Non Pro's

[QUOTE=ProJohn1;6535625]I am a newbie in the SD game. Can anybody give me some basic pointers on what I should include in my first message and also does my profile really matter? I would rather get straight to the point and not do endless messaging with some time waster which from casual reading seems to be a common thing. How do I know the girl is serious? Do I just simply straight up ask her what her PPM is in the first message?[/QUOTE]I don't know what you're reading but you've got it almost all wrong. You're not looking for a SD experience, you're looking for a PPM arrangement with a non-pro. That's nothing like sugaring, other than the non-pro part. If you don't understand how to talk to a woman beyond asking a price, I'd stick to the pros. You have to be able to think on your feet, it's not like putting your money on the nightstand. There are pros / semi-pros on SA. They're fairly obvious.

A majority of the posts on here are bad experiences because most guys aren't going to talk openly about their successes. Why would we want more competition? LOL.

Then see where it goes. LOL.

[URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/ad3d8efe-7407-4088-837d-3d8608b66984[/URL]

[QUOTE=Darkhosis;6536049]I don't know what you're reading but you've got it almost all wrong. You're not looking for a SD experience, you're looking for a PPM arrangement with a non-pro. That's nothing like sugaring, other than the non-pro part. If you don't understand how to talk to a woman beyond asking a price, I'd stick to the pros. You have to be able to think on your feet, it's not like putting your money on the nightstand. There are pros / semi-pros on SA. They're fairly obvious.

A majority of the posts on here are bad experiences because most guys aren't going to talk openly about their successes. Why would we want more competition? LOL.[/QUOTE]Yes. I want a non pro. I see what you mean now. I was kind of under the impression it was more or less the standard that they would all have a PPM. So there are total non pros on there still? That's good news. It's hard to tell from the ads right. I hear the horror stories about all the bots and shit. Sometimes it seems to good to be true some of these beautiful woman who are "going to college" etc.

[QUOTE=ProJohn1;6536358]Yes. I want a non pro. I see what you mean now. I was kind of under the impression it was more or less the standard that they would all have a PPM. So there are total non pros on there still? That's good news. It's hard to tell from the ads right. I hear the horror stories about all the bots and shit. Sometimes it seems to good to be true some of these beautiful woman who are "going to college" etc.[/QUOTE]I got all my best advice from Darkhosis ;) . And I'm not the one seeking advice, btw.

Sugar is time-consuming. And it's partly a numbers game. So many of the girls are just flakes, and terrible communicators, so you kind of have to cast a wide net. Which can backfire. You'll need to be organized and keep track of their details. They hate when you're ignoring something they already told you. Most of them are mentally unsound. Actually, I think we all are.

Sometimes, you get lucky and within hours, you're on a date with intimacy. Usually an exception. The best quality relationships I've developed took weeks to get to a first date. But if you haven't set up a burner phone number account, you should. There's plenty of risk involved, so protecting your identity can be important. Blackmail is a *****.

Also, the site will permanently ban you if you get caught discussing any kind of intimacy with the notion of compensation. The moment you see the "PPM" or similar language on the site's messaging, you need to move that conversation offsite. They don't just ban your account from both Seeking and WYP, but your IP address, and MAC (machine) address, I think. It happened to a friend. I had to create an account for him, he paid me for the subscription, and has to use VPN to access it. I took the risk, but it worked.

Other advice: Don't make an offer purely on texting. They'll probably refuse you if they want a certain amount that's above your threshold. Your goal should be to meet them first, establish chemistry and connection, then negotiate. It helps if you get them a couple of drinks first. At least that's what works well for me. I've negotiated plenty of intimate first dates without meeting first, but I've found much better success having a lunch or drinks then graduating the tension to intimacy. DM if you like. Happy to dispel terrible advice.

[QUOTE=KnoxNenters;6536498]Most of them are mentally unsound.[/QUOTE]No shit. I've got an ex SB (from about ten years ago) who at random intervals blows up my phone and email with fairly extravagant threats unless I pay her insanely huge sums of money. I just tell her to go ahead and do whatever she wants to do and block the numbers and email. As far as I can tell she is now homeless and whenever she gets or steals a phone she starts shaking people down.

A few months ago she was on a tear. I gave some of the emails to the local cops. Their reaction, and I quote, was, "what a whackjob!" Of course they didn't do anything.

My own opinion is that the very best deals and the least flaky ones are all over 30, and right now for me the sweetest spot is 33-37. I've got a good one right now in that age range who is keeping me busy.

I will rarely even engage with any of them under 26 anymore. Too much GPS, too much drama, too little performance. And most of them are hilariously inexperienced which can be kind of adorable but isn't exactly what I'm looking for, especially at the prices they seem to expect.

