"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Jayb20;2183979]Hey brothers, longtime lurker, first time poster on this specific thread. (I usually partake in BP, Indys, etc.). But I realized I like the thrill of the hunt and something a little more recurrent so I saw this thread and had been reading it. I have a couple of questions for why'all. Started an SDToday account since it was free and had a couple of hits which left me wondering. 1) This was a 35 yo who emailed back and forth and went out for dinner. There was no mention of money initially but she did say she understood what the site was about. She came back, told me about her ex who was abusive, had a couple of pops. My question: as she was leaving I gave her $. 0 (and previoiusly bought dinner and a pack of smokes). She started crying and said how much she really appreciated it. I don't think she even really expected it and would definitely call me once she got her cell. She's never got a hold of me, I've emailed her, and an email to her account is unread. Any thoughts on what happened? 2) I've got another hit that I'm supposed to meet tomorrow. She says she's been out a bunch and has been flown out to CA and Florida (from NY) and had guys visit her from Italy and Turkey before. We've never discussed stipend and is totally cool for meeting directly at a hotel if I'm up for it. I almost feel like I'm walking into a bad situation. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance and I'll continue to post (I'm in the PA / NY area but am starting to move south towards the DC / NOVA area so I'll try to contribute when I can. J.[/QUOTE]Welcome to the Bowl Jay. Re: your issues;.

1) I assume you gave her $ without a trip to the FC? This is a newbie mistake. NEVER give money ahead of performance. We all get suckered in somehow at one time or another, but try not to violate that standard. It's like playing the slots. Occasionally you will get a hit but most of the time you are throwing money down the rabbit hole. She cried because she couldn't believe what a sucker she had landed. Money for nothing? Whaaaaaat? She might have had a change of heart playing this game, her abusive SO might have caught her going through her email, she wasn't into you. Who knows? Write her off and forget about it.

2) This girl sounds like a Professional SB. She might be an escort. Get a price up front and how much time she is willing to spend with you before wasting your time and money. .

Any guys shop that market? If so PM me please.

Fred,

"To put pants on the problem": 1) I gave it to her after the deed, twice (have been a monger for a while). Have written her off, but just wanted to see if you guys had undergone something like that. 2) She quoted $300 per visit--she's chubby and sounds like a pro -- not into that. I'll take a line from FeelGoodMD and email her a similar repsonse.

Thanks guys,

J.

Keep safe / and remember now there's a cure for Hep see.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2184171]Welcome to the Bowl Jay. Re: your issues;.

1) I assume you gave her $ without a trip to the FC? This is a newbie mistake. NEVER give money ahead of performance. We all get suckered in somehow at one time or another, but try not to violate that standard. It's like playing the slots. Occasionally you will get a hit but most of the time you are throwing money down the rabbit hole. She cried because she couldn't believe what a sucker she had landed. Money for nothing? Whaaaaaat? She might have had a change of heart playing this game, her abusive SO might have caught her going through her email, she wasn't into you. Who knows? Write her off and forget about it.

2) This girl sounds like a Professional SB. She might be an escort. Get a price up front and how much time she is willing to spend with you before wasting your time and money. .[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jayb20;2184354]Fred,

"To put pants on the problem": 1) I gave it to her after the deed, twice (have been a monger for a while). Have written her off, but just wanted to see if you guys had undergone something like that. [/QUOTE]I've had a couple of girls recently that I saw once, thought everything went well, including the sex, who then faded away. One was a stripper, they are notoriously flakey anyway, and I think she decided after the fact that she agreed to too low an allowance. She texted a little for a while, then kind of faded away (and too bad, the sex was awesome, I would have given her a raise if she wanted to continue and was reliable). The second went on and on about how much fun she had with me, told me she was off of SA (and she hasn't logged in since) but was too busy to see me for the next week or so then also went radio silent. She lived kind of far from me and has a real job, I assume either it was just too logistically difficult or she decided she wasn't into the SB thing after all. It's funny, some are too clingy and some vanish, hard to explain the minds of these beautiful creatures called women.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2184419]I've had a couple of girls recently that I saw once, thought everything went well, including the sex, who then faded away. One was a stripper, they are notoriously flakey anyway, and I think she decided after the fact that she agreed to too low an allowance. She texted a little for a while, then kind of faded away (and too bad, the sex was awesome, I would have given her a raise if she wanted to continue and was reliable). The second went on and on about how much fun she had with me, told me she was off of SA (and she hasn't logged in since) but was too busy to see me for the next week or so then also went radio silent. She lived kind of far from me and has a real job, I assume either it was just too logistically difficult or she decided she wasn't into the SB thing after all. It's funny, some are too clingy and some vanish, hard to explain the minds of these beautiful creatures called women.[/QUOTE]I have had a few one night stands that I wish turned into repeaters. But like you say the girls just went mia for no apparent reason. Or the opposite. No chemistry on my part yet they txt endlessly trying to get a second date.

