Streetwalker Reports

[QUOTE=Remain Silent]Mybudfang wrote: [i]You required to have I. D. On your person 24/7. If le cannot identify you, they may, at thier discretion, detain long enough to determine your true I. D. Even if it means jail.[/i]

Nonsense. There is no "stop & identify" law in OR (or WA) like they have in some states like Nevada. Read the 6th bullet under "Your Rights" here:

[url]http://www.aclu-or.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Res_rights[/url]

I've tested this myself when cops in Portland and Vancouver have approached me outside of a vehicle and asked my name or requested to see my ID. However, it takes nerves of steel to assert this right and essentially ignore them and walk away because cops hate it when you take such a defensive stance with them right from the start because they're trained to begin interrogations with softball stuff like your name, to condition you into into cooperating with them. The problem I've found is that once you begin [i]any[/i] dialogue with them and start acquiescing to their requests, it's hard to stop. The next thing you know, they're patting you down for "weapons", searching your bag or car, etc.

It's also important to know that if you're indoors, you never have to open your door for the police if they knock--or engage in any dialogue with them through the door (this applies to motel rooms as well as your residence). And like being questioned on the street, I strongly believe that any cooperation with them at your door inevitably leads to more questions, searches, and harassment. If they threaten to break down the door, say nothing and stand clear--usually they don't have authority to do that and are only bluffing (or else they wouldn't be [i]asking[/i] you to open the door, right?)[/QUOTE]I agree with everything that web site says,but you have not read your own research.in the second paragragh,in the second section,it says that le may detain you untill they establish id.please know what you are talking about,and please read your reseach before you try try to back up your statements.

Thank you very much

I was all excited to look on 82 for a few minutes. However a body laying in the street was not that fun to see. Not sure what happened. Looked overweight and not really well dressed but was in the turn lane in the middle near stark. No ambulance was comming. 3 squad cars were there. Then a fire truck. I will check out the news later on.

No girls around anywhere. Oh well. Wrong place at the wrong time.

ANyone else got news on the report?

Also there is no way you have to give ID to a cop. yes it takes balls of steel to do so. Just walk away. I have a friend who told them she was snow white. Worked just fine. She has Big balls. We talk about search and siesure all the time. Also evidencuary rules of evidence and admissibility. Probable cause is a favorite also. Sorry for the misspelling. Not on my normal computer. Just remember . When talking to the cops or entering the court house. HAVE A LAWYER. Do not get rail roaded by the wheels of justice

[QUOTE=Amp Guide]

ANyone else got news on the report?

Also there is no way you have to give ID to a cop. yes it takes balls of steel to do so. Just walk away. I have a friend who told them she was snow white. Worked just fine. She has Big balls. We talk about search and siesure all the time. Also evidencuary rules of evidence and admissibility. Probable cause is a favorite also. Sorry for the misspelling. Not on my normal computer. Just remember . When talking to the cops or entering the court house. HAVE A LAWYER. Do not get rail roaded by the wheels of justice[/QUOTE]

Have some business in the area next week. So thought Id check out if any action. Think last time I cruised Portland was June. LE sting so not much out and despite the sting picked up an o.k skinny short brown haired SW of about 24 years old.

The whole key to the give ID to a cop balls of steel game. The second they ask you to stop, make it known you will not answer any questions without an attorney present. Second before walking away, you should ask if your being detained. Third if they keep you detained re-insert you want an attorney and do not consent to any searches. If they say they'll just get a warrant then say well get one---never consent to a search. Even a car stop!

They need probable cause to stop you on the street. The cops off course know their BS. So they can and will abuse your rights, no matter what you do. Hence why when people go to court they learn that police twist things to justify screwing you. Including twisting answers to any statements you make. The most important is silence. Even with your own attorney, you must be careful in explaining what happened. So the right to remain silent and not to commit self incrimination also applies to your own lawyer!

In court the advantage of having a lawyer. They are more familiar what the common light fast and easy plea deal for these cases are. Sometimes you get a judge who for whatever reason doesn't want to play ball with the deal. Or might want to scare you more cause they hate it when people "play" lawyer. Keep in mind most misdemeanor's are not violent and make you no risk to society. Its not worth the costs to put you in jail and also giving jail time gives you better grounds to fight a case. No jail these days helps weaken "defense" for fighting laws. No jail less beyond a reasonable doubt needed to stick you with a fine! Add in deferred prosecution (john school, probation plus small fine) and even future expunging of your record. Being arrested is really a waste of tax payer money!