[QUOTE=MarkoRamius;6536560]My own opinion is that the very best deals and the least flaky ones are all over 30, and right now for me the sweetest spot is 33-37. I've got a good one right now in that age range who is keeping me busy.

I will rarely even engage with any of them under 26 anymore. Too much GPS, too much drama, too little performance. And most of them are hilariously inexperienced which can be kind of adorable but isn't exactly what I'm looking for, especially at the prices they seem to expect.[/QUOTE]I have found lots of success with the 30+ crowd too (I'm late 40's). I don't think they get nearly the attention on there as the 18-25 crowd. Hot single moms, gym rats, tired of dating losers, know how to fuck and they are in great shape for their age.

[QUOTE=ProJohn1;6535625]I am a newbie in the SD game. Can anybody give me some basic pointers on what I should include in my first message and also does my profile really matter? I would rather get straight to the point and not do endless messaging with some time waster which from casual reading seems to be a common thing. How do I know the girl is serious? [b][color=red]Do I just simply straight up ask her what her PPM is in the first message?[/color][/b][/QUOTE]DUDE! [u]NEVER and I mean [b]NEVER[/b] talk about PPM, allowance or any kind of money talk on the SA site![/u] Period! You do that and you violate the TOS, the BOTs that scan every message will catch you and you will get banned! Talk general stuff and get her to agree to communicate offsite where you can discuss PPM or allowance. Most of the time the best advice is save that discussion for a Meet & Greet (M&G) for several reasons.

First scammers, rip-off artists and Pro's aren't going to waste time with M&Gs. Never agree to pay for a M&G as this is in essence a 'job interview. ' Asking for funds for a M&G is a sure sign of a rinser.

Second, despite what I have seen others post, this isn't totally socially acceptable nor on the right side of things. As such, do you wish to leave a written record of your PPM negotiations with a girl? Don't talk PPM or sex for money through text, etc.

Finally, the best "education" one can get comes from what is / was the defacto (first & only) SB board / thread in Richmond VA. A kind dude or two scraped that thread and created a new one with all of the best advice on "how to" sugar date. More info than one can absorb in one sitting but a PhD level of knowledge there. Just like any skill, you get out of Sugaring what you put into it, time wise.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ[/URL]

But seriously, if you are looking for the real LT, intimate Sugar Dating experience, one needs to distinguish them self from the numbnuts and Neanderthals who send dick picks, treat girls like prostitutes or think these girls are just an upgrade to escorts. In other words if your focus is purely "PPM and move on to the next", then one should be playing in the escort area. Then again, more guys who treat girls badly, just makes it easier for those of us who play the game right.

I will be meeting up with my first sugar baby soon. I will give a review on my first time experience with a semi-pro to non pro. I'm not exactly sure which she is. We have been talking for a few days and I definitely am not getting pro vibes since she hasn't barely even mentioned money. Time will tell.

Holy fuck. So I finally met this girl I meet on seeking and she definitely didn't smell like drugs or anything and she was an absolute bombshell Asian. She got in my car and we talked for a little bit and then drove back to my house. We were just chillin on the couch and I got up to take a piss came back and got back on the sofa. She was on the floor on her phone. I was just laying there and she starts putting her shoes on and says "I got to go. My brother is here". Apparently her brother comes to where I live. In the same neighborhood from what she told me as we were driving in. She literally RUNS. I mean literally starts running when she gets outside! I hadn't even touched her or anything. I'm literally sitting in here in disbelief at what just happened and was quite frightened! I immediately locked the door when she got out of the door because I was afraid this guy was coming here for her!?

The craziest part about all of this is she didn't even once ask me for money! She told me she wouldn't take anything less then 400 online and I said that's fair. In person she didn't bring up money not one time. I would have gladly paid her. I am having trouble understanding what in the world is going on. I'm a bit frightened for her mental health right now.

So the sugar baby that literally just ran out of my home like I was going to assault her or something definitely had mental issues and there were warnings signs. One of them was she told me she was "very antisocial" in one of our first messages. I should have just stopped the convo there. She was so good looking though and short that I was like well I will look past that. When I showed up to the park and ride parking lot where we were meeting and she was driving around at 5 am with her headlights off, made me really question this ladies mental facilities. I asked her "did you drive all the way over here with your head lights off" and she responded that she did. Who knows what she suffers from but good lord. What makes me laugh is that she didn't even ask about money during our meet up or anything. I was fresh shaven, freshly showered clean and presentable! It's hard not to take this personally even though I know she's batshit crazy. I guess my 4 k pottery barn leather sofa she was sitting on wasn't up to her standards. Sorry for the carpets I would have vacuumed but my vaccum broke!

Do you mind posting a link so we know who to avoid? Thank you.