My ménage did not happen today. My babe flaked, said she had to go to the hospital and see her grandmother, and "oh by the way can I send her $40 so her phone won't get shut off". Yeah right. The game ain't over yet though.

Probably everyone in the age group that would be an SD now remembers some of Robin William's iconic roles. Recently in reviewing some of his life's work, I somehow feel guilty for not having a greater appreciation for him while he was here (I guess that's common with any art form). In one way it's an important reminder that we can make the mistake of forgetting our own successes and remembering to reflect on them when things aren't going optimally for ourselves.

But, today we hear from his wife that he had early stage Parkinson's. Adds more understandability to the circumstances. But, supposedly she also had not been sleeping in the same bedroom with him for some time. I will apologize in advance if the news I'm quoting is inaccurate, I'm far from one who wants to spread rumors, but apparently this is on the police report as the rationale as to why she didn't find his body before his personal assistant did.

I see pictures of her and she looks about six inches taller and significantly younger than him. She didn't change her name to reflect her marriage, to indicate she was in it for the long haul.

Was she just a gold digger? I don't want to slap a mourning wife around, but to me this smells of rotten tuna. I feel bad for his kids and those who genuinely loved him, but to me the definition of a wife is someone who stands by their husband even in hard times, and that seems almost non-existent these days, especially for a celebrity of his stature. Is this just another young Cali girl who wanted a celebrity husband just so she could beat down his confidence enough to de-convince him of his contribution to society and set herself up for a nice inheritance and long-term cougar partyism?

I know the politically correct thing to do is to give her the benefit of the doubt that she actually contributed something to the marriage, but this is far from a politically correct forum which is why I'm asking you guys if you think she's just another UTR girl.

My own opinion is that years of coke abuse and alcoholism can do a lot of damage to the body and mind, and heart surgery + parkinsons is a tough load to handle. But when you live in a 30 million dollar goddamn mansion, it says something about your accomplishments in life and at that point you need to hold your head high and feel good about what you've accomplished at age 63, and don't expect to necessarily maintain it going forward, just reflect and move on as best you can -- and when you die it should not be in a bedroom that you've been forced to sleep in by yourself because your wife pulled a Dr Phil theory on you and guilted you into belting yourself to a doorknob.

My rant is over. Feel free to chastise me. This is just how I roll, and the philosophy with which I life my life.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2182365]Also you say you are exclusive. But you are not. She lives with her BF. Just semantics. When I refer to exclusive I mean there is no BF, SO, etc. It's me and only me. It's the only way to go safely uncovered. Not saying you are, but who knows where that BF has been. My new freaky SB tells me every girl she knows is either knocked up or has an STD by 18. She also tells me she wants to suck other dick. I told her covered only if she does. Can I trust her? So far I am as she hasn't done it yet.[/QUOTE]By exclusive, I meant only one SB. I had been running 2-3 SBs at a time.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2185151]Robin William's[/QUOTE]He went back into TV last year (and got cancelled in May) because of money "issues".

[URL]http://news.moviefone.com/2013/09/17/robin-williams-divorce-money-problems/[/URL]

Another thing he can't afford? One more divorce. When asked if he'd lost all his money to his exes, Williams admitted that his failed marriages have taken a sizable chunk out of his bank account. "Well, not all. Lost enough," he told the magazine. "Divorce is expensive. I used to joke they were going to call it 'all the money,' but they changed it to 'alimony. ' It's ripping your heart out through your wallet. Are things good with my exes? Yes. But do I need that lifestyle? No. ".

[QUOTE=ConejoJoe;2185721]He went back into TV last year (and got cancelled in May) because of money "issues".