I still basically stand by what I said in post 720: That there are no "Stop & Identify" or "Must Carry ID" laws in OR--so if a cop approaches you and asks your name or to see your ID without accusing you of anything, you are perfectly legal to ignore him and walk away. If he orders you to stop, ask him why you're being detained. Even if he gives a reason, it is still not a crime to refuse to ID yourself. The key point is to take a defensive, nocooperative stance from the very outset of the encounter, and make it clear to the police that you are not going to let them establish any rapport with you. That will likely incense most cops, so you must be mentally prepared for that and maintain a cool, unflappable demeanor (even if you see steam coming out of their ears). It's true that if you are under arrest there is no point in trying to conceal your identity, but my experience is that there is no value in volunteering it otherwise.

I started playing this street john game in the mid '80s, and had a great run with minimal police harassment until the early part of this decade--when I started to suspect that my name had been entered in some vice database, and passed around to all the urban-area police agencies in the Northwest and BC. I finally decided that I was a more elusive target without a car, and have been using TriMet to get around since 2007. I've since been pondering how to get back in the game as a walking john, and have sort of decided that my best bet is to get a place in the Montavilla neighborhood within several blocks of 82nd because that seems to be the highest concentration of street activity in the Portland area. Then I'll make contact with the SW's at or on my way to bus stops or local stores, give them my cell phone number, and set up dates at my residence (where we'll be out of view of the cops and anti-prostitution neighbors, and where I'm in control of the situation so I know there won't be some boyfriend/pimp jumping out of the closet). If anyone else here is in the same car-less predicament as me, let us know your ideas. I remember the guy who did the [i]Streets of Portland[/i] photo gallery several years ago ("Dr. Katz") seemed to meet most of his dates in the NW stroll while riding his bicycle (I assume he lived nearby, and took them to his place). However, most rents in that area are too expensive for me, and living in Montavilla makes more sense at this time.

I thin k what I am trying to say, is that if le wants to talk to you, I would think they have to have a reason.

You are a witness, suspect in a crime. They will ask for id. At that timeyou are a person of interest. I have never been asked about the weather by a cop, never been asked to go have a drink, or any other social aspect. It is always buisness. So if you think you bgot balls of steel, go ahead and say no thank you, I will do what is best for me, has never failed me yet. My bs is pretty damn good.

[QUOTE=MyBudfang]I thin k what I am trying to say, is that if le wants to talk to you, I would think they have to have a reason.
[/QUOTE]

The "problem" is the LEO is trained to have that reason. The key however is making them believe you know the "system". They are less likely to screw around with someone who has a clue about their game. Cops are in the case building business and do get the end justifies the means attitude!

[QUOTE=Remain Silent]
I started playing this street john game in the mid '80s, and had a great run with minimal police harassment until the early part of this decade--when I started to suspect that my name had been entered in some vice database, and passed around to all the urban-area police agencies in the Northwest and BC..[/QUOTE]

I'm sure such a database does exist. Canada and the U.S do have treaties that give access to each other's criminal databases. I know that Northwest LE does work with Canadian agencies in other ways as well. For instance, cousin attended a week long course on auto theft in Kent Washington, her and 20 of her fellow RCMP members. Northwest agencies have sent K9 crews for training in BC. They do a lot of joint operations as well. You'll often here police asking dispatch to run a stopped vehicle both ways (CPIC and NCIC databases). In the 1990's the Vancouver Police had a program called: D.I.S.C (Deter, Identify, Sex-Trade Consumers). One of the ways you could have information entered into the D.I.S.C database was being observed cruising the tracks for street walkers. VPD started sending dear john letters, some other Canadian cities are still using this program. In the 1990's Van had some unsolved known prostitute murders, they shared information with the green river task force. You might be right!