[QUOTE=ProJohn1;6538523]So the sugar baby that literally just ran out of my home like I was going to assault her or something definitely had mental issues and there were warnings signs. One of them was she told me she was "very antisocial" in one of our first messages. I should have just stopped the convo there. She was so good looking though and short that I was like well I will look past that. When I showed up to the park and ride parking lot where we were meeting and she was driving around at 5 am with her headlights off, made me really question this ladies mental facilities. I asked her "did you drive all the way over here with your head lights off" and she responded that she did. Who knows what she suffers from but good lord. What makes me laugh is that she didn't even ask about money during our meet up or anything. I was fresh shaven, freshly showered clean and presentable! It's hard not to take this personally even though I know she's batshit crazy. I guess my 4 k pottery barn leather sofa she was sitting on wasn't up to her standards. Sorry for the carpets I would have vacuumed but my vaccum broke![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Shampoo55;6537370]DUDE! [u]NEVER and I mean [b]NEVER[/b] talk about PPM, allowance or any kind of money talk on the SA site![/u] Second, despite what I have seen others post, this isn't totally socially acceptable nor on the right side of things. As such, do you wish to leave a written record of your PPM negotiations with a girl? Don't talk PPM or sex for money through text, etc.
[/QUOTE]Yeah talking numbers on SA is definitely a no-no.

About you second point, you can not mention both, PPM and sexual items [u]together[/u].

I try not to discuss PPM at all on text, not necessarily because I am afraid of the paper trail, the kind of girls I like usually don't do it.

That being said my last two additions to my SB rotation that are both sizzling hot and crazy in bed both brought PPM conversation on text, I measured the risk and the context and I decided to keep talking, boy that was a great decision.

We discussed much later sex acts as one wanted test results, but more on the lines of what you like and such, not like what does it include ;)

I usually bring the what to expect by telling all the nasty stuff I want to do to them, (always start describing how I would eat their pussy) if they reply like I cant wait, I know I am golden, some actually stop the convo, which is good as I rather figure we are incompatible before hand, I never explicitly mention BB for example but my description would only make sense if we are fucking bare

Sugaring is a lot more case by case situation than the hobby.

[QUOTE=ProJohn1;6538523]So the sugar baby that literally just ran out of my home like I was going to assault her or something definitely had mental issues and there were warnings signs. One of them was she told me she was "very antisocial" in one of our first messages. I should have just stopped the convo there. She was so good looking though and short that I was like well I will look past that. When I showed up to the park and ride parking lot where we were meeting and she was driving around at 5 am with her headlights off, made me really question this ladies mental facilities. I asked her "did you drive all the way over here with your head lights off" and she responded that she did. Who knows what she suffers from but good lord. What makes me laugh is that she didn't even ask about money during our meet up or anything. I was fresh shaven, freshly showered clean and presentable! It's hard not to take this personally even though I know she's batshit crazy. I guess my 4 k pottery barn leather sofa she was sitting on wasn't up to her standards. Sorry for the carpets I would have vacuumed but my vaccum broke![/QUOTE]

Uh, a first meet at 5 AM at a park and ride ls weird. Men are much more comfortable with being transactional, most women aren't. You should have met for dinner / coffee / drinks first and shown yourself as a normal person. Understand the psychology of a young woman being in a high stress situation. She probably had crazy levels of anxiety about going to a complete stranger's house to be naked and vulnerable, for money. They convince themselves it's easy money, but it's not so simple. When the moment comes, and it becomes more than just texting, instinct can take over.

[QUOTE=Darkhosis;6538892]Uh, a first meet at 5 AM at a park and ride ls weird. Men are much more comfortable with being transactional, most women aren't. You should have met for dinner / coffee / drinks first and shown yourself as a normal person. Understand the psychology of a young woman being in a high stress situation. She probably had crazy levels of anxiety about going to a complete stranger's house to be naked and vulnerable, for money. They convince themselves it's easy money, but it's not so simple. When the moment comes, and it becomes more than just texting, instinct can take over.[/QUOTE]I have to agree here. Hell, if you wanted meet ME at a Park & Ride at 5 AM and then go to your place, I'd assume you're going to kill me. I've been trying to avoid the SB and hooker thing as I'm trying to actually date normal people. But damn, THIS is definitely not the way to go about it. There are lot of nice non-chain restaurants where you can get a great dinner and drinks for less than $100 each. One hour of food, drink and casual conversation and she may have been completely open to it. And may have even been open to a lower rate for going home with you.

Last year, someone didn't understand how I would meet women on SA or WYP and they'd casually get in my car and go wherever I took them. I never found it to be strange, but in most cases, we had talked or met and they felt comfortable with me. This woman jumped in a car with a total stranger at 5 AM and went back to his house, so yes, having a date and picking someone up in your car is not that difficult or out of the ordinary.