that a group defines sexual sobriety. In all groups except one, the addict defines their own sexual sobriety. Since most of your statements are false and misleading, I'll assume you just don't know what you're talking about.
Although not a 12-step program, Salvation Army is another spiritual program that deals with low-bottom, worst of the worst street alcoholics, and has a fairly high success rate also. There are hundreds of thousands of addicts that have recovered using spiritual/religious programs and the 12-steps. To say anything but is complete BS and you know it.
Praying vs. cruising around all night risking arrest, disease, getting my car seized to pay some crack ho 40 bucks for a 5-minute bj? Yeah, I'd gladly take prayer anyday. Most addicts would.
And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.
Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.
Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.
Therapists - Ditto.
Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.
And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.
As for "unenlightenment"-NAME THE STUDIES! Let's see the CITATIONS! PROVE THEIR EXISTENCE (and that of your fairy-tale "god" for that matter!).
Let's see the criteria that any OBJECTIVE SOURCE used to prove that a "12-Step program" (which again, keeps NO RECORDS, AND NO NAMES!) is better then a non-12-Step program, or doing nothing! The idea that someone that CHOOSES to engage in a VOLUNTARY BEHAVIOR and call themselves "powerless" over an "addiction" is the worse abdication of individual responsibility, and in all likelihood shows the person should not be even breathing air! Whether the "addiction" is to nicotine, alcohol, sex, or the internet, let's see one objectively-researched example of where it is scientifically PROVEN! Just because a bunch of people, whether MD's, or Ph.D's say something "works", and it's been around for a long time-DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT DOES! (Is the Catholic Church proof that IT "works" because it's been around for 2,000 years, and has the most number of people in it-within Christianity?). The burden of proof is ON YOU! Let's see it.
[QUOTE=Civ2000]And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.
Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.
Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.
Therapists - Ditto.
Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.
And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.[/QUOTE]
Redneck, you've made an obvious logical fallacy.
I said: 12-steppers say, "You're more likely to recover if you have faith in a higher power."
You responded: If that's true, then only agnostics would be addicts.
How idiotic can you be? How about Catholics who fail to recover? I didn't say that faith in a higher power was the ONLY thing necessary for recovery, nor did I say that recovery was guaranteed if you had faith in a higher power, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated any form of addiction, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated failure to recover. Further, I didn't even say that *I* believed in a higher power, or in its necessity for recovery; I said that OTHER PEOPLE report that idea. You're really too simple-minded to follow this discussion, if you genuinely believe that your response is germane to my points.
I find it hard to believe that you have EVER worked with addicts of any sort in North America or in the English-speaking world, if you claim that you've never seen reports about the faith-based success of things like AA and other 12-step programs. That's an old-hat true-ism, this idea that 12-step programs succeed when participants give up part of their decision-making capabilities to what they term "a higher power." It's a simple fact. "I've never seen studies" implies you aren't looking.
But I do agree with you, that the studies may be false. The connection between recovery and faith may be a false one, or a merely anecdotal one; or it may have something to do with having a supportive community, or having a straight-laced lifestyle with a censorious observing community, or it may just be a random statistical correlation without any causation to connect the two ideas, or it may even be that there's not even a statistical correlation.
But ya gotta admit, nearly everybody out there (just generalizing here) TALKS about AA and other 12-step programs as though a "main portion" of recovery includes faith in a higher power. It's standardly accepted as part of it all. This is nothing novel.
I don't advocate for or against faith, its connection to or disconnection from recovery, or for or against 12-step programs. I've experienced none of the above. I'm just trying to make the issues here clear. All I'm saying is, PEOPLE (generally) TEND TO THINK (in a general sort of way) that an effective 12-step program requires faith in a higher power, among a lot of other things, for recovery to be successful.
Redneck, I never mentioned a belief in God. Just because I believe a support group like AA helps lot's of people, for me the group is the higher power. Obviously you have serious issues with the idea of God and the mere mention makes you shut down the obvious that is all around you. Being closed-minded is not a recovery tool either.
I admit I don't like the word "powerlessness" when it comes to addiction either. But most don't understand that concept either. When I was fighting the bottle, I tried everything I could do on my own to quit and I could not. The addiction was bigger than I. So I would say I was powerless over the addiction. But I wasn't powerless over my recovery. It took treatment, meetings, counseling, calling people when I was tempted, etc., to give it up. Not just one thing, many.
My suggestion to you is the common tool of "investigate before making conclusions." Obviously you haven't been to a meeting because of all the false assumptions you make, like the group defining your sobriety. Go to a few and report back to us. I think you will find a group of guys, particularly in a group like AA that goes back a long ways, a lot of people with long-term and quality sobriety that had no luck before attending meetings. And then you can stand up and tell them that it's not working. If you do work with alcoholics and addicts you have a duty to check out ALL available resources. That is if you are any good at what you do.
Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?
The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.
(?)
Exactly! "Maturing out" of a behavior has probably more to do with quitting an "addiction" then all the "mental masturbation" of every self-help group (12-Step, or non-12-Step!) COMBINED! Ask a smoker for example! Any person who has permenantly smoking will tell you that it was an act of "spontaneity", with no "support group", sponsors, meetings, or steps involved. The will of an individual to STOP an activity will end it just as the will to NOT STOP an activity will keep it going. It is always a choice, pure and simple!
[QUOTE=Baltimonger]Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?
The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.
(?)[/QUOTE]
Ok I was an alcoholic, and a hobbyist, now just a hobbyist, at least I don't get into as much trouble as I used to, but I get a lot more pussy and know what I did, its kinda like fishing you got to bait your hook and troll, at mid 50's you just think about it much more and want it much more like a permanent bucket list. I found a lady on one of the swing sites that her husband allows her to fuck me it gets them all revved up, it works for everbody she says. We are human, and have hormones. Drinking has caused me a ton more problems thans sex has. I do think about sex a lot but its comes more natural now than it did years ago.
Good luck guys
I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.
All women want it. In fact, just from impressionistic investigation, subjectively, I'd have to say that women want sex and "need" and crave it, for their wellbeing, much more than men. And I think they get it more often, too. They're just better liars and manipulators with it, than we are.
[QUOTE=Tomkat4848]I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely it's natural for a man to want to get laid everyday. Is it natural for a man to go cruising for prostitutes ten minutes after he gets out of jail for patronizing a prostitute? Is it natural for a guy to pay for sex everyday, even though all his credit cards are maxed out and they are foreclosing on his home?
See you guys all make the mistake that wanting sex all the time equates to sexual addiction. It doesn't. Addiction is the continuation of a behavior despite wanting to stop and despite negative consequences. Just like drinking everyday, even drinking until one is quite drunk does not make one an alcoholic. The inability to control one's drinking and the inability to stop drinking despite the fact it's costing you employment and relationships etc., is what makes one an alcoholic.
[QUOTE=Book Guy]All women want it. ...[/QUOTE]I know one who definitely does NOT want it.
-------------------------------------------------
Fuck all women - the prime directive.
Well, I have a story to tell. The wife got into my gmail account due to a stupid move on my part and she found evidence of me with a couple of girls. To say the least the shit hit the fan. I am working on fixing this, mostly through admitting sexual addiction and going to counseling.
I am sure that I am an Eliot Spitzer type... doing it mostly for the thrill, not the sex. Anyway, I think I can salvage the relationship in the long term, but only because the stupid woman really loves me, though I no longer understand why.
So... keep your shit secure or pay the consequences.
When exactly does this MYTH of "loss of control" occur? Regardless of the behavior (drinking, sex, illicit drug addiction), how exactly DOES an "involuntariness" of acquiring the DESIRED ACTIVITY OCCUR if you HAVE TO ENGAGE IN VOLUNTARY PROCESS TO DO THE ACTIVITY? I mean, you CANNOT drink, get laid, or take addicting drugs unless hands. feet, arms and legs are involved, and THOSE require VOLUNTARY MOVEMENT, AND ENGAGEMENT on the part of the user! Just because you have the DESIRE to do an activity, and you may "not know why" you have the "obsessive-compulsive desire, where the hell is it written that an ACT must follow the THOUGHT! "Addiction" is a CHOICE! Period! It's time so-called "addicts" took responsibility for their own damned actions, and realized that yes, they ARE, ACTIVE, VOLUNTARY PARTICIPANTS in the behavior that results in the problems and consequences!
[QUOTE=Civ2000]Absolutely it's natural for a man to want to get laid everyday. Is it natural for a man to go cruising for prostitutes ten minutes after he gets out of jail for patronizing a prostitute? Is it natural for a guy to pay for sex everyday, even though all his credit cards are maxed out and they are foreclosing on his home?
See you guys all make the mistake that wanting sex all the time equates to sexual addiction. It doesn't. Addiction is the continuation of a behavior despite wanting to stop and despite negative consequences. Just like drinking everyday, even drinking until one is quite drunk does not make one an alcoholic. The inability to control one's drinking and the inability to stop drinking despite the fact it's costing you employment and relationships etc., is what makes one an alcoholic.[/QUOTE]
First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)
Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ
[QUOTE=A John]First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)
Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ[/QUOTE]
Can we get a discount on the floor model? I'll take it as is!
[QUOTE=A John]Anybody want to buy a boat[/QUOTE]No. But I sure as hell have an urge to go fishing.
[QUOTE=A John]First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)
Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ[/QUOTE]I didn't see any boat. What boat?