I use Priceline and book reasonable rates room near or on the track/stroll whatever the lingo. I've had good results walking if not far from the hotel. I'll use Fresno, CA as an example. CA had a impound your car law, I was not willing to risk company vehicle! Days Inn on Blackstone. Walk to seven eleven about one city block away. Usually a girl walking on the way either direction. Even without price line usually hotels like Days Inn or equal, Motel 6 are no more than $60 per night. Little pricey, but worth the ability to watch the scene from your rooms doorway. See if LE active, etcetera. Many times a girl had a room in the same hotel and would pass by as I was watching smoking outside. Had an awesome young BSW off 99 in Fresno when I stayed in a hotel off that highway. She had a room just down from mine. Best $40 half and half deal I've ever had. On foot, slow for customers, etcetera, leads to good deals.

Oh, should point out. Walking, cycling, can be a good way to pick up. Keeps company leased car out of the mix for me. Plus my personnel car(s) appear expensive and are European. That alone gets, ganbanger, other lowlifes, and even SW's thinking rob. It also gets police attention, add in often out of my home state, foreign plates. I'm asking to be pulled over, even while driving like a saint!

If I owned a house, Id look at the monger rules on this sites home page. Do you want an often drug addicted prostitute and her pimp knowing were you live? Me, thats a big NO I do not!

As mentioned I've had hotels on or near strolls. Even if I live in an area, I'll prearrange a room. Once I've "dated", I leave that location. 9 times out 10, if I stay, I'll be contacted by the girl wanting to come back. Most times they will leave their purse or something else. Could be for a place to stay, could be for a rob, I don't care. If I wanted to see a girl after sex, Id get a wife or girlfriend. Not worth the drama to get more personnel other than sex with these girls.

[url]http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/hot-zoning/Content?oid=1122636[/url]

I sympathize to some extent with the concerns of people in the neighborhoods around 82nd (johns who toss condoms and do car dates in front of houses are not helping our cause). But on the other hand, I believe that most of these anti-prostitution activists are basically moral crusaders who would not tolerate the sex trade anywhere within Portland. There are probably a hundred-plus relatively desolate non-residential blocks in this city where legal strolls or brothels could be set up (such as the spot they found near the airport for the officially-tolerated Dignity Village homeless camp)--and most of the problems these Montavilla residents are moaning about could be eliminated or mitigated in a legal or quasi-legal prostitution zone. A couple of friendly uniformed peace officers could be assigned to continuously monitor such a place 24/7, thereby eliminating the expense for dozens of cloak-and-dagger plainclothes vice cops prowling 82nd, Sandy, NW, etc in unmarked cars. A legal stroll would also greatly reduce or eliminate the need for pimps because SWs would operate openly and no longer need their so-called "protection". But as this Web site makes clear (I tried to link directly to it, but Jackson has apparently banned the host name), the anti-prostitution crusaders are not interested in finding a logical solution that would actualy benefit the women in the sex trade--their answer is always more repression, more laws, more snarling cops. In their perfect world, all vestiges of public sexuality would be wiped from the city--including strip clubs and porn shops.

[QUOTE=Remain Silent][url]http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/hot-zoning/Content?oid=1122636[/url]

I sympathize to some extent with the concerns of people in the neighborhoods around 82nd (johns who toss condoms and do car dates in front of houses are not helping our cause). But on the other hand, I believe that most of these anti-prostitution activists are basically moral crusaders who would not tolerate the sex trade anywhere within Portland. There are probably a hundred-plus relatively desolate non-residential blocks in this city where legal strolls or brothels could be set up (such as the spot they found near the airport for the officially-tolerated Dignity Village homeless camp)--and most of the problems these Montavilla residents are moaning about could be eliminated or mitigated in a legal or quasi-legal prostitution zone. A couple of friendly uniformed peace officers could be assigned to continuously monitor such a place 24/7, thereby eliminating the expense for dozens of cloak-and-dagger plainclothes vice cops prowling 82nd, Sandy, NW, etc in unmarked cars. A legal stroll would also greatly reduce or eliminate the need for pimps because SWs would operate openly and no longer need their so-called "protection". But as this Web site makes clear (I tried to link directly to it, but Jackson has apparently banned the host name), the anti-prostitution crusaders are not interested in finding a logical solution that would actualy benefit the women in the sex trade--their answer is always more repression, more laws, more snarling cops. In their perfect world, all vestiges of public sexuality would be wiped from the city--including strip clubs and porn shops.[/QUOTE]
By making in legal and confining it to an area LEO could take half the vice detectives and assign them to patrol the area and the other half could fight real crime.

took a quick cruise out and saw only one possible bsw on freemont . was ok looking but not what i wanted. Cruised to woodstock. saw nothing. Made the return trip to 84 and it was empty as a desert. Went home and saved the money. Not sure where they all went but it was not out there.