[URL]http://news.moviefone.com/2013/09/17/robin-williams-divorce-money-problems/[/URL]

Another thing he can't afford? One more divorce. When asked if he'd lost all his money to his exes, Williams admitted that his failed marriages have taken a sizable chunk out of his bank account. "Well, not all. Lost enough," he told the magazine. "Divorce is expensive. I used to joke they were going to call it 'all the money,' but they changed it to 'alimony. ' It's ripping your heart out through your wallet. Are things good with my exes? Yes. But do I need that lifestyle? No. ".[/QUOTE]Sad thing is, he seemed like the type who was really down to earth and didn't really need much money. He just liked going cycling, playing video games, drove a Toyota Prius. Everything else seems like he was busting his ass for pussy, like we all do. This is why I'm ranting about his wife, seems to me she wasn't playing the supportive role she signed up for by marrying him. I think when these broads don't hold up their end of the deal they should walk away with nothing.

Getting control of our cocks and not letting it control us is one of the best things we can do as SDs... or just males for that matter. Pussy prison is hell.

DAMN, you guys post a lot, 7021 posts. I've RTFF. Every damn post, beginning to end! And, I'm still conflicted about the "bowl" and despite reading TFF, beginning to end, can't decide what is the better approach.

So, you guys that have resolved all my conundra. A little specific advice will be appreciated. Post or PM, as you prefer.

A few specifics. I live in Alaska, several hours outside Anchorage. But we do have a community college. However, my preferences lean toward 30-somethings or 40-somethings rather than the 20's. I find the former more reliable and a bit less dramatic.

I've appreciated especially all the good advice from Revvo, HollywoodGuy, FScott, FredMoore, SubCmdr, & BigTigger (in no particular order of importance). Some of you are out of my league, while some of you seem to have characteristics similar to mine.

I'm married (with NO relationship with the "boss" - I know, why not divorce. But the "group therapy" on this forum addresses that. Good discussions, guys), and in a small town, that makes things a bit more dicey. I'm a sixth-decader with a labido that defies the years. Hence the time spent on research.

I've got four regular escorts, each of whom qualifies (equally, although for different reasons) as an ATF. They range in price from down-right unbelievably inexpensive (25 per) to barely affordable for me (per). On average, I'd say I spend about $$ per.

My escort experience is damn good (in regard to quality and GFE experience. What I seek), but it seems a SB would offer the likelihood / prospect of more monogamous (notice the qualifier, "more") relationship. Something I'd rather have. Also, if possible, I'd like to improve the cost / per situation. The tradeoffs seem to be: escort-relatively effortless; SB-a good deal of work.

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

2. I know there are two specific sites that seem to command the attention of bowl-participants. SA and SD4 M. Question TWO: I've not signed up on these as I'm unwilling to put up a credit-card number and will have to get a hobby-prepaid-card if it is worth the effort. I've tried to work the CL approach, and damn that is hard work for very little reward. So, the specifics on how to work the dedicated-SB cites are a little light, and unless it's more efficient than working (or trying to work) CL, I'm not sure it's worth my effort to go get a pre-paid card and try the commercial sites. Anyone got any specifics to pass along?

3. Final question: anyone have suggestions / experience to report on the small town opportunities? My town is 3000-6000 population (depending whether you count only my town or the adjacent one 10 miles away), and 2-3 hours from the major population center - 350,000 population.

All input will be received appreciatively and evaluated carefully.

RiverGriz.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2185806]Sad thing is, he seemed like the type who was really down to earth and didn't really need much money. He just liked going cycling, playing video games, drove a Toyota Prius. Everything else seems like he was busting his ass for pussy, like we all do. This is why I'm ranting about his wife, seems to me she wasn't playing the supportive role she signed up for by marrying him. I think when these broads don't hold up their end of the deal they should walk away with nothing.

Getting control of our cocks and not letting it control us is one of the best things we can do as SDs... or just males for that matter. Pussy prison is hell.[/QUOTE]In the mid to late 80's I used to run a few miles around a track in Los Angeles. Always in the evening like clockwork. Robin, who was jogging on a regular basis, and I (and I don't mean to imply a friendship that did not exist) would chat for a few minutes at a relaxed pace and then I would proceed with my workout. Every time I would pass him on the track he would crack some joke about me. But it was done in the most playful way. He was trying to make me laugh and lose my pace. Anyway, I was immersed in the Movie business back then and I can say that, in my experience, he was the most down to earth crazy friendly genius I ever met. Again, we were not friends, just two acquaintances sharing a High School track. However, when I read that he had passed it brought tears to my eyes just because he was such an amazingly good guy. Sorry to be off topic, just wanted to share.