Stay safe and have fun.

took a quick cruise out. one girl on glisan area of 82. Looked like a LSW not too bad but not great. Did not have the time to persue as well as not the car I normally have. Not much out there. I will continue to persue the side streets some.

Anyone else have a good weekend and get lucky.

Hello everyone,

First I am a native Oregonian but currently live overseas. I lurk here as a way to calm my homesickness. I am active on the International sex guide using the same user name.

OK, I have a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice from UofO, go Ducks! I was a reserve police officer for Portland. I am now business man with a MBA, being a cop didn't pay well and as a kid I didn't understand that when I went to college. So let me lay somethings straight!

Your rights:

1. You do not have to carry ID in the sate of Oregon, unless you are foreign. IE green card.

2. You do not have to Identify yourself to LE at anytime.

3. You have a right to an Attorney ONLY if you have been arrested, NOT detained. You are considered detained if the Police are holding you to either determine who you are OR any role you may have had in a crime, victim, witness or suspect.

4. You have the right not to allow a search of yourself, your property, minors in your charge or property in your protection. BUT refusal is enough for probable cause in the state of Oregon! But this depends on how you refuse, do not just say no. Say the following "I do not consent to a search of myself or possessions, I am NOT carrying anything Illegal, harmful or dangerous Including weapons. ".

5. You do not have to speak or answer questions. You do NOT have the right to remain silent unless you have been arrested. That means if you do not speak with LE they can accuse you latter on of not cooperating during your trial or any civil suite you have for unlawful detainment or arrest.

LE rights:

1. LE may detain you until your Identity has been confirmed. That includes taking you to the police station and running your prints. At no time are you under arrest, you are just detained.

2. If police ask you questions you do not have to answer, you can have YOUR lawyer present, but you do NOT qualify for a court appointed one. LE can and will continue questioning even if you ask for a Lawyer.

3. LE may search you OR an area you have easy access to, too determine if you pose a threat to them. Checking for weapons is the most obvious excuse, but the may search your vehicle to look for other passengers. Anything found in 'plain' sight is seizable. I won't get in to S&S laws.

4. LE can and will detain or arrest a uncooperative person if the suspect was or will be involved in an act of crime and charge you with obstruction of justice, and or resisting arrest. Again I will not get into the laws.

My Advice:

Give them your name, not your ID. This is a LE trick to stop people from walking away! If you have either committed a crime or have the Intent to commit a crime do not answer anything! If you have done nothing, then cooperate! It will go faster, remember they are people as well, they can be manipulated just like they try with you. So put on your smile.

Slylock

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S SUGGESTION[/u]:[/b] [blue]This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it in the [u]Police Tactics and Legal Issues [/u] thread in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

just saw a hot looking girl. Brown coat. bare legs. CFM boots. was watching traffic. I was going to stop and pick her up made my stop at meeting. got out of there 3 minutes later and she was gone. Rats. Will have to look more. Nice figure and legs. Could have been a GOOD friday

We should tell more CL girls to post here. Its free.

Was hoping to see the earlier girl again and get a quickie. Oh well. cruiised down sandy nothing to be seen. made the return up 82. Only one old regular. She has been out for years. Do not know the name but oh well. nothing else but LE and tow trucks. Not much going on for a super nice warmish day out.

Anyone else seen any thing. Posting is kinda slow here.

Got a call from a regular asking for money. She is in Florida. I said. how would i send money with out getting anything in return. She repied. I want to come back to Portland. Cool. I said See me when you get here. She is a hottie alright.

Have a great day ken

Weather was still nice out. Took a drive along 82 at 8 30 am. Saturday. Nothing. Not even a girl out at all. Oh well. could have used a pop and go before work. Maybe after I get off work I might check out the scene again

Anyone else having any luck.