[QUOTE=RiverGriz;2185873]

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

RiverGriz.[/QUOTE]Cost with SB's will likely be higher and it is more work but the experience is better: for me the girls are fresher and better looking. They have mostly had blah sex with guys their own age and light up like crazy when given a really skilled outing. Finally, escorts have time limits. SB's will generally give as much time as you need and will go places and do things (like dinner and drinks) that escorts charge to do. It is a value equation that favors SB's - - for me. YMMV.

As for what sites to join, I had the following thoughts: I believe that both SA and SD4 Me allow you to join for free. Yu can do this using an anonymous gmail account. There are limits on what you can do for free. For example, you cannot communicate with SB's. What it will let you do is browse and search for POT's near you. You would only pay for the sites if there are women there to contact. If less than a few dozen, I wouldn't do it. This game is played using large numbers. Finally, if you have a small college near you, I would lower my age target to allow some of the women there to play. Seniors need dress clothes for when they go job hunting. And it' fun to play mentor.

RB.

[QUOTE=RiverGriz;2185873]DAMN, you guys post a lot, 7021 posts. I've RTFF. Every damn post, beginning to end! And, I'm still conflicted about the "bowl" and despite reading TFF, beginning to end, can't decide what is the better approach.

So, you guys that have resolved all my conundra. A little specific advice will be appreciated. Post or PM, as you prefer.

A few specifics. I live in Alaska, several hours outside Anchorage. But we do have a community college. However, my preferences lean toward 30-somethings or 40-somethings rather than the 20's. I find the former more reliable and a bit less dramatic.

I've appreciated especially all the good advice from Revvo, HollywoodGuy, FScott, FredMoore, SubCmdr, & BigTigger (in no particular order of importance). Some of you are out of my league, while some of you seem to have characteristics similar to mine.

I'm married (with NO relationship with the "boss" - I know, why not divorce. But the "group therapy" on this forum addresses that. Good discussions, guys), and in a small town, that makes things a bit more dicey. I'm a sixth-decader with a labido that defies the years. Hence the time spent on research.

I've got four regular escorts, each of whom qualifies (equally, although for different reasons) as an ATF. They range in price from down-right unbelievably inexpensive (25 per) to barely affordable for me (per). On average, I'd say I spend about $$ per.

My escort experience is damn good (in regard to quality and GFE experience. What I seek), but it seems a SB would offer the likelihood / prospect of more monogamous (notice the qualifier, "more") relationship. Something I'd rather have. Also, if possible, I'd like to improve the cost / per situation. The tradeoffs seem to be: escort-relatively effortless; SB-a good deal of work.

1. COST. HERE'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. From reading the forum, I can't determine whether the cost is less, about the same or more. I note that several of you have done the escort and the SB thing. What say you about relative cost? Seems to me, many of you get SBs at $per and that would improve the cost. If the norm is $$ per, then seems to me I break even and then it all comes down to effort and availability. Higher than $$per, then I think my cost is less with escorts.

2. I know there are two specific sites that seem to command the attention of bowl-participants. SA and SD4 M. Question TWO: I've not signed up on these as I'm unwilling to put up a credit-card number and will have to get a hobby-prepaid-card if it is worth the effort. I've tried to work the CL approach, and damn that is hard work for very little reward. So, the specifics on how to work the dedicated-SB cites are a little light, and unless it's more efficient than working (or trying to work) CL, I'm not sure it's worth my effort to go get a pre-paid card and try the commercial sites. Anyone got any specifics to pass along?

3. Final question: anyone have suggestions / experience to report on the small town opportunities? My town is 3000-6000 population (depending whether you count only my town or the adjacent one 10 miles away), and 2-3 hours from the major population center - 350,000 population.

All input will be received appreciatively and evaluated carefully.

RiverGriz.[/QUOTE]1. The game of true SD / SB is a little bit "upscale" both in terms of cost expectation and quality of women from the general escort scene. The waters are muddied quite a bit by the fact the SB scene is flooded with UTR girls and sometimes escorts, so just distinguishing between them is going to be the challenge. In theory the dollar cost PER HOUR of *companionship* (not necessarily sex) would be lower with SB if you want a hot girl on your arm, because a true SB will spend time with you without watching the clock. The girls I meet usually can't be talked out of staying all night before they even have a clue how much I will gift them. I sometimes wish they would leave after the second round of fucking so I can get a good night's sleep but it's not always that easy. If I put any sort of dollar amount on my own time, SB dating would be catastrophically expensive. Someone else wrote about that in depth here. It requires A LOT of time to do it well, and if you figure that time is something that could be spent elsewhere EARNING money, it's a phenomenally expensive hobby. There are benefits to be had in the bowl that you typically don't get from escorts, but they come with the price of your time (and if married a much higher level of risk). The whole game is a risk-reward scenario. With escorts you don't worry about paternity suits, blackmail attempts, hiding your identity, etc. But sex with a low volume girl (SB, or even UTR girl in some cases) is almost going to better than someone who has turned her pussy into an assembly line process. I think I've said this before, but I think coming into the bowl with the purpose of cost savings is a really bad move. We should be SDs because we've invested the time to fully understand the difference between being an SD and an escort client, not because we want to save a buck. With all things considered, I'm going to say escorts are far more economical in the long run.

2. The SD sites can be just as hard work as CL depending on what you're looking for, but in general they will put you in touch with girls faster. The efficiency of the process to me makes the credit card payment worthwhile, but it also comes with tradeoffs such as you will have a certain number of girls that decide whether they will even respond to you based on what you write in your profile, and it creates an online identity that is somewhat recognizable (I. E. Girls on these sites work with their friends who are also SBs to trade information about SDs, including your profile name). When you operate strictly on CL you have a higher level of anonymity, can change your introduction verbiage easily and morph with each ad you post, and do not have an online profile. Almost everyone is familiar with CL, so you stand the chance to meet someone there who has not really made a mental commitment to something like signing up for an SD site. How the actual goods are on each type of site will depend greatly on your geographic area, you might get vastly different results in your area than what you read about on this thread.

3. I would think in a smaller town you've got a more limited playing field and also less opportunity for anonymity. Your post already indicates you're aware of the bigger problem here -- the smaller the world the harder it is to stay covert. I've written about this before, but if I were married and there was alimony or asset division on the table, there is no way in hell you would catch me with an SB in a small town. Even 350,000 seems like a small world to play in as a married guy, but since it's 2-3 hours away it might be plenty safe so I'd say that market is your best bet for SBs. Escorts would be a far safer bet in a small town, they just want their hourly rate and there is no expectation for a "relationship" (some SB's idea of a relationship includes financial AND emotional support, but all the true SBs have some sort of "relationship" in mind).

So basically based on what you've told me I'd stick with escorts close to home, and if you want to dabble in the bowl go for the more populated area 2-3 hrs away.

Ok, with family out of town, I was pretty desperate to set up a quality date with a quality SB. POT 1 was always target #1 as she is very attractive and by far the most normal chic I have talked with. After a couple of scheduling snafus that left me down in the dumps we eventually met and had about a 5 hour date. In our texts, we seem to converse pretty easily and freely, but in person, while we got along, I wouldn't say we totally clicked. But I think both of us were a little nervous and unsure of each other so by no means am I discouraged. I really think our next date will be better in terms of chemistry. What I do like about her is we can really talk about anything, she seems really easy going.

But I just want to encourage guys that may be struggling to try to stick with it. I started my SB quest in April, had one SB who did not really make the grade in terms of looks or the type of time I wanted to spend together (although the sex was pretty good). So for the last month and half I have been working pretty hard and it did eventually pay off. And it sort of boosts my confidence going forward that a really hot chic doesn't mind hanging out with me.

And I will add this. WYP was a waste for me. I hated agreeing to a "date" only to find out that the girl either lived further away then she stated, or really wasn't serious about setting something or wouldn't even agree to chat outside of the website. I almost suspect one of the girls was a WYP employee just trying to keep guys interested and logged into the sight. Maybe just bad luck for me, but I won't be putting any more money on that site.